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View Full Version : Why not get rid of back roll all together?



CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-09-2019, 04:11 AM
It has nothing to do with fighting and everything to do with retreating. Just a thought.

Valoredramack
09-09-2019, 05:36 AM
Removing the back roll sounds like a terrible idea, if you're looking for less functionality you might want to stick with 2D fighting games or something. One of the key reasons why For Honor is unique as a fighting platform is because it offers a dynamic in which freedom of movement is a significant factor in close quarters.

Being able to bait an opponent is also related to combat, which involves managing space between you and your opponent, so the back roll serves more purposes then simply attempting to retreat. Not to mention that even in real-world warfare, retreating is still a valid tactical decision, so it doesn't even matter if the back roll is used for such a purpose because it's fair game in a combat situation.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-09-2019, 06:37 AM
Dude chill it was only a suggestion and your opinions aren't the only ones that matter.

Valoredramack
09-09-2019, 06:54 AM
Dude chill it was only a suggestion and your opinions aren't the only ones that matter.

I didn't say that only my opinions matter so what are you even talking about?

When you post a topic on a gaming forum in the General Discussion page, don't get defensive just because a player replies with their disagreement to your suggestion.

Just as it's fair game for players to back roll, it's also fair game for players to respond to forum threads; which is the whole point of "General Discussion."

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-09-2019, 07:44 AM
I didn't say that only my opinions matter so what are you even talking about?

When you post a topic on a gaming forum in the General Discussion page, don't get defensive just because a player replies with their disagreement to your suggestion.

Just as it's fair game for players to back roll, it's also fair game for players to respond to forum threads; which is the whole point of "General Discussion."

Dude you started by belittling me then proceed as if what you're saying is fact. Spacing has back dodge and rolling away isn't baiting it's trying to opt out of combos imo. It's a retreat to reset the fight.

Valoredramack
09-09-2019, 08:16 AM
Dude you started by belittling me

You think that I belittled you in my first post? All I did was equate less functionality to 2D gaming; it's merely the suggestion that I objected to, which isn't the same thing as belittling. It wasn't intended to be taken personally.

But if you're going to go "Full Millennial" on me, then I'll try to use a more saccharine analogy next time. In any case, I already disagreed with the idea of removing the back roll so I have nothing further to say on this topic.

Haplo_Bane
09-09-2019, 08:26 AM
I mainly play dominion. In Australia,most players treat dominion as skirmish,with zones treated as an afterthought. A good example is : We have no zones,I'll position myself in a zone(instead of mindlessly fighting the first person I see. I'll be fighting someone 1v1 and have the advantage. I notice 2 of my teammates rushing from behind me. Now I've played enough to know what's going to happen next. 9/10 times they come flailing in,eager for the kill. Usually I'll get hit from behind from my own teammate,they'll activate revenge and fight that would of been over in 5 seconds now turns into an unnecessary sh*tshow. All the while they still have the other 2 zones. 3 years later it's still very very common. I NEED backroll. Because now when I see this coming, I can back roll out, leave my 2 or 3 teammates to kill 1 person,and go get another zone , so we at least have a chance of winning. Also when someone tries to engage me in a fight outside a zone ( again this only applies when you only have 1 or 0 zones ) I can use the backroll to escape and get in a zone,then start fighting. To me, with no backroll, dominion would just be skirmish with zones as an afterthought. With less maps. BTW skirmish is my favorite mode,but no one plays it. Yet they play skirmish in dominion. It makes no sense to me. Skirmish has sooooo many more better maps. People.

Haplo_Bane
09-09-2019, 08:31 AM
Maybe have it disabled in duels? It does seem to serve no function in that mode.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-09-2019, 08:54 AM
You think that I belittled you in my first post? All I did was equate less functionality to 2D gaming; it's merely the suggestion that I objected to, which isn't the same thing as belittling. It wasn't intended to be taken personally.

But if you're going to go "Full Millennial" on me, then I'll try to use a more saccharine analogy next time. In any case, I already disagreed with the idea of removing the back roll so I have nothing further to say on this topic.

I can see why youre in favor of back roll.

Valoredramack
09-09-2019, 09:42 AM
I can see why youre in favor of back roll.

I'm quite confident that the majority of the players are in favor of keeping the back roll. Removing such a basic maneuver would only cause more outrage toward Ubisoft.

Goat_of_Vermund
09-09-2019, 10:52 AM
Just ignore him, he is too full of himself to have any point reacting to him.

By the way, I don't agree on removing backroll, it is nerfed significantly and the stamina cost is high, and it is a needed spacing tool in 4v4.

