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View Full Version : First 190d9 sortie on Warclouds: Results



TheBandit_76
07-31-2007, 01:33 PM
I've never flown a D9 online, and here's my first outing:

1-Very easy takeoff, almost non-existant torque or wing dip

2-Climbed up to 4k on full boost, over 100% power, no overheat

3-Goofed around at 2-3k, found dots and easily closed in on them. Never worried about being higher than my prey.

4-First P47, 2 second burst and his wing flew off.

5-Was overflown by an inverted P38 and yanked the controls gaining a rediculous snap shot and damaged him. D9 momentarily stalled but snapped right out without much loss of speed.

6-Pulled in low behind a Spit, 2-3 second burst and he completely exploded.

7-Allied AAA knocked a hole in my fuel tanks and the motor finally died.

8-Second flight, found a P51 in a climbing turn. He saw me before I could fire and took evasives. The was nothing he could do, I easily tracked him, out turned him and after a few misses I cut his wing off.

9-Scattered between these actions I took wild deflection shots, making one impossible hit on a P47 that streaked by my gunsight, as well as other high speed, seemingly impossible shots.

The conclusion:

D9 is somewhat of a klown wagon (compared to how the WF allied planes are set up), but most importantly the German 20mm are overmodeled in damage and are even more comical in their accuracy.

The P51, Spitfire, Tempest and P47 (not as bad) all have this sloppy feeling that their CoG is too far BACK. The slightest touch of the controls throws your aim off as one wing begins to dip.

My challenge to the intelligent folks that fly blue is to switch sides for awhile and see for yourself. Then take an honest appraisal. Is it your UberHuman skillzors or have the western front allied planes been given some key disadvantages for gameplay sake?

NO TRACK, make your own.

TheBandit_76
07-31-2007, 01:33 PM
I've never flown a D9 online, and here's my first outing:

1-Very easy takeoff, almost non-existant torque or wing dip

2-Climbed up to 4k on full boost, over 100% power, no overheat

3-Goofed around at 2-3k, found dots and easily closed in on them. Never worried about being higher than my prey.

4-First P47, 2 second burst and his wing flew off.

5-Was overflown by an inverted P38 and yanked the controls gaining a rediculous snap shot and damaged him. D9 momentarily stalled but snapped right out without much loss of speed.

6-Pulled in low behind a Spit, 2-3 second burst and he completely exploded.

7-Allied AAA knocked a hole in my fuel tanks and the motor finally died.

8-Second flight, found a P51 in a climbing turn. He saw me before I could fire and took evasives. The was nothing he could do, I easily tracked him, out turned him and after a few misses I cut his wing off.

9-Scattered between these actions I took wild deflection shots, making one impossible hit on a P47 that streaked by my gunsight, as well as other high speed, seemingly impossible shots.

The conclusion:

D9 is somewhat of a klown wagon (compared to how the WF allied planes are set up), but most importantly the German 20mm are overmodeled in damage and are even more comical in their accuracy.

The P51, Spitfire, Tempest and P47 (not as bad) all have this sloppy feeling that their CoG is too far BACK. The slightest touch of the controls throws your aim off as one wing begins to dip.

My challenge to the intelligent folks that fly blue is to switch sides for awhile and see for yourself. Then take an honest appraisal. Is it your UberHuman skillzors or have the western front allied planes been given some key disadvantages for gameplay sake?

NO TRACK, make your own.

MEGILE
07-31-2007, 01:43 PM
Ok duly noted. thanks!!

HuninMunin
07-31-2007, 01:46 PM
Man.
YOU are so über my friend http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif
It's time for my favorite forum picture ever:

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/crazyivan_ban.jpg

Capt.LoneRanger
07-31-2007, 01:49 PM
Nothing new in this thread from either side. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
07-31-2007, 01:55 PM
My first flight on WC in the P-47D (a few years ago) I got 4 kills in some crazy-stupid deflection shooting. That doesn't make it a klown-wagon...it makes ME an idiot-savant virtual pilot..with emphasis on the idiot part. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-31-2007, 02:18 PM
If you got no track then whats your point? Got a link to that sortie on the warclouds stat page?

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-31-2007, 02:22 PM
Care for a friendly challenge Bandit? You fly D9 and I will take the Jug. FR settings and track recorded to be posted here. Im just curious, look me up on HL if your up for it.

