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Demiz3r
08-19-2019, 10:39 AM
Luke Smith recently released a three-part director's cut; a reflection of the last 6 months of Destiny 2: Forsaken. Luke Smith is the Game Director at Bungie. Luke Smith expressed the faults in the current state of Destiny and solutions and plans to overcome them. An unprecedented, level of transparency to a vocal community. The Destiny community got access to his vision for Destiny and his plans to move Destiny forward. It's interesting. The Division's community needs this level of transparency. We need something from leadership because this community is beyond frustrated with the lack of communication of plans to address the core issues in the game. What are your plans to address Loot, RNG, End-game RPG, etc? We know you guys are prioritizing these issues and another ETF is on the horizon. What about the Dark Zone and we were promised a SOTG from Redstorm to talk about PvP. Well, that didn't happen and there is still no response about the clan vendor giving out the best gear in the game for being in a low level clan that encourages clan hopping. Despite the complaints across social media, Reddit, youtube, and this forum. Step up on your community management. Give us hope and give us a reason to not give up on you. Below are links to all three parts of the director's cut. It's a long read but it speaks volumes.



Part 1:
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/48058

Part 2:
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/48064

Part 3:
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/48072

P:S I'm becoming a Bungie fanboy because they are doing right by their community.

Freudian-Slips
08-19-2019, 11:03 AM
Iv'e read a lot of it if not all and I picked out something that is relevant to all games of this type including Div 2 ergo the paragraphs below this and the bold especially.


The Pursuit of Power: Increasing Player Agency
We’d like the act of chasing Power and stats for your build to be something you have a bit more agency over. Not a full-blown “play whatever you want all the time”—because that means people just find the most efficient thing, rather than dipping their toes into a bunch of different activities—but certainly less restrictive than it’s been in the past.

We’ve also had a long-standing challenge in Destiny of making XP matter, and that feels like a real growth opportunity for us to dig into something we’ve wanted to look at for a while.

This section discusses Power and the changes coming to it this Fall.

Part I: Powerful Sources, Primes, and the World
Like I mentioned in Part I, the number of powerful sources in Destiny 2 ballooned during the annual pass. We’re curating down the sources in Shadowkeep. Our target is to get the number of powerful sources closer to Forsaken-launch levels. In Forsaken, as you over-leveled an activity (meaning your Power gets higher than the activity), the activity’s rewards would become less valuable (the inverse was also true for being under-leveled). In Shadowkeep, we’ve changed that. Instead, the system will advertise a consistent expected powerful reward, regardless of your Power relative to it.

World Drops
As far as contributing to your Power level, world drops often feel like a waste. To get away from that, we’ve made some changes that allow these drops to help players progress beyond the soft cap. World drops in Shadowkeep will have a chance to drop at a player’s current Power level.

Here’s an example: A player has an overall Power level of 912. Gloves are their lowest slot at 906. A player might open a Legendary engram and receive 912 gloves (an increase of 6 Power).

We’re making this change because we feel like the world Legendaries are a little undervalued at the moment. This isn’t some grand accelerant for Power progression, but rather a little quality-of-life experiment to reward your free-roaming adventures or random Legendary-activity drops.

Demiz3r
08-19-2019, 11:42 AM
Now compare that level of transparency to this response.


Gear acquisition in general and the Endgame RPG, alongside the inventory management, are the top priorities for the next update.

Just smh.

You can see Luke smith's passion for Destiny in his writing. I would love to read something from Terry Spier about the flaws of PvP and the dark zones in TD2. His vision, his solutions and plans to overcome these issues surrounding the DZ and PvP. I think the community will be very understanding if we get a breakdown of how they are addressing these issues.

Merphee
08-19-2019, 12:14 PM
Honestly, I don't even play Destiny anymore, but will still click on a Destiny video in my sub box. I just like to see what's happening with it. :rolleyes:

YodaMan 3D
08-19-2019, 12:39 PM
I think part of the issue is their player base is larger then their vision. Like in TD, their vision was all about the DZ and players ganking other players. They ignored those that wasn't in the DZ and their response was if you don't like the DZ then this isn't the game for you. They never advertised that they had a narrow vision of what they expected the players to do. In TD2, it seems more guided by PvE and Raids. They don't want to say if you aren't part of that you can leave now and thanks for the money. Instead if they are silent and just let their fans fight it out, they'll reward the winner in the next sequel and they aren't taking sides, they are just following their vision. They hear what they want to hear and ignore what they don't.

RushLoongHammer
08-19-2019, 01:23 PM
Communicating has been an issue with the Division's team since the first game.

