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MrJack20252
11-11-2019, 01:46 PM
He is really interesting, but he is really too weak and really predictable. His side dodges are pretty useless because of his low damage and because you can't delay them. His zone attack needs to be faster, it is an easy parry for good players (i'm on PC and i really can't use it). This character is probably an offensive Character but he needs to be played turtle at high ranks.
The superior block is also useless, it can be blocked, and his first heavy maybe could have an Hyper armor so it could be more viable because you can trade with it.

Feats
His feats are really good, i love the synergies but his 3rd feat could be really useless, it is really situational, i suggest to remove the bow and add vital leech so players could choose what they prefer.

Pls don't let Zhanhu be another F Tier character, he looks really good, one of the best looking characters. With some buffs he could be easy fixed.

Ubi-RealDude
11-11-2019, 07:37 PM
I appreciate the feedback. Seen a lot of comments regarding speed and recovery among other things. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Blindjackel03
11-12-2019, 03:13 AM
His review of the character is pretty accurate

SangLong524
11-12-2019, 09:28 AM
I don't know whose bright idea it was to make side dodge heavy bounced off like a light, but it makes no sense.
I generally agree with OP, except the third feat. I think it works well with the rest as cooldown from the second and the last are fast enough, and almost every match there is someone using fire flask.
The bow should be firebow though.
Add hyperarmor or uninterruptible should be good. Right now the hero is super super glass canon.

MrJack20252
11-13-2019, 01:52 AM
I appreciate the feedback. Seen a lot of comments regarding speed and recovery among other things. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Thank you for reading my suggestions!

PonE-Sharp
11-14-2019, 05:09 AM
his first heavy maybe could have an Hyper armor so it could be more viable because you can trade with it.

Have we learned nothing from Hitokiri?

Siegfried-Z
11-14-2019, 09:50 AM
I don't know whose bright idea it was to make side dodge heavy bounced off like a light, but it makes no sense.
I generally agree with OP, except the third feat. I think it works well with the rest as cooldown from the second and the last are fast enough, and almost every match there is someone using fire flask.
The bow should be firebow though.
Add hyperarmor or uninterruptible should be good. Right now the hero is super super glass canon.

His side Dodge heavy bounce off like a light because it is 400ms. Its fair Imo.

Anyway yes Sunda needs buffs, i would suggest :
-Zone is 500ms
-left heavy finisher hitbox on par with the right one
-he needs more healing or defensive feats outside of his non unique 1st one
-light finisher is 566ms or maybe 533ms but dmg are 16
-his superior block indeed confirme the Dodge heavy and the bash if you choose it can wallsplat

It would be a first good step for him

Herbstlicht
11-14-2019, 02:57 PM
Hey Siegfried, why would you, without other adjustments on his damage numbers, change his light finisher to just 16 damage?

In my opinion, even with some attack speed buffs, he would remain low tier against players that read animations and not only indicators. Reason is that his 400ms lights feel way easier to parry then a lot of 500ms light attacks and are not the least comparable to some soft feints into 400ms lights. Of course, once you are in a lobby with mediocre connection quality, things change. But I regularly play with players at around 30ish ping and there Zhanhu became my favourite opponent already - he hardly can't do anything.

Now if I move into more detail for the finisher, you see orange and Than facing you, parry. You see orange and back, wait. Not saying I manage to beat this every time, but more often then not at least. Overall his risk vs reward ratio feels very off.

Of course, you said it would be a step in the right direction, but considering the bash meta with the strongest hero's having options and relative safe moves, Zhanhu would still be far removed from top especially due to him being susceptible to parry punishes on .. say everything and GB punishes on his finishers.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I don't want a hero with overwhelming power and no weaknesses. Actually, low A tier or high B Tier would be perfect for me personally because not too much people would play him but he would be able to manage well enough. Something I actually see him far removed from right now.

Siegfried-Z
11-15-2019, 02:35 PM
Hey Siegfried, why would you, without other adjustments on his damage numbers, change his light finisher to just 16 damage?

