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Wild.Bill.Kelso
01-30-2006, 10:31 AM
Every aircraft I fly has always pulled to the left on takeoff. I assume this has something to do with torque of the engines? I always try to counter it with the rudder, but is there any other solution to this or do I have some other problem?

Wild.Bill.Kelso
01-30-2006, 10:31 AM
Every aircraft I fly has always pulled to the left on takeoff. I assume this has something to do with torque of the engines? I always try to counter it with the rudder, but is there any other solution to this or do I have some other problem?

XyZspineZyX
01-30-2006, 10:40 AM
All taildragging aircraft exhibit this tendency to pull to the left on a clockwise rotating engine(pilots eye view). It is due to the engine torque.

The only way to counter it is the effective use of rudder on take-off.

Lunix
01-30-2006, 10:41 AM
Yes this is the engine torque. Counter with lots of rudder and gradually release pressure as your airspeed increases and your vertical stabilizer becomes more effective. If the engine has lots of torque try gradually increasing your throttle.

Chuck_Older
01-30-2006, 10:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wild.Bill.Kelso:
Every aircraft I fly has always pulled to the left on takeoff. I assume this has something to do with torque of the engines? I always try to counter it with the rudder, but is there any other solution to this or do I have some other problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Welcome aboard, Bill

"My name is Wild Bill Kelso, and don't you...shoot. Turn this tub around, you're taking me to Tokyo" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

major_setback
01-30-2006, 10:58 AM
I posted a story by a Wildcat pilot a while ago. He stated that unless he had set rudder trim to nearly maximum it would run into problems - not run straight on take off:

The story:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200...ai_n8939912#continue (http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200102/ai_n8939912#continue)


This is from that link:

"The high torque of the Wildcat's 1200hp Pratt ix Whitney engine required that the pilot set the rudder trim tab to three marks nose right (almost full right tab) to help counteract its definite tendency to veer to the left off the runway during takeoff. If a pilot forgot his checklist and left the tab at neutral, he would have to apply an abnormal amount of right rudder with very high forces. I had seen quite a few Wildcats veer beyond the far left of the Grumman runway when their overworked delivery pilots forgot to properly preset the rudder trim tab. A later model Wildcat-the FM-2-had a much bigger fin and rudder, but only after many accidents and after 3,000 small-fin and -rudder Wildcats had been delivered. Even the FM-2 required two marks of nose-right tab for takeoff. "
By - Meyer, Corwin H.

He outlines other 'faults' with the Wildcat in the article in that link.

JG53Frankyboy
01-30-2006, 11:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wild.Bill.Kelso:
Every aircraft I fly has always pulled to the left on takeoff. ...........? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

fly a Yak http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wild.Bill.Kelso
01-30-2006, 12:02 PM
Well, I don't remember every plane's details, so usually when I run off the left side of the runway and crash I'm reminded to trim my rudder. I was just in the Beaufighter when I finally decided to post this question.

I think I flew a Yak when I first got IL2 a long time ago. Is that the one where you spin out and lose control when you throttle too high and turn? I'll have to try that one again.

That's right! "Turn this tub around!" I play SHIII too! But that's only German subs...

x6BL_Brando
01-30-2006, 12:10 PM
You may also want to be locking the tailwheel as you commence take-off. Rudder position or trim tab settings will make no difference to torque effect until the plane has reached a speed where the surfaces have authority - around about tail-up speed. At that point you can start using the rudder deflection to keep the plane straight up the track.

Wild.Bill.Kelso
01-30-2006, 12:44 PM
Thanks. I'll try locking the tail wheel. I already sometimes press the wheelbrakes (B).

Also, if I am in a multi-engine ac, and I throttle up the left engines to about 10%, then select 'All Engines'; will the left engines throttle stay about 10% above the right engines when I throttle them All up? Is this a good way to help with the torque? Also, after takeoff I should reset them to be equal again.

x6BL_Brando
01-30-2006, 01:16 PM
Well, I agree with Setback about the need to input rudder trim using the tab(s), but I personally find it easier to input using rudder deflection in a raw state - i.e. using pedals. I find that the 'steering' situation tends to change rapidly as I accelerate up the track, and I prefer to get the plane clean (flaps & gear up) before starting to get the trim correct using the tabs. An important factor is a smooth acceleration up to rotation speed, coupled with an equally smooth touch on the rudder and stick.