I've been play Destiny a lot more. The armour changes coming in Shadow Keep seems pretty good.
Also Path of Exile is an awesome game. The amount of freedom to build how you want is awesome.

F.i.x.e.r
08-19-2019, 01:57 PM
Might just dust off my warlock. Haven't played that game since the Forges.

riffgod
08-19-2019, 04:16 PM
Destiny wasn't that way at launch, or was Destiny 2 .. it took them over a year to start getting things back into shape (even longer in D1 with the release of Taken King) ... division is just now hitting six months. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

NLxAROSA
08-19-2019, 04:48 PM
Destiny wasn't that way at launch, or was Destiny 2 .. it took them over a year to start getting things back into shape (even longer in D1 with the release of Taken King) ... division is just now hitting six months. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

Not to mention they didn't communicatie at all until they got out of Activision. Before that it was zero, nada, zilch. But that's of course conveniently 'forgotten' in this topic because people want to push a narrative.

Not saying that communication couldn't be better but to compare TD2 to D2 when D2 had zero endgame at launch, didn't communicatie anything and then hold them as some kind of gold standard is just rediculous.

Hiero_Glyph
08-19-2019, 04:49 PM
This is an apples and oranges comparison.

The thing is that you don't need to wait 6 months or over a year to have good communication; that's something that you can have even before a game releases.

Helgerd123
08-19-2019, 05:02 PM
Destiny wasn't that way at launch, or was Destiny 2 .. it took them over a year to start getting things back into shape (even longer in D1 with the release of Taken King) ... division is just now hitting six months. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

You should stop this outright. This game didn't pop out of nowhere developed by indie team as their first attempt to make video games. It was developed as successor of previous part by the same developer backed by almost unlimited money of big game publisher and was portrait as "Lessons were learned we would like to reset initial bad impression and make it good game with initial good impression". And now people come talking "it is only XXX month old". Truth is - XXX in this motot is raising while improvements are yet remain to be seen. And that doesn't include the fact that product should be shipped developed instead of beta-testing on customers.

riffgod
08-19-2019, 05:15 PM
The thing is that you don't need to wait 6 months or over a year to have good communication; that's something that you can have even before a game releases.

Don't disagree that the communication can be better; and that you shouldn't have to wait to get it. But the post is comparing Destiny to Division ... in which Destiny took a very long time to get it right. And if you use that as a reference, then division being only six months old would be a leaps and bounds ahead of Destiny at the same point in their launch timeline. Hence, apples and oranges.

I am personally rooting for the division team to make this happen, as I really do feel like the game as tremendous amount of potential. The primary issue in my opinion, is that the core issue with the game revolves around the RNG / Looting, which is quite literally at the core of the game and touches almost every aspect. A solution for this is not easy nor quick, and the community needs to adjust their exceptions for this accordingly. Destiny 2 launched with absolutely **** gear and weapons, and it took them almost a year to come up with a solution that was really what the community wanted .. first they started with Masterworks, which did not work (especially from a grinding perspective) ... then they finally brought back randomized rolls and things started getting better. For this reason, I believe the Division Team is being very careful in promising or discussing the topic because they don't want to be in the same position of promising something that really didn't work or was really well thought out (aka masterworks).

DarkKnight27us
08-19-2019, 06:28 PM
I would love to read something from Terry Spier about the flaws of PvP and the dark zones in TD2. His vision, his solutions and plans to overcome these issues surrounding the DZ and PvP. I think the community will be very understanding if we get a breakdown of how they are addressing these issues.

I wouldn't. If that guy had his way all the best loot would be hard locked behind the DZ and the rogues would be able to spawn camp a single entrance to the DZ. The entire Red Storm dev team comes across as a bunch of toxic players who just want to create the most toxic PvP environment they can think of. They would destroy the game if they were left to do it on their own.

YodaMan 3D
08-19-2019, 06:57 PM
I wouldn't. If that guy had his way all the best loot would be hard locked behind the DZ and the rogues would be able to spawn camp a single entrance to the DZ. The entire Red Storm dev team comes across as a bunch of toxic players who just want to create the most toxic PvP environment they can think of. They would destroy the game if they were left to do it on their own.

A lot like the Devs behind the Raid and their locked content.

Demiz3r
08-19-2019, 08:25 PM
I think part of the issue is their player base is larger then their vision. Like in TD, their vision was all about the DZ and players ganking other players. They ignored those that wasn't in the DZ and their response was if you don't like the DZ then this isn't the game for you. They never advertised that they had a narrow vision of what they expected the players to do. In TD2, it seems more guided by PvE and Raids. They don't want to say if you aren't part of that you can leave now and thanks for the money. Instead if they are silent and just let their fans fight it out, they'll reward the winner in the next sequel and they aren't taking sides, they are just following their vision. They hear what they want to hear and ignore what they don't.

