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View Full Version : Oleg Maddox! A late THANK YOU!



WWMaxGunz
08-10-2005, 02:14 PM
So you know I noticed and am happy for the change;

Thank You Very Much for moving the gunsight on the P-47D-22!

The crosshair used to look right into the bird splitter post, center windshield and I knew
that was not right. How to aim on a plane the post covered over? I could not think that
they would have it that way in reality!

Then I see the sight is moved to the right some and made usable. Thankyou for that!

p1ngu666
08-10-2005, 02:18 PM
its always been like that?

MEGILE
08-10-2005, 02:30 PM
I dunno p1ngu.. it looks different. Maybe a placebo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

WWMaxGunz
08-10-2005, 03:19 PM
When the P-47's first came out in FB, the gunsights on the split windshield models
looked directly into the splitter when I played. I even posted about it way back.

MEGILE
08-10-2005, 04:02 PM
Are you talking about normal view, or Shift+F1 view?

VW-IceFire
08-10-2005, 05:54 PM
I hadn't noticed anything having been changed....what?

Buzzsaw-
08-10-2005, 06:00 PM
Salute

Icefire is correct, nothing has changed.

Max doesn't seem to pay attention to U.S. aircraft and whether they are modelled correctly.

It is no surprise that he hasn't noticed the Shift F1 view before.

Even with the Shift F1 view, the Razorback P-47 gunsight view is not correct. That is clear from the various photos which are available.

However, much like those who asked for a revised 190 view, I asked for a change, and provided photos, but Oleg said it was correct, so no point arguing.

The Razorback P-47's is the worst gunsight view in the game as far as deflection shooting is concerned.

new-fherathras
08-10-2005, 06:12 PM
i read the title abit fast and though it said.

(to the late: Oleg Maddox)

scared me abit there

TAGERT.
08-10-2005, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
So you know I noticed and am happy for the change;

Thank You Very Much for moving the gunsight on the P-47D-22!

The crosshair used to look right into the bird splitter post, center windshield and I knew
that was not right. How to aim on a plane the post covered over? I could not think that
they would have it that way in reality!

Then I see the sight is moved to the right some and made usable. Thankyou for that! Actully due to the way our eyes work, that bar wouldnt even bother you, in that when you focus beyond it, as you do when looking at an enmy aircraft out in front of you, the bar would appear to be transparent, i.e. dissapear.

As for the game, I just fired up 3.03m and 4.01 and there is no difference between the two in the forward view. Tooks some screen captures of it too, if you need them let me know and Ill post them. But, it would be better if you just fired up and old version and take note that they have not changed.

LeadSpitter_
08-11-2005, 12:53 AM
belated danke for the game.

dunno wtf hes talking about with p47d10 22 view tho which are the same

IIJG69_Kartofe
08-11-2005, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:

Even with the Shift F1 view, the Razorback P-47 gunsight view is not correct. That is clear from the various photos which are available.


The P47 got a "Bar" ??? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif


=====> I leave! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

p1ngu666
08-11-2005, 09:53 AM
its probably worse than the 190 view http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Nubarus
08-11-2005, 09:53 AM
Maybe MaxGunz is confused with CFS3, there the gunsight is in the middle straight in front of the bar.

In IL2 the gunsight has always been placed on the right side, as it should be.

Stigler_9_JG52
08-11-2005, 10:30 AM
TAGERT wrote:

Actully due to the way our eyes work, that bar wouldnt even bother you, in that when you focus beyond it, as you do when looking at an enmy aircraft out in front of you, the bar would appear to be transparent, i.e. dissapear.

In this case, in the case of the 109's Revi and in the case of the 190 pit overall, it is amazing how Oleg stubbornly clings to his "is right, be sure" stance, and refuses to take into account the effects of binocular vision. So, we have "physically correct" visual obstructions which, due to binocular vision, are not really factors. But because the sim doesn't do anything to deal with binocular vision, they become severe detriments to spotting and gunnery.

Way to go. Here's to good simulation. (/sarcasm)

WWMaxGunz
08-11-2005, 11:26 AM
I never had a copy of CFS3 or CFS2 and gave my one copy of CFS away as wasted time.