After a while it becomes second nature to juggle the rudder input/ throttle settings thing.

About the multi-engines I'm not sure. I know that the differential engine settings would screw me royally - and I could imagine crashing every time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Might be useful for taxiing but quite unmanageable for take-off is my guess.

Stigler_9_JG52
01-30-2006, 01:48 PM
Still, even with a locked tailwheel and any available rudder or aileron trim, you're not going to really get any torque to match the descriptions you just posted here. IL-2 ran screaming from realistic torque forces after version 4.0... usually, even for a torque-generating monster like the P-40 or Corsair, a judicious right rudder tap will straighten your plane out...no chance of having to 'stand on full rudder' or to groundloop, like the real planes might. Just rev up full RPMs and off y'go... which'd get you killed in the real things http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-30-2006, 02:31 PM
Try taking off with a spit in stormy weather - nightmare! At least with my rudder pedals.

VW-IceFire
01-30-2006, 03:25 PM
A little set of tricks...when you start your takeoff roll you need to do a few things.

1) Lock the tailwheel

2) Pull back on the stick to keep the tail on the ground longer and use rudder to counter torque as much as possible

3) Gradually push the stick forward when speeds approach 100kph IAS

4) Allow the plane to gently right itself on the main wheels

5) Pull back

Usually you have to let the speed build a bit and hold the rudder as much as possible while similtaenously keeping the tail on the ground as long as possible. This makes for a nice smooth takeoff.

Zatochi2005
01-30-2006, 04:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">That's right! "Turn this tub around!" I play SHIII too! But that's only German subs... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

God! I've got many many hours, days, months invested into that game.

ATLAS_DEATH
01-30-2006, 05:23 PM
I just throttle it up, counter with some rudder... then take off... what's with all this nancy-boy stuff http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Stigler_9_JG52
01-30-2006, 05:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ATLAS_DEATH:
I just throttle it up, counter with some rudder... then take off... what's with all this nancy-boy stuff? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, fact is, if torque is correctly modelled, on many planes, it isn't Nancy-boy stuff. It's deadly serious. Especially if you're taking off on a narrow strip that's got planes lined up on either side, ground personnel, or a boundary fence or treeline.

You just don't firewall the throttle and roar off. At least, not in real life.

major_setback
01-31-2006, 10:32 AM
I don't actually use trim for take off. If the plane pulls too much to the left I ease of the throttle for 1/2 sec until it comes back on line.

ddsflyer
01-31-2006, 10:58 AM
Brit and Russian A/C should pull to the right as their engines turned left handed compared to everyone else.

Eightball_Syn
01-31-2006, 06:44 PM
I thought it was more about p factor than torque

jarink
01-31-2006, 07:07 PM
Just fly P-38s. No torque thanks to the lovely counter-rotating props. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ddsflyer
02-01-2006, 12:12 AM
P-factor affects yaw during climb due to the relatively larger bite taken by the descending blade as opposed to the ascending one. Torque causes the whole airplane to swing during sudden application of power as the torque increases.

Browning50cal
02-01-2006, 12:25 AM
One thing that I found that helped me get my Zero in the air on many a stormy day is to actually use a bit of brakes if my rudder does not have enough authority. I run up to about 80% with the brakes locked. Then, I release to begin my takeoff roll. I tap brakes to keep pointing down the middle until I can force my tail off the deck. Then I gun it and try to get away from the ground as soon as possible. (The Zero is a kite, kind of like Seafire54's Spit, so don't try this with a heavy aircraft or you will run out of runway).

What twin engine plane pulls to the left?

Art-J
02-01-2006, 12:26 AM
When on the runway, isn't it more about spiral airstream behind the prop, hitting vertical stab from one side a little stronger? I thought this effect is more responsible for "pull to the left" than torque...

Cheers - Art