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View Full Version : New Hero | Such a terrible decision



Okt0g00N
11-08-2019, 11:45 PM
First of all, i've played against so many of these guys, they all do the same thing.

My only problem with them is their dodging attacks.
And no, it's not that i don't want to learn - "oh just get used to it and learn loool, that easy", that's a stupid, im learning but the artificial delay and the both left and right 400ms attacks which let me tell you that are from ubi's point of view "viable offense" and god how wrong is that.
It's annoying, it's not reactable since you gotta choose one side and that delay makes it even harder.

Overall a terrible idea, far worser than raider before his nerf...

Change the speed to 500ms from 400ms and it wont be that frustrating, 500ms is still quick, but we are talking about multi direction 400ms on artifical delay dodges.
Or im just gonna quit along with my friends...

CandleInTheDark
11-09-2019, 01:10 AM
Or im just gonna quit along with my friends...

Bye then

Herbstlicht
11-09-2019, 02:08 AM
First of all, i've played against so many of these guys, they all do the same thing.

My only problem with them is their dodging attacks.
And no, it's not that i don't want to learn - "oh just get used to it and learn loool, that easy", that's a stupid, im learning but the artificial delay and the both left and right 400ms attacks which let me tell you that are from ubi's point of view "viable offense" and god how wrong is that.
It's annoying, it's not reactable since you gotta choose one side and that delay makes it even harder.

Overall a terrible idea, far worser than raider before his nerf...

Change the speed to 500ms from 400ms and it wont be that frustrating, 500ms is still quick, but we are talking about multi direction 400ms on artifical delay dodges.
Or im just gonna quit along with my friends...


In all seriousness. This character might need an emergency patch with some buffs, so weak he does seem to me. Go into training and learn to parry the bot. If you don't manage to do it on indicators, get a prediction timing. Once you got it, a 50% chance to parry is enough. Reason: what light punish is below 14 damage? Oh this comes from a console player btw.

Further, did you think about this hero in full? His numbers, combos, hitboxes, feats, viability? You said players are already doing the same over and over. Might that not imply there is something wrong when you have to rely on a 14 damage move that might others net a 50 damage punish or can just be hyperarmored through?

I honestly believe the thought behind making a Dodge attack an offensive tool is not bad. But it doesn't really work out. All other Dodge attacks, when used in a counter attacker manner, meaning when they are kinda guaranteed to land, are stronger. They might not be used as an offensive move, but move up in skill brackets and you will encounter players ok parrying those Dodge attacks in Dominion and breach. Thus, as an offensive skill that already is given away due to animation without hefty damage numbers behind it, the risk just isn't worth it.

Without those, what remains?

Ah yeah, classic, barebone play. Hope your opponent dodges because he is afraid of your ouny attack and punish. Actually, this does work at times but stays dangerous due to recovery after dodges. Still got me some nice gb's and parry's from some mindgames. But nothing what really makes this guy strong.

My opinion: far removed from S rank, still far removed from A rank, maybe low B, maybe even C. Weakest Hero this year.

Herbstlicht
11-09-2019, 02:21 AM
Yorm works solid vs stamina. In a duel situation both are ... Meh. But yorm seems to fill a role decently as stamina bully. He even can excel there.

Not saying he is ok! Design is way to simple, where is this tricky bash from neutral that might so much suit a hammer user?
Anyway, just going by numbers, viability, possible punishes, damage numbers, hyperarmor special moves etc - Zhanhu does really, by a serious margin even, seem to be this year's looser. I mean he might for some playnout way more fun then yormungandr due to his chainy moveset. But viability in high level play? Oh boy ...

Okt0g00N
11-09-2019, 10:33 AM
Hope u had fun! And no 500ms is not quick its slow af and everyone can counter it they are not viable even 400ms is easy to react just block if u cant parry. This new hero is trash in 1v1 We want viable offense he cant bash and has no HA his speed needs to be 400ms his light dodge cant even dodge anything

Im on pc and still have problems parrying 400ms, it's maybe because im just that slow or because im not trying to do any prediction.
And now we got this, 400ms multi direction and delayed dodge attacks, it will take a while for me to adapt but for now it's god damn frustrating
433 or 466ms could work tho. still fast

Okt0g00N
11-09-2019, 10:40 AM
In all seriousness. This character might need an emergency patch with some buffs, so weak he does seem to me. Go into training and learn to parry the bot. If you don't manage to do it on indicators, get a prediction timing. Once you got it, a 50% chance to parry is enough. Reason: what light punish is below 14 damage? Oh this comes from a console player btw.