You might be right...


Destiny wasn't that way at launch, or was Destiny 2 .. it took them over a year to start getting things back into shape (even longer in D1 with the release of Taken King) ... division is just now hitting six months. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

No, it's not. Both games suffer the same issues with End Game RPG, Content droughts, Gear acquisition, etc but that's not the point of this discussion. The point is communication. Bungie is making the attempt to be transparent with their community. I see Bungie's community managers always interacting and memeing with their community across Reddit, Twitter. Management and the community team for the division are still keeping us in the dark. They hardly interact with us at all. Our community managers Amper and Johan don't even interact with us on the forum anymore. Amper will interact with you on his Friday stream. Sometimes Terry will pop in. They just post announcements and news on the forum. Where's Petter? Hamish and Yannick aren't even community developers anymore. They are just "content specialist" Chris Gansler is somewhat active on Reddit. Fredrik and Realdude are the only ones that are always interacting with the community over issues. I have mad respect for RealDude for being active on this forum and asking questions to keep the discussions going. Even though, some of his questions can be ridiculous. He's doing his job and He only can do so much. I think CM Alien is filling in for someone. In my opinion, the community side of things is severely lacking. Communication can be 100% better if they put any effort into it.

DarkKnight27us
08-19-2019, 10:17 PM
You might be right...



No, it's not. Both games suffer the same issues with End Game RPG, Content droughts, Gear acquisition, etc but that's not the point of this discussion. The point is communication. Bungie is making the attempt to be transparent with their community. I see Bungie's community managers always interacting and memeing with their community across Reddit, Twitter. Management and the community team for the division are still keeping us in the dark. They hardly interact with us at all. Our community managers Amper and Johan don't even interact with us on the forum anymore. Amper will interact with you on his Friday stream. Sometimes Terry will pop in. They just post announcements and news on the forum. Where's Petter? Hamish and Yannick aren't even community developers anymore. They are just "content specialist" Chris Gansler is somewhat active on Reddit. Fredrik and Realdude are the only ones that are always interacting with the community over issues. I have mad respect for RealDude for being active on this forum and asking questions to keep the discussions going. Even though, some of his questions can be ridiculous. He's doing his job and He only can do so much. I think CM Alien is filling in for someone. In my opinion, the community side of things is severely lacking. Communication can be 100% better if they put any effort into it.

Another game to look at for amazing community engagement (and I do mean AMAZING) is Warframe. They have some of the best constant community engagement I've ever seen.

DarkKnight27us
08-19-2019, 10:18 PM
A lot like the Devs behind the Raid and their locked content.

Are you still on about the raid? Have you been able to name one game that doesn't have rewards for a raid exclusive to that raid yet?

If not... you really need to stop bringing this up.

F.i.x.e.r
08-19-2019, 11:33 PM
You might be right...



No, it's not. Both games suffer the same issues with End Game RPG, Content droughts, Gear acquisition, etc but that's not the point of this discussion. The point is communication. Bungie is making the attempt to be transparent with their community. I see Bungie's community managers always interacting and memeing with their community across Reddit, Twitter. Management and the community team for the division are still keeping us in the dark. They hardly interact with us at all. Our community managers Amper and Johan don't even interact with us on the forum anymore. Amper will interact with you on his Friday stream. Sometimes Terry will pop in. They just post announcements and news on the forum. Where's Petter? Hamish and Yannick aren't even community developers anymore. They are just "content specialist" Chris Gansler is somewhat active on Reddit. Fredrik and Realdude are the only ones that are always interacting with the community over issues. I have mad respect for RealDude for being active on this forum and asking questions to keep the discussions going. Even though, some of his questions can be ridiculous. He's doing his job and He only can do so much. I think CM Alien is filling in for someone. In my opinion, the community side of things is severely lacking. Communication can be 100% better if they put any effort into it.
They (Bungie) have definitely improved their communications with their player base I'll give you that, but today I dropped TD2 and spent a day on Destiny 2 and quite honestly it didn't turn me on too much. They are in the middle of a solstice event right now that is a change from the rest of the game and they have raised the level cap, but outside of that it is the same as when I left it at the release of the forges.

YodaMan 3D
08-20-2019, 12:06 AM
Are you still on about the raid? Have you been able to name one game that doesn't have rewards for a raid exclusive to that raid yet?

