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Clooney_11FG
02-21-2005, 05:33 PM
A new game comes out and all you have to do is install and play, sweet. Oh wait, a new patch...download it and install, WOW, game works better!!! Oh whats this, after about 3 months of playing my game acts weird??? Solution: uninstall/reinstall. Poof, problem fixed. You know, that was then and this is now. Games nowadays are not like this and for what reason??? Does anyone know? Maybe the devs can ponder this idea for a bit. Why can we all not buy a game anymore without having some kind of issue, the number of problems these days are staggering and you almost have to be an Einstein to figure them out. For instance, do a merged install of PF, then for some reason you decide to uninstall/reinstall everything, wow, now the disks stop working with absolutely no dirt or scratches on them. You take the disks back and get a new game thinking the thing is faulty. Ok, lets try this again. To my horror i have the same problem, now is there something wrong with my computer, did i make a mistake or did i just buy another faulty game? Everything was working fine before i tried all of this.......(and this is where the big decisions hit)....do i try to figure out whats causing the problem, go get another exchange or give up all together??

This is the type of thing unfortunately that happens to those people who are not up to date on their computer skills, nor really want to be. Theses are your common everyday people who work hard for a living and simply want to get on their computer and take to the virtual world with a simple click of the mouse. Those days are long gone it seems.

I am merely just venting after a 5 hour long session of trying to help a friend via TS get his game set up to play online with our flight squad. He's not the brightest when it comes to computers but it shouldnt take a rocket scientist to get a game installed. The outcome is that he is taking the game back for a second time for a refund and giving up all together. This is a shame cuz he was the best CFS2 pilot we had in our group and now he cannot get into the IL2 community merely because his game would not install. I'm sure everyones thinking "what were the specs on his PC?" Simply put, he has brand new AMD Athlon 64 machine that works great.

I really hope devs can look more into what they are putting out to the public because now the "Average Joe" has unfortunately become the "Average Newb".

11FG_Clooney

Clooney_11FG
02-21-2005, 05:33 PM
A new game comes out and all you have to do is install and play, sweet. Oh wait, a new patch...download it and install, WOW, game works better!!! Oh whats this, after about 3 months of playing my game acts weird??? Solution: uninstall/reinstall. Poof, problem fixed. You know, that was then and this is now. Games nowadays are not like this and for what reason??? Does anyone know? Maybe the devs can ponder this idea for a bit. Why can we all not buy a game anymore without having some kind of issue, the number of problems these days are staggering and you almost have to be an Einstein to figure them out. For instance, do a merged install of PF, then for some reason you decide to uninstall/reinstall everything, wow, now the disks stop working with absolutely no dirt or scratches on them. You take the disks back and get a new game thinking the thing is faulty. Ok, lets try this again. To my horror i have the same problem, now is there something wrong with my computer, did i make a mistake or did i just buy another faulty game? Everything was working fine before i tried all of this.......(and this is where the big decisions hit)....do i try to figure out whats causing the problem, go get another exchange or give up all together??

This is the type of thing unfortunately that happens to those people who are not up to date on their computer skills, nor really want to be. Theses are your common everyday people who work hard for a living and simply want to get on their computer and take to the virtual world with a simple click of the mouse. Those days are long gone it seems.

I am merely just venting after a 5 hour long session of trying to help a friend via TS get his game set up to play online with our flight squad. He's not the brightest when it comes to computers but it shouldnt take a rocket scientist to get a game installed. The outcome is that he is taking the game back for a second time for a refund and giving up all together. This is a shame cuz he was the best CFS2 pilot we had in our group and now he cannot get into the IL2 community merely because his game would not install. I'm sure everyones thinking "what were the specs on his PC?" Simply put, he has brand new AMD Athlon 64 machine that works great.

I really hope devs can look more into what they are putting out to the public because now the "Average Joe" has unfortunately become the "Average Newb".

11FG_Clooney

LuckyBoy1
02-21-2005, 05:42 PM
I vote we elect Clooney the President of the Calculitic Universe!

He can dictate how code can be punched! He can wave his grand specimine of a hand before us and make all things compatable again regardless of how willfully ignorant we choose to be. He will punch the code for a better IL-2 over the weekend while drinking lots of beer and when he releases this freeware, all will come up sunshine and pantie liners!

Unfortunately, for this weekend at least, we get to deal with the best that is out there and it ain't nothin' but this game! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

IBTM!!!

georgeo76
02-21-2005, 06:08 PM
he's got a point, games should be more simple to install and play... it's just the the multitude of hard/software is often an unknown variable.

I guess the simple answer is that the non-computer savvy should prob just stick to console games.

While we're on the subject... I'd like to thank Microsoft. While they get flack for the monopoly thing, the standardization benefit is often ignored.

LuckyBoy1
02-21-2005, 06:28 PM
I am so glad to se the wisdom of the great General posting here! He is right on the money with his comments!

Unfortunately, that's not our priorities. we see an eye candy feature in this game and go...

Oleg, add this nonsense to BoB

We see some other feature in yet another game and say...

Oleg, add this feature to BoB

We see some sort of nonsense nobody will ever use or appreciate, but no, wait!...

Oleg, make sure that one is in BoB!

There's only so much Oleg to spread around on the cracker here boys, so make up your minds please!

Clooney_11FG
02-21-2005, 07:28 PM
So Luckyboy1, what you are saying is this:

If you want more eyecandy; buy a better video card.

If you want something added to the game you saw in another game: go play that game instead.

If you want a new plane; go download a new skin.

If you want your game to install without a hitch; forget it your a newb.

I am so sorry if I offended you in any way, I was merely trying to state a point and was not directing this thread at Oleg or trying to slam his work in any way, I simply used this game as a reference due to the issue that arose earlier in the day. I see these issues happen with other new games as well. I myself can get around these issues but for others in my group, it becomes a roadblock which I try to help them fix. If I had any knowledge that you would come and flame this thread with your brilliant wisdom, I would have not wasted my time contributing to this forum. I love this sim even with its shortcomings, I just feel that the steps that are being taken to improve on game technology are being taken in the opposite direction. And as for your demeanor, it has been noted, thanks.


