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View Full Version : NEVER SEEN A HEDGEHOG



cpt_earthling
09-04-2005, 08:56 PM
Hey
I've got a problem and I havn't asked for a
long time cause I was to busy avoiding depth
charges but NOT hedgehog's, It might have been
asked already but I would like to know, were
hedgehogs (allied anti submarine weapon) not
included in the final game, if they were
why have I never been attacked by this weapon.
If they weren't it is a major oversight seeing
that that is the weapon which killed uboats the
most. any other thoughts?

Flakwalker
09-04-2005, 09:17 PM
It depends, on the year and on the Destroyer. Escort Destroyers comes with them on 1943 more less, other never was equiped with them.

Just take a time on the Museum and check the destroyers and the year of them, V&W destoyers have them late on war, looks like a rocket launcher and normally is attached on upper bow. Then check other Destroyers to know what have it and wich not.

I was attacked with them, fortunatelly it miss thanks of a decoy.

WilhelmSchulz.-
09-04-2005, 11:23 PM
Yea Hedghogs are introduced later in the war. Like 44-45

Jack_Stern
09-05-2005, 12:57 AM
I've seen way too many in multiplayer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

WilhelmSchulz.-
09-05-2005, 12:59 AM
thereusaly in later war years for more of a chalange.

rory208
09-05-2005, 01:49 AM
Yeah, I got hit with one in multiplayer, and then the bastard cruised over me and dropped enough depth charges to sink the Titanic. That was a short run. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Kaleun1961
09-05-2005, 01:24 PM
What about Squids? The Squid was a forward firing depth charge. It could be fired forward while the escort still had asdic contact. Is it modelled in the game as well?

lecek
09-05-2005, 05:59 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
What about Squids? The Squid was a forward firing depth charge. It could be fired forward while the escort still had asdic contact. Is it modelled in the game as well?

Nice. A good way to sink yourself. You would need to do a backward depth charge run.

Kaleun1961
09-05-2005, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by lecek:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
What about Squids? The Squid was a forward firing depth charge. It could be fired forward while the escort still had asdic contact. Is it modelled in the game as well?

Nice. A good way to sink yourself. You would need to do a backward depth charge run. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It had a range of 250 yards. Obviously they would fire it and then turn to either side to escape the blast. It was more accurate than side or stern dropped charges, as the charge was shot out while still in sonar contact with the sub. It was good against subs that were deep.

Chrystine
09-05-2005, 07:21 PM
*

I can€t recall off-hand at the moment whether the squid fired the same sort of slightly smaller charge as with the Hedgehog €" (tho€ as a forward-launched high-explosive, it would seem likely to me it was) €" but those DC€s also did not detonate unless they impacted the target sub €" so, firing them ahead and continuing on-course keeping the targeted sub on ASDIC was not a problem.
To the best of my understanding, it was precisely this un-interrupted ASDIC-€˜lock€ which led to the development and use of the forward throwing systems in the first place.

Best,
~ C.

Kaleun1961
09-05-2005, 07:29 PM
The Hedgehog was the best anti-U-boat weapon until the homing torpedo came along. The main benefit of the Hedgehog was that if it did not hit the U-boat, there was no explosion. This had two benefits: You knew if you had hit or missed and if there was no explosion, there was no disturbance of the water, which resulted with regular depth charges and hampered asdic for a time until the water settled.

The Hedgehog fired 24 mortar-like projectiles from a bank of spigots in a pattern ahead of the escort. They were tipped with a contact detonator. If they hit a U-boat they caused enough damage to kill the boat outright with one hit, or enough damage to force it to surface. Not many skippers got hit by a Hedgehog and lived to tell the tale.

The Squid fired a depth charge the same as or similar to the depth charges rolled off the stern or fired from "K-guns" from the sides of the escort. Although it had the advantage of being fired with more accuracy than side or stern charges, due to a better sonar lock, it had the same disadvantage as conventional depth charges: the escort had to maneuver to avoid the blast, and the blast disrupted the water, hampering asdic use. Hedeghog came to be the choice weapon over Squid; that's why you don't hear too much about Squid. But it was an improvement until Hedgehog was deployed.

K61

Chrystine
09-05-2005, 07:42 PM
*

Thanks for that K61 €¦

I also just went to see what I could find about this, and came across this as well€¦

Regarding the Squid

€œThis was a much heavier version of an ahead throwing weapon than €˜Hedgehog,€ and comprised two Mortars, each with three barrels, each individual barrel throwing a 350 pound charge over a 700 yard distance, and ahead of the ship's bows. The €˜Squid,€ projectile could be pre set to explode at a set depth. and this weapon was too heavy to fit to the Flower class Corvettes, and was confined to Destroyers, Sloops, and Frigates

It made its first kill on the 31st of July, 1944, sinking U333€

Mackenzie J Gregory
€œUnder Water Warfare The Struggle Against the Submarine Menace 1939 €"1945

Thanks for your reply€¦ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
PS. In answer to your Q. above, too €" I can only say now having completed my last (2nd) Career, 1st Flotilla, Sept. 1939 €" end April, €45 €" I never saw anything resembling the Squid.
There were only the two encounters with Hedgehogs mentioned previously in another post€¦

Whether SH III has modeled the Squid or not, I can€t say €¦

Best,
~ C.

Kaleun1961
09-05-2005, 07:42 PM
Before the days of computers, I used to play the Avalon Hill boardgame, Submarine. It allowed you to play not just with German U-boats, but also Italian, Japanese, etc. One player used the subs, the other player controlled the escorts.