S!

Waldo.Pepper
07-31-2007, 02:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">look me up on HL if your up for it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and he was never heard from again. tumbleweed

HuninMunin
07-31-2007, 02:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
Care for a friendly challenge Bandit? You fly D9 and I will take the Jug. FR settings and track recorded to be posted here. Im just curious, look me up on HL if your up for it.

S! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to.
But you'd probably win anyway because I hardly get to fly once a week nowadays. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif
Put my hitrate down to ~ 10 % http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Ernst_Rohr
07-31-2007, 02:32 PM
My first sortie on spits vs 109 in a 190 was a early war channel fight in an A5.

Everyone was down on the deck doing T&B's, and I drove through the melee and took potshots at allied planes while driving in a straight line and motoring through at 500+kph in a shallow dive. Racked up several kills in that one pass, flew over the enemy island base, whacked some poor fool who had just taken off in a bomber, got potted by AAA, and flew home an landed.

Doesnt make the plane uber.

It was;
A) Luck
B) I got to fly to my planes strenths
C) I was higher and had more E when I got started.
D) Nobody was fast enough to catch me (see E state)

The flip side to that? I was flying P-51's briefly Sunday night. Got a second stage setup mapped on my X-52 to take advantage of the K-14 sight. I bagged 4 190's in short order by doing the same thing. Got high, got faster, found someone with lower E, made a pass and used that K-14 to pull some nice deflection shots that I normally only would be able to pull off once in a blue moon.

I was a dedicated blue flyer for a long time, and now fly red with a dedicated USN squadron. I haven't seen anything that is grossly out of whack in the most recent series of patches.

Since everyone whines equally, I think Oleg must have gotten it pretty close to right. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG14_Josf
07-31-2007, 02:38 PM
Track files where a person proves his claims of this or that 'uberness' is severly lacking as a backing for the claims.

Severely lacking.

No backing.

No wonder.

I'd watch the tracks. If those tracks existed.

I watch the tracks I make. I have plenty. There isn't any way the D9 can compete against a well flown P-47 where the P-47 (the new one not the old 'fighter bombers') dominates (up high).

No way.

At lower altitudes (and if the P-47 is caught lower and slower) the fight can be one of the best fights in the game if both pilots don't make mistakes.

I don't have many track files between D9 and P-47s down low.

I usually fly 109s.

Like this:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res0l0yx/Art/Nastyshot.jpg

Note: The 109 is 'overmodeled' because I say it is. The 30 mm is 'overmodeled' because I say it is. The P-47 is 'undermodeled' because I say it is. I've got track. I've got proof. You suck. No argument can possibly ever dent my belief in my facts.

If you think I am wrong, then, shoot my argument down on-line.

If you shoot me down, then, you are uber no?

The game is hard coded (each new patch).

HuninMunin
07-31-2007, 02:40 PM
That is what online dogfighting is all about to me: Find someone who is at disadvantage ( fun to listen to the " stay and fight you coward " remarks aswell http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ).

JG4_Helofly
07-31-2007, 03:07 PM
Bandit, you write as if you were a RL WWII pilot. Please proove that the D9 is über. Because at the moment it looks more like: "I say it is über so it is".
And what about your claim that the 20mm is too effectif. You seem to be the guy who want the cal.50 to kill any plane with a 0,2 sec burst, but a 20mm burst should take at least 2 sec to damage the enemy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

DKoor
07-31-2007, 03:09 PM
Here's your generic reply:



Got track?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
NO TRACK </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't think so. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

crazyivan1970
07-31-2007, 03:22 PM
Are you some kind of masochist Bandit? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TheBandit_76
07-31-2007, 04:39 PM
To the contrary!

My observations:

You got yer generic tard replies (ie: Megile, et al)

You got yer "Meet me after school and we'll just see who's bigger!" (standard Havok)

You got yer "Oh, I jumped in a Mustang and blah blah blahs....."

Finally, and the most rewarding, we have the loudest replies from those who know the truth but cannot afford to believe it.

I have simply brought you the truth my friends, how you deal with it will have to come down to individual choice.

Good luck.

MEGILE
07-31-2007, 04:50 PM
Sweet dude. good work.