Hormly
09-09-2019, 03:31 PM
"full millennial"

Ha I'm using this term

DeamonXII
09-09-2019, 05:55 PM
and bamm warden will become more OP

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-09-2019, 07:25 PM
I mainly play dominion. In Australia,most players treat dominion as skirmish,with zones treated as an afterthought. A good example is : We have no zones,I'll position myself in a zone(instead of mindlessly fighting the first person I see. I'll be fighting someone 1v1 and have the advantage. I notice 2 of my teammates rushing from behind me. Now I've played enough to know what's going to happen next. 9/10 times they come flailing in,eager for the kill. Usually I'll get hit from behind from my own teammate,they'll activate revenge and fight that would of been over in 5 seconds now turns into an unnecessary sh*tshow. All the while they still have the other 2 zones. 3 years later it's still very very common. I NEED backroll. Because now when I see this coming, I can back roll out, leave my 2 or 3 teammates to kill 1 person,and go get another zone , so we at least have a chance of winning. Also when someone tries to engage me in a fight outside a zone ( again this only applies when you only have 1 or 0 zones ) I can use the backroll to escape and get in a zone,then start fighting. To me, with no backroll, dominion would just be skirmish with zones as an afterthought. With less maps. BTW skirmish is my favorite mode,but no one plays it. Yet they play skirmish in dominion. It makes no sense to me. Skirmish has sooooo many more better maps. People.
I see your point. My query then is the flip side of what you need. Are these benefits that are negatives to your opposing balanced?

I bought this topic up because it is simply to difficult to force an engagement on a retreating enemy. While I believe an assassin should probably have the mobility some heavy, hybrids, and vanguards should not. Mind you my belief is merely my stance in this post as I'm still up in the air about the whole thing. I'm just creating a counter argument.
Why is it that heros have more of an ability to disengage than the ability to hunt/persue? Sure some heros can hunt well like Shamon but why can't the others track prey well? Shouldn't all heros have the ability to counter back roll if all heros have backroll?

Tunatun
09-09-2019, 08:27 PM
kek wut? I main warden so yeah, back rolling is the only thing that will counter mind game of "what level of sb this warden will use?" roll back will deny lvl 1-3 sb. it's expensive, sure, but it's better to be safe than suffer sb-double tab-sb-double tap-sblvl2-double tap(even i hate that thing).

ArchDukeInstinct
09-10-2019, 05:37 AM
Removing the back roll sounds like a terrible idea, if you're looking for less functionality you might want to stick with 2D fighting games or something. One of the key reasons why For Honor is unique as a fighting platform is because it offers a dynamic in which freedom of movement is a significant factor in close quarters.

Sounds like just a bunch of buzz words to me.

We need back roll to stay in as an easy way out of mixups because it offers a "dynamic"? Like what does that even mean?

For Honor isn't unique because it has a back roll movement option. That's ridiculous.

Also your inference that 2d fighting games automatically have less depth and somehow easier to play simply because it's not 3d is bizarre as well.


But if you're going to go "Full Millennial" on me, then I'll try to use a more saccharine analogy next time. In any case, I already disagreed with the idea of removing the back roll so I have nothing further to say on this topic.

Watch out! We got a boomer over here with a thesaurus.

Haplo_Bane
09-10-2019, 06:00 AM
That's actually a really good idea CrimsonMonkey. It easily makes sense that an assassin can escape easier and a heavy pretty much has to stay. And also,of course an assassin should logically be better at nailing that escaping guy than the others (yea,that warden WILL get ya) It would also go a little way to giving the different classes their identity back. Noice.

Valoredramack
09-10-2019, 07:28 AM
Sounds like just a bunch of buzz words to me.

We need back roll to stay in as an easy way out of mixups because it offers a "dynamic"? Like what does that even mean?

If you're having trouble with Tier 2 common core vocabulary then I suggest taking additional English classes because I haven't said anything that requires Tier 3 reading comprehension. I have already dumbed down my natural style of dialogue so that even most of the people on these forums can understand the points that I have been raising.

You are also also woefully mistaken in assuming that I am a Boomer. I am a Xenniel, which means that I born at the tail end of Generation X (Latchkey Kids) and at the cusp of Generation Y (Millennial). Having grown up with the Gen X mentality and culture, I am not so easily offended by disparagement from anonymous, faceless, online trolls. Being overly sensitive to ridicule is a well-known Millennial attribute as well as a symptom of "Category 5" narcissism.

In any case, my point that it makes no sense to remove the back roll; it's not even that effective for escape because as someone pointed out:
all heroes will simply catch you.


rolling in the game is useless

ArchDukeInstinct
09-10-2019, 08:49 AM
If you're having trouble with Tier 2 common core vocabulary then I suggest taking additional English classes because I haven't said anything that requires Tier 3 reading comprehension. I have already dumbed down my natural style of dialogue so that even most of the people on these forums can understand the points that I have been raising.