Regards,
11FG_Clooney

Bearcat99
02-21-2005, 08:31 PM
Im feeling you but I blame you for this too Clooney. You should have brought him here... told him to introduce himself and get some help. I have introduced several people to this sim and all of them without exception after they bought the sim were told to hit the UBI forums...... lock the Essentials thread and go to Community Help with any and every problem no matter how sill it may sound. I havent had one give up yet and all of them are here just as hopelessly hooked as I am. If he gave up that quick then maybe it just wasnt for him. No offense...........

heywooood
02-21-2005, 08:39 PM
thats the lure of a console...all of the components is a console are the same...same prosessor - same graphics and sound modules in every mass produced x-box or ps2 so the software needs fewer facets to work properly.
Why there should ever be buggy console games is a mystery....

But with PCs, everyone is slightly to moderately different inside. From the OS to the MB to the chip to the ram etc...not to mention all those different drivers..so the programm must be adaptable AND stable...not to mention much larger so as to utilize all that extra computing power.

diomedes33
02-21-2005, 08:47 PM
Compare a game from the good 'ole days to one we have now.

For instance Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, was sold on 4 - 5 1.44 MB Disks (I can't remember the exact number, been awhile since I've seen it). IL2-FB 2CDs + AEP (1CD) + PF (2CDs) each at 650 MB compressed. Half Life-2 was around 5 CDs I think. So there is definatly more stuff in todays games than the earlier ones. More stuff -> More that can get screwed up.

Now look at SWOTL's complexity. It had simple hit boxes, simple 3d graphics all panels were 2d. On the other hand look at Il2 series. Complex DMs, Complex Flight models, 3d panarma view inside and outside the cockpit. Amazing 3d models. An attempt at accuracy that has never been tried before. More Complex -> easier to screw up.

So you have bigger more complex games now that have more ways to screw up the code. This may not be caught through alpha and beta testing.

Now factor in financial pressure, schedules to get the product out and an infinite number of hardware configurations and you even get more avenues for error.

That's how I see it, maybe I'm wrong, but seems resonable to me.

-HH-Quazi
02-21-2005, 10:26 PM
All in all, I get the original posters drift. But things will never be like the "good ol" days. There's no way they ever will be. Advancing technology dictates this, no matter how bad we miss just being able to install a game and play with no issues. I understand what you mean m8. And I think there will be a time in the future when we are installing our 2GB deep games from one cd and say, "Remember when we had to use 4 or 5 different disks just to install our games. Man this is so much easier." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Clooney_11FG
02-21-2005, 10:34 PM
I see your point BearCat, no offense taken. I did try to get him on the help forums but I think he was too ticked off to care, one of those stubborn types I guess. Maybe he did check it out, but I know he never posted anything(to my knowledge). And as for the the others, I do remember the good ole days with all that media, but you have to remember that the advancement in media is why our games now come on 700MB disks, im sure that when prices drop on DVD media, more game makers will be trying to cram as much data into them as they can. And why not? I would! I just think that there should be a fine line of simplicity and complexity. I'm all about graphics and realism as well as I think most are but some of the lesser experienced users are paying the price.

It's really hard to teach an old dog new tricks!

11FG_Clooney

psychobabbler
02-21-2005, 11:29 PM
feel the need to weigh in. i agree with clooney.
if a certain amount of computer savvey is needed
to install a game and keep it running,then that
info should be printed on the box. but then if
they were honest about how much horspower it takes
to run these games they wouldn't sell very many
copies. i've been lurking around here for a long time,and most of the discussion is and has been
about problems,not about enjoying the game.
that's a fact,don't try to deny it. flame me
if you want. the truth is the truth. okay; iv'e
said my piece. i can keep my box in shape but
some can't and should'nt have to just to play
a friggin' game.

LuckyBoy1
02-22-2005, 12:42 AM
From your original post...

I am merely just venting after a 5 hour long session of trying to help a friend via TS get his game set up to play online with our flight squad.


You come into Community Help to do that and I'll feed you your face for Supper!

You don't have to kiss my hind end or love me or even like me and I'll help you. Man, I've even helped a Dude who once launched a DOS attack (sad attempt it was at that) on me!

If you have a problem, vent in the general forum. If you want a solution... if it exists!... come to Community Help. most often all I do is ask a few questions and other, smarter people actually help solve the problem.

Wanna whine?!... SO DO I

You are exactly right that we as a user should be able to throw the discs in and hit, next, next, next and be done with the technical end. Is this a high priority for most of the numb brained users of this game?... apparently not!

They want eye candy and this obscure plane and that obscure plane and this weapon made better or less effective and getting the game to just flat out install, uninstall and run is way down on THEIR list... NOT MINE!!!!!!!

A true flight sim that is NOT ARCADE like is very demanding in its basic form. The CPU for just one plane has to calculate in something close to real time the following and more...

1) Air Speed

2) Direction

3) Altitude

4) Throttle setting

5) Flap position

6) Gear up or down

7) Weapons loadout and if loaded, are there still rockets on the racks or bombs on the pins.

8) Fuel mixture

9) Prop pitch even if it is fixed, it still has to be calculated for its effect

10) Air density

11) Humidity

12) Relative air turbulence

13) Guns firing?

14) Damage to airframe and where it is (that's several curves in of itself by the way)

15) Damage to engine (again, several curves just for that)

16) Drop tanks?

17) Fuel loadout


The list goes on and on and I'd bet there are more than 80 curves for your CPU to calculate for just one plane. all this has to happen before your CPU can pass back the stuff for more AA and more AF to the front of the video card to be filtered again. You simply lack the technology for this whine list!