It's possible that the Shift-F1 makes the difference. I just clearly remember when the
P-47's first came out in FB that in the early models I was looking directly into the
bird splitter when I used the gunsight. I avoided those models pretty much since. But
for some test I ran, I noticed the crosshair being to the right of the splitter even if
the full reticle is not (so call it a sidebar an put some text in it) and hey I wanted
to say thanks for what I perceived as a change.

Does Shift-F1 in the P-47 produce a left-right POV move?

I don't run the sim much any more anyway, RL problems keep me from staying at it long
enough and steady enough and between some planes FM tweaks and some planes DM's I'm
hoping that when Oleg recovers there will be some overseeing of a general cleanup and
standardizing which may not be possible.

IIJG69_Kartofe
08-11-2005, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
its probably worse than the 190 view http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif


Boooarhhhff ... Whiiiiner! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

This is just a little bar with a big plexi sield before and some others bars, and bars ...

Pfff ... Piece of cake! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

TAGERT.
08-11-2005, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
TAGERT wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Actully due to the way our eyes work, that bar wouldnt even bother you, in that when you focus beyond it, as you do when looking at an enmy aircraft out in front of you, the bar would appear to be transparent, i.e. dissapear.

In this case, in the case of the 109's Revi and in the case of the 190 pit overall, it is amazing how Oleg stubbornly clings to his "is right, be sure" stance, and refuses to take into account the effects of binocular vision. So, we have "physically correct" visual obstructions which, due to binocular vision, are not really factors. But because the sim doesn't do anything to deal with binocular vision, they become severe detriments to spotting and gunnery.

Way to go. Here's to good simulation. (/sarcasm) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>glad to see your finally comming around, next thing you know you will be an advocate for implimeting LEAN! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WWMaxGunz
08-13-2005, 03:21 AM
Good one. I know any weapons I've used the sights on, I close one eye and look through
the sights with the other. Yes, I've used either eye with the M-16 in training when
firing around one side or the other of my cover so no lectures there. I spent years
shooting in the NRA when I was a kid too. I've fired just looking over barrels but
that wasn't using the gunsight.

Now tell me again just how that birdsplitter is just gonna disappear when I'm looking
through the gunsight.

Hey, I couldn't use the sight before and now I can. Thank you Oleg if there was a
change since the P-47's first came out. If not then hey, I'm doin sumthin diffrent.

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Good one. Agreed 100%


Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
I know any weapons I've used the sights on, I close one eye and look through the sights with the other. Yes, I've used either eye with the M-16 in training when firing around one side or the other of my cover so no lectures there. I spent years shooting in the NRA when I was a kid too. Than you should look into getting your money back! In that in all those years you didnt seem to realise that you close one eye to line up the rear sight with the front sight. Except for some early aircraft, there are NO FRONT SIGHTS!! They got rid of the frontsight rear sight and tube sight methods very early on in the war.. some kept a set as a backup.. But most got rid of those methods and replaced them with the rear sight with rings (measurements).


Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
I've fired just looking over barrels but that wasn't using the gunsight. Which is close to what your doing in an WWII aircraft. Excpet that your part of the barrel in a since and that you do have a rear sight with measurements on it.. ie rings.


Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Now tell me again just how that birdsplitter is just gonna disappear when I'm looking through the gunsight. I could, but clearly if you didn't understand it the 1st time I don't think just saying it again will help you the 2nd time. But, I can tell you how to prove it to yourself! Find something in the distance.. Say the door knob on the door of your bedroom.. Make sure it is about 5 feet away from you.. Now close your LEFT eye and hold up your thumb at arms length.. now place your thumb in such a manor as to block your view of the door knob.. i.e. place your thumb somewhere along your line-of-sight between your RIGHT eye and the door knob.. Now without moving.. close your RIGHT eye and open your LEFT eye.. Did you notice how the door knob seem to jump to the left of your thumb? Now don't be a scared.. That is not black magic that caused the door knob to move! This is just an example of bi-focal vision of predators! Now, do the same set up again, but this time keep your RIGHT eye open as you open your LEFT eye.. Notice how you can see THROUGH your thumb to see the door knob behind your thumb! Neat aint it! The hard part of this test is to stay focued on the door knob!! In that if you start focusing on your thumb.. your thumb will become LESS transparent and make it harder for you too see the door knob.. But if you stay focused on the door knob, you will *notice* your thumb.. but it will be transparent looking. In the senario I just described, your thumb is playing the part of the bird splitter, you eyes are playing the part of your eyes, and the door knob is playing the part of the enemy aircraft out in front of your plane. You SAVVY?


Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Hey, I couldn't use the sight before and now I can. So what has changed? In that the game has not, so you must have changed? Isnt learning fun! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Thank you Oleg if there was a change since the P-47's first came out. If not then hey, I'm doin sumthin diffrent. The later, be sure.

WWMaxGunz
08-13-2005, 10:09 AM
A) WWII AC gunsights do require being lined up and using one eye to sight through.

B) Yes I do understand binocular vision as some of my posts about canopy posts showed.

C) You actually **can't** admit when you're wrong.

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
A) WWII AC gunsights do require being lined up and using one eye to sight through. Disagree!


Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
B) Yes I do understand binocular vision as some of my posts about canopy posts showed. Well, now you do for sure! And your welcome!


Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
C) You actually **can't** admit when you're wrong. Disagree!



As for people who can not admit they are wrong.. Here is an example, if I said "Thank you to Oleg for moving the sight" and found out later I was wrong.. I would have said something like...


What tagert would say:
DOH! Sorry, your right!

Where as someone who can not admit they were wrong would say something like this..


example of someone who can not admit they are wrong:
Thank you Oleg if there was a change since the P-47's first came out. If not then hey, I'm doin sumthin diffrent.

Note how this person still trys to leave the door open that *maybe* the sim did change, but, also tosses in catch all statment that there is a possibility that maybe.. just maybe it is something they are doing wrong.. But they never actually admits to making a mistake!! SAVVY?

LEBillfish
08-13-2005, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by TAGERT.:
I could, but clearly if you didn't understand it the 1st time I don't think just saying it again will help you the 2nd time. But, I can tell you how to prove it to yourself! Find something in the distance.. Say the door knob on the door of your bedroom.. Make sure it is about 5 feet away from you.. Now close your LEFT eye and hold up your thumb at arms length.. now place your thumb in such a manor as to block your view of the door knob.. i.e. place your thumb somewhere along your line-of-sight between your RIGHT eye and the door knob.. Now without moving.. close your RIGHT eye and open your LEFT eye.. Did you notice how the door knob seem to jump to the left of your thumb? Now don't be a scared.. That is not black magic that caused the door knob to move! This is just an example of bi-focal vision of predators! Now, do the same set up again, but this time keep your RIGHT eye open as you open your LEFT eye.. Notice how you can see THROUGH your thumb to see the door knob behind your thumb! Neat aint it! The hard part of this test is to stay focued on the door knob!! In that if you start focusing on your thumb.. your thumb will become LESS transparent and make it harder for you too see the door knob.. But if you stay focused on the door knob, you will *notice* your thumb.. but it will be transparent looking. In the senario I just described, your thumb is playing the part of the bird splitter, you eyes are playing the part of your eyes, and the door knob is playing the part of the enemy aircraft out in front of your plane. You SAVVY?

Interesting....Though in trying to be cute you muddled yourself abit. First off, this has nothing to do with "bi-focal vision of predators!"......where you even came up with that term beyond me.

It is quite simply demonstrating a "dominant eye" The dominant one seeming to keep the object in place, the less it seeming to be shifted over, so if you leave both open you will seem to have two images of a "close" object if focused beyond due to the distance between your eyes. The farther the object focused on the more apart the two images become, as your eyes cross less and less the further out you look.

That degree of crossing somehow calculated in our brains is what gives you "depth perception" and the ability to judge distance.

However, never will the image of the less dominant eye become completely "transparent", more so the view of the dominant eye will seem the same.....Quite simply, it is nothing more then a blending of the two images, the brain merging the two into one and the way it resolves this is by showing you via making the images of the close object semi-transparent the opposite eye actually looking around it, offset to the side.