JG4_Helofly
07-31-2007, 05:04 PM
Wow!!! Bandit is the messiah! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

He brought us the TRUTH about Olegs Bias.

His observation after flying one time with a blue plane is 100% correct because HE said it to us.

Bandit, I will convert myself to your religion. I am absolutely convinced now! You are the chosen one! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Capt.LoneRanger
07-31-2007, 05:19 PM
As I said before, nothing new from either side. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

Low_Flyer_MkVb
07-31-2007, 05:23 PM
This thread needs more babes.

Retrofish
07-31-2007, 05:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
This thread needs more babes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a127/retrofish/aphex_sexy.jpg

TheBandit_76
07-31-2007, 05:58 PM
You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

Brain32
07-31-2007, 06:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
My challenge to the intelligent folks that fly blue is to switch sides for awhile and see for yourself. Then take an honest appraisal. Is it your UberHuman skillzors or have the western front allied planes been given some key disadvantages for gameplay sake? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I accepted your "challenge" looong time ago, actually I can't understand how can an il2 "old timer" play one side all the time or even worse - one plane all the time.
Now as for the "challenge", good thing you menationed WarClouds as I fly there 98% of my il2 flying time. I'm currently the 6-th 190D9(1,32T/S) "pilot" on the score list so I guess I know how to fly 190D9. But how am I doing with Allied planes? Hmmmm, let's see, I do better with:
Tempest(1,84T/S) - wow that's pretty bad, I need to fly it a bit more http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
SpitfireMkIXCLP(1,6T/S) - I know what you think, but he11 even I have to admit flying a Spit is a really good fun http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
P-51D5NT(1,45T/S)
P-51D20NA(1,33T/S) - I like the K-14 gunsight
P-47D_late(1,46T/S)
And some more, but theese I fly more often than others when Red.
So of my standard Allied planes I do better than in a D9 with 5 of them, the 3 being the USAAF planes.
Can I get my Congressional Medal Of Honour now? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-31-2007, 06:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You got yer "Meet me after school and we'll just see who's bigger!" (standard Havok) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! I did not say I wanted to steal your lunch money man I just asked for a friendly challenge. You claim the bird is so uber and any fool can fly it or whatever and since your such an ace I wanted to see how I fair flying the inferior aircraft against one of Hyperlobby's finest. Whats wrong wit dat?

If you whoop me, you will have a track to prove your theory this time. If not...well. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

S!

MrMojok
07-31-2007, 06:05 PM
BanditHayateAce, you constantly claim that you never get shot down while flying inferior Red planes against these uber Blue planes.

If you are right, and all blue planes are overmodelled, then what would you expect flying a D9 with your uber-ace skills?

If anything, I am surprised, and disappointed, that you didn't score fifteen kills.

TheBandit_76
07-31-2007, 09:10 PM
You folks can wriggle and weasel all you like, but the truth has been brought forth. Deal with it how you like.

Re: Havok, I don't use/like hyperlobby, preferring ASE instead. Also, I fly about 1 evening a month, which made the D9 fiasco even more hilarious. But, if you fly as Havok on WC, I will call you out and we'll go have us a P47 BBQ in a grid of your choice.

Re: Mr MojoMegileJok, I haven't the slightest clue what you're babbling about, and I am not affiliated with HA, though I do agree with some of his less extravagant preachings.

Korolov1986
07-31-2007, 09:20 PM
I was trying to think of something intelligent to say, but it got lost.

So how about this:

Please fly blue more. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
07-31-2007, 09:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
You folks can wriggle and weasel all you like, but the truth has been brought forth. Deal with it how you like.

Re: Havok, I don't use/like hyperlobby, preferring ASE instead. Also, I fly about 1 evening a month, which made the D9 fiasco even more hilarious. But, if you fly as Havok on WC, I will call you out and we'll go have us a P47 BBQ in a grid of your choice.

Re: Mr MojoMegileJok, I haven't the slightest clue what you're babbling about, and I am not affiliated with HA, though I do agree with some of his less extravagant preachings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

VMF-214_HaVoK to be exact. But sorry I dont fly Warclouds. But you can find me in Winds of War, Spits vs 109s, Zekes vs Wildcats, or UK Ded2. Im sure we can arrange something. Just PM me here if interested.

But please do tell what name you fly under on WC because Im still waiting on that sortie stat link for that KICKASS D9 sortie you had. And I would love to check out your stats to see your uber k/d ratio.