If not... you really need to stop bringing this up.

You still haven't shown me the Rulebook On Raids, that states that Ubi and Massive has to lock content. So when you accept that Ubi and Massive don't have to follow your made up rules. Then we can move on.

Demiz3r
08-20-2019, 11:02 AM
Another game to look at for amazing community engagement (and I do mean AMAZING) is Warframe. They have some of the best constant community engagement I've ever seen.

Digital Extremes is a great indie studio. Their community team is awesome! The fact that an indie studio has a better community engagement than AAA company is beyond me.


They (Bungie) have definitely improved their communications with their player base I'll give you that, but today I dropped TD2 and spent a day on Destiny 2 and quite honestly it didn't turn me on too much. They are in the middle of a solstice event right now that is a change from the rest of the game and they have raised the level cap, but outside of that it is the same as when I left it at the release of the forges.

I disagree with your notion that the season of opulence is like Black Armory. Menagerie and Corrow of Sorrow Raid are great activities. Menagerie is one of the best activities that was implemented in a looter shooter. You should really try out the new activities. Gambit Prime is fun. If you like the whisper mission, you will like zero hour. I am overwhelmed with activities to do in a week.(daily and weekly challenges/bounties, farming for god roll weapons for PvE and PVP, raids, master working my gear. I am still hunting for raid exclusive exotics. There is so much to do. I like the grind. :cool: I get it. Destiny 2 isn't for everyone. Shadowkeep will change everything. The Season of Opulence is by far the best season of year 2.


Back to the topic.

Would you guys like to have an exposition from leadership about acknowledging the issues, their plans to address those issues and the path forward?

LubzinNJ
08-20-2019, 11:45 AM
Digital Extremes is a great indie studio. Their community team is awesome! The fact that an indie studio has a better community engagement than AAA company is beyond me.



I disagree with your notion that the season of opulence is like Black Armory. Menagerie and Corrow of Sorrow Raid are great activities. Menagerie is one of the best activities that was implemented in a looter shooter. You should really try out the new activities. Gambit Prime is fun. If you like the whisper mission, you will like zero hour. I am overwhelmed with activities to do in a week.(daily and weekly challenges/bounties, farming for god roll weapons for PvE and PVP, raids, master working my gear. I am still hunting for raid exclusive exotics. There is so much to do. I like the grind. :cool: I get it. Destiny 2 isn't for everyone. Shadowkeep will change everything. The Season of Opulence is by far the best season of year 2.


Back to the topic.

Would you guys like to have an exposition from leadership about acknowledging the issues, their plans to address those issues and the path forward?

Digital Extremes sells their game by being free to play with a buy in for cosmetics and also gear that is reasonably grindable with a path to get it, but if you want to skip the grind you can....and at the end of the day all you're getting is a PvE experience. The comparisons between Warframe and Division need to stop because they are so incomparable on so many levels that it's insulting.

Synthrider83
08-20-2019, 12:13 PM
Agreed. At a time when communication with their player base is vital for the future of their game, instead they decide to go M.I.A. Best thing u can do, is just ignore them back. If enough players do the same, They will be backed into a corner they may not be able to get out of. Personally, I will be purchasing Shadowkeep. Maybe when that comes out, Massive will come out of their hole.

F.i.x.e.r
08-20-2019, 01:35 PM
Agreed. At a time when communication with their player base is vital for the future of their game, instead they decide to go M.I.A. Best thing u can do, is just ignore them back. If enough players do the same, They will be backed into a corner they may not be able to get out of. Personally, I will be purchasing Shadowkeep. Maybe when that comes out, Massive will come out of their hole.
Trouble is, I think too many players are ignoring them i.e. Not playing TD2 because it is getting harder and harder to find players on matchmaking outside of the dailies and the first few days after reset and even then day time hours is pretty quiet. Having said that, it makes me sad because (IMO) this game has got it right when it comes to difficulty design and has finally gone away from the "perpetual spawning and bullet sponge" mechanic favouring the more tactical way the NPCs behave and along with the superior graphics is a way better game than Destiny 2 where the amount of perpetual spawning and and bullet sponge is the method of difficulty level control.

However, I do not want to high jack the op's subject any more and apologies for going off topic. Yes I would like to see the level of communication coming from Bungie over here because much as I like this game, it needs a lot of fixing and I would like to know what the devs are going to do about it in more detail than a brief statement that a few things are their priority for the next update with absolutely no details.

LubzinNJ
08-20-2019, 01:38 PM
Kind of sad that there isn't even a response to this from a rep. Speaks volumes.