Then these morons come in and add to that every last trick of eye candy they've ever seen in any game they've ever laid eyes on.

Good ole days? You find me a non-arcade like WWII flight sim with as few, if any cheats as this game that runs better or same and I'll drop Oleg and his Bucket 'O Bolts Band in half a heartbeat!

Franzen
02-22-2005, 12:43 AM
Ok, my 2 cents.

You all have valid points but I think this is a problem that is everywhere in the complete computer and software industry. The best example is Microsoft Windows. It has too many bugs simply due to the demand of the consumer. Microsoft cannot afford to stop the press and go back and repair or finish what they started.

The gaming industry has the same problem. Take a very small setback for example, a delayed patch. Read a few heated posts. They are very easy to find. No imagine the pressure and stress put on the developers. That's just a delayed patch. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

That was just one small example. Everyone who posted in this thread is right to some degree. The problem is , there is no one to blame. Do we blame the developers who are trying to meet the consumers' demands, in the end sacrificing quality for peace and sales.? Or do we blame the consumer for being so demanding? It's a bit of both I think. But how long will the consumer wait for the quality? I think it's too hard to answer.

I too want to give up. I've taken measurements and my pc, sticks, and all the software fit through my window. My desk could be nice for building models and holding pics of warbirds. The problem is, I enjoy controlling cartoon airplanes on a video monitor. The "good ol' days" were before I got my first pc. Now I'm hooked. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

That's my 2 cents, keep the change. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Dunkelgrun
02-22-2005, 01:03 AM
Hey LuckyBoy, what did this guy do to you?

Registered last month, posts what he sees as a valid opinion, directed at no-one in particular, and you jump all over him.

Please go back to what you do so admirably, i.e. helping people out.

Cheers!

LuckyBoy1
02-22-2005, 01:06 AM
Gee Luckyboy, don't hold back... tell him how you really feel! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

ok, now that I've vented, have your friend post the exact nature of his problem in Community Help and include a copy of his diagnosis. if you need instructions, see Luckyboy's Guide For Complete Users.

Do that much and we'll fall all over ourselves trying to help and not only will this game probably run better, your entire PC will be better off in the end and all for free! Now, how can you beat that?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WTE_Ibis
02-22-2005, 01:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
Compare a game from the good 'ole days to one we have now.

For instance Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, was sold on 4 - 5 1.44 MB Disks (I can't remember the exact number, been awhile since I've seen it). IL2-FB 2CDs + AEP (1CD) + PF (2CDs) each at 650 MB compressed. Half Life-2 was around 5 CDs I think. So there is definatly more stuff in todays games than the earlier ones. More stuff -&gt; More that can get screwed up.

Now look at SWOTL's complexity. It had simple hit boxes, simple 3d graphics all panels were 2d. On the other hand look at Il2 series. Complex DMs, Complex Flight models, 3d panarma view inside and outside the cockpit. Amazing 3d models. An attempt at accuracy that has never been tried before. More Complex -&gt; easier to screw up.

So you have bigger more complex games now that have more ways to screw up the code. This may not be caught through alpha and beta testing.

Now factor in financial pressure, schedules to get the product out and an infinite number of hardware configurations and you even get more avenues for error.

That's how I see it, maybe I'm wrong, but seems resonable to me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey m8, you forgot to add the added pressure of all the wingers whiners and moaners who all want different and opposing changes,makes for a very hard life IMHO. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

WTE_Ibis
02-22-2005, 01:18 AM
You tellum Luckey Boy,they need to be told.
You guys want simplicity,go play pong. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BBloke
02-22-2005, 04:50 AM
I gotta jump in on this one too.

I feel for you Clooney. I've been there many a time either on voice comms, VNC, MSN, ICQ. You name it I have it and used it more than once to help others.

From what I've been reading, especially LB's excellent "game curve" post it does seem that the more complex the game the more of a bind it is to install!! It also seems that the more complex the game engine the more complex tweaking has to be done to get the most out of what we have.

There are 2 close friends that constantly remind me that if I wasn't helping them get the most out of their rig they, for sure, wouldn't have the money to upgrade to the premier line of components to get the best out of the game and would be completely lost at trying to eeek out every last FPS increase and minimise stutter to be able to play on line. Basically they would just give up and pack their PC up and put it in the garage.

We all know the game is the best. Even when you just add up the hours of online play. I consider myself to be a light to medium player, once I was on 2 hours per day for 18 months. I know more are on for a lot longer.

PC's are a passion and my curiousity is never quenched when it comes to new toys. I can get around most things and have picked up a good amount of knowledge to get me a little further along than most. I would have expected a little better considerate posting from you LB on the side of experience and the lengths and depths you went to for the community with your greatly composed Luckyboy's guide. A masterpiece for the community IMHO.

Are we as gamers and PC users asking for too much too soon. Foresight would be fantastic for a developer if he could believe that everyone had the same passions to own an AMD FX53 chip, RAM to suit and an X800XT PE or Ultra.. which ever flavour takes your fancy and respectifully raped your wallet.

Consoles are great but they too suffer from updates from time to time which can effect the standardisations you would expect from a same ol' same ol' console.

Like Franzen has said are we asking too much and making things far more difficult than we need to. I find myself demanding less from developers and more from my PC. I don't care much for eyecandy but I do care about game play. Sometimes you just gotta live with what you have and make the most of it.

1) Air Speed
- Post 'um DXDIAG

2) Direction
- Update your chipsets

3) Altitude
- Update your GFX drivers

4) Throttle setting
- Update your sound drivers

5) Flap position
- Lower hardware sound acceleration

6) Gear up or down
- Correct refresh rate

7) Weapons loadout and if loaded, are there still rockets on the racks or bombs on the pins.
- Set GFX options

8) Fuel mixture
- Lower WATER and EFFECTS settings in Conf.ini

9) Prop pitch even if it is fixed, it still has to be calculated for its effect
- TO S3TC or to not S3TC.

