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chaneke33
08-31-2019, 03:12 AM
The main balancing problem in the game is that you guys in Ubisoft keep balancing with PC players in mind while your larger player base is on console.
We cannot react as PC players do due to technical specifications (frames, ping or latency).
Stop thinking that you're going to make it to the competitive scenario and start balancing the game to be fun and enjoyable for console players.
On console:
- Hitokiri is OP as hell
- Jorgunmander punches are not reactable and are too spamable
- Black Prior bashes are not reactable
- Shugoki's Demon Embrace punish the tiniest timing miscalculation
- JJ an Shaolin attacks are too fast to block on reaction
- Stoping light spam is more of a prediction of from where the next blow will come that a reaction

Please, turn your sight to the larger player base, we are the ones that can secure a sequel, and maybe if you learn from this game, that will get you to a competitive scenario.

CRIMS0NM0NKEY
08-31-2019, 04:26 AM
Why not connect all platforms then balance.

chaneke33
08-31-2019, 06:31 AM
Because adapting all platforms would be too expensive and unfair due to technical limitations. PC players would simply eradicate the console players. There is a reason why the game runs better on PC

Due to technical limitations the game runs better in PC when the PC allows it, I'm well aware of it, but I believe it's not fair that Ubisoft takes more into account the PC player base when console (Xbox and PS4) has a larger player base.
Even from the business point of view is moronic.

AlphawolfyUP
08-31-2019, 07:07 AM
I'll agree that they need to set their sights away from competitive/esports aspirations and actually focus on making it enjoyable for their playerbase. However I don't think scaling everything back to suit console perfectly would actually solve any of the real issues, hitokiri is a pain on PC too, trust me, optimising the game for your console won't stop her being an unbalanced mess of a class. Ultimately all you would achieve is making it worse for one group and slightly better for another, hardly a big win for the community as a whole compared to what they could do with actual class balance instead.

YuBiShiGouShi
08-31-2019, 08:15 AM
There is nothing they can do to make this game better....No matter how much you polish a pile of crap, It will always be a pile of crap. That's exactly what this game is. Bad netcode, terrible balance(Zero to be exact), no diminishing returns on bashing, clueless dev team and a terrible publisher. Just look at the view counter on all platforms. Nobody cares about this game. Even all the top streamers that tried to promote this game stopped because the developers are terrible.

Amerikanovich
08-31-2019, 10:20 AM
There is nothing they can do to make this game better....No matter how much you polish a pile of crap, It will always be a pile of crap. That's exactly what this game is. Bad netcode, terrible balance(Zero to be exact), no diminishing returns on bashing, clueless dev team and a terrible publisher. Just look at the view counter on all platforms. Nobody cares about this game. Even all the top streamers that tried to promote this game stopped because the developers are terrible.

Why are you here?

Valoredramack
08-31-2019, 11:01 AM
Why are you here?


Probably for the same reason as the title of the thread, which is "Balancing problems."

He's only saying what many of us are thinking. The Patch 2.11 Nerf Hammer on the Shinobi is starting to make me feel that way too.

I stopped playing the game after testing out that horrid patch, but I still check in on the forums because I'm hoping that the Devs get it together and fix this mess.

I like For Honor, but I'm starting to lose faith in this game after seeing so many unreasonable changes and nerfs since 2017; the Shinobi massacre in Patch 2.11 put me over the edge.

chaneke33
08-31-2019, 02:55 PM
I like For Honor, but I'm starting to lose faith in this game after seeing so many unreasonable changes and nerfs since 2017; the Shinobi massacre in Patch 2.11 put me over the edge.


I still like the game, I love the concept but that's the truth.
I'm not a Pro level player, I'm not trying to be one, I'm not terrible either, actually I'm good enough to be able to still enjoy this game, but the path they are taking it's not the best, from any point of view, even the business one.
And yes, Shinobi's nerf was an idiotic move. I'm not a Shinobi main, currently I'm a "no main", I play random with all characters and have my all my heroes minimum at Rep 4, except for the Wu Lin, I'm getting there.
The "balance" decisions Ubisoft have made are sinking more and more this game and only reducing their player base on every end.
They want to get to e-sports? Nobody will care enough for this game to pay attention when they get there at this rate.