Ubi-Alien
08-20-2019, 03:35 PM
I have to say they did an amazing job.
Personally, I'm a fan of Bungie and I really appreciate their work (communication-wise and on a professional level).

That being said, we noticed how much you appreciated posts like these, that actually gives you more insights behind the process of identifying and dealing with a specific issue: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/2092072-The-rocky-history-of-the-Reviver-Hive

I can't promise you anything but just for your information, I'm passing your feedback.

Thanks for bringing this up :)

III_Hammer_III
08-20-2019, 03:57 PM
Perhaps Massive could host a webinar, with Powerpoints... maybe allow people to join the scrum call :p


OP is over-romanticizing the videos.

MutantCowboy x
08-20-2019, 04:04 PM
Luke Smith recently released a three-part director's cut; a reflection of the last 6 months of Destiny 2: Forsaken. Luke Smith is the Game Director at Bungie. Luke Smith expressed the faults in the current state of Destiny and solutions and plans to overcome them. An unprecedented, level of transparency to a vocal community. The Destiny community got access to his vision for Destiny and his plans to move Destiny forward. It's interesting. The Division's community needs this level of transparency. We need something from leadership because this community is beyond frustrated with the lack of communication of plans to address the core issues in the game. What are your plans to address Loot, RNG, End-game RPG, etc? We know you guys are prioritizing these issues and another ETF is on the horizon. What about the Dark Zone and we were promised a SOTG from Redstorm to talk about PvP. Well, that didn't happen and there is still no response about the clan vendor giving out the best gear in the game for being in a low level clan that encourages clan hopping. Despite the complaints across social media, Reddit, youtube, and this forum. Step up on your community management. Give us hope and give us a reason to not give up on you. Below are links to all three parts of the director's cut. It's a long read but it speaks volumes.



Part 1:
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/48058

Part 2:
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/48064

Part 3:
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/Article/48072

P:S I'm becoming a Bungie fanboy because they are doing right by their community.

You know that Luke Smith has been and is still considered by many to be the biggest D-bag in video games right? He actually talked about players throwing money at the screen because of how awesome the micro-transactions were in the original game. I don't give a single turd what anyone at Bungie says. Released product is all that matters and I have not had fun in destiny since the last original raid.

Honestly I don't care about transparency, why should I? Is this the 2016 election? Transparency is a buzz word used to hook the feeble minded into thinking they are doing everything for you. When in reality it is just another type of promotional gimmick like the ETF. I would much rather have a good game that feels fun, interesting, rewarding, and with a touch of elitism. Then to be sold a garbage product and asked or told how it would, could, someday, maybe, be fixed.

DarkKnight27us
08-20-2019, 04:41 PM
Would you guys like to have an exposition from leadership about acknowledging the issues, their plans to address those issues and the path forward?

Simple answer: YES!!

Complicated answer: YES!!

Look, most of the people here seem to be able to understand that Massive can't just say everything about the game that they have planned, but an honest, open, and direct conversation about some of the problems the game has with Hammish on an hour long SotG or something would go a long way.

Having more community interaction is pretty much never a bad thing unless the devs are being dishonest.

DarkKnight27us
08-20-2019, 04:50 PM
Digital Extremes sells their game by being free to play with a buy in for cosmetics and also gear that is reasonably grindable with a path to get it, but if you want to skip the grind you can....and at the end of the day all you're getting is a PvE experience. The comparisons between Warframe and Division need to stop because they are so incomparable on so many levels that it's insulting.

You're going to have to explain this to me. How exactly is comparing two games that are both looter shooters "insulting"? Especially in regards to the communications that the two companies have with their players?

Freudian-Slips
08-20-2019, 05:13 PM
Released product is all that matters and I have not had fun in destiny since the last original raid.


I agree the Released product is the most important thing (sadly this day and age we will forever get unfinished) Live service games. (unless come November Hideo Kojima's new game is a masterpiece) one I don't think it'll be a live service and two it's Hideo Kojima one of the most if not the most respected figure in video gaming, (God I hope Death Stranding is good)

Secondly ahh! the feels and memories going into the VoG blind for the very first time, then Crota's end and then Kings Fall, but for me the VoG and my first venture in with my friends will always be the best moment iv'e had in a game.

III_Hammer_III
08-20-2019, 05:15 PM
Would you guys like to have an exposition from leadership about acknowledging the issues, their plans to address those issues and the path forward?

So what you really want is a mea culpa. Because you are not going to get a detailed report of the actual steps they are taking to address anything, or a timeline, beyond a "we are working on X; our priority is Y".

