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View Full Version : Ubi downgrades gunsmith to increase their ****ty loot pool and calls it more indepth



JohnnyTest91
09-04-2019, 05:21 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/GhostRecon/comments/czn16u/downgrading_gunsmith_to_increase_your_loot_pool/?

I am sorry to say this but I am deeply, deeply disappointed and angry.

Gunsmith in Breakpoint should have been what Tarkov, Ground Branch or at least the new MW offers their players. Instead you take a feature that everyone likes and downgrade it for a feature NO SINGLE PERSON asked for.

That's not fair towards your loyal fan base...

Edit: Great comment by this guy - https://www.reddit.com/r/GhostRecon/comments/czmyus/ghost_recon_breakpoint_gunsmith_qa/eyzdq1y/

tRIncar91
09-04-2019, 05:28 PM
While the indicators are clear this is most likely the case (*******it Ubisoft!), without the beta going live yet, we just don't have all the information.

JohnnyTest91
09-04-2019, 05:30 PM
While the indicators are clear this is most likely the case (*******it Ubisoft!), without the beta going live yet, we just don't have all the information.

https://ghost-recon.ubisoft.com/game/en-gb/news-updates/2VBeBxm1E6M8O5yAPOyyVL/tom-clancys-ghost-recon-breakpoint-developer-qa-gunsmith

tRIncar91
09-04-2019, 05:40 PM
*Some* of that is good, but I just sighed loudly enough for my wife to ask what was wrong ><

ManticButton
09-04-2019, 05:50 PM
wow that's garbage
just read it and I feel so disappointed right now

the cqc hk416 looks awful and impractical what were they thinking

these variants wouldn't be bad if we still had all the options from before but now they just feel like a slap to the face

and no taking away the stock, barrel, and trigger options doesn't add more depth

WarChild421
09-04-2019, 06:00 PM
This is what I was afraid they were going to do after seeing some of the early screen shots. They have gotten rid of a vast majority of customization over having more loot that you need to pick up. Will we now have to grind bases for the correct version of a gun? Or will we be able to just select which version we want to use in the Gunsmith?

vahndaar
09-04-2019, 06:01 PM
Boom! Knew this was about increasing the loot pool!

Slarlac249
09-04-2019, 06:13 PM
*Some* of that is good, but I just sighed loudly enough for my wife to ask what was wrong ><

what's the matter dear?

YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND

pushes monitor off table and storms out

I'M GOING TO THE PUB

tRIncar91
09-04-2019, 06:16 PM
what's the matter dear?

YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND

pushes monitor off table and storms out

I'M GOING TO THE PUB

The funny thing is she plays Wildlands too xD

Bone_Frog
09-04-2019, 06:43 PM
OMG... Why is Nomad squinting when he is aiming his rifle? Don't close an eye, that cuts out your depth perception and your periphery vision. It also causes eyestrain and leads to migraines. People have even moved away from this in long range magnified optics.

JohnnyTest91
09-04-2019, 06:52 PM
OMG... Why is Nomad squinting when he is aiming his rifle? Don't close an eye, that cuts out your depth perception and your periphery vision. It also causes eyestrain and leads to migraines. People have even moved away from this in long range magnified optics.

But they worked with real spec ops /s

AFOXCOM
09-04-2019, 07:41 PM
Oh my goodness, I knew it. I knew they were adding variant in the game to inflate the loot pool. Both Divisions have the same thing, there's like 3-ish variants of the weapons each (give or take a few exceptions) that inflate the pool and necessitate you hunt for the one you want. They even vary in attachment space and options, sometimes even weapon class (Police M4 is full auto, but the Lightweight and LVOA are semi-auto).

Are we sure the Division comparisons are unwarranted here...?

JohnnyTest91
09-04-2019, 07:45 PM
Oh my goodness, I knew it. I knew they were adding variant in the game to inflate the loot pool. Both Divisions have the same thing, there's like 3-ish variants of the weapons each (give or take a few exceptions) that inflate the pool and necessitate you hunt for the one you want. They even vary in attachment space and options, sometimes even weapon class (Police M4 is full auto, but the Lightweight and LVOA are semi-auto).

Are we sure the Division comparisons are unwarranted here...?

Sadly, The Division was the first thing that came to my mind. And that's not good.

Bone_Frog
09-04-2019, 07:53 PM
But they worked with real spec ops /s

They also admittedly chose to use animations that they thought were cool, as opposed to real. For example the "prone camo" feature. They took that from Predator, because they thought it looked cool. My guess is, that they didn't check how spec ops guys aimed.

gamerX281
09-04-2019, 08:02 PM
You have to be able to attach the ATPIAL laser to the top rail of the weapon and not only to the side.