The close object does NOT disappear or vanish in the image, it simply gets ignored. The lack of ignoring it or even subconsciously being distracted by it is one explanation for contributing to poor aim/missed shots/poor judgment of distance.

In FB the "shift f1" command clearly meant to imply either looking straight ahead ignoring the sight, or focusing through it with a dominant eye (hence right shift which is most common in people). Naturally, since one can never tell where the player is looking, there is no translucent to even transparent effect made in the sim to demonstrate the above.

As to MaxGuns memory as to the gunsite location and obstructing objects in P47's (the Razorback worse if I recall), he is right. Though I cannot recall when things changed as that is how it was in the original FB. As to when my guess would be somewhere in either the 1.X series of patches, perhaps 2.X at best having deliberately avoided flying the P47 for that reason as well as the poor FM back in 1.0.

Now, do "you" SAVVY?

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Interesting.... Agreed 100%


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Though in trying to be cute you muddled yourself abit. Disagree, I'm very cute and did not muddle anything.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
First off, this has nothing to do with "bi-focal vision of predators!" Disagree 100%


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
......where you even came up with that term beyond me. It is a very common term, do a goggle on it and you will *see* what I'm talking about.. Pun intended!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=bifocal+vision...redators&btnG=Search (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=bifocal+vision+of+predators&btnG=Search)

As you can see, very common, but I did make one mistake, I did spell it wrong, I should have said "bifocal" not "bi-focal", please forgive me if that confused you! And if you feel the need to press charges, please contact my lawyer! See, still cute! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
It is quite simply demonstrating a "dominant eye" The dominant one seeming to keep the object in place, the less it seeming to be shifted over, So?


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
so if you leave both open you will seem to have two images of a "close" object if focused beyond due to the distance between your eyes. The farther the object focused on the more apart the two images become, as your eyes cross less and less the further out you look. Agreed, that is how bi-foc.. I mean bifocal vision works.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
That degree of crossing somehow calculated in our brains is what gives you "depth perception" and the ability to judge distance. Bingo!


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
However, never will the image of the less dominant eye become completely "transparent", more so the view of the dominant eye will seem the same.....Quite simply, it is nothing more then a blending of the two images, the brain merging the two into one and the way it resolves this is by showing you via making the images of the close object semi-transparent the opposite eye actually looking around it, offset to the side. Exactly! I guess I should have been a little more cute? And expanded on that part where I said "don't be ah scared, it is not magic" in that I thought I made that clear. Sorry if I confused anyone into thinking our eyes had some magic power to actually remove mater from objects we look at to make them transparent! They don't! But the effect of bifocal vision does make to *look* that way.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
The close object does NOT disappear or vanish in the image, it simply gets ignored. Exactly! Again, sorry if I confused you and you thought I was actually saying that we all had superman like X-RAY eyes! My Bad! I guess I assumed too much to expect everyone to know that I was talking about how the EFFECT of bifocal vision just makes it appear to be transparent, and not actually disappearing!


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
The lack of ignoring it or even subconsciously being distracted by it is one explanation for contributing to poor aim/missed shots/poor judgment of distance. Disagree.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
In FB the "shift f1" command clearly meant to imply either looking straight ahead ignoring the sight, or focusing through it with a dominant eye (hence right shift which is most common in people). No, the "shift f1" command is typically used to simulate the FACT that many aircraft actually did offset the gun sight to the right a bit, like in Lw aircraft, and others didn't, they left it centered.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Naturally, since one can never tell where the player is looking, there is no translucent to even transparent effect made in the sim to demonstrate the above. Disagree, in that since the FOV is limited to about 30? instead of our real world peripheral view of about 120?+ it is safe to assume that the sim pilot is looking at near center, thus the game does know where the sim pilot is looking and therefore could make vertical bars appear semi-transparent near the center of the current view.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
As to MaxGuns memory as to the gunsite location and obstructing objects in P47's (the Razorback worse if I recall), he is right. Not true, in that the game has not changed. Go back and fire up an old version of IL2FB and you will *see* for yourself.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Though I cannot recall when things changed as that is how it was in the original FB. You can not recall, because it has not changed.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
As to when my guess would be somewhere in either the 1.X series of patches, perhaps 2.X at best having deliberately avoided flying the P47 for that reason as well as the poor FM back in 1.0. Key word here being guess


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Now, do "you" SAVVY? Yes! And what I SAVVY is that you have said nothing that I didn't all ready say, except to point out that we have a dormant eye tendency. You stared off like you were going to prove that, but the only examples you provided were about how bifocal vision works, not about how we favor one eye over another. Nice try though! Send me your address and Ill send you a box of gold stars to stick on your fridge.

