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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:47 AM
It arrives on Monday! Can you guys suggest some of your assignments, hints or tips for me?

I currently have TIR + MSFFB2 using hatswitch for views which works quite well so far. I would like to add the extra CEM controls to the throttle, but would like to hear how YOU set it up.

Thank you



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:47 AM
It arrives on Monday! Can you guys suggest some of your assignments, hints or tips for me?

I currently have TIR + MSFFB2 using hatswitch for views which works quite well so far. I would like to add the extra CEM controls to the throttle, but would like to hear how YOU set it up.

Thank you



<center>http://members.rogers.com/4xtreme/chbanner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:29 PM
Front 3 single buttons:

Gear
Flaps Up
Flaps Down

Front 4 way hat:

Up: Elevator Trim up
Down: Elevator Trim down
Left: Rudder Trim left
Right:Rudder Trim right

Side Buttons

Center Single Button: Push To Talk Voice Comms

Lower 4 way hat:

Up: Center Elevator Trim
Down:Center Rudder Trim
Right: Engine Start
Left: Bail Out


Center 4 way Hat:

Up: Map
Down: Look Front
Left: Pause TIR
Right:Center TIR

Upper 4 Way hat:

Current set up for changing view commands but will change as I gain experience with TIR.

I have the throttle set up for all 4 weapons firings, Prop settings, Wep, auto pilot, gunsight view, normal view, drop tanks, turn cockpit lights on, and 8 way had set up for views as a back up to TIR.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:30 PM
Thanks Swifty some good ideas there.

I was wondering why you need to pause TIR at all in-game. I used to have to do so in IL2 but in FB absolute mode and deadzones made it unnecessary for me.

S~



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:33 PM
I just got the TIR and had some trouble setting it up and getting it running right. I seem to have it going good now and will probably change those buttons also. Just want to get used to using it first.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:07 PM
Heh, it does take a bit of tweaking and a week or two of getting used to but well worth it. If you'd like to try my own profile or would like any tips on getting the most resolution out of it let me know.



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:28 PM
I have the same controllers. MSFF2, TrackIR and CH Pro Throttle. Here is my set-up.

Throttle:
front 3 handle buttons:
RW PTT key
pause trackIR
center trackIR

front hatswitch:
snap/pan view directions

Side top hat:
up/down: POV increase/decrease
left/right: flaps

middle hat:
left/right: prop pitch
up: radiator flaps
down: toggle auto-manual prop pitch

bottom hat:
left: gear
right: wheel brakes
up/down: fuel mix

mini joystick:
for panning views


MSFF2:
1: MG
2: center view
3: kanon
4: bomb release
5: wingtip smoke
6: toggle icons
7: nav lights
8: WEP
throttle slider: trim
hatswitch:
up: map
down: toggle snap/pan views
right: toggle gunsight
left: recticle dimmer

As you can see, I have every possible combo of views available, all of which I use. Good luck with your new toy.



http://home.comcast.net/~wolfrum_5.jg52/WOLF2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:28 PM
Oh good, you have TrackIR so I don't need to dig up the microstick-as-a-mouse instructions again. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

First off, a few general tips:

There are two ways you can perform the command assignments with IL-2/FB and CH USB hardware. You can have the CH Control Manager profile set up to send keystrokes or button IDs to the game, which you then configure to match. Personally I found it much easier to select keystrokes for all the commands, then program Control Manager to send keystrokes. It makes it easier to associate the buttons to commands by having the keystroke as a "middleman". It also helps with debugging the Control Manager profile.

It seems to me that a lot of people overlook the mode switch and shift button functionality that the CH stuff has. The mode switch lets you have three completely different sets of button assignments within the same profile. The shift button allows each button to perform two different functions. Combine the two and you can have six different "profiles within a profile."

I haven't gone to this extreme, but I do use the mode switch on my Fighterstick to obtain two slightly different fighter profiles (the fire buttons are juggled around so that the trigger either fires all guns or fires cannons only) and a bomber profile that has the bombsight and other related commands mapped to various hatswitches. I use the shift button for a few functions where it makes sense. For example, 'padlock enemy aircraft' is up on a particular hat, while 'padlock friendly aircraft' is up on that same hat while holding the shift button. Another nice thing is that if you don't explicitly program a new function to a different mode or shifted-button, the "Mode 1 unshifted default" will be retained.