JohnnyTest91
09-04-2019, 08:09 PM
They also admittedly chose to use animations that they thought were cool, as opposed to real. For example the "prone camo" feature. They took that from Predator, because they thought it looked cool. My guess is, that they didn't check how spec ops guys aimed.

It's still a game. If you have to do something not realistic to improve your game, I am fine with it. There was a video by a CoD animator on that topic. Really great dude.

premiumart
09-04-2019, 08:14 PM
If there are more different looking variants of weapons and not just barrel lenght like in wildlands it is objectively more in depth. You dont have to condone the implementation though.

SandShaq
09-04-2019, 08:14 PM
"Real Operators" my ***. They better bring back the old gunsmith or be some stupid division lite
they cannot have it both ways. Have your vision, stick to it.

If we wanted a loot pool we would have played the division. The COD game is going to take away the portion of this community that stuck with it waiting for it to go back to its roots.
Did I mention COD is going back to its roots?

Hugo-FOU
09-04-2019, 08:15 PM
I don’t think it’s as doom and gloom as people think. I personally think there is a lot that is good in this. Aside from Nomad squinting an eye, the reloads look good. I hope they’re reflected in ammo count.
The detail in the weapons looks good and it sounds like a lot of effort has been put into making each weapon have a unique feel. I don’t have an issue with needing to collect the specific variant of a weapon I want. How is that different from collecting the weapon variant parts in Wildlands? Of course I know it’s RNG, but we don’t enough about how that’s going to feature yet.

Although I would like more customisation options from the start, my feeling after reading the article is that it’s still somewhat of a work in progress.

“Q: Are there plans to add more attachments post-launch to offer additional variety?

Yes! We will add new attachments with unique behaviors, and we’ll also try to add more attachment variety per weapon category. All of this content will be unlockable through gameplay.”

Ultimately we need to play the beta, (for those that can), and leave honest constructive feedback.

ManticButton
09-04-2019, 08:27 PM
I don’t think it’s as doom and gloom as people think. I personally think there is a lot that is good in this. Aside from Nomad squinting an eye, the reloads look good. I hope they’re reflected in ammo count.
The detail in the weapons looks good and it sounds like a lot of effort has been put into making each weapon have a unique feel. I don’t have an issue with needing to collect the specific variant of a weapon I want. How is that different from collecting the weapon variant parts in Wildlands? Of course I know it’s RNG, but we don’t enough about how that’s going to feature yet.

Although I would like more customisation options from the start, my feeling after reading the article is that it’s still somewhat of a work in progress.

“Q: Are there plans to add more attachments post-launch to offer additional variety?

Yes! We will add new attachments with unique behaviors, and we’ll also try to add more attachment variety per weapon category. All of this content will be unlockable through gameplay.”

Ultimately we need to play the beta, (for those that can), and leave honest constructive feedback.

each weapon has less attachments in total then every other ghost recon game with gunsmith

proof the official video
why are they limiting what sights go on what guns
why can't I put a t1 on the 416!
or an angled grip on it they're in the game why can't I use them


https://youtu.be/DVq9kO3Bx_A

premiumart
09-04-2019, 08:32 PM
each weapon has less attachments in total then every other ghost recon game with gunsmith

proof the official video
why are they limiting what sights go on what guns
why can't I put a t1 on the 416!
or an angled grip on it they're in the game why can't I use them


https://youtu.be/DVq9kO3Bx_A

Thats a good question and something i have wondered about myself when playing but they could change that, it might take a while though.

I played both OTTs and i think the feedback already influenced the game. They will probably listen to feedback but its workload on top of the planed stuff.

JohnnyTest91
09-04-2019, 08:32 PM
It's so laughable that they say "each weapon has 22 attachments" and make it look like that's a lot.

Call of Duty has 40 attachments for each weapons at least.

Escape from Tarkov has uhm hundreds? of attachments for each weapon.

It just doesn't make any sense that they limit us like this.

ManticButton
09-04-2019, 08:37 PM
It's so laughable that they say "each weapon has 22 attachments" and make it look like that's a lot.

Call of Duty has 40 attachments for each weapons at least.

Escape from Tarkov has uhm hundreds? of attachments for each weapon.

It just doesn't make any sense that they limit us like this.

30 at least and around 60 for most

ghost recon breakpoint is a laughable joke when it comes to weapon customisation

premiumart
09-04-2019, 08:48 PM
It's so laughable that they say "each weapon has 22 attachments" and make it look like that's a lot.

Call of Duty has 40 attachments for each weapons at least.