And just to be clear..

PLEASE! NO ONE QUIT YOUR DAY JOB!

You can not take the method I described about seeing through your thumb to see the door knob and try and turn in into some magic act that you can take on the road to make money! Your eyes do NOT have the power to make things disappear! Nobody around you will see your thumb turn transparent! Only you are seeing what appears to be a thumb disappearing due to the effect of "bifocal vision of predators"!

Sorry if that was confusing for some of you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

LEBillfish
08-13-2005, 01:42 PM
*Yawns*........re-read your post I quoted, if you stated anything I had you have a strange way of putting it...and obviously though I thought I had more time to waste here then anyone else...There my only error as you seem to have much more so perhaps devote a bit more time researching your attempts at hammering others then trying to be cute to distract them from your obviously poor and self fulfilling delivery http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

as you see, I do Savvy....Savvy?

As for FB making objects transparent in a 30 degree FOV I say again......The sim cannot determine if you are looking as far as the sight, the canopy, the prop, or the distant plane/object.....So how would it know what to make "transparent/lucent" or out of focus? WHy it's called a 2d picture as it only simulates 3d.

It wouldn't....and as soon as any of those items is, then the call for "hey, I was looking at that" would be made.

Savvy?

x__CRASH__x
08-13-2005, 02:07 PM
I savvy your savvy being savvy.

I also savvy that Tagert is being a pain in the ar$e. Although Max was wrong in that the sim hasn't changed in that respect, and that you don't NEED to sight with one eye in WWII aircraft, no matter what Hollywood movie says otherwise. Rifles and aircraft should not be compared, as they are not used in the same way.

savvy

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
I savvy your savvy being savvy.

I also savvy that Tagert is being a pain in the ar$e. Although Max was wrong in that the sim hasn't changed in that respect, and that you don't NEED to sight with one eye in WWII aircraft, no matter what Hollywood movie says otherwise. Rifles and aircraft should not be compared, as they are not used in the same way.

savvy Bingo!

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
*Yawns* Boord so soon? Guess I gave you too much credit?


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
........re-read your post I quoted, if you stated anything I had you have a strange way of putting it... Disagree, in that you started off stating that it has nothing to do with it and something to do with *our* tendency to favor one side over another, i.e. right handed vs. left handed. Yet your definition had nothing to do with out tendency to favor one eye over another and simply expanded on how bifocal vision works.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
and obviously though I thought I had more time to waste here then anyone else...There my only error as you seem to have much more so Gee.. what is this emptiness I feel in my chest? How shall I ever face the day.. Billfish does not approve of me or my time usage.. Boo Hoo, I feel so empty inside.. Poor me.. Poor me.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
perhaps devote a bit more time researching your attempts at hammering others then trying to be cute to distract them from your obviously poor and self fulfilling delivery http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif What ever!, But leave knowing this, you provided nothing to the topic at hand and especially nothing to show where my research was lacking.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
as you see, I do Savvy....Savvy? If it makes you *feel* better to belive that, by all means belive away! In that I could care less about what you think of.. of.. as a mater of fact I don't care about anything that floats around between your ears.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
As for FB making objects transparent in a 30 degree FOV I say again......The sim cannot determine if you are looking as far as the sight, the canopy, the prop, or the distant plane/object.....So how would it know what to make "transparent/lucent" or out of focus? WHy it's called a 2d picture as it only simulates 3d. It wouldn't....and as soon as any of those items is, then the call for "hey, I was looking at that" would be made. That re-iterate what you all ready said with no further proof might fly in your world, but not mine. When I answered your question, I explained how the sim would know *where* your looking. As in the direction your looking. But, reading your last paragraph I see where your confused. Allow me to clear it up for you. The topic at hand, i.e. prior to you stating the obvious about the tendency to favor one hand/eye over another was about how bifocal vision works to make solid objects, like cockpit bars, appear to be transparent when your looking beyond them an enemy aircraft. So far so good? Ok, It is clear to me in your last statement that your including focus into the topic now. Of course the flight sim does NOT know *where* your focusing on, which is why EVERYTHING IS IN FOCUS ALL THE TIME! That is a DUH limitation of flight sims for some time now, thus, it kind of goes without saying, but, clearly it needs to be said to you! So, excluding focus, the sim does know *where* your looking *direction* wise, thus it could simply make cockpit bars near center appear transparent. You still with me? But, I personally would just make all cockpit bars within the 2D view semi-transparent.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Savvy? Oh I savy.. that you in way over your head!