As for specific assignments, here's what I have:

Items separated by a / are for different modes: i.e. Fighter (Modes 1&2) / Bomber (Mode 3)
Items in brackets are shifted:

Front 3 buttons:
Pinkie: Shift button
Ring: Push-to-talk for voice comms (F10) [Toggle Comms menu (Tab)]
Middle: Wheel brakes (b) [Toggle Map (m)]

Front 4-way hat:
Fighter modes: Simply 1, 2, 3, 4 on the keyboard for wingman commands as placeholders until I fine a better use for them (I have trim elsewhere)
Bomber mode:
Forward: Auto Leveller (Shift-A)
Right: Bombardier Position (2)
Back: Automate Bombsight (Alt A)
Left: Pilot Position (1)

Upper 4-way hat:
Right: WEP (w)
Down: Flaps Down (v)
Left: Radiator (r)
Up: Flaps Up (f)

Center 8-way hat: (Used as a 4-way)
Right: External View (F2) / Inc. Bombsight Velocity (=)
Down: Enemy External View (Ctrl-F2) / Dec. Bombsight Alt. (Down Arrow)
Left: Cockpit View (F1) / Dec. Bombsight Velocity (-)
Up: Friendly External View (Shift-F2) / Inc. Bombsight Alt. (Up Arrow)

Lower 4-way hat:
Right: Normal View (End)
Down: Wide View (Page Down)
Left: Gunsight View (Delete)
Up: Toggle Gunsight (Shift-F1)


Sorry for the weird hat direction ordering (Right, Down, Left, Up). I have my frame of reference rotated by 90 degrees compared to most other people and the software. I.e. to me, those directions are: (Forward, Right, Back, Left). When you put you hands on it, you'll see what I mean. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

In case you're wondering, I had to make a spreadsheet table for all these commands when I was setting them up, to help keep things organized. If you're interested in seeing my Control Manager map, send me a PM. Hope this was helpful.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When my brother and I built and flew the first man-carrying flying machine, we thought that we were introducing into the world an invention which would make further wars impossible..."

Orville Wright, 1917

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:07 PM
I use the upper 'thumb' 4way hat as prop pitch control, and the lower 'thumb' 4way hat as mixture/supercharger controls. I find the prop pitch located under the thumb to be very reminiscent of the actual Luftwaffe aircraft (FW190/Bf109) which apparently used a thumb 'rocker' switch for manual pitch adjustments.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:41 PM
Leadfinger_71 wrote:
- Some great informative info

Thanks alot Leadfinger_71! I'll be bookmarking this thread and I'll have a hand at setting it up using some of these posted profiles as a reference. I may not be able to do so right away but perhaps mid-week I'll get a chance. (I'm still wondering how I'm going to explain the $200cdn purchase to the wife /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

Anyway, I was wondering what the modes were for, and having a shift function just blows my mind for the number of possibilities this throttle setup actually has!

Thanks again, if I need to I'll PM you for your profile.

S~



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:08 PM
When you figure out what a map file is, make one with this inside:


010701=2
010704=1
010710=1
010711=7
012001=2
012029=1
010101=1
010104=1
010110=1
010111=1
010114=83911691
010201=1
010204=1
010210=1
010211=2
010214=83911691
010301=2
010304=1
010310=1
010311=3
010314=83911689
010801=2
010804=1
010824=1
010825=1
010901=2
010904=1
010924=1
010925=2
010A01=2
010A04=1
010A24=1
010A25=3
010B01=2
010B04=1
010B24=1
010B25=4
010C01=2
010C04=1
010C24=1
010C25=5
010D01=2
010D04=1
010D24=1
010D25=6
010E01=2
010E04=1
010E24=1
010E25=7
010F01=2
010F04=1
010F24=1
010F25=8
011001=2
011004=1
011024=1
011025=9
011101=2
011104=1
011124=1
011125=10
011201=2
011204=1
011224=1
011225=11
011301=2
011304=1
011324=1
011325=12
011401=2
011404=1
011424=1
011425=13
011501=2
011504=1
011524=1
011525=14
011601=2
011604=1
011624=1
011625=15
011701=2
011704=1
011724=1
011725=16
010213=Increase Prop. Pitch / Decrease Prop. Pitch
000007=1
000003=50
000004=100
000011=6
010112=1[ NULL NULL NULL NULL ]
010105=1
010113=Decrease Mixture / Increase Mixture
010313=Power
010212=1= NULL NULL NULL NULL -
010205=1
010B28=Decrease Engine Power
010A28=Increase Engine Power
010928=Boost (WEP) On/Off
010D28=Cowl or Armor Flaps
010C28=Supercharger Prev. Stage
010E28=Supercharger Next Stage
011528=Weapon 4
011728=Weapon 3
011428=Toggle Gun Pods On/Off
011628=Toggle Gun Pods On/Off
010F28=Cowl or Armor Flaps
012028=FOV 40
012628=Normal View
012601=2
012428=FOV 85
012401=2
012501=2
012528=Look Back Up Left
012328=Look Back Up Right
012301=2
012201=2
012228=Toggle Gunsight
012701=2
012728=Look Front Up
011328=Feather Prop.
011128=Prop. Pitch Auto
011028=Instant View Forward with Padlock
011228=Toggle Snap/Pan View


note: -=[] are keyboard assigned prop and mix + and -



This works well with MSFFB2 keys assigned:

wheel =elevator trim
button 1=guns
button 2=padlock enemy
button 3=cannons
button 4=padlock next
button 5=toggle FOV
button 6=toggle snap/pan view (or instant view forward with padlock)
button 7=flaps raise
button 8=flaps lower

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 06:58 PM
Ray, whats the advantage of using your mapfile as opposed to mapping the commands through the software?

Keep in mind also that I don't use (or need) padlock despite its radar advantages so I would have to modify it anyway.

Do you have an index for which controls correspond to the listed numbers being mapped in your map file?



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:40 PM
PriK wrote:
- Ray, whats the advantage of using your mapfile as
- opposed to mapping the commands through the
- software?
-
- Keep in mind also that I don't use (or need) padlock
- despite its radar advantages so I would have to
- modify it anyway.
-
- Do you have an index for which controls correspond
- to the listed numbers being mapped in your map file?

Basically he's just sending you his .map file without actually having to email it to you as an attachment. The advantage would be having a duplicate of his .map without having to take the time to enter it manually in Control Manager.

Hmm, I'm not aware of any kind of index like you're asking about... Good question though. Probably my biggest wish for an update to Control Manager would be some sort of automatic printable form that listed all your control assignments.


I'm glad I could be of help PriK. I learned a lot about CM through trial and error, and derive some satisfaction from saving others the trouble. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When my brother and I built and flew the first man-carrying flying machine, we thought that we were introducing into the world an invention which would make further wars impossible..."

Orville Wright, 1917

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 07:54 PM
You are right in that I did not list the buttons

But when you load a map file with the contents I have listed, then when you are looking at your CH controller software, with the pic of your controller, you can press a button and it will highlight and will tell you what it is I use, because I have added the description.

You don't have to use any map, and just let windows recognize it as a standard USB device and assign the buttons from within the game. In fact the only reason I use a map file at all is to configure the ministick for prop pitch and mix. Although it is a slider aka axis, it doesn't work well as an axis, since it is self centering. You can move it to where you want but it will always want to return to the center. I have tried it as a "mouse" but the device does not refresh high enough for smooth panning.

I have to use it for something though, so I use one axis of the ministick for prop pitch, and the other axis for mix. I acheive this in the controller software by designating it non-directX, positional mode, with each end of the axis causing a keyboard button to be pressed (prop pitch/mix increase/decrease). This keyboard button is assigned in the game. I put 4 "NULL" in between to accentuate a thumbs natural flicking motion. NULLs are essential for a deadzone in the middle. If there are too few NULLs however, then the ministick has to travel too far back towards the center before you can push it up again (aces in German fighters need to be able to move the prop pitch fast) If there are too many NULLs, then you have to push the stick too far to activate the controller assignment (as you can tell, I am an ace who lives on the edge)