10) Air density
- To check or not to check video options

11) Humidity
- To do Latency Tool or not.

12) Relative air turbulence
- Install Sun Java or not

13) Guns firing?
- Pay the money for 1Gb RAM

14) Damage to airframe and where it is (that's several curves in of itself by the way)
- close down the unwanted services

15) Damage to engine (again, several curves just for that)
- Do I really wanna run perfect!?!

16) Drop tanks?
- "Whats cheating"

17) Fuel loadout
- "Lag", yeah I got some around my boiler!!!


- Have you checked for Spyware

Sometimes all the help in the world is not enough. You can lead a horse to water does spring to mind. I can see how hard it is for some users to read techno-babble and almost faint at what its suggesting to do. Brain surgery or Quantum physics would be an easier challenge. I wouldn't dream of touching my car.. I just know its stupid to even think I could make it better and besides I know less than nothing. All I need to know is where the petrol goes and how do I start it. When it stops I make a phone call!!

S~

B16Enk
02-22-2005, 05:50 AM
Well I agree it's intensely frustrating.

But boy the elation when you get it fixed!

The good 'ol days are long gone, where once there was a handful of manufacturers of systems/components there are now a bewildering array.

That it is possible to install a common operating system and have it work (whether its $$$ware or open source) is something of a minor miracle, possible only die to 'standards'.

However those standards are not so rigorously enforced, MS did there best (and still are) with their 'Designed for Microsoft *insert overpriced OS of choice here*. Understandably that does define the hardware and drivers combination, and driver certification helps a lot too.

But how many of you have installed a device and ignored the WHQL warning when it warns you of untested drivers?

I'm not saying, I hastily write (which is a bit dumb 'cos you won't read this until I've finished any way http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif), that stick with WHQL and all will be well. Because that ain't the case.

Consider the BIOS update you do, the tweak you apply with a latency tool. All these things combine to create a semi-standard set up that will run Word etc. without issue.

Then throw a real bit of software at it that will seek to make every hard and soft component of your system to work to it's maximum.

Small wonder things can and do go wrong, the good 'ol days software never pushed hardware. It's writers were pushing their own capabilities too much for that!

Yes in an ideal world software would run no matter what hardware it was installed on, and this would be tested to the full by the developer before release.

However with the potential millions of combinations of hardware, software and drivers available something as ground breaking as the IL2 series would never see the shelf.

Clearly the developers have done what they can by providing several generic pre-sets.

The publishers have thrown their own gotcha into the mix too, with a copy protection method that is more female than male when it come to deciding what CD-ROM devices it will sleep with.

These reasons are why the like of the community help forum exist, paradoxically a video game is actually encouraging us to communicate, and in doing so add to society.

Clooney, if your friend can be at all persuaded to post his tribulations in the Community help forum I'm sure there will be help for him.

Yours,

one of the legions of "Average Newbs" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S 8
02-22-2005, 07:17 AM
I can´t recall having a problem installing a game at all on my computers (2 so far)I have been very lucky without big issues at all with them.I guess they are well balanced equipment wise and well maintenced. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Sturm_Williger
02-22-2005, 07:44 AM
I feel for you and your mate, Clooney, but I have to ask "When were the good old days ?"

I remember many (happy ?) hours spent trying to cram the DOS operating system into less space, so that the d@mn game ( AOE comes to mind ) would have all 640K to run in... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

That was an art, let me tell you. Those were the days, heh heh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LuckyBoy1
02-22-2005, 08:22 AM
I like the post by BBLOKE because it shows how frustrating computers in general can be. Nothing stresses all ends of a computer at the same time to thier maximum effort like a serious flight simulation game. Everything is running flat out, even on the newest gear just to keep up. We say things like...

My computer runs everything else just fine except this buggy game.

Then we go in, finally attend to things we were never aware of that are very important and in the end, we have a faster, more secure computer for our efforts all around. This game is quite often the application that finally makes us face a reality that steve v first proposed to me. When he said so, it made me quite angry. Her said something like...

Knowing how to do all these things should be viewed as a basic life skill because computers are now an every day part of life.


I thought, "You geeks may have the time for this nonsense, I simply do not"! After all, if it was so important, wouldn't Dell and Microsoft and Norton pointed it out to me and it would have been already fixed?

1) Dell never told me in over a dozen service calls to them about available bios update or chipset updates that would both make my computer run better and more secure. They also have a written policy that fires customer service agents that work for them if they tell us about Ad-Aware free version or Spybot or offer to discuss spyware.

2) MicroSoft will blame your apllication every time. If the PC boots, their job in their eyes is done regardless of cause or reason.

3) Norton told me that if a program does not actually destroy data, it is not considered something Norton Anti-virus would cover. as a result, many trojans and nasty hijackers as well as advertising bots go undetected.


Do I wanna become a computer geek? Hell no! Unfortunately, steve v is so spot on with this one!

All that being said, the game could at least cleanly uninstall. This is a very common problem in programming because more than one person has their peanut butter fingers in the program at once. One programmer leaves a DLL idling when his shift ends and the next guy goes...

Well, I would have thought that needed deleting on the uninstall, but obviously someone is using it.

As a result, this game and many other applications simply do not uninstall cleanly. Go to any computer school and they will call this the exact definition of sloppy programming. Still, not just with this game, but again and again and especially with Cousin Billy, stuff doesn't seem to want to uninstall to the point where reformatting our hard drive becomes our best option sooner or later and these days, it gets sooner and sooner and sooner.

This issue has nothing, and I mean nothing to do with the many different hardware configurations out there. It is not limited to this game, but it is sloppy.

Unfortunately, our demands for serious flight simulation games is killing the sport and our choices for this type of game. we are asking it to do all sorts of nonsense and uninstalling correctly is NOT a high priority for most users. It SHOULD BE, but I'm not going to hold my breathe for the day that should not only could, but would!

wayno7777
02-22-2005, 08:29 AM
I always wonder why there is twelve million ways to open a file. Maybe one of the reasons OS's are so bloated. There should be an OS for gaming that doesn't include all the excess cr@p. I know, wishful thinking.