Escape from Tarkov has uhm hundreds? of attachments for each weapon.

It just doesn't make any sense that they limit us like this.

I get where you are coming from but while im fascinated by escape from tarkov i am also unable to enjoy it, they gameplay it offers is just not fun for me which is my personal preference of course.

Call of Duty Modern Warfare looks really good but what keeps me from looking forward to that is the current Black Ops 4 micro transaction situation and i havent even played that i only heard about how the micro transactions work in that game and it doesnt make me optimistic for Modern Warfare but that is also just my personal prefrence.

One game already is and the other one probably will be awesome experiences. Just maybe not for me ;)

Hugo-FOU
09-04-2019, 08:51 PM
each weapon has less attachments in total then every other ghost recon game with gunsmith

proof the official video
why are they limiting what sights go on what guns
why can't I put a t1 on the 416!
or an angled grip on it they're in the game why can't I use them


https://youtu.be/DVq9kO3Bx_A

I agree that in terms of variety it looks like a downgrade, but I want to see it for myself in the beta. Then Iíll leave honest feedback based on my experience. Iíll also take the general consensus of the forums forward as best I can.

tRIncar91
09-04-2019, 08:54 PM
More variety (without paywalls) and more depth for the player to decide, not less. Please, somebody listen up there...

ManticButton
09-04-2019, 09:12 PM
I agree that in terms of variety it looks like a downgrade, but I want to see it for myself in the beta. Then I’ll leave honest feedback based on my experience. I’ll also take the general consensus of the forums forward as best I can.

that's very fair I too will acquire as much info from the beta as I can and try to piece together the truth

this could be an old build their showing but this is their official look at gunsmith and it's honestly very upsetting

vahndaar
09-04-2019, 09:13 PM
If Breakpoint weren't a ghost recon game then in its own right I think many more people would get on board in support of what it is. Indeed I am genuinely excited to play it but I've had to manage my own expectations and change my approach to how I perceive it.

The problem stems from the fact it is part of a franchise and therefore those that love the franchise and what its known for and the styles of games within it have a measure of expectation and it is a very clear expectation that, with adequate and timely engagement, wouldn't have taken a lot of research to understand.

And I do think Ubi knows exactly what these players and franchise loyals want.

But they have chosen consciously to introduce mechanics that were not in the interests of this audience and were not asked for. It's an 80/20 approach where 20% of the changes were asked for and 80% were clearly in the strategic interests of Ubi.

It is this conscious divergence that I believe the community has taken objection to. Because it is quite observable. People believe they are being ignored, their opinions disregarded and that has now resulted in friction between the studio and its community.

Its not that they haven't been listened to. They have. But design decisions were made not in support of, but in spite of the views, opinions and feelings of the franchise community.

It is a missed opportunity because once this divergence is established I very much doubt we will return to, and enhance, the mechanics that made those previous games great.

I believe studios and communities can work together with common visions and goals for their games but that needs close and responsive engagement, communication and last but not least an actual appetite to incorporate and adapt plans and direction in tangible wahs in light of community feedback, instead of holding to a ridigly held vision.

I strongly believe that games produced in such an environment would be the greater than the sum of their parts.

AAA studios don't seem to understand that the people who understand their games most are their own dedicated and loyal gamers and customers, and this is an extremely valuable and relatively untapped resource.

So to Ubi - it is paramount that you listen, respond, and act on feedback from your players, communities and customers. I promise the results will exceed even your own expectations.

Kean_1
09-04-2019, 09:14 PM
30 at least and around 60 for most

ghost recon breakpoint is a laughable joke when it comes to weapon customisation

Thanks for correcting that as I think beyond MW having a playstyle that may not be comparable, I think it's important to note the direction IW has chosen to take their shooter with this new iteration. ....and the Gunsmith is one of those features that simply beats Ubi (at what i believe) at their own game with a GR, "authentic", "tactical", "military" shooter title. These are the kinds of improvements a large part of the community had been asking for before and during GRW. ....more variety, more options, more focus on guns / gunplay, added realism, etc.

GRW was going in the right direction during development / initial release and they should have continued down that path with GRB. Unfortunately, they strayed from their original vision found in the core game and it really started with the NR DLC, then Tier Mode, GW and so on (IMO).

Bone_Frog
09-04-2019, 09:16 PM
I agree that in terms of variety it looks like a downgrade, but I want to see it for myself in the beta. Then I’ll leave honest feedback based on my experience. I’ll also take the general consensus of the forums forward as best I can.