What's wrong with this statement?
Gear acquisition in general and the Endgame RPG, alongside the inventory management, are the top priorities for the next update.


Surely it isn't wordy, but we understand what "gear acquisition" means, don't we? Or do you need a detailed explanation of what "gear acquisition" means? It's already one more word than what we all use in the forum, "loot". Same with "endgame RPG", same with "inventory management".

And if they were to tell you in detail what steps they are taking, what are you going to do? Come here and post your displeasure at the steps. Unless they happen to do exactly what you want, in which case you'll pronounce how they "learned their lesson".

The game has been out for 6 months, they had released 5 updates. There will be a PTS when update 6 is ready to go into the PTS, That's your disclosure right there. Not very many games have test servers.

Demiz3r
08-20-2019, 07:22 PM
You know that Luke Smith has been and is still considered by many to be the biggest D-bag in video games right? He actually talked about players throwing money at the screen because of how awesome the micro-transactions were in the original game. I don't give a single turd what anyone at Bungie says. Released product is all that matters and I have not had fun in destiny since the last original raid.

Honestly I don't care about transparency, why should I? Is this the 2016 election? Transparency is a buzz word used to hook the feeble minded into thinking they are doing everything for you. When in reality it is just another type of promotional gimmick like the ETF. I would much rather have a good game that feels fun, interesting, rewarding, and with a touch of elitism. Then to be sold a garbage product and asked or told how it would, could, someday, maybe, be fixed.

What are you on about? You are taking things out of context. You totally missed the point of this thread. TD2 is a released product...I prefer a polished product over a release product any day. I for one care about transparency and community engagement. Community engagement is important to keep this live service games afloat.



So what you really want is a mea culpa. Because you are not going to get a detailed report of the actual steps they are taking to address anything, or a timeline, beyond a "we are working on X; our priority is Y".

What's wrong with this statement?
Gear acquisition in general and the Endgame RPG, alongside the inventory management, are the top priorities for the next update.


Surely it isn't wordy, but we understand what "gear acquisition" means, don't we? Or do you need a detailed explanation of what "gear acquisition" means? It's already one more word than what we all use in the forum, "loot". Same with "endgame RPG", same with "inventory management".

And if they were to tell you in detail what steps they are taking, what are you going to do? Come here and post your displeasure at the steps. Unless they happen to do exactly what you want, in which case you'll pronounce how they "learned their lesson".

The game has been out for 6 months, they had released 5 updates. There will be a PTS when update 6 is ready to go into the PTS, That's your disclosure right there. Not very many games have test servers.

No one is asking for a detailed report.
I'm going to quote Ubi-Alien here.


That being said, we noticed how much you appreciated posts like these, that actually gives you more insights behind the process of identifying and dealing with a specific issue: https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.ph...e-Reviver-Hive

I can't promise you anything but just for your information, I'm passing your feedback.

Thanks for bringing this up

I appreciated posts that actually give us insights behind the process of identifying and dealing with a specific issue. It's a pretty reasonable request to ask the community team and management for posts like this one https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/2092072-The-rocky-history-of-the-Reviver-Hive. is it not a reasonable request to ask to get a similar post about gear acquisition or End Game RPG?

I don't understand why you have to be a toxic **** about it.

DarkKnight27us
08-20-2019, 07:27 PM
I don't understand why you have to be a toxic **** about it.

Because being toxic and hateful to a popular game or product is the new cool on the Internet. Cool kids don't like anything, ever.

Demiz3r
08-20-2019, 07:34 PM
Perhaps Massive could host a webinar, with Powerpoints... maybe allow people to join the scrum call :p


OP is over-romanticizing the videos.


Clearly, you didn't click on the links because they are not videos.
It's literally a 2000 word reflection on the Destiny 2 in last few months and their plans to address issues in the game and where destiny is heading next.
Maybe you should read the thing before throwing out shade around.

Demiz3r
08-20-2019, 07:39 PM
Because being toxic and hateful to a popular game or product is the new cool on the Internet. Cool kids don't like anything, ever.

"***-hats" ;)

Ubi-RealDude
08-20-2019, 08:21 PM
I appreciated posts that actually give us insights behind the process of identifying and dealing with a specific issue. It's a pretty reasonable request to ask the community team and management for posts like this one https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/2092072-The-rocky-history-of-the-Reviver-Hive. is it not a reasonable request to ask to get a similar post about gear acquisition or End Game RPG?


Something to keep in mind is that these types of posts can take a long time to write and edit to convey pretty technical info in relatively bite-sized chunks. Even this article, which a lot of you guys seemed to appreciate, is pretty long for even a singular mechanical issue.