S!

Copperhead310th
07-31-2007, 10:15 PM
*sigh*

ok look yuo guys pretty much know me around here. been here for over 5 years. yadda yadda yadda.
Durring that time i've logged more stick time in P-39's 40's 38's 47's & 51's than just about anyone around. Especilay all those months i spent laid up after knee surgery. i lost count a while back but i had over 1000 hrs in on the p-47's alone in this sim and that's through all the patchs since we got the jug.. While that means didly squat in the real world....it has a great deal of meaning here. pretty much means i'm a jug expert around here as far as the FB/PF/AEP/46 P-47 is concerned.
Now i spent juat over a year with JG27 flying for those guys in !90's & 109's. planes i absoulutly HATED before i signed on with 27 which IMO is the absolutly best LW squadron in this sim. but i hated the 190's / 109g2 & g6's. and durring that time i flew almost nothing but 190's and 109's. and i hated them becuse i've witnessed time and time again what those planes can do to you in this sim even with a mediocre pilot at the controls.
So after spending over an entire year flying for the other side, flying thier planes almost exclusivly.... i came to pretty much the same conclution as Bandit did.

FW-190D-9 = cLoWn WAGON. PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING BANDIT SAD ABOUT THIS PLANE IS IMO DEAD ON THE MONEY.
When i transitioned from flying the Jug almost exclusively to flying the Fock Wulfs....i saw a dramatic change. and even though i had not changes the way i was flying....i was getting kills. and lots of them. most fairly easy.
Where as with the Jug i really had to work for them. abd the class of pilots i was flying against hadn't change. still the same buch of guys i'd been flying with on red for years. So how do you explain it? I hadn'tt changed my flying or tactics. flew the 190 same as i did the jug. enemies were still top caliber online players flying on premuim servers.....

Explain it. i challenge any of you to explain it. sure you lw guys will find some way to hash out some rational explanation for it....but in the end it comes out like this. P-47 requires an expert pilot in this sim. D-9....any noob can manage it and be succesfull with little practice or energy exerted.

As for the Oleg being biased thing...well i know better. of course he's not biased. i would never even sugest that.
Yet.....

I ain't a gotta be a damn Gynecologist to know tuna when i smell it eaither. So somthing is damn fishy around here with the FW' d-9'S & 109G-2'S. that's all i'm saying. Bandit is pretty much on the money. Sorry boys if some of you can't pull your head out of your *** long enough to see it for what it really is. But hey... ya know..if the P-47 was the ace maker those two planes are...well hell i guess i'd want to keep em just as they damn well are too.

and screw the typos and mispelling due to poor typing. it's late i'm tired and i damn well aint fixing them. lol

MrMojok
07-31-2007, 10:47 PM
It's because you have a natural affinity for fine German engineering.

Badsight-
07-31-2007, 11:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
If you got no track then whats your point? Got a link to that sortie on the warclouds stat page? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>trolls make seperate accounts for forums for a reason . . . . .

Badsight-
07-31-2007, 11:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
Re: Mr MojoMegileJok, I haven't the slightest clue what you're babbling about, and I am not affiliated with HA, though I do agree with some of his less extravagant preachings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>au contrair , you also suck each other off verbally on comms each time you fly , being squadies an all . . . . .

MrMojok
07-31-2007, 11:15 PM
Bandit, I thought I remembered a couple of posts from earlier this spring where you posted from Billy's computer while he was logged in, thinking you were logged in as HayateAce.

If I'm wrong, I do apologize.

TheBandit_76
07-31-2007, 11:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Korolov1986:
I was trying to think of something intelligent to say, but it got lost.

So how about this:

Please fly blue more. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh aye!

I plan on doing just that. It will be interesting to see how high I can get my KD ratio. I got into a bit of trouble once, but simply jinked the stick around a little the DM took care of the rest.

Fun times!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

faustnik
07-31-2007, 11:40 PM
Copperhead and Bandit,

Korolov and I would be happy setup a 2 on 2 COOP and fly US planes agianst your uberDoras. If Doras are that easy to win with, please show us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif We can connect direct through IP. At least it will be fun, and you can back up all your talk with action.