So back when a few companies were making and trying to market 458 SOCOM to PMCs, one of them, I don't remember who had this brilliant idea to show how you could carry the upper and a few mags in your ruck, and then when under fire(and undercover) switch your MK18 into a heavy hitting boom stick. Anyway the advert with associated company seems to be gone, but the guy who made the advert has since uploaded it to Vimeo:
https://vimeo.com/8435058

So yeah, taking barrel length out is a definite downgrade. Especially when going shorter. You could carry a 10.5 in barrel upper for a 416 in a ruck, and not be stuck with the ugly and highly impractical stock.

It definitely isn't the more robust system that we were promised. As far as how finding variants is different than finding parts in Wildlands, there are two things there RNG and Gear Score, neither of which were in Wildlands. Oh did I mention that if I want a short barrled 416 I now have to put up with a ridiculous stock?

WarChild421
09-04-2019, 09:30 PM
I just watched a Ground Branch customization video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh87sDp8IRc

Guns start around 11:30

This is the route I had thought that GR was moving in, more customization options. Allowing us to kit out guns as we see fit. Placing accessories where we want them on the gun. Instead they have massively downgraded the customization of the game seemingly to increase the loot drops and micro-transactions. Got to have the blue credits to be able to buy new variants of the guns you already have.

AI BLUEFOX
09-04-2019, 09:54 PM
The number of options is the important factor for me. More variants with less replaceable slots can give the player the same number of combinations as one variant with more replaceable slots. You just find the variant instead of the attachment. I would prefer complete freedom in Gunsmith, but I'm intrigued to see what the numbers add up to. And yeah it's part of the loot, but that ship already sailed for me.

One of the feedback themes from Wildlands was that changing the weapons had very little difference in terms of performance, and this seems to have been addressed by using variants with distinct characteristics. Nobody has even mentioned that the article says muzzle velocity will be real. Having real velocities, coupled with a desire to make weapon customisations distinctly different is the reason given for the variants and this makes sense. I'd still prefer total Gunsmith freedom and changing barrels, but if I'm honest I haven't changed my guns for any scenario in Wildlands for nearly two years, because there is not enough difference to make it worthwhile. I prefer a meaningful system of narrower choices over a wider selection of cosmetic but meaningless choices. I accept the best of both would have been the better choice, but the article hints at quality over quantity and this too was a consistent point in feedback. I'm prepared to see how this plays out,

I also liked the different reloads and that this opens up magazine management too. I'm keen to see how this will work.

premiumart
09-04-2019, 09:54 PM
I just watched a Ground Branch customization video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oh87sDp8IRc

Guns start around 11:30

This is the route I had thought that GR was moving in, more customization options. Allowing us to kit out guns as we see fit. Placing accessories where we want them on the gun. Instead they have massively downgraded the customization of the game seemingly to increase the loot drops and micro-transactions. Got to have the blue credits to be able to buy new variants of the guns you already have.

The ability to use any sight on any weapon and to put the the equipment anywhere on the railes has been reduced in the latest patch due to animation errors and clipping.

Quoting from patch notes.

"Miscellaneous
New weapon attachment restrictions

Some attachments have received limitations in order to prevent issues with animations, performance and other underlying systems:
Foregrip placement

Foregrips can now only be placed down to a certain position on bottom accessory rails. This was done to prevent the wobbly “spaghetti arm” effect that resulted from the character’s support arm being stretched out too far, as well as the issue where he would grip an invisible foregrip placed out of reach. The restriction ensures your character will always grip properly. We may adjust or remove this limitation in the future as we improve character poses and animations.
Sight placement

We have limited how far back you are allowed to mount certain sights on certain weapons’ top accessory rails. This restriction should prevent sights from clipping through the character’s eyes/camera. As with foregrips, this may be changed as new poses, animations and systems make their way into the game.
No more offset scopes

You can no longer mount a magnified optic onto an offset rail. A lot of players were reporting sight pictures being tilted when aiming through offset scopes and, because scopes aren’t meant to be mounted offset (and wouldn’t function correctly in such a configuration), we simply got rid of the ability to do that. See, you ain’t gotta fix it if you throw it away." ;- patch notes of the uptdate #016 Double Tap. found here

https://www.groundbranch.com/index.php/category/build-update/

While the Customization in Ground Branch is pretty cool its not without issues. I can understand why not every FPS/TPS goes for that. Also im not criticising Ground Branch for these changes.

RaulO4
09-04-2019, 10:02 PM
This game would be a GREAT Division 3. as a Ghost recon game is surely looking pretty stupid.