Topics like Gear acquisition and End Game RPG are significantly larger overarching systems that go far deeper and cover much more ground than the complications of one skill acting weirdly. That said, I do want to echo Ubi-Alien's point that we definitely notice how much you all welcome such detailed posts, and we are keeping your feedback in mind as we move forward.

xcel30
08-20-2019, 08:31 PM
Something to keep in mind is that these types of posts can take a long time to write and edit to convey pretty technical info in relatively bite-sized chunks. Even this article, which a lot of you guys seemed to appreciate, is pretty long for even a singular mechanical issue.

Topics like Gear acquisition and End Game RPG are significantly larger overarching systems that go far deeper and cover much more ground than the complications of one skill acting weirdly. That said, I do want to echo Ubi-Alien's point that we definitely notice how much you all welcome such detailed posts, and we are keeping your feedback in mind as we move forward.

Well many people end up having their own view on what the game's intention on is, even having small comments on those is nice to engage the feedback on the right track.

Let's take Rifles for examples, i still not sure if they are trying to compete with ARs sustained fire damage or snipers long range support, they have the fire rate to compete with ARs but being semi auto forces a bit of stress on players (mostly their fingers to reach those rof), if they are meant to be resemble a bit more snipers for longer range support decreasing their rof to improve damage may get better results instead. Since i don't know the dev intention behind this weapon i can't give a good feedback if the weapon is doing the job right. More posts about game mechanics help wit that.

Ubi-RealDude
08-20-2019, 08:53 PM
Well many people end up having their own view on what the game's intention on is, even having small comments on those is nice to engage the feedback on the right track.

[...]

More posts about game mechanics help wit that.

I might personally disagree with you on this but it also may just come down to a matter of philosophy. There are some topics that are less universal than others in their degree of subjectivity. (Example: Loot impacts literally every player at every stage vs. Rifles which only impact players who use them when they are on par with the content.)

There can be topics that too much info can color your experience, consciously or not. A similar principle is usually at play with blind play tests - not knowing 100% of the intention can (again, this is in some cases, not all) give more insightful feedback on the experience as a whole rather than individuals addressing what they believe is being looked for.

But now I'm starting to ramble off-topic. Hope this made sense.

xcel30
08-20-2019, 09:45 PM
No problem, getting more insight helps, just saying that devs shouldn't be shy when wanting people to test something, i know that is the point of the PTS and that some topics are too abragent in many aspects, but the reviver hive is good example of if something is too troubleome in the long run talking about it could clear the situation a bit better

Demiz3r
08-20-2019, 09:56 PM
Something to keep in mind is that these types of posts can take a long time to write and edit to convey pretty technical info in relatively bite-sized chunks. Even this article, which a lot of you guys seemed to appreciate, is pretty long for even a singular mechanical issue.

Topics like Gear acquisition and End Game RPG are significantly larger overarching systems that go far deeper and cover much more ground than the complications of one skill acting weirdly. That said, I do want to echo Ubi-Alien's point that we definitely notice how much you all welcome such detailed posts, and we are keeping your feedback in mind as we move forward.


Thanks for the response. I totally get that detailed posts about specific issue take a long time to write and edit to convey technical information. These types of posts are impactful to discussions and community engagement. It gives us the ability to provide you targeted feedback - a way to consolidate feedback. End Game RPG and Gear acquisition are definitely broad systems. Once you lay out the foundation of your plans and design philosophy to address a specific issue. For example, gear acquisition. The community can respond and provide you specific feedback to make it better for all players.

As xcel30 said above, it could clear the situation better than saying "we are looking into it".

SHDLBC
08-20-2019, 10:03 PM
I think that Massive can communicate well, though it has seemed a bit spotty for sure.

I think back to the Special Report streams they did before 1.4 hit in TD1. The thing that really got me excited was that they had a video showing the time to kill and time to be killed between 1.3 and the build for 1.4. Of course that was one of the biggest issues the game had at that time. There was another stream where they gave us a first look at 1.4 in game and introduced some of the mechanics that were being added (field proficiency caches) and fixed (potential for better drops from lower level enemies etc.).

Those were great, and all of that was at least partially the result of the first ETF, so I do feel like theyíll get it right. I know itís been frustrating lately with SOTG on hiatus and such. Iím waiting to hear something, anything, too. I hope, and I think, that it will be forthcoming.

Ubi-RealDude
08-20-2019, 10:04 PM
As xcel30 says above, it could clear the situation better than saying "we are looking into it".