MrMojok
08-01-2007, 12:00 AM
Actually I did not imagine it at all. Either TheBandit_76 and HayateAce are both you, or one is you and another is really another person, but you both have posted from Billy's computer.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
Stupid move.

Billy is not a character of any kind. Billy is an old friend and from time to time I have posted from his PC. Billy is a genuine, enthusiastic person. I will not post from his machine any more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's from This thread. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1211020425?r=9061062425#9061062425)

He has called both accounts "Big Brother" numerous times though, so I am inclined to believe the former.

Badsight-
08-01-2007, 12:43 AM
WRONG!
read it & weep!<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
Re: Mr MojoMegileJok, I haven't the slightest clue what you're babbling about, and I am not affiliated with HA, though I do agree with some of his less extravagant preachings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>you see! he actually isnt HayateTroll , & he actually isnt trolling UBI with a log-in different to his squad callsign

everything is above board here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Manu-6S
08-01-2007, 12:52 AM
I'm one of the few who like A9 more then Dora (really, I don't like D9 very much).

Probably it's because I fight always against spits and with them it's better to have the most firing power possible.

However Bandit, you said that allied AAA got you... were you over enemy base?

2 hits to down a P47? Luck, usually I hit him several time (with several I mean more the 10) and he's still flying...

Copperhead310th
08-01-2007, 01:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Copperhead and Bandit,

Korolov and I would be happy setup a 2 on 2 COOP and fly US planes agianst your uberDoras. If Doras are that easy to win with, please show us. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif We can connect direct through IP. At least it will be fun, and you can back up all your talk with action. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

2 0n 2. won't work. My results were not compleatly based on the Fw's uberness alone. there were some other contributing factors involved such as team tactics, with pilots i'm familier with, in a .....to be honest ...target rich enviorment. So with that in mind, i'm doubtfull a two vs two would be an aproriate senerio. we could give it a go...it's up to you guys. when ever. just let me know when & where.
but i was thinking more along the lines of a kill count contest on WC or Spits/109's or some other popular server. team with the most combimned killes @ the end of a the specified time wins. losses would not count. just kills. no K/D Ratio. just a straight forward kill count.

TheBandit_76
08-01-2007, 01:20 AM
Wasn't luck Manu, just good gunnery combined with overmodeled guns. And I didn't say two hits, I believe I said "2-second burst."

At any rate, those who are willing to have open eyes will see this, and for the rest go back to being Maddox fan-boys.

Faustnick/Havok, I have nothing to prove or disprove by going online and shooting you down (or being shot down). The original purpose here was to report what I suspected, then experienced first hand.

I have done that, stick the report in your trash/hat/purse, whatever. Whatever replies you come up with will be for yourselves, as I am outta here!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bewolf
08-01-2007, 03:01 AM
Now where is Targert when one needs him? Oh right, its reds coming up with "fishy" feelings, not blue. That's ok then.

I flew both the Mustang and the Thunderbold quite a lot. Especially the Mustang is a dream to fly in every regard. This thing holds energy bar "none", and flies smooth as hell.

I promise, had this thing cannons instead of machine guns, nobody would complain. The most frustrating factor is the lack of punch there, due to the limited damage model. But to now go and mock the 190 for that, known everywhere as a most excellent plane, is lame.

leitmotiv
08-01-2007, 03:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
My first flight on WC in the P-47D (a few years ago) I got 4 kills in some crazy-stupid deflection shooting. That doesn't make it a klown-wagon...it makes ME an idiot-savant virtual pilot..with emphasis on the idiot part. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Humility, honesty, and humor in an IL-2 forum---well blow me down, a first!

I'd call the above a concise summary of my entire virtual combat flying career.

Whirlin_merlin
08-01-2007, 03:59 AM
Sorry Bandit I don't buy it, I fly both 'sides' on different servers with different settings. Sure the D9 is good, it was good. However I've been owned in it many times. I suggest you just had a good evening, when you were in the zone.

I do believe there is a real issue about the 'versions' of planes that meet on various servers eg an early 44 P51 vs a late 44 D9. However the 'Oleg porked the Yanks' argument just doesn't agree with my experiences.

MEGILE
08-01-2007, 04:01 AM
5/5. top class thread gentlemen.

All we need now is for Hayate Ace and Billy the Kid to weigh in with their ideas.