Bone_Frog
09-04-2019, 10:03 PM
The number of options is the important factor for me. More variants with less replaceable slots can give the player the same number of combinations as one variant with more replaceable slots. You just find the variant instead of the attachment. I would prefer complete freedom in Gunsmith, but I'm intrigued to see what the numbers add up to. And yeah it's part of the loot, but that ship already sailed for me.

One of the feedback themes from Wildlands was that changing the weapons had very little difference in terms of performance, and this seems to have been addressed by using variants with distinct characteristics. Nobody has even mentioned that the article says muzzle velocity will be real. Having real velocities, coupled with a desire to make weapon customisations distinctly different is the reason given for the variants and this makes sense. I'd still prefer total Gunsmith freedom and changing barrels, but if I'm honest I haven't changed my guns for any scenario in Wildlands for nearly two years, because there is not enough difference to make it worthwhile. I prefer a meaningful system of narrower choices over a wider selection of cosmetic but meaningless choices. I accept the best of both would have been the better choice, but the article hints at quality over quantity and this too was a consistent point in feedback. I'm prepared to see how this plays out,

I also liked the different reloads and that this opens up magazine management too. I'm keen to see how this will work.

Ok.. So real world muzzle velocities. In the real world suppressors speed up muzzle velocities by 1-3%. Yet every class aside from Panther, according to published press, is going to have a velocity penalty when using suppressors.

On the reloads. 1) Why is Nomad pulling the charging handle back on the regular empty mag reload. 2) Why he is tossing away a partial mag on the partial mag fast reload? Neither of those make sense as to what real world operators do.

ManticButton
09-04-2019, 10:09 PM
The number of options is the important factor for me. More variants with less replaceable slots can give the player the same number of combinations as one variant with more replaceable slots. You just find the variant instead of the attachment. I would prefer complete freedom in Gunsmith, but I'm intrigued to see what the numbers add up to. And yeah it's part of the loot, but that ship already sailed for me.

One of the feedback themes from Wildlands was that changing the weapons had very little difference in terms of performance, and this seems to have been addressed by using variants with distinct characteristics. Nobody has even mentioned that the article says muzzle velocity will be real. Having real velocities, coupled with a desire to make weapon customisations distinctly different is the reason given for the variants and this makes sense. I'd still prefer total Gunsmith freedom and changing barrels, but if I'm honest I haven't changed my guns for any scenario in Wildlands for nearly two years, because there is not enough difference to make it worthwhile. I prefer a meaningful system of narrower choices over a wider selection of cosmetic but meaningless choices. I accept the best of both would have been the better choice, but the article hints at quality over quantity and this too was a consistent point in feedback. I'm prepared to see how this plays out,

I also liked the different reloads and that this opens up magazine management too. I'm keen to see how this will work.

but now it has less slots and less options are you seriously going to defend that

bigrexxx
09-04-2019, 10:29 PM
but now it has less slots and less options are you seriously going to defend that

I guess that must be part of the requirements to get that Delta Force label. You have defend the game, or at least try to convince the community to be open minded, about decisions that were made. Now it's not a surprise that they waited until the day before the full gunsmith went public, before talking about, what many take as a downgrade.

JohnnyTest91
09-04-2019, 10:35 PM
The number of options is the important factor for me. More variants with less replaceable slots can give the player the same number of combinations as one variant with more replaceable slots. You just find the variant instead of the attachment. I would prefer complete freedom in Gunsmith, but I'm intrigued to see what the numbers add up to. And yeah it's part of the loot, but that ship already sailed for me.

One of the feedback themes from Wildlands was that changing the weapons had very little difference in terms of performance, and this seems to have been addressed by using variants with distinct characteristics. Nobody has even mentioned that the article says muzzle velocity will be real. Having real velocities, coupled with a desire to make weapon customisations distinctly different is the reason given for the variants and this makes sense. I'd still prefer total Gunsmith freedom and changing barrels, but if I'm honest I haven't changed my guns for any scenario in Wildlands for nearly two years, because there is not enough difference to make it worthwhile. I prefer a meaningful system of narrower choices over a wider selection of cosmetic but meaningless choices. I accept the best of both would have been the better choice, but the article hints at quality over quantity and this too was a consistent point in feedback. I'm prepared to see how this plays out,

I also liked the different reloads and that this opens up magazine management too. I'm keen to see how this will work.


You don't have the same amount of options, absolutely not. Just look at the CQB version of the 416 - you are forced to use that stock if you want to use a CQB version. The stock though is a ridiculous choice for CQB.

Apart from that, you now have to carry three variants around with you. And also you have to FIND them first.

solokiller
09-04-2019, 11:45 PM
You don't have the same amount of options, absolutely not. Just look at the CQB version of the 416 - you are forced to use that stock if you want to use a CQB version. The stock though is a ridiculous choice for CQB.