Jeez Valored, all I can do in response to that is to thank you for enlightening us plebs on this forum with your quality insight. I know it can't be easy to look back and forth between your dollar store thesaurus and the typewriter while constantly adjusting your trifocals.


Having grown up with the Gen X mentality and culture, I am not so easily offended by disparagement from anonymous, faceless, online trolls. Being overly sensitive to ridicule is a well-known Millennial attribute as well as a symptom of "Category 5" narcissism.

Thanks for boomersplaining how anonymous, faceless, online trolls get under your skin, guy who is equally anonymous, faceless, and online.


In any case, my point that it makes no sense to remove the back roll; it's not even that effective for escape because as someone pointed out:

Actually, I would posit that something being ineffective would be a perfect reason to get rid of it.

Goat_of_Vermund
09-10-2019, 09:47 AM
Am I really the only one who put him on the ignore list?

ArchDukeInstinct
09-10-2019, 10:11 AM
Can't believe I missed this gem the first time around


I have already dumbed down my natural style of dialogue so that even most of the people on these forums can understand the points that I have been raising


a symptom of "Category 5" narcissism

rottmeister
09-10-2019, 10:47 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/UlqLDtI8Qc0j6/giphy.gif


Am I really the only one who put him on the ignore list?
No you're not. But sometimes, depending on my mood I click on "view post". You can see his quotes in other people's posts anyway and boi is it getting spicy now.

Oh and @topic:
I think removing back rolls is a bad idea. Escape mechanics have already been nerfed massively. It would buff quite a few characters that don't need buffing *cough* Warden *cough* (rolling away from him still works as long as he doesn't anticipate it and feints into dash heavy. I just think more heroes need a roll catcher. You can't really call Hitokiri's dash heavy a roll catcher, you will nearly always come up too short)

Sorry that my post isn't exactly detailed, but I mainly came for the drama. Have been way more active in Discord \_(ツ)_/

Goat_of_Vermund
09-10-2019, 11:27 AM
I admit, I sometimes watch him, it is very amusing how peacock-like he is once you distance yourself from him.


I was never bothered by rolls, mainly because they don't really help against my mains and are just a waste of stamina. It is not a strong mech anyway now.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-10-2019, 05:41 PM
That's actually a really good idea CrimsonMonkey. It easily makes sense that an assassin can escape easier and a heavy pretty much has to stay. And also,of course an assassin should logically be better at nailing that escaping guy than the others (yea,that warden WILL get ya) It would also go a little way to giving the different classes their identity back. Noice.

All I've done is point out a possible discrepancy but thanks.

Velentix
09-11-2019, 01:55 AM
I would keep the back roll in, simply due to situations where you are out numbered. In duels I'd still keep it, but maybe give some better chasing moves that can be used on a read, if you think they will back roll.

Boomsticklin
09-11-2019, 02:08 AM
Gotta have that back roll to retreat from those 3 to 1 fights

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
09-11-2019, 02:54 AM
Gotta have that back roll to retreat from those 3 to 1 fights
That's the possible disparity. For assasins I kinda understand that agility but for other classes it might be too much. You want to play as a heavy, hybrid, or vanguard but you want the ability of someone with a reflex guard. This might be a have your cake and eat it to scenerio. To do what the public wants and likes or do what's best for the games balance and game play ability.

DeamonXII
09-11-2019, 09:32 AM
Just play a 2D game if you want no back roll(like MK11)

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09-11-2019, 09:44 AM
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erniebegernie
10-02-2019, 04:50 AM
I am against getting rid of the back roll because going up against heroes like the Jiang Jun and the hitokiri it is my go to and a necessity. Those heroes and some others have those unbreakable moves that seem to chase you and simply dodging back won't get away from them. Jiang Jun has the unbreakable side sweep and the hito has the charge heavy.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
10-02-2019, 07:36 AM
I am against getting rid of the back roll because going up against heroes like the Jiang Jun and the hitokiri it is my go to and a necessity. Those heroes and some others have those unbreakable moves that seem to chase you and simply dodging back won't get away from them. Jiang Jun has the unbreakable side sweep and the hito has the charge heavy.
it's not about what's best for the player but what's best for the game.

Vendelkin
10-03-2019, 02:58 AM
it's not about what's best for the player but what's best for the game.

You are right.

And keeping back roll in the game is absolutely whats best for the game.

The only reasonable compromise i see is un-standardizing back roll for heavies. But even then im not sure thats a good idea.

Sweaty_Sock
10-03-2019, 04:37 AM
Its needed, or lvl 4 feats will be even worse...

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
10-03-2019, 05:30 AM
Its needed, or lvl 4 feats will be even worse...

It's a sad day when feats dictate a fight games mechanics.