Knight_Raime
08-31-2019, 04:40 PM
Sorry but platform isn't an excuse. The recent console for honor tournament solidified this. The two teams that ended up in the grand finals were UDDA (a well known pc clan) and a well known console clan. Said console clan actually beat UDDA in the grand finals and sent them to the losers brackets. Eventually UDDA did make their way back up and took the tournament. But what can you expect from the best clan on pc?

Anyway, UDDA subbed a guy out for a some what well known player that's got only console experience and he was scary good. won all of his single picks bar 2. one all of his anti ganks bar 2. Massively contributed to each team fight and actually dominated a few games. The tournament proved without a doubt that you can overcome consoles specific issues with a decent setup and actually practicing and knowing how to play the game.


Setting that aside the devs do not balance for console or pc specifically. There has been more than one change over FH's life span that benefit "casual" players over competitive ones. The most recent one being making GB's 100ms easier to tech. They are balancing with a specific vision in mind. If the devs actually listened to the hardcore players we'd be playing a very different game.
They also can't "balance for console" because console has inherent hardware issues that can only be midigated to a degree. Asking the devs to try and balance around abnormal setups/variables like latency is a joke. You always balance around the most ideal setup/situation. Because that's the situation the game is meant to be in.

Finally it's a nitpick of mine but you're only looking at balance in terms of raw power level. When balance encompasses more than that. Like learning/power curve, the design of the hero (is he fun to fight/use,) the difference between a fresh player versus a player who's mastered the hero. What's it like once the hero is mastered. etc. To be fair the devs are guilty of doing this as well a lot. And it's because of that AND the fact that they simply refuse to do proportionate changes to a hero when they make big changes to one is exactly why balance itself feels as bad as it does most days.

PK, Nobushi, Warlord are examples of where they took away more than they gave and they've never recovered. Raider's launch rework was an example of where they gave too much away and didn't take enough away. He still could use some significant changes on both sides of the spectrum. finally finally it doesn't have to be an us versus them situation. you can make games fun and easy to enter but competitive and skillful at the higher levels of play. A good fighter example of this is super smash brothers.

The devs can absolutely make changes to heros to make them more managable for the casual/console audience. they just have to also make sure to include a change that compensates that for high level of play as well. So I guess you can argue that the way the devs currently and usually design heros/reworks is done incorrectly. But you got the way they do it wrong. And are using some dated mindset.

Knight_Raime
08-31-2019, 04:57 PM
Dude telling that console is not an excuse is like walking around with lit matches in a room full of dynamites. Ppl here are mostly console ppl and they believe Console is much harder than PC

Majority of my opinion's are disliked here. I don't particularly care about that.
I'm not ignoring that console has problems.

I am saying that if you actually got good at the game and bought yourself a monitor, used a wired controller and a wired connection you'd have a comparable experience to playing for honor on a laptop/budget pc. ofc the input delay will still be slightly more than a decent pc. But it's something you could overcome/play around. If people don't want to they don't have to. I played a majority of my time on a standard console setup with a wired connection for every season baring the last few. And I was more than capable. But if people are actually serious about wanting a better experience so they can play this game more often then they need to put in the time to learn how to play and the money into getting a decent setup. Or just move over to pc whenever they make it free again again.

chaneke33
08-31-2019, 11:44 PM
Majority of my opinion's are disliked here. I don't particularly care about that.
I'm not ignoring that console has problems.

I am saying that if you actually got good at the game and bought yourself a monitor, used a wired controller and a wired connection you'd have a comparable experience to playing for honor on a laptop/budget pc. ofc the input delay will still be slightly more than a decent pc. But it's something you could overcome/play around. If people don't want to they don't have to. I played a majority of my time on a standard console setup with a wired connection for every season baring the last few. And I was more than capable. But if people are actually serious about wanting a better experience so they can play this game more often then they need to put in the time to learn how to play and the money into getting a decent setup. Or just move over to pc whenever they make it free again again.