Apart from that, you now have to carry three variants around with you. And also you have to FIND them first.

Not only that, but you also have to take into account gear level and potential stats as well. Getting the gun you want in the configuration you want without handicapping yourself is starting to look like it's impossible with the hoops we'll have to jump through.

dfcDELTA
09-04-2019, 11:47 PM
See this is the crap that makes me angry with game companies!! Why strip away a great feature of the previous game instead of build on that feature. They stripped away great features of TD1 , which hurt TD2 IMO and now they will ruin GR. Bungie did the same crap with Destiny 2 and they are still hearing about it.

Ubisoft get your head on straight and realize that your fans want a deeper, richer and more robust GR experience, not a stripped down version of a great game!!!!

AI BLUEFOX
09-05-2019, 12:42 AM
but now it has less slots and less options are you seriously going to defend that

Try reading what I said.

I said the number of options was important to me and that I would prefer complete freedom in Gunsmith. The number of combinations is a function of variants, slots and available attachments, not just slots and attachments. That is just basic maths and we don't the know the counts yet.


I guess that must be part of the requirements to get that Delta Force label. You have defend the game, or at least try to convince the community to be open minded, about decisions that were made. Now it's not a surprise that they waited until the day before the full gunsmith went public, before talking about, what many take as a downgrade.


I'm real sorry for being open minded. As part of Delta Company, like Hugo, I'll be representing all the forum views not just my own.

AI BLUEFOX
09-05-2019, 12:52 AM
You don't have the same amount of options, absolutely not. Just look at the CQB version of the 416 - you are forced to use that stock if you want to use a CQB version. The stock though is a ridiculous choice for CQB.

Apart from that, you now have to carry three variants around with you. And also you have to FIND them first.

There are 3 variants at launch and the article says more variants and attachments post launch so we don't know the amount of options yet. We also don't really know how the weapon mark system will really work either so I'm waiting to see on that. Finding variants is no different to finding the attachments that would have made that variant.

bigrexxx
09-05-2019, 01:06 AM
I'm real sorry for being open minded. As part of Delta Company, like Hugo, I'll be representing all the forum views not just my own.

Sorry, it wasn't supposed to be a knock on you personally. Just that, as a DF member, you need to walk a fine line between being an Insider, and just being fan. So you need try to keep your public statements about the game neutral, even if you are critical of it, behind the scenes.

ManticButton
09-05-2019, 01:17 AM
Try reading what I said.

I said the number of options was important to me and that I would prefer complete freedom in Gunsmith. The number of combinations is a function of variants, slots and available attachments, not just slots and attachments. That is just basic maths and we don't the know the counts yet.




I'm real sorry for being open minded. As part of Delta Company, like Hugo, I'll be representing all the forum views not just my own.

each weapon will have at most 22 attachments and 5 slots so about 4 attachments per slot
not all guns will have variants however there will be 31 variants in total

the gun with the most confirmed variants which there will only be three of (assault,dmr,cqc) is the hk416 so combining the attachments and variants that's a total of about 25 different "parts" at most

compared to the basic m4 from wildlands that has around 35 total parts
(note that the m4 from wildlands was limited in customisation compared to other guns)

bigrexxx
09-05-2019, 01:17 AM
There are 3 variants at launch and the article says more variants and attachments post launch so we don't know the amount of options yet. We also don't really know how the weapon mark system will really work either so I'm waiting to see on that. Finding variants is no different to finding the attachments that would have made that variant.

The major difference, is that we won't be able to mix and match those special attachments, from the different variants. Someone may really like the look of that fixed stock, and want to pair it with the extra long hand guard from the Assault variant, but they can't.

Ghost416
09-05-2019, 01:23 AM
Oh did I mention that if I want a short barrled 416 I now have to put up with a ridiculous stock?
If it's any consolation, at least it's not one of those New York-legal stocks.

https://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/876/493/ar15ny12.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

bigrexxx
09-05-2019, 01:46 AM
True. But if what Blue said about new variants being added post launch, maybe we could get something like The HK416 PDW conversion, from Maxim Defense


http://www.defensereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Maxim-Defense-PDX-PDW-and-HK416-PDW-Conversion-Short-Barreled-Rifle-SBR-PDWs_SHOT-Show-2019_David-Crane_DefenseReview.com-DR_1.jpg

http://soldiersystems.net/blog1/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/A8CFB053-87AB-438A-89FF-B8DF7D036F48.jpeg

Glass_Ghost
09-05-2019, 08:39 AM
I'm really hoping that they have not watered dowm the loot pool by having multiples of weapons that are restricted to exclusive single, burst or full auto fire modes

JohnnyTest91
09-05-2019, 09:17 AM
There are 3 variants at launch and the article says more variants and attachments post launch so we don't know the amount of options yet. We also don't really know how the weapon mark system will really work either so I'm waiting to see on that. Finding variants is no different to finding the attachments that would have made that variant.