PS I noticed a few things..

I noticed that you had not comment on the fact that "bi-focal vision of predators" statement is common.. thus your statement of.. how did you say it?

"where you even came up with that term beyond me"

Thus if that is beyond you, don't you think you should take your own advice and.. how did you say it?

"perhaps devote a bit more time researching your attempts at hammering others then trying to be cute to distract them from your obviously poor and self fulfilling delivery http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif"

Is it safe to assume that the google link caused you to re-think it and thus stfu about it so as not to admit you were wrong?

I also noticed you have not said anything with regards to firing up the old version of IL2 to *see* that nothing has changed.

You poor thing.. I shouold really go easy on you.. I hear you have a short fuse and could fly off the handle in a hart beat. Ill try and go easy on you in the future!

LEBillfish
08-13-2005, 02:47 PM
zzzzzZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzz......

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
zzzzzZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzz...... Chicks just cant handle the smoke!

PS is this the point where you run off to try and get the thread locked to stop people from pointing out how wrong you are?

LEBillfish
08-13-2005, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
zzzzzZZZZzzzzzZZZZZzzzz...... Chicks just cant handle the smoke!

PS is this the point where you run off to try and get the thread locked to stop people from pointing out how wrong you are? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry Tagert, yet I have no interest in wasting my time responding to your every petty effort to cover your 6 by quoting everyone else's posts and trying to flip it about to imply that "we finally got it".....Where clearly you still do not.

You've no doubt enjoyed your little run of quoting and posting "between the lines" yet have still failed to "read between the lines" the intent of "correcting you". It has nothing to do with views, nor what changes with viewpoints, more so though this concept will really lose you, 'you"....Quite simply it deals with what does matter here....Read deeper, pause a moment, put on your little thinking cap and wait before rambling off a stream of nods and one liners instead of trying to figure it out.

Doubt you'll get it.....but is expected. Savvy?

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 08:39 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Sorry Tagert, Ok, I forgive you.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
yet I have no interest in wasting my time responding to your every petty effort to cover your 6 by quoting everyone else's posts and trying to flip it about to imply that "we finally got it".....Where clearly you still do not. Clearly.. in your mind.. but not clear enough to be able to explain it? A lot of people think they know it.. Until it comes time to put up or shut up. Prob is that instead of shutting up some people try avoid it by starting a tangent topic. Fact is you have yet to prove anything, except that you don't know what you talking about. In that you state one thing, yet give the definition of another, TOO FUNNY Yet, you felt the need to reply with nothing new to say, nothing to support you claims, thus you do feel the need to waste your time. Typical!


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
You've no doubt enjoyed your little run of quoting and posting "between the lines" yet have still failed to "read between the lines" the intent of "correcting you". LOL! Actually reading between the lines is EXACTLY why you got the initial response from me that you did!


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
It has nothing to do with views, nor what changes with viewpoints, more so though this concept will really lose you, 'you".... Maybe.. but one thing for sure, it wouldn't be from anything you presented!


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Quite simply it deals with what does matter here....Read deeper, pause a moment, put on your little thinking cap and wait before rambling off a stream of nods and one liners instead of trying to figure it out. Again, I got *it* from the get go! But what you and many other fail to realize is I don't give a rat ar$$e about what you think of me or what I say. Thus your knee jerk response to feel the need to come to Maxxes aid is funny.. Because what you tried to do to me you got back ten fold.


Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Doubt you'll get it.....but is expected. Savvy? SAVVY! As in I realize that you can dish it out, but can not take it!

LEBillfish
08-13-2005, 08:50 PM
*yawns*......Thank you so much Tagert for continually bumping a thank you thread to Oleg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif....As no doubt he'll not read much farther then the first post....I always knew down deep you were a fanboy.

hehe...Good Job http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TAGERT.
08-13-2005, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
*yawns*......Thank you so much Tagert for continually bumping a thank you thread to Oleg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif....As no doubt he'll not read much farther then the first post....I always knew down deep you were a fanboy.

hehe...Good Job http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif For a busy girl who cant find the time to explane herself, you sure seem to waisting time hanging on my every word!

Thanks for proving me right.. In that it has nothing to do with you NOT having time for it.. Just that you dont have the ablity for it!

WWMaxGunz
08-14-2005, 01:48 AM
Sorry Crash, but looking *through* an iron sight with both eyes will result in inaccurate
shots. Looking *over* the sight works okay and in a fast situation or when firing long
bursts, that's the way to go at it.

As for WWII fighter sights in general, most either use a tube or are revi/reflector types
that hey, the sight is ONLY good for one eye positioned along or near a line directly back
from the sight glass. Those are extra good because if your head is not quite lined up, the
crosshairs appear off center in a way that still allows you to shoot. The tube type sights
also enforce lining up the shooters vision across the line of fire and nope, don't work
through both eyes.

I know what. You guys go dig up a pilots manual for a P-47 and see where the gunnery part
says keep both eyes open. Till then, I'll stick with what shooters do. Close in, you don't
need the sights. I wrote only about looking through the sight.

Tagert trying his usual wants me to thank him for something I learned back in the mid 60's?
Only thing I learned is how big a pile a little bit of manure gets... so far. If I could
only package the stuff I could keep a plant nursery in fertilizer.

TAGERT.
08-14-2005, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Sorry Crash, but looking *through* an iron sight with both eyes will result in inaccurate
shots. Looking *over* the sight works okay and in a fast situation or when firing long
bursts, that's the way to go at it.

As for WWII fighter sights in general, most either use a tube or are revi/reflector types
that hey, the sight is ONLY good for one eye positioned along or near a line directly back
from the sight glass. Those are extra good because if your head is not quite lined up, the
crosshairs appear off center in a way that still allows you to shoot. The tube type sights
also enforce lining up the shooters vision across the line of fire and nope, don't work
through both eyes.

I know what. You guys go dig up a pilots manual for a P-47 and see where the gunnery part
says keep both eyes open. Till then, I'll stick with what shooters do. Close in, you don't
need the sights. I wrote only about looking through the sight.

Tagert trying his usual wants me to thank him for something I learned back in the mid 60's?
Only thing I learned is how big a pile a little bit of manure gets... so far. If I could
only package the stuff I could keep a plant nursery in fertilizer. Nice try, but you are a NO GO at this station!

CRASH summed it up nicely, in that he is RIGHT about you being WRONG in trying to compare shooting rifles to using gunsights on an aircraft to shoot. Except for the early ones that had the TUBE sights and iron sights with a front and rear sight.. But those were the exceptions to the rule and were done away with early on in the war.

You and Billfish are in error with regards to the whole shift-f1 thing and I think it is the main source of error for both of you. Espically for Billfish. She must only fly the 109, 190, and 262 to be so cluless to think that only purpose of the shift-f1 was to mimic the DOMINANT EYE tendancys. FACT is most planes put the sight dead center, thus not favoring either eye, only the Lw offset their sight slightly to the right to favor the right eye. I guess billfish never flys anything but Lw planes.. Which explains alot imho!

Thus billfish never realised that shift-f1 on all other planes causes the pilot POV shifting forward and backwards (lean foward/backwards), where as in the 109, 190, 262 it causes the pilot shifthing his POV to the right (leaning right/left), to account for the fact that the gun sight is not dead center, and offset to the right to favor the right eye. In that the master race figured most were right handed, thus would favor thier right eye.

