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View Full Version : Torpedoes that can be destroyed by gunfire.



Can_Goose
04-04-2006, 08:06 PM
Just an idea, I thought it would be a good challenge to be able to shoot at a torpedoe in the water and destroy it.I think it would add an extra strategy to the game,possibly forcing the bombers closer to the target before dropping the torp.I was on final in one game and thought I had missed the target when I got the ship destroyed notification.

darkhorizon11
04-04-2006, 09:09 PM
Not for PF maybe BoB.

Reason being it would take wayyy to much work that 1c doesn't want to put into the game to get that to happen. The game doesn't model anything under water the torp is just an invincible weapon really once it hits the water.

Really its not that big of a deal except for Pearl Harbor, most torpedos went and go down pretty deep to hit low in the hull. Maybe a lucky shot can kill one but normally ships spend more effort avoiding and dodging and shooting down the attacking aircraft them rather than blowing them out of the water.

Nimits
04-04-2006, 09:16 PM
I've never read a 100% confirmed account of a torpedo being detonated from gunfire by an aircraft. A few times the IJN thought one of its pilots destroyed or damage a torpedo by flying into it (kamikaze style), but that's it.

VW-IceFire
04-04-2006, 10:13 PM
If I understand correctly...impact with water from a bullet reduces its kinetic energy significantly...to the point where a rifle calibre bullet would not pierce human skin after even a meter or two.

So stopping a torpedo is probably even less likely...

lbhskier37
04-05-2006, 12:15 AM
isnt it bad enough that torpedoes dont work after the pilot is killed? Hmm another bomber bug, imagine that! in a game ruled by people who fly 20 spits against 20 109 K4s? Bomber bugs would never happen.

That kinda goes along with the bomber pilot dying when the gunner (that is manned by the human) is killed. Hmm to me it doesnt seem like the pilot would just stop flying out of pity when his tail gunner died.

NonWonderDog
04-05-2006, 01:09 AM
Destroying a torpedo with gunfire is probably not possible except with large explosive rounds, and then it would require a lot more luck than just shooting at the torpedo. You'd probably have to trigger the exploder of the torpedo with your shell explosion, because AP rounds won't reach it.

Ya know, "exploder" really doesn't sound like it should be a proper term. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

I450IVex
04-05-2006, 01:17 AM
i watch mythbusters too Icefirehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Maraz_5SA
04-05-2006, 03:29 AM
Torpedoes travelled at a preset depth, usually around 3m - 5m (according to the ships they were supposed to hit, the bigger the ship, the deeper they were set), I don't believe a machine-gun round can travel that long in water and still have a sufficient stopping power.

Maraz

stansdds
04-05-2006, 04:14 AM
I think three feet of water is all it takes to stop or completely fragment bullets in calibers up to 50 caliber Browning. I did not see that episode of "Myth Busters", but was told about by someone who did see it.

WWMaxGunz
04-05-2006, 06:08 AM
If it could have been done to any degree of success even 10% then there would have been
weapons just for that and video showing them. In this case lack of evidence IS evidence
of lack.

Esel1964
04-05-2006, 09:18 PM
I saw the Mythbusters episode,and the copper jacketed,high-velocity rounds(.223,.30-06,and .50 cal.) all fragmented within 1 meter at a firing angle to the water of ~25-30 deg.

The lower velocity FMJ 9mm Luger round was good down to ~2 meters at a 90 deg. angle.

The best at retaining energy and shape were the low-velocity,very-heavy,unjacketed lead projectiles of the 12 ga. slug,and an old .54 cal. blackpowder rifle firing "Minnie" ball.
They were both good down ~3 meters.

It would have to be "the magic BB" shot from a substantial cannon to take out a torpedo with a 'rifled',airborne weapon-unless the torpedo is running abnormally shallow.

DuxCorvan
04-07-2006, 07:30 AM
He he, here in Spain I also saw that Mythbusters episode. It seems like there's a common international pool of data here.