Vipez-
08-01-2007, 04:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
I've never flown a D9 online, and here's my first outing:

1-Very easy takeoff, almost non-existant torque or wing dip

2-Climbed up to 4k on full boost, over 100% power, no overheat

3-Goofed around at 2-3k, found dots and easily closed in on them. Never worried about being higher than my prey.

4-First P47, 2 second burst and his wing flew off.

5-Was overflown by an inverted P38 and yanked the controls gaining a rediculous snap shot and damaged him. D9 momentarily stalled but snapped right out without much loss of speed.

6-Pulled in low behind a Spit, 2-3 second burst and he completely exploded.

7-Allied AAA knocked a hole in my fuel tanks and the motor finally died.

8-Second flight, found a P51 in a climbing turn. He saw me before I could fire and took evasives. The was nothing he could do, I easily tracked him, out turned him and after a few misses I cut his wing off.

9-Scattered between these actions I took wild deflection shots, making one impossible hit on a P47 that streaked by my gunsight, as well as other high speed, seemingly impossible shots.

The conclusion:

D9 is somewhat of a klown wagon (compared to how the WF allied planes are set up), but most importantly the German 20mm are overmodeled in damage and are even more comical in their accuracy.

The P51, Spitfire, Tempest and P47 (not as bad) all have this sloppy feeling that their CoG is too far BACK. The slightest touch of the controls throws your aim off as one wing begins to dip.

My challenge to the intelligent folks that fly blue is to switch sides for awhile and see for yourself. Then take an honest appraisal. Is it your UberHuman skillzors or have the western front allied planes been given some key disadvantages for gameplay sake?

NO TRACK, make your own. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What you wrote here I disagree 99%. Maybe your nasty attitude is twisting your views, unfortunalety it happens for some people (HayteAce ? :P ).. And btw 2-3 seconds of fire puts a lot of rounds (assuming you are actually hitting).

http://omglol.kerrolisaa.com/1/8259.gif

Feathered_IV
08-01-2007, 04:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheBandit_76:
but most importantly the German 20mm are overmodeled in damage and are even more comical in their accuracy.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you explain for me what you mean by comical accuracy?

Do you mean that high velocity cannons and mg's are more accurate to use? Or do you mean there is some kind of homing device in the D9 that lets it's guns lock on to a target?
It sounds as if you are suggesting the latter..

carguy_
08-01-2007, 05:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
But hey... ya know..if the P-47 was the ace maker those two planes are...well hell i guess i'd want to keep em just as they damn well are too. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here`s what you do:

host a coop with 15 P47/P38/P51 for red, 3FW190D9 for blue.

This way you resemble the historically accurate circumstances and become a P47 ace.

Von_Rat
08-01-2007, 05:06 AM
notice he wont say what his WC callsign is so we could check his uberness in a d9.

Von_Rat
08-01-2007, 05:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
*sigh*

ok look yuo guys pretty much know me around here. been here for over 5 years. yadda yadda yadda.
Durring that time i've logged more stick time in P-39's 40's 38's 47's & 51's than just about anyone around. Especilay all those months i spent laid up after knee surgery. i lost count a while back but i had over 1000 hrs in on the p-47's alone in this sim and that's through all the patchs since we got the jug.. While that means didly squat in the real world....it has a great deal of meaning here. pretty much means i'm a jug expert around here as far as the FB/PF/AEP/46 P-47 is concerned.
Now i spent juat over a year with JG27 flying for those guys in !90's & 109's. planes i absoulutly HATED before i signed on with 27 which IMO is the absolutly best LW squadron in this sim. but i hated the 190's / 109g2 & g6's. and durring that time i flew almost nothing but 190's and 109's. and i hated them becuse i've witnessed time and time again what those planes can do to you in this sim even with a mediocre pilot at the controls.
So after spending over an entire year flying for the other side, flying thier planes almost exclusivly.... i came to pretty much the same conclution as Bandit did.

FW-190D-9 = cLoWn WAGON. PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING BANDIT SAD ABOUT THIS PLANE IS IMO DEAD ON THE MONEY.
When i transitioned from flying the Jug almost exclusively to flying the Fock Wulfs....i saw a dramatic change. and even though i had not changes the way i was flying....i was getting kills. and lots of them. most fairly easy.
Where as with the Jug i really had to work for them. abd the class of pilots i was flying against hadn't change. still the same buch of guys i'd been flying with on red for years. So how do you explain it? I hadn'tt changed my flying or tactics. flew the 190 same as i did the jug. enemies were still top caliber online players flying on premuim servers.....