And thinking that way is what breaks a community "if something doesn't troubles me, why should I care if it bothers everybody else?". I play wired on console, but there's still the frames issue, and as I said before, I'm far from being a Pro, but I'm good enough to still be able to enjoy the game, but I recognize that there's a lot of big issues with the way the game is been balanced now.
I'm not talking about raw power, the balance needed in the game needs depth and consistency, as any other good fighting game.
The game should be enjoyable at any level, not only high levels (here comes the matchmaking issues), but there are characters with an insane learning curve and other that are a safe win almost all the time, that should not happen. Every character should be deep enough to master it and not overcome player way above their level with no skill or practice needed, and many attacks make some characters unreactable on console while they are easy to counter on PC.
I never said that it was impossible to overcome, but the path the game is taking is taking it away from the larger payer base, thus making it something no one will care about soon.
Even AmonDarkGod, that supported some of what you said has posted about how the game is dying.
And responding "change to PC" is just plain stupid, I'm not changing my platform just to play one game, I have a love-hate relationship with For Honor, and I don't want to quit playing it, but if the changes get to a point where I can't enjoy playing anymore I will quit the game to never return, and If I get to that point, not even a sequel will get me back. Happened to me once with Destiny.
That is what's been happening to many players, casuals mostly, and that, as I said, is bad for business.

Knight_Raime
09-01-2019, 04:17 PM
And thinking that way is what breaks a community "if something doesn't troubles me, why should I care if it bothers everybody else?". I play wired on console, but there's still the frames issue, and as I said before, I'm far from being a Pro, but I'm good enough to still be able to enjoy the game, but I recognize that there's a lot of big issues with the way the game is been balanced now.
I'm not talking about raw power, the balance needed in the game needs depth and consistency, as any other good fighting game.
The game should be enjoyable at any level, not only high levels (here comes the matchmaking issues), but there are characters with an insane learning curve and other that are a safe win almost all the time, that should not happen. Every character should be deep enough to master it and not overcome player way above their level with no skill or practice needed, and many attacks make some characters unreactable on console while they are easy to counter on PC.
I never said that it was impossible to overcome, but the path the game is taking is taking it away from the larger payer base, thus making it something no one will care about soon.
Even AmonDarkGod, that supported some of what you said has posted about how the game is dying.
And responding "change to PC" is just plain stupid, I'm not changing my platform just to play one game, I have a love-hate relationship with For Honor, and I don't want to quit playing it, but if the changes get to a point where I can't enjoy playing anymore I will quit the game to never return, and If I get to that point, not even a sequel will get me back. Happened to me once with Destiny.
That is what's been happening to many players, casuals mostly, and that, as I said, is bad for business.

No. Me saying idc what someone thinks about my opinions isn't me saying that.
I'm saying i'm well aware of how terrible most players are because most players are not bothering to learn how to play.
They get mad at me because i'm not backing their whining.

For honor does have depth. Just all of that depth exists in team modes. For honor lacks mechanical/technical depth. Which won't ever change due to the way the base game mechanics are designed. This doesn't mean there isn't a learning curve to the game. It just means outside 4's the game is going to feel very stale and samey.
For honor isn't enjoyable at any level of play right now. And if you'd seen my first reply you should know that i'm actively advocating for having the experience be fun at all levels. My point is special attention is given at the top level because that's the height of the game. It's meant to attract players in. By allowing all of your best gameplay to exist at the starting line you burn the longevity of the game in the process.

I'd have to disagree heavily. Tournaments are happening much more frequently these days and while we haven't hit the level of attraction of season 2-3's? tournament we are seeing bigger numbers. I really would encourage you actually read my first response to you. My response wasn't "go pc lawl." It was "if you want to be serious about the game switch to pc." If you just want a better experience as a whole then using wired controller, connection and decent monitor will be more than enough to overcome most of the input delay console has.

Also the game's population isn't suffering in the slightest. Everyone making that claim is piggy backing off the idea that the devs only listen to the pros and all that other garbage that I already talked about. I have someone who regularly does population tests and the numbers have been strong. So unless he gives me data that says otherwise ya'll can continue to cry about the game's inevitable death like you have been since season 5. It's still never been true and never will be true.

chaneke33
09-01-2019, 05:25 PM
No. Me saying idc what someone thinks about my opinions isn't me saying that.
I'm saying i'm well aware of how terrible most players are because most players are not bothering to learn how to play.
They get mad at me because i'm not backing their whining.

For honor does have depth. Just all of that depth exists in team modes. For honor lacks mechanical/technical depth. Which won't ever change due to the way the base game mechanics are designed. This doesn't mean there isn't a learning curve to the game. It just means outside 4's the game is going to feel very stale and samey.
For honor isn't enjoyable at any level of play right now. And if you'd seen my first reply you should know that i'm actively advocating for having the experience be fun at all levels. My point is special attention is given at the top level because that's the height of the game. It's meant to attract players in. By allowing all of your best gameplay to exist at the starting line you burn the longevity of the game in the process.