My brother and I spent many hours with this game; our favourite sides to play were, of course, Royal Navy and U-boats. There were a limited number of depth charges aboard the escorts; you had to keep track of how many you fired, and when they were gone, that was it. We used to be able to drop one killer depth charge: a 2,000 pound depth charge. It was a very lethal weapon, but of course you only dropped it when you had a good idea of where the sub was. I'd like to be able to hear that one go off with my six-speaker surround sound!

We also used Squid and Hedgehog. Both were sub-killers, but the Hedgehog was my favourite.

K61

Chrystine
09-05-2005, 07:56 PM
*

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif That just sounds wicked€¦

SH III is my first dealing with Subs at all €" so I€m still in the €˜basic education€ mode, trying to learn as much as possible as best-able €¦
I don€t want to just €œknow stuff€ tho€ €" I never feel I €˜know€ anything until I understand it at least at some level (however basic it may be).

Best,
~ C.

Kaleun1961
09-05-2005, 09:53 PM
We used to play it on the dining room table, which of course could lead to problems. I remember one time Dad was preparing supper. He came into the room with a big bowl of potatoes and said, "Can I set this down on the table, boys, or will a mine blow up in my face?" Hilarious. Good times.

We used to spend a lot of time arguing over the interpretation of rules. One good thing about computer games is no stopping play to argue rules.

K61

Flakwalker
09-05-2005, 09:56 PM
I want that board game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif!

Going back, why the little hedgehog had more powerfull effect in contact than a larger deep charge?

Kaleun1961
09-05-2005, 10:12 PM
The Hedgehog impacted right against the hull. Most depth charges detonated some distance away from the hull. A depth charge going off right next to the hull would, of course, be very devestating, and no doubt some subs must have been sunk that way. But a Hedgehog going off, well, you just knew that it was very close, because it only fired on contact. A "near miss" [what a misnomer, it should be termed a near hit] was as good as missing by a mile, because it would not explode.

The 1-ton depth charge was a real killer, but we seldom managed to kill with it. We only dropped it on a crippled sub trying to surface. Me and my brother always played for keeps. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif Sibling thing, ya know.

Kaleun1961
09-05-2005, 10:19 PM
When the Hedgehog exploded, it was directly adjacent to the hull, as it had an impact detonator. If it was a "near miss", [what a misnomer that one is; a miss is a miss; it should be called a "near hit"] it would not explode. Hence, Hedgehog explosions were almost always fatal or highly damaging, as they were so near.

Most depth charges exploded at some distance from the sub. There would be some cushioning effect from the mass of water between the explosion and the sub's hull, which would disperse the force of the blast. But at the same time, the water also transmits the blast force. If close enough, this would be very devestating.

We will of course never know how many subs were killed by that one depth charge that exploded "just right." The main effect of depth charges was to inflict cumulative, non-lethal damage which would eventually force the boat to surface: battery cracks allowing seawater to contact battery acid would form chlorine gas; water leaks and so forth. A suitable analogy might be with boxing. Not all fights end in a TKO. Many end because a fighter is just worn down from so many punches and cannot stay in the fight.

Hope this explains it.

K61

Flakwalker
09-05-2005, 10:35 PM
Well ingame I got very close deep charge hits but not much damage at all, but maybe was the camera angle.

Kaleun1961
09-05-2005, 10:52 PM
That's something I've never tried doing, watching the DC's explode. I use the Real U-boat mod, which I think darkens the water. Also, I don't usually enable the camera views as it subtracts from the renown I earn.

The_Silent_O
09-06-2005, 01:27 PM
Late 43 off of Freetown...a single destroyer tried tracking me down...I lined up a stern shot and fired. Seconds before my torpedo hits the "Action screen" shows an above the waterline shot of the destroyer...then "Whoosh" it fires its hedgehog at what must have been a false target. All the little projectiles landed in almost a perfect circle above 50 meters in front of the destroyer.

...a second later my torpedo hits magnectic and lifts the destroyer out of the water. I surface while it is sinking and the bastard is still fighting back with it's main guns...then it sinks like a cigarette straight up and down...

...I love this game...never two sinkings the same!! Hunting destroyers is becoming a hobby of mine.

WilhelmSchulz.-
09-06-2005, 02:18 PM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
Before the days of computers, I used to play the Avalon Hill boardgame, Submarine. It allowed you to play not just with German U-boats, but also Italian, Japanese, etc. One player used the subs, the other player controlled the escorts.

My brother and I spent many hours with this game; our favourite sides to play were, of course, Royal Navy and U-boats. There were a limited number of depth charges aboard the escorts; you had to keep track of how many you fired, and when they were gone, that was it. We used to be able to drop one killer depth charge: a 2,000 pound depth charge. It was a very lethal weapon, but of course you only dropped it when you had a good idea of where the sub was. I'd like to be able to hear that one go off with my six-speaker surround sound!

We also used Squid and Hedgehog. Both were sub-killers, but the Hedgehog was my favourite.

K61 Sounds fun how do u play it.

blastomatic1759
09-15-2005, 09:49 PM
well im not the smartest person in the world , but from what ive figured out already is that anything that comes flying off of a destroyer, either bow or on the stern is probably going to suck. Unless whatever is flying off of it is on fire.

Baldricks_Mate
09-16-2005, 10:05 AM
Has anyone else noticed that late in the war the destroyers not only roll the cans off the back but fire them out some distance port & starboard (but not forward)?