You should know that's not true.

You won't be able to use short barrels with certain variants. You won't be able to use some stocks with semi fire mode. And on top of that, different variants lock you out of several other attachments (like several optics, grips etc.)

They are limiting us. There is no right and left. 22 options per weapon is just laughable bad.

Virtual-Chris
09-05-2019, 10:49 AM
I think this change to gunsmith could likely be the worst change to the game when we tally the final score.

Personally, my fav weapon configuration (for the MK17 SCAR) is the DMR stock with the short barrel and that config is likely not possible now.

I could see them dropping pre-configured variants in the tiered loot pool, but to limit us from swapping out parts between variants is just malicious on their part. Thereís really no justification for it.

cardij
09-05-2019, 01:27 PM
We just went through years of people making posts full of possibilities/attachment combos they wish they could have in wildlands. The writing was on the wall for a fully modular weapon system. This move towards variants is a complete step in the opposite direction from what the community wanted and is terrible in my opinion. Also that stock on the 416 shortie is awful. I would never run something like that on my SBR... this is a shameful move in the wrong direction. The whole thing stinks. I think I'm leaning more towards modern warfare as games I will buy this fall.

BULLETSPONGE360
09-05-2019, 01:43 PM
What's left to say at this point. Posting feedback on the forums is like shouting into the void. They're just here to make the division 2.5 that means they need more loot!

WarChild421
09-05-2019, 02:22 PM
Not only that, but you also have to take into account gear level and potential stats as well. Getting the gun you want in the configuration you want without handicapping yourself is starting to look like it's impossible with the hoops we'll have to jump through.

That's the idea though; you have to stay in the game to grind out for just the gun you want, in the configuration you want, at the right gear level. I'll be the cynic here, I will not be surprised if they have a system where you can buy the gun in the configuration you want with credits that you can buy with real money. In WL's they have something similar but you were able to use any of the acc's that you had for that type of gun, not be locked into only using one configuration.

Over all its a much downgraded system.

quinch1199
09-05-2019, 03:09 PM
Its just a small step towards having to replay the same mission 100+ times to see if the exactly right loot item drops with the stats you want so you can finally take on that end game mission...

.....sigh

bELT_fED
09-05-2019, 05:17 PM
Good to know that they have weakened a meaningful part of the subject matter of the game (your weapons and all of their details) in exchange for a loot system that ultimately adds nothing to the active gameplay or subject of the game title.

At some point I would question wtf am I doing in a Ghost Recon game chasing copies of equipment/loot for the purpose of numbers.

But I don't have to worry about that. I don't buy things that aren't what I want.

kaptnfusselbart
09-05-2019, 07:25 PM
This game would be a GREAT Division 3. as a Ghost recon game is surely looking pretty stupid.

THAT is absoluetly my impression, too! Makes me wonder, what a potential division 3 could look like, as they are all merging into one game...

Bone_Frog
09-05-2019, 07:55 PM
THAT is absoluetly my impression, too! Makes me wonder, what a potential division 3 could look like, as they are all merging into one game...

So RNG was nice to me, and gave me a 416 straight off. Then, I cycled over to another weapon in my inventory to check gunsmith options, and it lost my 416.

Ghost416
09-05-2019, 08:12 PM
So RNG was nice to me, and gave me a 416 straight off. Then, I cycled over to another weapon in my inventory to check gunsmith options, and it lost my 416.
Ouch. Check Anderson Farm in Fen Bog. I found mine there.

On the topic of the 416, why the hell can't I put an AFG on it? :rolleyes: Honestly, the attachment restrictions in this game are absurd.

premiumart
09-05-2019, 08:19 PM
Ouch.

On the topic of the 416, why the hell can't I put an AFG on it? :rolleyes:

Thats a real good question my guess is balance maybe since every gun now has its own place within its class, you guys might have seen descriptions in the gunsmith like, "lowest muzzle velocity, but packs a punch" and stuff like that and since we can now see what the Grips actually change in the stats and we even got numbers, yay XD. Anyways i think they dont want the accessories to change the weapon out of its niche within the class.

I dont know im just guessing here.