Clooney_11FG
02-22-2005, 08:40 AM
Well written on that last one Luckyboy, I'm glad to see you got the jist of what I was getting at with my first post. I think that venting can be a good thing as it clears the air and mind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . I did send that fella an email telling him that there were helpful people just waiting to pounce all over his problem in the Community Help Forum, I really hope he takes the advice and runs with it.

TAGERT.
02-22-2005, 09:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clooney_11FG:
A new game comes out and all you have to do is install and play, sweet. Oh wait, a new patch...download it and install, WOW, game works better!!! Oh whats this, after about 3 months of playing my game acts weird??? Solution: uninstall/reinstall. Poof, problem fixed. You know, that was then and this is now. Games nowadays are not like this and for what reason??? Does anyone know? Maybe the devs can ponder this idea for a bit. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Reason? simple, The PC, the hardware (video, sound, etc) of the PC, the OS running on the PC, and the flight sim running within the the OS, on the PC, using the hardware is more complex nowdays.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clooney_11FG:
Why can we all not buy a game anymore without having some kind of issue, the number of problems these days are staggering and you almost have to be an Einstein to figure them out. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Why? simple, The PC, the hardware (video, sound, etc) of the PC, the OS running on the PC, and the flight sim running within the the OS, on the PC, using the hardware is more complex nowdays.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clooney_11FG:
For instance, do a merged install of PF, then for some reason you decide to uninstall/reinstall everything, wow, now the disks stop working with absolutely no dirt or scratches on them. You take the disks back and get a new game thinking the thing is faulty. Ok, lets try this again. To my horror i have the same problem, now is there something wrong with my computer, did i make a mistake or did i just buy another faulty game? Everything was working fine before i tried all of this.......(and this is where the big decisions hit)....do i try to figure out whats causing the problem, go get another exchange or give up all together?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>By decuction holms and simple logic there is something wrong with your computer or you made a mistake, in that the odds of the symptom existing on two seperate CD's is very low. Espically when you consider the fact that the CD use to work on your computer.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clooney_11FG:
This is the type of thing unfortunately that happens to those people who are not up to date on their computer skills, nor really want to be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which is why XBOX will eventully take over the game market. Most people done have the smarts or are just too lazy to keep up with it all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clooney_11FG:
Theses are your common everyday people who work hard for a living and simply want to get on their computer and take to the virtual world with a simple click of the mouse. Those days are long gone it seems. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>For some.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clooney_11FG:
I am merely just venting after a 5 hour long session of trying to help a friend via TS get his game set up to play online with our flight squad. He's not the brightest when it comes to computers but it shouldnt take a rocket scientist to get a game installed. The outcome is that he is taking the game back for a second time for a refund and giving up all together. This is a shame cuz he was the best CFS2 pilot we had in our group and now he cannot get into the IL2 community merely because his game would not install. I'm sure everyones thinking "what were the specs on his PC?" Simply put, he has brand new AMD Athlon 64 machine that works great. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is a shame.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Clooney_11FG:
I really hope devs can look more into what they are putting out to the public because now the "Average Joe" has unfortunately become the "Average Newb". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yup, the days of the PC running our games are numbered. The XBOX mindset will win in the end. Becuase the majority of the people are just not up to the task. Problem with that is the XBOX is intended for just those types of people, and along with that, those types of people are the types that dont know the difference between a jet and a prop, thus along with the XBOX comes the dumbing down of flight sims to cater to the WING COMMANDER and QUAKE mind sets. So, the death of the PC running games will most likly be followed by the death of realistic flight sims.

TAGERT.
02-22-2005, 09:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sturm_Williger:
I feel for you and your mate, Clooney, but I have to ask "When were the good old days ?"

I remember many (happy ?) hours spent trying to cram the DOS operating system into less space, so that the d@mn game ( AOE comes to mind ) would have all 640K to run in... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

That was an art, let me tell you. Those were the days, heh heh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Been there done that.. The Johnny come lately missed out on all that.. Those were the days! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Agamemnon22
02-22-2005, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wayno7777:
I always wonder why there is twelve million ways to open a file. Maybe one of the reasons OS's are so bloated. There should be an OS for gaming that doesn't include all the excess cr@p. I know, wishful thinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Xbox http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Win2k kernel cut down to something like 23k. But the reason its possible is because all Xbox's are essentially identical. Which covers about half of all PC game problems, they have to cater to a multitude of different configurations. Conversely, hardware driver writers have to make sure what they change doesn't have any negative effects on any game in existence, which is virtually impossible, which is why we go through iterations of drivers. So at the end of the day the PC gaming world requires a bit of technical knowledge. I mean you drive a car, you gotta know what gas to put in it, maybe change the oil once in a while, check if there are any recalls on any important bits...

(Btw, the other half of problems we experience are sloppy programming. A game should at the very least install, its not a difficult process and how one can manage to muck it up is beyond me)

BBloke
02-22-2005, 01:15 PM
Hehehehehe I remember those DOS days.. my god I'm too young for this!!!

The days when config.sys meant something, plug and pray wasnt around and IRQ were set with jumpers then match in the config....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>By LB
Do I wanna become a computer geek? Hell no! Unfortunately, steve v is so spot on with this one! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Did I wanna be a geek?!?!? MMmmmmmmm somethings just happen. I find it too easy to read the readme and understand it just as much as I find debug some code easy and enjoyable.