For sure - and especially with the SotG hiatus I can understand the frustration. We really do appreciate your patience (tested though it may be) as you bear with us on this in the interim between announcements and articles.

Demiz3r
08-21-2019, 08:33 AM
For sure - and especially with the SotG hiatus I can understand the frustration. We really do appreciate your patience (tested though it may be) as you bear with us on this in the interim between announcements and articles.

Thank you for understanding.
I would love to get an insightful post from Terry Spier about DZ and PvP. I want to understand his philosophy on improving the player experience for the DZ and PvP. It could shed light on everyone to be more constructive and less toxic. :D

riffgod
08-21-2019, 03:50 PM
You should stop this outright. This game didn't pop out of nowhere developed by indie team as their first attempt to make video games. It was developed as successor of previous part by the same developer backed by almost unlimited money of big game publisher and was portrait as "Lessons were learned we would like to reset initial bad impression and make it good game with initial good impression". And now people come talking "it is only XXX month old". Truth is - XXX in this motot is raising while improvements are yet remain to be seen. And that doesn't include the fact that product should be shipped developed instead of beta-testing on customers.

No it didn't, and neither did the Destiny(s) .. which was the original point. They are both large, and they are both having the same issues. Destiny 1 took literally years to get things right and they did it in a very big way with Taken King ... Destiny 2 is still getting there, but on their way, again years after launch. Division 2 is in the same position as Destiny 2 six months after launch ... literally the same position. The first expansion for Destiny 2 LITERALLY took 4 hours to complete front to back .. the community was pissed. Especially when they had been complaining about the standardized rolls across all gear sets, and lack of diversity. It was almost like Bungie wasn't listening at all .. then to compound things, they brought out Masterworks, which they thought would address the gear issue, in much the same way that UbiSoft updated their recalibration logic to give a score instead of being able to roll an actual value ... etc etc

These two games are about as close as you can get to following the same path; which is the point of comparison. We are not saying we agree or we like it ... just that it is the same. In addition, you really need to reset your expectations of how difficult it is to fix something like the RNG issue. This is at the very core of the game, and quite literally impacts every aspect of it ... it took years to develop the game, so changing a core aspect of it will take time .. and this includes analyzing potential options. I would rather have them say that they are looking at it consistently than to promise me something that in the end does not work as expected because it was rushed.

riffgod
08-21-2019, 03:55 PM
You might be right...



No, it's not. Both games suffer the same issues with End Game RPG, Content droughts, Gear acquisition, etc but that's not the point of this discussion. The point is communication. Bungie is making the attempt to be transparent with their community. I see Bungie's community managers always interacting and memeing with their community across Reddit, Twitter. Management and the community team for the division are still keeping us in the dark. They hardly interact with us at all. Our community managers Amper and Johan don't even interact with us on the forum anymore. Amper will interact with you on his Friday stream. Sometimes Terry will pop in. They just post announcements and news on the forum. Where's Petter? Hamish and Yannick aren't even community developers anymore. They are just "content specialist" Chris Gansler is somewhat active on Reddit. Fredrik and Realdude are the only ones that are always interacting with the community over issues. I have mad respect for RealDude for being active on this forum and asking questions to keep the discussions going. Even though, some of his questions can be ridiculous. He's doing his job and He only can do so much. I think CM Alien is filling in for someone. In my opinion, the community side of things is severely lacking. Communication can be 100% better if they put any effort into it.

Yes, the point of the discussion is about being transparent. But Bungie was not that way at the launch of D1 or D2. That is the point. It took a massive uproar from the community in both instances for Bungie to come to the table and start being more transparent .. that is the exact same progression that is playing out with TD2. The companies are literally cloning each other in that respect, but not because of malice in my opinion, because of the complexity of the situation they are trying to address.

III_Hammer_III
08-21-2019, 05:53 PM
I don't understand why you have to be a toxic **** about it.

Oh. I am a toxic **** because I disagree with you.

GG.

Avethebabe
08-21-2019, 09:32 PM
As someone said earlier, it's kind of eerie how both games are on such a similar path.

Both vanilla games got to a really nice place. Lessons learned.

Then along come sequels that were so mind boggling different from their predecessors, changing things no one ever asked for or complained about, worthless generic loot, etc...

There have been plenty of long silent stretches from Bungie as well, even during times when the game was in a bad state and the community in an uproar.

I liked what Luke did. But it's been a long time coming and Shadowkeep better be on point. Let's treat this for what it is: a new beginning...again.

I'll need to see some consistency from both developers in regards to communication, and to fixing mistakes.

Don't ask Massive to be like Bungie. Ask them to be better.