PDA

View Full Version : Nakajima ki-43 Butterfly flaps?



JennyTalwarts
02-06-2009, 10:52 AM
Noob having trouble with combat turns in 'Oscar' the flaps don't look right to me, does anyone have any tips on the sim of this aircraft?

idonno
02-06-2009, 01:36 PM
What is it about the flaps that doesn't look right to you?

I suspect it is the fact that they are Fowler type flaps.

See here: Flaps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flap_(aircraft))

JennyTalwarts
02-07-2009, 06:04 AM
Yeah I can see that now i've changed to the 1943 spec, i was using 1942. The pre 43 aircraft have split flaps in the sim, I though that butterfly flaps where fitted after 41.

I'm thinking that the butterfly flaps should just be single position. I'm ignoring the sim's combat/take-off/landing legends that appear when using the keys and just throwing full flaps, is this right?

Wildnoob
02-07-2009, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by JennyTalwarts:
Ndoes anyone have any tips on the sim of this aircraft?

the Ki-43 was created still with the philosophy of preference to turning-radius over speed. a obviosly thing is that the plane can make very tigth turns at lower and medium speeds, though above 500 km/h the surface controls deficient to handle higher speeds became evident. in general the structure of the airplane is very fragile, and in real life the early models had even fragile levers and other control functions inside the cockpit like Major Yohei Hinoki, IJA Ki-43 flyier and ace tell in this interview (this is the one with English subtitles) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...CO18&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-eBmnpCO18&feature=related)

the Ki-43 is slow then some early war allied planes like the P-40 E, but can turn far more tigth. you should get the enemy to slow down and and enter in a turninfigth. that's the Ki-43's strong point and you should be able to outmaneuver most allied planes. but be carefully with the prolongued turnifigths because you can be a sitting duck that way. always maintein a wingman to keep a close eye for other enemy planes. another problem is the insufficient armamnet, as the versions we have in the sim have at max 2 x type 1 12.7 heavy machine guns. though insufficent especially for targets larger then figthes, you gonna need some training, but with pratic is possible to turn the armamment a bite more acceptable despite it's clear insufficient. I recommend try training your aerial gunnery with a friendly aicraft as target in the quick missions in offline mode, as they just gonna maintein level fligth and don't make the unrealistic AI defensive maneuvers. training to stay the short time as possible behind the enemy aicraft and to try finish then quickly. because the aicraft's fragile structure it's not recommend for safety reasons make dives above 500 km/h, as the control surfaces going became very heavy as well as bring difficults to your aerial gunnery. in fact this is the best way that allied planes gonna have to avoid your attacks. so, just follow the enemy in short dives where you know you not gonna be in disadvantage because your inferior dive capability. always keep scaning the sky for enemys, use at max the team work to cover you and training to try finish the enemy quickly.

later I gonna come back to talk more, as I don't cited vertical combat and other ways and situations in combat against early war allied planes. but even because I also have some doubths about using the Ki-43 and would like hear the opinions for out great ace pilot's here if possible.

Bremspropeller
02-07-2009, 09:57 AM
preference to maneuverbility over speed

Maneuverability always increases with speed.
Maneuverability is the ability to change position in space.

What you're talking of is turning-radius. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Wildnoob
02-07-2009, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
What you're talking of is turning-radius. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

oh, sorry for the error. can't belive I was giving wrong informations for the community. hope that in the rest of my post there's not absurds like this one I've just commited http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I correct it. and thank you very much by the explanation Bremspropeller. this was a little confuse in my mind and now I understand the difference. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JennyTalwarts
02-08-2009, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by Wildnoob:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JennyTalwarts:
Ndoes anyone have any tips on the sim of this aircraft?

the Ki-43 was created still with the philosophy of preference to turning-radius over speed. a obviosly thing is that the plane can make very tigth turns at lower and medium speeds, though above 500 km/h the surface controls deficient to handle higher speeds became evident. in general the structure of the airplane is very fragile, and in real life the early models had even fragile levers and other control functions inside the cockpit like Major Yohei Hinoki, IJA Ki-43 flyier and ace tell in this interview (this is the one with English subtitles) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...CO18&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-eBmnpCO18&feature=related)

the Ki-43 is slow then some early war allied planes like the P-40 E, but can turn far more tigth. you should get the enemy to slow down and and enter in a turninfigth. that's the Ki-43's strong point and you should be able to outmaneuver most allied planes. but be carefully with the prolongued turnifigths because you can be a sitting duck that way. always maintein a wingman to keep a close eye for other enemy planes. another problem is the insufficient armamnet, as the versions we have in the sim have at max 2 x type 1 12.7 heavy machine guns. though insufficent especially for targets larger then figthes, you gonna need some training, but with pratic is possible to turn the armamment a bite more acceptable despite it's clear insufficient. I recommend try training your aerial gunnery with a friendly aicraft as target in the quick missions in offline mode, as they just gonna maintein level fligth and don't make the unrealistic AI defensive maneuvers. training to stay the short time as possible behind the enemy aicraft and to try finish then quickly. because the aicraft's fragile structure it's not recommend for safety reasons make dives above 500 km/h, as the control surfaces going became very heavy as well as bring difficults to your aerial gunnery. in fact this is the best way that allied planes gonna have to avoid your attacks. so, just follow the enemy in short dives where you know you not gonna be in disadvantage because your inferior dive capability. always keep scaning the sky for enemys, use at max the team work to cover you and training to try finish the enemy quickly.

later I gonna come back to talk more, as I don't cited vertical combat and other ways and situations in combat against early war allied planes. but even because I also have some doubths about using the Ki-43 and would like hear the opinions for out great ace pilot's here if possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the tips Wildnoob. The video was very useful too, there is very little documentation in English about Japanese wartime aircraft and the pilots that flew them.

'Oscar' has a varied reputation, the historians of combat flight give it little regard but people who flew against it say that although it was poorly armed, vulnerable to damage and relatively underpowered its phenomenal agility could make it a deadly opponent.

Bremspropeller
02-08-2009, 04:39 AM
It's okay, nobody got hurt - this time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Wildnoob
02-08-2009, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
It's okay, nobody got hurt - this time http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

thank you very much buddy!

really sorry for my error.

dirkpit7
02-08-2009, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">preference to maneuverbility over speed

Maneuverability always increases with speed.
Maneuverability is the ability to change position in space.

What you're talking of is turning-radius. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So by your definition, flying straight and level is also "maneuvering". The faster you fly, the more you "maneuver".

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Freiwillige
02-09-2009, 10:54 AM
"So by your definition, flying straight and level is also "maneuvering". The faster you fly, the more you "maneuver"."

LOL, Does not seem to make much sense when put that way does it? I beleive a more proper description would be that a "manouver" would be any movment outside of your current plane of flight as such caused by you piloting said airframe.

This from an online Encyclopedia

(A controlled change in movement or direction of a moving vehicle or vessel, as in the flight path of an aircraft.)

So no you could not fly straight and call it a "Maneuver".

Bremspropeller
02-09-2009, 11:13 AM
The faster you fly, the more you "maneuver".

Ever heard of outrunning somebody?

idonno
02-09-2009, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:

Maneuverability always increases with speed.
Maneuverability is the ability to change position in space.



The "ability" to change position in space. Many aircraft become difficult to maneuver at higher airspeeds. For example, in real life (not here in Olegland), Zeke's didn't want to roll to the right above a certain airspeed. Also, pull back on a diving 109's stick in-game and watch as the airplane considers whether or not it feels like responding. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Maneuverability does not "always increases with speed."