I'd have to disagree heavily. Tournaments are happening much more frequently these days and while we haven't hit the level of attraction of season 2-3's? tournament we are seeing bigger numbers. I really would encourage you actually read my first response to you. My response wasn't "go pc lawl." It was "if you want to be serious about the game switch to pc." If you just want a better experience as a whole then using wired controller, connection and decent monitor will be more than enough to overcome most of the input delay console has.

Also the game's population isn't suffering in the slightest. Everyone making that claim is piggy backing off the idea that the devs only listen to the pros and all that other garbage that I already talked about. I have someone who regularly does population tests and the numbers have been strong. So unless he gives me data that says otherwise ya'll can continue to cry about the game's inevitable death like you have been since season 5. It's still never been true and never will be true.

It appears that we agree on more than we acknowledge, the game lacks depth in some departments, and the recently added characters, Hitokiri and Jorgunmander are the worst in that department, in 4v4 modes, they are safe to play.
It's great that a game has a learning curve, every fighting game does and to master even one character should be a good journey, sometimes painful, but painfully fun.
For Honor currently lacks that, I'm not saying that Ubisoft should listen to every complain about every character, but as I said in my first post, they should turn their heads to the larger played base, and listen to both ends, pros and casuals to get to an enjoyable for all middle point.
I'm not saying either that it's easier to play on PC, but technical specifications make the attacks a little more reactable. Not that you don't need practice to react on PC.
Practice will make any fighting game more enjoyable, but the point is, it should be equally enjoyable for everybody.
You said that if they attend to the console players they will be balancing with only one side of their population, but guess what? They already are doing that for PC.
This shouldn't be PC players VS Console players, but Ubisoft and their poor balancing job has made it so, the game, as I said, should be equally enjoyable for both types of platform.

chaneke33
09-02-2019, 06:38 AM
Maybe they should add 1 hero per 4v4 so just like brawls so there cant be multiple of same heroes in a team
I've always liked this idea

Valoredramack
09-02-2019, 01:27 PM
Maybe they should add 1 hero per 4v4 so just like brawls so there cant be multiple of same heroes in a team

I am fine with one unique hero per team in 4v4 ONLY if the players get to select their hero PRIOR to matchmaking. I don't want to have to be in the Player Select screen in which everyone is trying to race to choose their favorite hero before it gets locked out by someone else, because that's a frustrating way to go about it. I have seen games that use both of those approaches and choosing heroes before matchmaking is much less stressful.

Plus, this would allow Ubisoft to establish a more accurate matchmaking process which takes into account the K/D ratio of the specific hero you selected, instead of weighing our skill level without taking into account whether we're using our main hero that we dominate with vs a hero that we've never even played before or that we're terrible with.


Matchmaking for player skill without even taking into account our experience with specific heroes is like trying to estimate which athlete has the higher skill in a marathon run without taking into account whether the athlete is an NBA player, NFL player, MLB player, or an Olympic Gold Medalist Runner.

In other words, our hero picks do have a pretty significant impact on our performance since it directly relates to experience and skill.

V1vson
09-02-2019, 04:52 PM
Forget about balance, There is no balance in this game anymore.
Heavy heroes got extremely fast LA, even assassins cannot compare. Heroes like Aramusha is a funny joke and nobody wants to rework or at least buff them.

Seems there are no budget for balancing team, so play OP and competitive characters S-A rank or prepare to s**k hard.

papa_joseph1
09-03-2019, 04:22 AM
I've come to the conclusion that Ubisoft is going to be putting For Honor out to pasture in the coming years, the dev team is shrinking, the time between meaningful updates keeps getting longer and each new hero that gets added is lazier and lazier with each update, when at a corperate level they start swinging the axe on things, they do tests to see if the game can continue living.

How many times have they given For Honor away for free of late?

As for your other addresses? basically the devs think if shield bash annoys you, git gud, instead of focusing on the bash heavy meta of this game, they choose to ignore it and give no punishment for abusing a system they created.
Raider is not broken and so on and so forth, basicly no play testing is why the game looks like it does today.