Further, did you think about this hero in full? His numbers, combos, hitboxes, feats, viability? You said players are already doing the same over and over. Might that not imply there is something wrong when you have to rely on a 14 damage move that might others net a 50 damage punish or can just be hyperarmored through?

I honestly believe the thought behind making a Dodge attack an offensive tool is not bad. But it doesn't really work out. All other Dodge attacks, when used in a counter attacker manner, meaning when they are kinda guaranteed to land, are stronger. They might not be used as an offensive move, but move up in skill brackets and you will encounter players ok parrying those Dodge attacks in Dominion and breach. Thus, as an offensive skill that already is given away due to animation without hefty damage numbers behind it, the risk just isn't worth it.

Without those, what remains?

Ah yeah, classic, barebone play. Hope your opponent dodges because he is afraid of your ouny attack and punish. Actually, this does work at times but stays dangerous due to recovery after dodges. Still got me some nice gb's and parry's from some mindgames. But nothing what really makes this guy strong.

My opinion: far removed from S rank, still far removed from A rank, maybe low B, maybe even C. Weakest Hero this year.

I do agree, their kit isn't that powerful, but i may be lacking something, prediction parrying ? always messes me up due to the attack coming from 2 sides.
And now if i try to reaction parry then i should just uninstall right ?
A buff to him in some way could be nice but those delayed dodges could be 433 or 466 to feel slower and actually be reactable.

And now, don't laugh at me or joke about me being an absolute under bronze trash player, but i find myself not able to block those in some scenarios.
i've reached master and as i stated im having problems that new players have.

Oh and bots, they refuse to do the other move, they like only do light side dodge attack and not heavy to mix me up.
And since im practicing for the dodge attacks, it's easier to react since i know they will only do those and not others.
And then, i put the to their full potential and guess what, they rarely do those dodges, but when they do it's unreactable for me, due to me expecting other attacks.

Siegfried-Z
11-09-2019, 11:07 AM
First of all, i've played against so many of these guys, they all do the same thing.

My only problem with them is their dodging attacks.
And no, it's not that i don't want to learn - "oh just get used to it and learn loool, that easy", that's a stupid, im learning but the artificial delay and the both left and right 400ms attacks which let me tell you that are from ubi's point of view "viable offense" and god how wrong is that.
It's annoying, it's not reactable since you gotta choose one side and that delay makes it even harder.

Overall a terrible idea, far worser than raider before his nerf...

Change the speed to 500ms from 400ms and it wont be that frustrating, 500ms is still quick, but we are talking about multi direction 400ms on artifical delay dodges.
Or im just gonna quit along with my friends...

Seriously.. this new heroe is overall weak.

I play on console, you know this platform were we play with 30fps and big input delay.

Still i went to training more for 20minutes before pvp and look at his mix up and how i could deal with it and i was already fine to deal with Sunda.

If you dont fall far his UB heavy finisher (which then would be a problem you have with almost every heroe) his only threats are a parry bait 600ms light and a parry bait 600ms undodgeable zone.

You say you have troubles with his Dodge attcak. Its true they are not easy to deal with if you want to parry or deflect it.
And i mean its good you cant reaction punish it, what would be their purpose of you could ? They are already not very good at dodging due to poor Frames.

So, first thing you can do is to just focus on block. Its much easier and you will stop his chain.
2nd thing is to Dodge his Dodge attack, Sunda cant feint it so once you saw it coming you can yourself try to punish it with a Dodge attack.

Back dodging it also work but then be prépare to deal with his finishers mix up.

Overall if Sunda needs something it would be buffs to his zone, hitbox and also a set of feats allowing a better survivability.
Tbh he is at best average and among this kind of heroes Kensei or JJ does a far better job.

So sorry but yes, take the time to learn how to deal with him.

Okt0g00N
11-09-2019, 11:49 AM
Seriously.. this new heroe is overall weak.