That inital error by billfish set in motion all her other errors which add up to the following

1) The purpose of shfit-f1 is for doment eye. (it is not)
2) The statement "bifocal vision of predators" is not real (it is, it is just "beyond her")
3) The P47 view has not changed since day one (Maxx's & billfishes error)
4) That the games does not know where the player is looking. (it does)

There may be more, but those were her mistakes, where number 1 was the main source of her error that factored into everything else she tried to say. Had she realised that before she tried to be cute about me being cute she could have saved herself alot of imbarsment. But, on the bright side, she has now learned someting about bifocal vision of predators and that it has nothing to do with the doment eye, i.e. she was not only wrong, but 180? wrong.

PS as for having a problem admting your wrong, why dont you do as you did the last time you were wrong and dont admit it, just thank me if it has changed, and if not than at least admit that maybe.. just maybe it is due to something your doing *different*

LEBillfish
08-14-2005, 10:40 AM
No, I simply do not want to be the "bigger fool" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TAGERT.
08-14-2005, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
No, I simply do not want to be the "bigger fool" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Too Late! You got that award from the get go! DOMINANT EYE! ROTFLMAO!

Hoarmurath
08-14-2005, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
No, I simply do not want to be the "bigger fool" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Don't worry, you have a long way before having a chance of being a bigger one than Tagert...

TAGERT.
08-14-2005, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
Don't worry, you have a long way before having a chance of being a bigger one than Tagert... Hoarmurath! The out-of-context poster boy, how you doing buddy? You feeling ok? Use to be it only took you a few hours to chime in, this one took you a whole day! What gives? Not feeling well? You poor thing, tell you what next time Ill just PM you!

So, is this a new friendship made in heaven? The new three stooges.. Max, Billfish, and Hoarmurath? Well, they are funny enough! All in good company! All of the same caliber! All pulling the same party line! Glad I could bring you all together like this! Enjoy! Maxx, you must be so proud! ROTFL!

TSmoke
08-14-2005, 07:43 PM
YIKES !!!!!!!

This place is worse than a day care for pre school age children.

WWMaxGunz
08-14-2005, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
No, I simply do not want to be the "bigger fool" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Not a chance of that.

I'm done with it. If Tagert wants to turn this into a Special Olympics race then he wins
by default of being the only qualified runner.

I guess I get second place for wasting my time, again.

LEBillfish
08-14-2005, 10:43 PM
Well bigger fool as in "Who is the bigger fool, the fool or the one that argues with him".....Think the "Google education" gave him away http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif So going too before Wikpedia is quoted http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

faustnik
08-15-2005, 01:18 AM
This is definately a tough crowd. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Neal,

Next time you better email the thank you to Oleg. That way you can skip the critical analysis of your thank you message.

WWMaxGunz
08-15-2005, 03:11 AM
I expect some over-critical, after all what forum is this?
I could write anything and it would be called wrong by someone.

However, the point is to place something positive because I noticed a change I hadn't
expected back when I wasn't so happy with the view. Back then I posted that no way they
would stick the gunsight smack in front of that rib.

EDIT: This way I make the Thank You public.

Try sticking your thumb up at arm's length and focussing on something distant while lining
your thumb up directly below it. Use two eyes and ummmm, which thumb do you line up?
Close one eye and there's no problem since it's possible now. Or be like some jerks and
close both eyes and most important, your mind while thinking up a suitably idiotic reply.
Except that you and MOST members here aren't like that.

TAGERT.
08-15-2005, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
No, I simply do not want to be the "bigger fool" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Not a chance of that.

I'm done with it. If Tagert wants to turn this into a Special Olympics race then he wins
by default of being the only qualified runner.

I guess I get second place for wasting my time, again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Only thing special here is the way you admit your were wrong! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WWMaxGunz
08-15-2005, 10:24 PM
Wrong about what? MAYBE I didn't try Shift-F1 and MAYBE that would have worked.

Dude, you have a real problem. Take a hike.

TAGERT.
08-15-2005, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Wrong about what? That the view in the P47 has changed.


Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
MAYBE I didn't try Shift-F1 and MAYBE that would have worked.

Dude, you have a real problem. Take a hike. LOL! Now it is *maybe*? Too funny! Peddel that bike in reverse any faster and your going to get your pant leg caught in the chain again! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif