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View Full Version : Biggest change needed to keep FH going for years to come



Knight_Raime
10-24-2019, 04:47 PM
We could talk on end about balance specific changes and hero design MM etc. But we're at the point where the devs are very unlikely to bring in large amounts of new players regardless of what changes they make. So the next and most logical step is to find a way to keep player retention up. The reality of the situation is For Honor's largest part of the playerbase is on console and the console experience is abysmal.

People have suggested moving platforms to pc if you plan on sticking around (myself included.) But this isn't really supported by the developers in any easy way and pc's are not cheap. I bring this up because if we can manage to sort out the console experience we'd deff keep player population high for a long time to come. So how do we improve their experience?

Seperate balancing is obviously not something that will be done. Going free to play is very unlikely. So what? The answer is cross play. Going cross play means ques should be a lot faster. And having the whole playerbase connected like this is just good for longevity sake. So how do we accomplish this when console and pc setups differ wildly in performance.

We bring up console to 60dps, lock PC to 60fps, and give console an FoV slider (if not possible than find a better FoV than default and lock it for both platforms.) This would even the playing field for everyone and also remove the fringe and situation benefits one gets for eeking out stupidly high frames. "But console can't do 60fps." False.
See i'm pretty confident in saying it's possible. What likely happened was the devs wanting to push visual fidelity. I.e having a prettier game to sell.

However, we're far beyond that point as I mentioned the bulk of the money the devs make now is likely on steel purchases. Not copies sold. I have no doubt it would be a massive undertaking to do all of this. But they did it once before with dedicated servers. They can do it again with this. (i'm aware this won't fix the extra input delay that exists with console fighting games. but it will make the experience a lot better as a whole.)

Hormly
10-24-2019, 05:27 PM
Lock my pc to 60fps?

Sir the reason I play on pc is because I want a superior experience, I spent good money on a strong rig and a modern monitor for the best experience possible.

You try to drag me down to console standards, I'm gonna get my musket

Baggin_
10-24-2019, 05:56 PM
Lock my pc to 60fps?

Sir the reason I play on pc is because I want a superior experience, I spent good money on a strong rig and a modern monitor for the best experience possible.

You try to drag me down to console standards, I'm gonna get my musket

He has a little bit of a point though. Playing capped is much better than not playing at all.

Knight_Raime
10-24-2019, 06:11 PM
Lock my pc to 60fps?

Sir the reason I play on pc is because I want a superior experience, I spent good money on a strong rig and a modern monitor for the best experience possible.

You try to drag me down to console standards, I'm gonna get my musket

So did I buddy boy. Doesn't mean I'm going to be a jerk about it and let the game die off because of entitlement.

Top players of the game actually share my sentiment and would gladly accept the cap as well.

Besides you said you quit playing so what do you care. You're just being argumentative.

Soldier_of_Dawn
10-24-2019, 06:16 PM
This idea would only work for next-gen and current-gen premium consoles. I would say the standard consoles couldn't handle a consistent 60FPS since 30FPS was the target framerate from the beginning. Also, the devs tested my idea for combined effects and could not go through with it due to performance reasons where they were already at the limit.

See 53:16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kw2MwNcj20

They could try toning down certain visuals for standard consoles but I doubt it would pan out. Again, premium and next-gen consoles would be your best bet. If you're still not sure, consider this video which indicates that standard consoles are already at the limit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2VqOC0AIwo

On a slightly different topic, making progression cross-platform would help bring more players to PC.

Baggin_
10-24-2019, 06:26 PM
Although to be honest I'd rather them take all that time and effort into making For Honor 2.

The Division 2 is a high step up from the first game and I have high hopes that they would be able to take the knowledge they learned from this game aand straighten out the core mechanics for the sequel.

EvoX.
10-24-2019, 07:43 PM
lock PC to 60fps

Hahahahaha...

No. Terrible suggestion.

AmonDarkGod
10-24-2019, 07:51 PM
Interesting idea but no. Cross Platform will ruin the game even further

Baggin_
10-24-2019, 08:00 PM
Interesting idea but no. Cross Platform will ruin the game even further

How do you think that would it ruin the game even further?

AmonDarkGod
10-24-2019, 08:11 PM
How do you think that would it ruin the game even further?

First of all the fps cap would be horrible. Connection issues. etc etc. Also that would require them to rebalance the game which they wont do it...Since I doubt the devs will just convert the whole game to console and be done with it...

Soldier_of_Dawn
10-24-2019, 08:12 PM
How do you think that would it ruin the game even further?

In terms of the current state the console version is in:



Latency from poorer set-ups
Input Lag/delay
Framerate


The above would make the PVP on PC more frustrating than it already is. Players with high latency on PC are very laggy so could you imagine the issues that would occur by adding console players to the table? They would need to fix those things first before proceeding and that's if they can at this stage of the game's life cycle.

AmonDarkGod
10-24-2019, 08:14 PM
In terms of the current state the console version is in:



Latency from poorer set-ups
Input Lag/delay
Framerate


The above would make the PVP on PC more frustrating than it already is. Players with high latency on PC are very laggy so could you imagine the issues that would occur by adding console players to the table? They would need to fix those things first before proceeding and that's if they can at this stage of the game's life cycle.

Thats the thing. People are not aware that this game is getting old... I would not be surprised if the Wu Lin hero would be the last hero we will get...

Baggin_
10-24-2019, 08:20 PM
In terms of the current state the console version is in:



Latency from poorer set-ups
Input Lag/delay
Framerate


The above would make the PVP on PC more frustrating than it already is. Players with high latency on PC are very laggy so could you imagine the issues that would occur by adding console players to the table? They would need to fix those things first before proceeding and that's if they can at this stage of the game's life cycle.

People already play with mediocre rigs attached to mediocre monitors that are equivalent to consoles.

Like Knight mentioned above, you can cap the frame rate on pc to make that part fair.

However I don't see them doing or really want them to do this because I'd rather them make For Honor 2.

Soldier_of_Dawn
10-24-2019, 08:26 PM
Thats the thing. People are not aware that this game is getting old... I would not be surprised if the Wu Lin hero would be the last hero we will get...

That would explain why they released the 'complete' edition of this game around the beginning of this year.

A big however though, I doubt the franchise would die. Ubisoft said they wanted a fighting game in their list of genres so I'm sure For Honor 2 for next-gen is on the cards. They would probably port this game to next-gen and take advantage of the new technology to address the current consoles' issues and hopefully make it cross-platform then. They should also make progression both cross-gen and cross-platform, and extend it to the sequel. That would set-up the player base for For Honor 2.

AmonDarkGod
10-24-2019, 08:32 PM
That would explain why they released the 'complete' edition of this game around the beginning of this year.

A big however though, I doubt the franchise would die. Ubisoft said they wanted a fighting game in their list of genres so I'm sure For Honor 2 for next-gen is on the cards. They would probably port this game to next-gen and take advantage of the new technology to address the current consoles' issues and hopefully make it cross-platform then. They should also make progression both cross-gen and cross-platform, and extend it to the sequel. That would set-up the player base for For Honor 2.

I hear you. Well it is too soon to think about such things but still...

Soldier_of_Dawn
10-24-2019, 08:42 PM
People already play with mediocre rigs attached to mediocre monitors that are equivalent to consoles.

Like Knight mentioned above, you can cap the frame rate on pc to make that part fair.

However I don't see them doing or really want them to do this because I'd rather them make For Honor 2.

They wouldn't. For Honor 2 and a port of the current game to next-gen would make more business sense. As for cross-platform on current-gen, capping the framerate on PC wouldn't address the lag and connection issues that would occur. PC already has to deal with the 30FPS vs 60+FPS issue, and current-gen standard consoles can't handle 60FPS. Overall, the idea isn't realistic given both the timing and the technical issues to overcome.

CanadianSoupMan
10-24-2019, 10:18 PM
I'd love a FH2 even if they literally ported over FH1, made all lights in the game 500-600ms, made all bashes 500-700ms, slightly rebalanced feats, touched up some game modes, do a stamina rebalance, maybe add a new graphic thing makes everything feel shiny and new. Literally just a massive update with the game in the general area they want it to. Introduce a ton of minor tweaks like mentioned so it feels worth a new game.

Hormly
10-24-2019, 11:08 PM
So did I buddy boy. Doesn't mean I'm going to be a jerk about it and let the game die off because of entitlement.

Top players of the game actually share my sentiment and would gladly accept the cap as well.

Besides you said you quit playing so what do you care. You're just being argumentative.

Don't tread on me

FuncK_D
10-25-2019, 01:15 AM
FPS only makes things look smoother, it doesn't make your attacks or blocks faster because move timing is not tied to a clients frame rate data for clocking. If you had 300 FPS on console, you wouldn't suddenly be running around 10x faster. So capping FPS accomplishes nothing but making the game look worse if I am not mistaken. The difference between 30FPS and 60FPS is purely a visual reaction issue on a person by person basis, and well below For Honor's actual timing mechanics let alone being well below a normal persons reaction time of somewhere around 200+ ms.

Consoles have horrible input delay and connection latency, that is the issue and that's why it wouldn't work. Capping FPS for PC or increasing FPS on console does nothing to solve that.

I of course could be mistaken but pretty sure I'm not.

Cheers

ArchDukeInstinct
10-25-2019, 04:34 AM
This sounds absolutely horrendous.

I don't think the developers are going to be able to magically optimize the game for consoles so that it can run at the double the FPS reliably. So they will probably downgrade the graphics significantly. And for what? A couple more milliseconds to react that aren't going to help the average player anyway?

The FPS lock for PC is just insane. Why the need to lock the FPS anyway? It's not like they need to be similar for cross platform to work.There's already differences in frame rate between individual PCs in frame rate. What's the big deal? This is just ****ting on PC players for no real reason.

It's a large overhaul to make both versions objectively worse for a nearly 3 year old game. They should be focusing on a For Honor 2 instead for the upcoming generation of consoles and ray-tracing. This game's code base is almost certainly already crippled with technical debt from the big overhaul for servers, starting fresh makes a lot more sense.