Like some have said, the buzz you get from building your own system is fantastic.. the same can be said for creating code that does what you want it to do with just the right amount of bells and whistles. Such is the game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
(Btw, the other half of problems we experience are sloppy programming. A game should at the very least install, its not a difficult process and how one can manage to muck it up is beyond me) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sure that would be the anti-piracy software. Floppies just had a habbit of working! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Targ
02-22-2005, 01:53 PM
The good old days? Heck, we have never had it so good. The good old days meant downloading a 24 MB patch over dialup that took two days to get becouse you got disconnected 9/10ths of the way through or got a corrupted download. Or a game that never worked right out of the box for 80 % of the people who purchased it and never saw a patch.
Having to re-boot your machine every two hours to free memory and resources, or reinstalling windows every six months come rain or shine.
Computers are not appliances nor will they ever be, having a smooth running computer takes know how and effort not to mention good habits. People are lazy in many regards when it comes to computers, more often than not they are not willing to spend any time trying to learn anything about them nor do the read the manuals or instructions.
If not for the people that due understand computers helping those who dont, no not helping but often doing it for them than many would not own one. If mechanics worked on cars for free than no one would ever check the oil in there cars or do preventitive maintenence, heck many dont do that now. People would expect the mechanic to drop what they are doing and come over right away day or night and fix there car promplty while they sat on the couch watching TV, for free of course.
I have seen more screwed up computers than I care to see and almost always it is user error or really bad habits that cause there problems. I call these people the "Clickey clicks" "I clickey clicked on the thingy and it dont work WTH?"
946 spyware items, 13 viruses, 2 trojans..How is this the fault of the game developers? If I fault anyone it is the companys selling computers to people and giveing them the impression that it is no more complicated to run and use than a blender.
Tell your friend to box the computer up and send it back and get a refund, all of his computer problems will be solved, or tell him to not be a tight wad and take it in and pay someone to install the game for him and do a tune op on the computer.
No different than a car and that is the plain truth.

Clooney_11FG
02-22-2005, 04:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Targ:
The good old days? Heck, we have never had it so good. The good old days meant downloading a 24 MB patch over dialup that took two days to get becouse you got disconnected 9/10ths of the way through or got a corrupted download. Or a game that never worked right out of the box for 80 % of the people who purchased it and never saw a patch.
Having to re-boot your machine every two hours to free memory and resources, or reinstalling windows every six months come rain or shine.
Computers are not appliances nor will they ever be, having a smooth running computer takes know how and effort not to mention good habits. People are lazy in many regards when it comes to computers, more often than not they are not willing to spend any time trying to learn anything about them nor do the read the manuals or instructions.
If not for the people that due understand computers helping those who dont, no not helping but often doing it for them than many would not own one. If mechanics worked on cars for free than no one would ever check the oil in there cars or do preventitive maintenence, heck many dont do that now. People would expect the mechanic to drop what they are doing and come over right away day or night and fix there car promplty while they sat on the couch watching TV, for free of course.
I have seen more screwed up computers than I care to see and almost always it is user error or really bad habits that cause there problems. I call these people the "Clickey clicks" "I clickey clicked on the thingy and it dont work WTH?"
946 spyware items, 13 viruses, 2 trojans..How is this the fault of the game developers? If I fault anyone it is the companys selling computers to people and giveing them the impression that it is no more complicated to run and use than a blender.
Tell your friend to box the computer up and send it back and get a refund, all of his computer problems will be solved, or tell him to not be a tight wad and take it in and pay someone to install the game for him and do a tune op on the computer.
No different than a car and that is the plain truth. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Let me clear the air here since I'm new and most of you really have no idea who I am. I'm a 32 y/o MIS Technician for Atlas Logistics(an affiliate of Kroger). I build and repair computers on the side as a hobby(only) and love flying. So I am well aware of all of the cr@p these "Clickey Clicks" pick up along the way on the internet and their effects and implications on software as I deal with them on a daily basis. I also know that most OS's have their ups and downs as well. But a newly built machine with some of the latest hardware and a FRESH install of XP Pro should not be having issues of spyware, but I know there are exceptions. Now, had I thought for one second that he had cr@p garbling up his files and causing him this problem, I would have never posted in the first place. All in all you really cant point your finger at just one area. But I tell ya, when you install one game with no problem and then turn around and install a newer game and it fails to initialize or what have you, it really makes you wonder what the heck is going on. In this case I think (as with most cases) it has to do with the copyright protection(I'm with BBloke on this one) they add to the game that inherently causes these issues, but like I said before, you really cant put your finger on just one factor as there are too many.

My attitude about this whole situation has changed a bit since reading everyone's comments on this matter and I also just finished helping another member get his game installed, again he had a similar problem but I was able to walk him through it. The funny thing is, this kid is only 12y/o where as the first fella was 36, again; old dog new tricks.

By the way, nice to meet all of you!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

11FG_Clooney

TacticalYak3
02-22-2005, 04:17 PM
Ok, let me get on my soapbox for a few minutes fellows.

Sorry to hear about your mate's problem. I do understand the frustration, though I have always been technologically inclined (though not necessarily the brightest bulb in the box).

The benefit of consoles and Apple computers is that things generally work properly. Until Uncle Billy completely takes over the PC world we have to continue struggling with all these problems. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

HOWEVER, and with respect to those very knowledgeable folks in the IL-2 community, we really are the authors of our own misfortunate. I mean whenever there is a little patch we see folks encouraged to re-install their games (if not their complete OS). Or at least back everything up. It's a patch. Read the directions, install, and at the most run the game with the default video and sound drivers. Then tweak if absolutely necessary.

Same with video updates. Only update if there is a problem or a reported improvement for IL-2. Be weary of IL-2 third-party stuff, while most really add to the game some can mess up your original install.

The bottom line is we certainly enjoy the benefit of prompt updates. However, it seems to me that we can also become pre-occupied with endless updates, tweaks and so forth and less time gaming.

And given how many folks play IL-2 of course it is more than possible to install and run the game and a wide variety of systems.

Regards,
TactS!