Interesting from an intercultural point of view.

zaelu
04-07-2006, 11:23 AM
This is so funny,

In real life you have problems hiting with the guns on an aircraft another aircraft flying in front of you in the same medium like you and your bullets and you want to hit a "small" torpedo running under water at minimum 1 meter almost unseen (the real thing not that big water wake that it lives behind) while diving on it... also computing the fact that what you (don't) see in the gunsight is the refraction of the torpedo and your bulets will change angle once in the water.

Beter, why not go above the running torpido with a D3A or a SBD and tell your gunner to go down on the wheel stick one hand into the water and disarm the darn thing on the spot? Piece of kake eh?

To much 007 movies man. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Esel1964
04-07-2006, 07:39 PM
DuxCorvan-It is cool that people spread around the globe,can discuss a topic,mention a simple TV show,and still have the info in common.
Regards,M8

zaelu- "Beter, why not go above the running torpido with a D3A or a SBD and tell your gunner to go down on the wheel stick one hand into the water and disarm the darn thing on the spot? Piece of kake eh?" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Funny idea,but he'd better have an arm like a gorilla to reach even the shallowest torp. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Maybe the gunners could have been equipped with a scuba mask and a noose,to jump into the torps path,lasso it,then disarm it while riding? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

*Sarcasm Alert*

strewth
04-07-2006, 08:17 PM
Originally posted by Esel1964:
I saw the Mythbusters episode,and the copper jacketed,high-velocity rounds(.223,.30-06,and .50 cal.) all fragmented within 1 meter at a firing angle to the water of ~25-30 deg.

What they didn't appear to allow for is the loss of velocity over some distance. These tests were done with the barrel very close to the water allowing for maximum velocity.

Then again, if the round was shot from a weapon on a conveyor belt going the opposite direction at the equivalent velocity - - - http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Viper2005_
04-08-2006, 01:44 PM
A couple of points spring to mind:

i) Torpedos are pretty fragile things; especially those of WWII vintage.

ii) If I wanted to stop a torpedo I'd probably either drop a bomb on it, or else shoot a naval gun at it.

Nimits
04-08-2006, 02:46 PM
If I wanted to stop a torpedo I'd probably either drop a bomb on it, or else shoot a naval gun at it.

Both navies tried that, but it was very seldom successful . . .

Let's model the synchronization on the Grumman fighters or the fuel capacity of the Val correctly before we worry about trying to blow up torpedos . . . http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ElAurens
04-08-2006, 03:36 PM
Agreed.

And as was said earlier, the torpedo should do damage even if the pilot of the launching aircraft is killed before the torpedo impacts the ship.

The current model is pure arcade.

Nimits
04-09-2006, 12:43 PM
Well considering that the AI hits with somewhere between 90% and 100% of torpedos dropped (whereas in real life, even the torpedo pilots of the IJN's First Air Fleet only had a hit rate of 70% in training, and 50%-60% against the stationary and lightly defended targets at Pearl Harbor), I think it probably evens out.

CD_Turbo
04-10-2006, 03:06 AM
I usually ditch infront of a torpedo to save the carrier in dogfight :P

WTE_Mauler
04-13-2006, 01:07 AM
ElAurens Quote "Agreed.
And as was said earlier, the torpedo should do damage even if the pilot of the launching aircraft is killed before the torpedo impacts the ship.
The current model is pure arcade."

I believe the reason behind torpedo hits not registering damage if pilot is dead is to combat the practice of rushing a carrier with multiple torpedo planes with no thought of surviving the pass. Spam killing the carrier if you like, would make it very much arcade if it were that easy. Now you may argue that the Japanese used similar tactics but lets be real here as good as it is the sim does not cover all aspects of flight and the numerous other physical and technical hardships encounted that affect the outcome of an attack. Some concessions have to be made. It was so here.

S!
Maul's

polak5
04-15-2006, 07:19 AM
Can the same be done for offline tho? ^^^^^^