When you get the controller you will learn that you can push the ministick in like a button to cycle through 3 different "modes of the stick", but beware. It is not a sturdy of piece of hardware designed for this. So if you are going to press the stick in, then use 3 fingers around it (thumb, forefinger, middlefinger) to brace it. If you just try to press it in using your thumb alone, it will have no lateral support, and will be wanting to go to the side, and youll have to press it harder, stressing the device. Personally, I don't press it in at all ever. I have no use for other modes. People with the CH joystick have a true button they can press on it for modes (mode switches switch all downloaded mapped CH devices they are using)

Finnally, get off of your "full real settings" kick, and learn how to use padlock. Even Oleg himself has admitted that padlock should be a part of full real. Many of the better online dogfight servers enable padlock, and when used properly is a beautiful advantageous thing.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:14 PM
Ray, thanks alot for your suggestions and experience with the throttle, I'm sure it will come in handy.

As for the full-real kick, I guess I'm just a different type of player. I don't use padlock simply because it detracts from the experience for me when I already have a TIR. I don't really care if others use it against me.

The only problem I have with padlock is it's ability to identify a plane without you actually being able to see it, and the cloud issue but I figure thats an advantage a non-TIR user can use to compensate for my advantage.

I find that I like limited icons as well but for me it's more an immersion factor than using every possible exploit/advantage. I don't really care about points but thats just me.



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 10:42 PM
This looks like a good bit of kit.

I'm buying one (don't tell my wife/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~lenazavaroni/images/tva_01a.jpg

<font size="+4">What a fox!</font></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 10:46 PM
homeless1 wrote:
-
-
- This looks like a good bit of kit.
-
- I'm buying one (don't tell my wife

I'm prepared for the rolleyes I'll get from mine, but I'm also prepared to lie outright about what I paid for it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Rudders will be next but with a bit of clever planning I may be able to get it for a birthday or Christmas perhaps. Hmmm...



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 11:24 PM
PriK wrote:
-
- I'm prepared for the rolleyes I'll get from mine,
- but I'm also prepared to lie outright about what I
- paid for it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I knew I wasn't the only one who did this. My missus thinks I payed 80 quid for a Ti4600 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif


- Rudders will be next but with a bit of clever
- planning I may be able to get it for a birthday or
- Christmas perhaps. Hmmm...

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif This is the exact same cunning plan that I am using!

-S- fellow conspiritor.

<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~lenazavaroni/images/tva_01a.jpg

<font size="+4">What a fox!</font></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 02:22 AM
homeless1 wrote:
-
- PriK wrote:
--
-- I'm prepared for the rolleyes I'll get from mine,
-- but I'm also prepared to lie outright about what I
-- paid for it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- I knew I wasn't the only one who did this. My missus
- thinks I payed 80 quid for a Ti4600 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
-
-
-- Rudders will be next but with a bit of clever
-- planning I may be able to get it for a birthday or
-- Christmas perhaps. Hmmm...
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif This is the exact same
- cunning plan that I am using!
-
--S- fellow conspiritor.

LOL! It may just be one of those "guy" things, but we can worry about the psychiatrists and marraige counselling AFTER we get our kit. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:31 AM
PriK wrote:
- The only problem I have with padlock is it's ability
- to identify a plane without you actually being able
- to see it

Yes this sucks when there are limited icons that are range only and no color, yet padlock can still ID them. I have told Oleg about this but I'm sure nothing will come of it.

- and the cloud issue

What cloud issue? Clouds will break off padlock and you can't lock what you can't see.

- I don't really care
- about points but thats just me.

I don't care about points either. I care about being an ace. People can steal my kills I don't care at all. I get 1000 points just from being there.

<img src=http://lafayettefederation.com/screenshots/repository/turo/tn-Numbaone.jpg>
"The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was still a newbie.
<a href=http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612109283>news update</a>

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 02:24 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:

-- and the cloud issue
-
- What cloud issue? Clouds will break off padlock and
- you can't lock what you can't see.
-

Yes, I should have been more specific. I understand that people can just lower their cloud detail for online play although I haven't tried it myself. I've also read here that clouds aren't always rendered in the same position on every player's screen (online) which can really defeat the purpose.

Please feel free to correct me if I've got it wrong.



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