Lucius_Esox
02-22-2005, 04:55 PM
I do appreciate your friends troubles Clooney, and at some time I have been there myself. But I can also see that if things were "done" to correct the situation vis a vis your friend, and many others like him, it could ultimately lead to the end of sims like IL2. I say this with no offence intended but I would worry this process would effectively "dumb down" s/ware of the IL2 ilk. We are actually imo talking about money here. To make a game of IL2's complexity "bulletproof" of the shelf would be financially untenable. Look at Falcon 4, a classic example, and that happened in a much less "polarised" market than exists today. I really do agree with an earlier poster who made the point that if someone is not computer "savvy" enough then they should probably get a console. I don't think there will ever come a time (I hope not at least http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) when "serious" flight simmers stop wanting more. I also think that that if that did happen the genre would risk extinction. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

LuckyBoy1
02-22-2005, 07:54 PM
Someone wanna show me a serious WWII flight sim game available for X-Bot?

Unfortunately, even if they had a 64 bit X-Bot thingy, it would lack the flexibility needed for serious flight sim games.

Would I like to go back to fat, smell and ingorant? Sure would! I can't do much about the fat part and the smelly part keeps coming back, but the ignorant part... well, your wife can leave you, your kids can die, your house can be reposessed and your car can stop running, but your knowledge, the part that counts won't leave you until you are well beyond a condition where you could care less.

LuckyBoy1
02-22-2005, 08:44 PM
One last point that others have made that i think should be said again. ok, the game can be trouble to run, so how do you get even as small a number as 2 million people wordwide (believe it or not, in games, that is a very small number) to play it? The answer is as simple or complex as you want to make it...

Name me another game that is as scalable for how you can tweak the graphics and sound settings to get the best features out of the game while preserving your basic frame rates on a given computer?

Name me another serious flight simulation game with as many planes, maps, western Front, eastern front, desert north africa Map an Pacific carrier operations?

Name me another game that you can learn all the time in and still be quite the novice after 2 years of playing it 14 hours or more a week?

Name me another serious flight sim game where they don't patch it once, but try, try again to get it right instead of just patching it once and walking away from it?

Name me a game where you can truly find such an International community?

Name me another game that you can play this many hours without totally being bored with it? I'm still not playing this game because it is "the least boring choice". I play it because it still holds my interest.

Name me a game that per hours played over the time I've played it would cost less per hour to play? I bet the list is short and get smart and say free games and guess what?... they're not free, they're loaded with spyware! and are any of these games nearly as good to play as this?

My daughter's boyfriend has a stack of first person shooter type games. He's got maybe 2,000 hours playing them. I'd doubt he's spent more than 10 hours playing any one game!

All in all, this game for me at least, is worth the aggrivation it causes... and some of the aggrivation it causes forces me to run my computer better than it ever has given same hardware!

Bearcat99
02-22-2005, 09:15 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifHEY CLOONEY!!!!! DID YOU INTRODUCE YOURELF IN THE WHO WE ARE THREAD!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If not then do so..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Was your friend trying to install FB on a RW drive? (Did somebiody ask that already?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif)

Lucius_Esox
02-23-2005, 03:51 AM
Man,,, it's good to see so much passion http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EURO_Snoopy
02-23-2005, 05:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifHEY CLOONEY!!!!! DID YOU INTRODUCE YOURELF IN THE WHO WE ARE THREAD!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If not then do so..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Was your friend trying to install FB on a RW drive? (Did somebiody ask that already?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From what I've read it looks like someone skipped the readme file http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

WWSensei
02-23-2005, 05:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wayno7777:
I always wonder why there is twelve million ways to open a file. Maybe one of the reasons OS's are so bloated. There should be an OS for gaming that doesn't include all the excess cr@p. I know, wishful thinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not wishful thinking. It exists today. Costs about 1/10th of your average PC. It's called a console like the PS/2, X-Box, N-Cube etc....

BBloke
02-23-2005, 06:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name me another game that is as scalable for how you can tweak the graphics and sound settings to get the best features out of the game while preserving your basic frame rates on a given computer? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Max Payne 2. Had a boat load of settings to change including sound - you never said flight sim on that one!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name me another serious flight simulation game with as many planes, maps, western Front, eastern front, desert north africa Map an Pacific carrier operations <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

IL2 Sturmovik - the original... the absolute meat and two veg with no need for starters or sweets. The **** thing was the best and the original and needed less power than your average duracell bunny!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name me another game that you can learn all the time in and still be quite the novice after 2 years of playing it 14 hours or more a week? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unreal Tournament.. had me scuppered for long enough til I broke 100 frags in 20 mins.. 150 was the one to aim for though

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name me another serious flight sim game where they don't patch it once, but try, try again to get it right instead of just patching it once and walking away from it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was I reading between the lines on this thread. I thought the whole idea of this was "do it right in the first place" and patches would only be needed for those with eye trouble.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name me a game where you can truly find such an International community? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bet Half-Life 2 has one.. and it'll be bigger than ours... but then size doesn't really matter now does it... I reckon the game demographic covers the over 30's as the major users!!!!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name me another game that you can play this many hours without totally being bored with it? I'm still not playing this game because it is "the least boring choice". I play it because it still holds my interest. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tetris - Man that game rocked!!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Name me a game that per hours played over the time I've played it would cost less per hour to play? I bet the list is short and get smart and say free games and guess what?... they're not free, they're loaded with spyware! and are any of these games nearly as good to play as this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tombraider - the great british game of all time. Engrossing from the get go and took longer than your average joe's toilet trip after 10 pints.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>My daughter's boyfriend has a stack of first person shooter type games. He's got maybe 2,000 hours playing them. I'd doubt he's spent more than 10 hours playing any one game! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That could be due to the fact that the game's total play time is less than 10 hours. Same goes for most movies too. Its not often you see a hollywood film get much over 90mins. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>All in all, this game for me at least, is worth the aggrivation it causes... and some of the aggrivation it causes forces me to run my computer better than it ever has given same hardware! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I agree the game is worth it. Although, again, users frustrations when something just wont install will leave the game on the shelf collecting dust. Most dont want to study for a degree in computer science or engineering just to play a game.. most are looking for the out of box experience that has already been mentioned and associated with a console.