Explain it. i challenge any of you to explain it. sure you lw guys will find some way to hash out some rational explanation for it....but in the end it comes out like this. P-47 requires an expert pilot in this sim. D-9....any noob can manage it and be succesfull with little practice or energy exerted.

As for the Oleg being biased thing...well i know better. of course he's not biased. i would never even sugest that.
Yet.....

I ain't a gotta be a damn Gynecologist to know tuna when i smell it eaither. So somthing is damn fishy around here with the FW' d-9'S & 109G-2'S. that's all i'm saying. Bandit is pretty much on the money. Sorry boys if some of you can't pull your head out of your *** long enough to see it for what it really is. But hey... ya know..if the P-47 was the ace maker those two planes are...well hell i guess i'd want to keep em just as they damn well are too.

and screw the typos and mispelling due to poor typing. it's late i'm tired and i damn well aint fixing them. lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh come on copprhead.

if youve been flying 190s with jg27 you havent been doing it at WC. unless you used a different callsign.


im no slouch with a d9. but my stats witha p47 are quite a bit better.

and unlike you or your buddy bandit i actually have stats at WC with both planes so that anybody who interested can check my claims. http://www.war-clouds.com/modules.php?name=TARGET&theat...yerstats&pilotid=213 (http://www.war-clouds.com/modules.php?name=TARGET&theatre=WF&op=playerstats&pilotid=213)

JG4_Helofly
08-01-2007, 05:59 AM
It's always funny to see people who belive that planes they didn't like are über based on flying them online. But no numbers or charts are posted to compare with. These people think they are so good that they can juge if a plane is too good. I would realy like to know how that is possible.
What if a blue pilot do the same with red planes? He could tel us that the spit 25 is über because he shot down everything he saw and if he was in trouble he only had to pull the stick back.
I would realy like to know why we should believe what you say and not believe some whiners from the other side claiming red planes are über. Do you see the dilemma?

And if you guys are wondering why the D9 is better than the p47 I would look at the performance difference. The p47 is more a fighter-bomber then a pure fighter and it's nearly 2 tonnes havier than the D9. And then you are wondering why you can turn better in a D9 and why the manoeuvrability is superior??? You can't be serious guys.

Come up with some RL charts and numbers to discuss, but don't come with "I say it is über so it is". That is absolutely stupid.

IMO you are frustrated because your favorite planes do not fly like you expected them to fly. You wanted your winner planes to destroy with ease all crappy LW planes like you saw it in many propaganda films were germans are represented as stupid psychopatic monkeys who don't even know how to bulid a plane or get in the air with it.
Unfortunatly for you RL is somewhat different.

crazyivan1970
08-01-2007, 06:18 AM
This thread is funney... or as Billy would say: I am laugh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

csThor
08-01-2007, 06:25 AM
Apparently five years of whining, moaning and fighting in flame-wars hasn't changed much: neither attitudes nor the tactics of self-appointed "experts". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

DKoor
08-01-2007, 06:48 AM
The best part is: they never give up!

Codex1971
08-01-2007, 06:56 AM
OK OK OK OK...we blue flyers give up...it's true...the D9 is Uber and Over modelled.

We've been conspiring with Oleg for years over making subtle changes to the blue planes to make them just ever so slightly more superior than red planes. The fact is we just can't be bothered dog fighting us blue flyer. We'd rather just drink our schnapps and smoke a cigar while flying and zoom down and kill the enemy with little or no effort. But in recent days there have been some damming photo's of the D9 in action which frankly has forced us to admit the conspiracy.

Below is a photo of a D9 prototype being developed for SoW, it was taken when Oleg tweaked the Uber levels a little too much...Warning...some viewers might be shocked at this photo.