In my opinion, even with some attack speed buffs, he would remain low tier against players that read animations and not only indicators. Reason is that his 400ms lights feel way easier to parry then a lot of 500ms light attacks and are not the least comparable to some soft feints into 400ms lights. Of course, once you are in a lobby with mediocre connection quality, things change. But I regularly play with players at around 30ish ping and there Zhanhu became my favourite opponent already - he hardly can't do anything.

Now if I move into more detail for the finisher, you see orange and Than facing you, parry. You see orange and back, wait. Not saying I manage to beat this every time, but more often then not at least. Overall his risk vs reward ratio feels very off.

Of course, you said it would be a step in the right direction, but considering the bash meta with the strongest hero's having options and relative safe moves, Zhanhu would still be far removed from top especially due to him being susceptible to parry punishes on .. say everything and GB punishes on his finishers.

Anyway, don't get me wrong, I don't want a hero with overwhelming power and no weaknesses. Actually, low A tier or high B Tier would be perfect for me personally because not too much people would play him but he would be able to manage well enough. Something I actually see him far removed from right now.

Hey,

As you saw i have suggested many buffs.

If those would happen, including spending the UB light, the only needed drawback Imo is to slighly reduce this light.

2 dmg is not a big deal but 18dmg is already a high dmg light and it wouldnt be fair for a 533ms UB one Imo.

Riazer96
11-17-2019, 02:43 PM
I made a more complete post about zhanhu situation here: https://forums.ubisoft.com/showthread.php/2158763-ZhanHu-review-and-hit-registration-and-other-problems

Sweaty_Sock
11-17-2019, 03:06 PM
Character is actually very powerful, just need to

1) not do the finishers
2) remember all openers can cancel into dodge (including that fast top)

Herbstlicht
11-17-2019, 03:58 PM
Where is he powerful socks? Throw neutral heavy for a slow 30 damage? Dodge attacks for 14, light for 15, or 600ms 20 damage zone?
Your lights can get punished for up to 50 damage.
If people parry Dodge attacks on Dodge and guess they are likely to parry. Your only chance is baiting people in parry and getting a guard break or hope they attempted a guardbreak or parry when you utilize heavy Dodge attack - has low GB vulnerability.

So you can play him. But his low damage, low health pool and bad risk reward structure make him inferior in many matchups with only a few being more even.
Ah well, actually I would say only cent and monk are even. Monk due to low damage with the slight advantage of a neutral 400 ms light and cent with a slight advantage when he parry's you near a wall.

So yeah, I think the new guy is the worst hero in the roster at the moment when considering numbers and the likelihood of his risky playstyle to beat opponents at a similar level of skill. Might maybe different for grandmaster level, but I can only speak for me as a rather experienced console player who got a lot of heroes above rep 20. New guy is sitting at 13 and currently on standby. Even more pathetic than orochi.

Sweaty_Sock
11-17-2019, 04:21 PM
he can cancel any non-finish recover into a dodge


that means dodge attack (random either side) can turn into another dodge attack (random either side) over and over.

its and infinate 50/50

You can also not attack an gb, also remember the superior block on dodge as well... you dont have to do that dumb bash, take the hit out of it.

you can also dash forward for that fast hit (again cancel into dodge)

Herbstlicht
11-17-2019, 04:40 PM
Sweaty, I know this, and everyone you do this, you trade 50/50 for a light parry punish. That's the problem. And I, a console pleb, parry his front and side dodges on indicator up to 30ms lag and on guess up to 90ms with roughly 80% success. And I am not a top tier player. It's so easy because you know it's coming, just wait for the red flicker, react. It can't be fainted. So it's no 50/50.

And last: see the stamina drain on block and parry? It's a lot!

Granted, I spend hours in training to get a perfect feeling for all this. But ... Not that I don't like him. But he is definitely in a weak state in my opinion when I compare him to other hero's I do enjoy playing. Might if course be different for other players, but even when looking at the numbers, I see stuff that could be used as evidence almost.