It wouldn't be a far leap of the imagination to get a keyboard plugged into an X-Box and what do you have!!!!!?????

A bl**dy PC!!!!!!

Everything goes in circles.... yet it still amazes me that we can't kick our own backsides!!!!!!

Enough of my ramblings.. its 1:30am in the UK.. I'm tired, its snowing and I'm gonna hit the sack!!!

ThrottleJok
02-23-2005, 07:05 PM
Evening all,

New here at Ubi forums. As I read this thread I begin to miss the good days of Commadore 64, Acrojet Flight Sim, Atari Joysticks, 300 baud modems, $600.00 floppy drives, and 1.02 Mhz processors... Say, you know, these good new days aren't that bad after all.

Good Ol' Days...Bahh!

white12
02-23-2005, 09:08 PM
Clooney mate, what have you done? OK, let me see if I got this right. The concise edition. #1 IL2 (fb, aep, pf) is the highest tech in this genre. #2 High tech = complexity. #3 Complexity = bugs. #4 We, this tight knit community (he-he) of enthusiasts will endure any and all adversaties to enjoy this sim to its fullist because of #1. Final thought... Guys, do be civil toward one another. Yes even the newb because after all he's here isn't he? Because is someone like Dr Phil were to get ahold of this thread (and air it); It won't be the xbox we have to worry about. Oh, and Tagert not that I disagree with anything you said per se. Do go on vacation before you pop a main.

TheJoyStick
02-23-2005, 09:22 PM
Well.. In the last 2 years or so, just about every game I've installed has had some sort of problem.

SO, I said "screw it, wasting my money and my time.."

I learned my lesson really fast, and now it's "Download now, if it works, buy it tommorow"

Haven't wasted a penny yet, except for MOHPA.. I will say I was not expecting that game to be as crappy as it was online. Wow, take my advice. That game is *** on crack.

Clooney_11FG
02-23-2005, 09:34 PM
I'm sorry fellas, I cant help but sit here and grin right now. This is the only time in my life that someone has really thought about anything I have said. I usually get the old "in one ear, out the other" routine, I guess I have just never really hung out with the right group of people. Looks like you all have a friend for life now.

I think I'm going to break out the old Commodore 64 and have a nice Space Shuttle sim experience, this should be interesting. LOL, j/k!!!

PS: I sure hope White didnt call me a newb, I would rather be called "the new guy".

Cheers!

SeminoleX
02-23-2005, 11:42 PM
I don't get the good old days thing. I lived through them.

Today with any title I buy it is now only a matter of inserting the disk...installling and playing. Problems are rare and then easily fixed if one crops up .At least that's been my experience.

Back in the good old days I recall without fondness the hoops you had to go through to play almost anything new. Boot disks. Not enough memory. Load this into high mem load that into high mem. Modify your AUTOEXEC / CONFIG. Joystick not recognised. Sound card not recognised. Hours on the phone with tech support to get SWOTL, Aces Of the Pacific, Their Finest hour...just to boot up properly with the devices you have.. Not much in the way of forums in those days to help a guy out as there are today.

You can have those good old days thank you. I'll stay just where I am.

FI.Snaphoo
02-24-2005, 12:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeminoleX:
I don't get the good old days thing. I lived through them.

Today with any title I buy it is now only a matter of inserting the disk...installling and playing. Problems are rare and then easily fixed if one crops up .At least that's been my experience.

Back in the good old days I recall without fondness the hoops you had to go through to play almost anything new. Boot disks. Not enough memory. Load this into high mem load that into high mem. Modify your AUTOEXEC / CONFIG. Joystick not recognised. Sound card not recognised. Hours on the phone with tech support to get SWOTL, Aces Of the Pacific, Their Finest hour...just to boot up properly with the devices you have.. Not much in the way of forums in those days to help a guy out as there are today.

You can have those good old days thank you. I'll stay just where I am. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said... I'll reserve the nostalgic thoughts to things I had fun doing... Installing was never fun "back in the day"...

Clooney_11FG
02-24-2005, 12:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FI.Snaphoo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeminoleX:
I don't get the good old days thing. I lived through them.

Today with any title I buy it is now only a matter of inserting the disk...installling and playing. Problems are rare and then easily fixed if one crops up .At least that's been my experience.

Back in the good old days I recall without fondness the hoops you had to go through to play almost anything new. Boot disks. Not enough memory. Load this into high mem load that into high mem. Modify your AUTOEXEC / CONFIG. Joystick not recognised. Sound card not recognised. Hours on the phone with tech support to get SWOTL, Aces Of the Pacific, Their Finest hour...just to boot up properly with the devices you have.. Not much in the way of forums in those days to help a guy out as there are today.

You can have those good old days thank you. I'll stay just where I am. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said... I'll reserve the nostalgic thoughts to things I had fun doing... Installing was never fun "back in the day"... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Whoa, I think you guys went way to far back. I was merely talking within the last five years.

sgilewicz
02-24-2005, 01:20 PM
Sorry but the good old days weren't quite so good. While we may have had fewer patches we were also working in a non-plug and play environment. Remember setting IRQs, DMAs, etc. for specific devices in config.sys and autoexec.bat. It could get ugly in a hurry. We also had poorer internet access to try and troubleshoot these problems. I have been playing games on PCs since the mid 80s and trust me, it's easier now than it ever was!

sgilewicz
02-24-2005, 01:21 PM
Sorry Seminole you beat me to it!

SeminoleX
02-24-2005, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sgilewicz:
Sorry Seminole you beat me to it! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NP...Great minds think alike right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Some people probably think the 30's were good old times too...but didn't actually have to live through the great depression.