I play on console, you know this platform were we play with 30fps and big input delay.

Still i went to training more for 20minutes before pvp and look at his mix up and how i could deal with it and i was already fine to deal with Sunda.

If you dont fall far his UB heavy finisher (which then would be a problem you have with almost every heroe) his only threats are a parry bait 600ms light and a parry bait 600ms undodgeable zone.

You say you have troubles with his Dodge attcak. Its true they are not easy to deal with if you want to parry or deflect it.
And i mean its good you cant reaction punish it, what would be their purpose of you could ? They are already not very good at dodging due to poor Frames.

So, first thing you can do is to just focus on block. Its much easier and you will stop his chain.
2nd thing is to Dodge his Dodge attack, Sunda cant feint it so once you saw it coming you can yourself try to punish it with a Dodge attack.

Back dodging it also work but then be prépare to deal with his finishers mix up.

Overall if Sunda needs something it would be buffs to his zone, hitbox and also a set of feats allowing a better survivability.
Tbh he is at best average and among this kind of heroes Kensei or JJ does a far better job.

So sorry but yes, take the time to learn how to deal with him.

Alright, thank you for your suggestions, will help alot :)

Vakris_One
11-09-2019, 12:48 PM
Im on pc and still have problems parrying 400ms, it's maybe because im just that slow or because im not trying to do any prediction.
And now we got this, 400ms multi direction and delayed dodge attacks, it will take a while for me to adapt but for now it's god damn frustrating
433 or 466ms could work tho. still fast
So basically you don't want to put in the effort to get better at the game and would rather the game be made easier for you by making an already bad hero even worse.

Nice.

Chavisprs2019
11-09-2019, 04:38 PM
Any new Character can be OP for the first few weeks until you figure them out. I agree the dodge attacks are pretty quick but they can be countered . If you play a character with a decent side dodge attack (Orochi, Shaman, Zerk, Kensei etc etc) just dodge attack in the same direction and you can punish him . I found the best way to counter the Unblockable Heavy / Light Mixup up is to just option Select on Orange if you have a quick zone. If you play a full block character then just full block on dodge. If you don't have a dodge or full block then put your guard left or right on dodge and when you see color on the opposite side block or parry. Hope this helps.

PlebsFuzzyCack
11-09-2019, 05:20 PM
My2cents

Players have this hero only on Early Access or have paid for it straight up. It hasnt even been 72hrs since release. Players are talking like someone has played the hero for years .....

Its a FEINT / DODGE based hero that has unblockable finishers . If your not good at feiting or playing against a player that has trouble with Bait/Feint, your not really seeing how good this hero is.

To all the comments about (this hero dodge is trash) ; This hero dosent have to dodge, it will feint almost 90% the time and play defensive as a Hybrid.

Long range and super fast for the DPS output.

For everyone that thinks they actually saw 1v1 ? You pitted your hero you played with for probably 2years against players that havnt even seen 72hrs playtime with, and you think you won.

Now thats trash.

More Wu Lin hate i suppose, i bought into the game because of the faction, im used to it by now but chose HULDA Main, laugh until your beaten more then you could open your mouths, then rage quit the que, wont matter. Haters gonna hate, but not because you see me rollin Ha. :)

keep_calm_GTFO
11-10-2019, 12:02 AM
Or im just gonna quit along with my friends...пожалуйся останься...:( please stay...:( tal vez te quedes...:( בבקשה תישאר...:(

dehlenfeld
11-10-2019, 01:57 AM
ok ok
the problem I have with this thread is that the players see the potential. stop ****ing with the devs man they are working with what they can but yes this game hopefully someday eventually will be a legit competitive game

- lvl 70 badplayer

dehlenfeld
11-10-2019, 02:03 AM
just to be clear im just an HVAC technician playing a game that can be fun depending on who you play

chaneke33
11-10-2019, 04:04 PM
Hope u had fun! And no 500ms is not quick its slow af and everyone can counter it they are not viable even 400ms is easy to react just block if u cant parry. This new hero is trash in 1v1 We want viable offense he cant bash and has no HA his speed needs to be 400ms his light dodge cant even dodge anything

So, for a new hero to be viable you need another BP or Hito that can abuse bashes and HP?