ManticButton
09-05-2019, 08:21 PM
Thats a real good question my guess is balance maybe since every gun now has its own place within its class, you guys might have seen descriptions in the gunsmith like, "lowest muzzle velocity, but packs a punch" and stuff like that and since we can now see what the Grips actually change in the stats and we even got numbers, yay XD. Anyways i think they dont want the accessories to change the weapon out of its niche within the class.

I dont know im just guessing here.

it just feels lazy if I'm being honest

tRIncar91
09-05-2019, 08:23 PM
"We've improved the gunsmith for you." :nonchalance:

Ghost416
09-05-2019, 09:07 PM
GRB's Gunsmith has only three improvements on GRW's, in my view: wider selection of attachments, painting individually, and PEQ-15s mounted on the top rail. Aside from those, GRW's is superior.

I'm also curious about what Ubisoft considers "enough room" for mounting the PEQ-15 on the top rail. I'm looking at a SCAR-H with an Elcan scope on it with enough rail space to fit three PEQ-15s on top, but yet it's defaulted to the side rail. :confused:

SofaJockey
09-05-2019, 09:14 PM
Not sure I get all the obsession with wanting all these different weapons and attachments.

In the Tomb Raider games (which GRB seems very like) you just had one shotgun, rifle and pistol to choose from, and that worked fine.

Kean_1
09-05-2019, 09:28 PM
GRB's Gunsmith has only three improvements on GRW's, in my view: wider selection of attachments, painting individually, and PEQ-15s mounted on the top rail. Aside from those, GRW's is superior.

I'm also curious about what Ubisoft considers "enough room" for mounting the PEQ-15 on the top rail. I'm looking at a SCAR-H with an Elcan scope on it with enough rail space to fit three PEQ-15s on top, but yet it's defaulted to the side rail. :confused:

In GRW you could paint individual components too. .....if that's what you meant. If that's the case, then that's one more thing we already had.

premiumart
09-05-2019, 09:58 PM
In GRW you could paint individual components too. .....if that's what you meant. If that's the case, then that's one more thing we already had.

but from a small selection. Now you can mix and match all paterns.

Also on a different note enemies still dont reload just like in wildlands ( though the shotgun rushing soldiers seem to reload after 2 shots but the animation isnt really clear on that which is weird)

I actually enjoy the game but that still bothers me a little bit.

Ghost416
09-05-2019, 10:03 PM
In GRW you could paint individual components too. .....if that's what you meant. If that's the case, then that's one more thing we already had.
Like premiumart said, now you have full color customization as opposed to GRW's limited color customization. For example, I can now run a black rifle with tan attachments and buttstock.

Kean_1
09-05-2019, 10:03 PM
but from a small selection. Now you can mix and match all paterns.

Oh, ok. Yeah, I understand now.

bigrexxx
09-05-2019, 10:28 PM
After messing around with the gunsmith, I just know that whoever was behind the decision about the backwards direction that Gunsmith took, had to have dropped a brick in his or her pants, when the MW gunsmith was revealed. They were probably curled up in the fetal position, thinking "WHAT DID I DO????" and "HOW CAN I SPIN THIS AS AN IMPROVEMENT?".

cardij
09-06-2019, 03:01 AM
So back when a few companies were making and trying to market 458 SOCOM to PMCs, one of them, I don't remember who had this brilliant idea to show how you could carry the upper and a few mags in your ruck, and then when under fire(and undercover) switch your MK18 into a heavy hitting boom stick. Anyway the advert with associated company seems to be gone, but the guy who made the advert has since uploaded it to Vimeo:
https://vimeo.com/8435058

So yeah, taking barrel length out is a definite downgrade. Especially when going shorter. You could carry a 10.5 in barrel upper for a 416 in a ruck, and not be stuck with the ugly and highly impractical stock.

It definitely isn't the more robust system that we were promised. As far as how finding variants is different than finding parts in Wildlands, there are two things there RNG and Gear Score, neither of which were in Wildlands. Oh did I mention that if I want a short barrled 416 I now have to put up with a ridiculous stock?

Omg what is with that ludicrous stock on the 416 shortie?! I would never want to run that on an SBR. That thing is such a disgrace to an iconic weapon. Man I cant believe they went backwards on customization options. There were so many posts in Wildlands full of wish lists / options people wanted for barrels and stocks. Its like this whole thing is a complete troll. There were like 2000 posts begging for a short barrel option for the m4. Instead of adding this to their next game, they take barrel options away and force combinations of barrels/stocks/hand guards with variants. LOL! It's so blatantly the opposite of what everyone wanted.

LF-38-
09-09-2019, 02:33 AM
I hoped, we would get another slot for bipods and one for lights and maybe a few more stocks and rail systems to choose from. But instead, they took away existing slots ... :P