Prototype Fw-190D9 for SoW (http://www.users.on.net/%7Ecodex/Images/transformers2.jpg)

MrMojok
08-01-2007, 06:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">....I am outta here!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which personality is speaking now, Hayateace or Bandit? Or are there even more?

faustnik
08-01-2007, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:

2 0n 2. won't work. My results were not compleatly based on the Fw's uberness alone. there were some other contributing factors involved such as team tactics, with pilots i'm familier with, in a .....to be honest ...target rich enviorment. So with that in mind, i'm doubtfull a two vs two would be an aproriate senerio. we could give it a go...it's up to you guys. when ever. just let me know when & where.
but i was thinking more along the lines of a kill count contest on WC or Spits/109's or some other popular server. team with the most combimned killes @ the end of a the specified time wins. losses would not count. just kills. no K/D Ratio. just a straight forward kill count. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


It's easy to complain and say "my favorite plane isn't easy enough to get kills in." The fact is certain a/c are better suited for certain environments. Most fighting online happens at low altitude. The La7, Yak-3, Spitfire, Dora and Tempest are going to be the best fighters below 5K meters because they were strong there historically. The P-47 comes into its own above 7K meters. There are many groups using the P-47 in just that way on Warclouds now.

There are also certain pilots who always react to any encounter by turning or climbing at steep angles. In fact, I'd say that is the majority of pilots. For that type of maneuvering, the Spitfire, Tempest, La7, Yak-3 and Dora are (and were) the best.

Now, you might say, "but I got kills in the Fw190A". Well, the Fw190A has/had superior firepower. With the Mk108 outer gun conversion, the Anton have incredible firepower. With superior firepower, kills are easy to make.

So, your expectations might not be realistic, or inline with the historical strengths of your favorite a/c.

Of course, as always, it's easier to blame Oleg than to adjust your tactics and expectations.

crazyivan1970
08-01-2007, 10:15 AM
You are making too much sense Faust, it is not allowed. Consider it as a warning http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Next time i wont be as nice, be sure!

JG14_Josf
08-01-2007, 10:26 AM
More proof!

http://4jg53.org/gallery/albums/userpics/Lucky_shot.jpg

Laser guided homing cannons.
Stealth capabilities.
Macro Turn Rate (even at slow speed and without blacking out)
Micro turn radius (also no black out and at any speed)
Automatic tracking button (I got this shot while at the fridge getting a beer)
The wingmen told me about it when I got back (they turned their tracking off to let me have it – thanks guys)

Now take the P-47D (late) and fight a P-47D (Early) and see which one is better.

Ohhh wait there isn't any way to do that without becoming a school yard bully.

How about making a myth instead?

I think the term is called Pseudoscience or perhaps merely Psychobabble.

Hypothesis: What I say is absolute fact because I say it.

Test procedure: Say something.

Yup – I'm right.

joeap
08-01-2007, 11:52 AM
Yes Bandit can you make a track nextime or do you have a Problem? (http://bandit76.doyouhaveepilepsy.com/)

BBB_Hyperion
08-01-2007, 12:01 PM
You should have added "When your are not right rule number 1. applies, which says your are always right" Josf .)

Now imagine these guys work on the next sim. How would that look ? Each country gets local Version ? The only compromise in it would be that all agree that they don't use it anymore cause they feel cheated into buying such thing at all as it didn't life up 100 % to their expectations.

Chivas
08-01-2007, 12:07 PM
You think the D9 is uber try the A9 with the wing cannons...now thats uber. I don't remember ever being shot down by a red plane while flying the A9. Of course I have Alziemers...sorry can't remember how to spell it.

Daiichidoku
08-01-2007, 12:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
Yes Bandit can you make a track nextime or do you have a Problem? (http://bandit76.doyouhaveepilepsy.com/) </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

StellarRat
08-01-2007, 01:27 PM
I think Faust it right. Unfortunately, in WC and most other servers there is no incentive to fly over 7000m where the American planes are superior or at least even to the Blue planes. Every map is designed with ground attack targets that usually have tanks in them. Making it nearly impossible to win the maps with high altitude bombing. Tanks can really only be taken out with low level bombing or rockets. To add insult the map designers nearly always use the heaviest German tanks, Tigers and Panthers which can't be taken out by guns at all and require direct hits from bombs and rockets. The lack of any in cockpit heavy bombers further aggravates the situation since they are the only ones capable of carrying enough bombs to try to wipe out armor with carpet bombing in any reasonable number of sorties. The pitiful bombload of the B-25 and A-20 just can't do the job against armor.

TooCooL34
08-01-2007, 01:39 PM
Just let us know what is your callsign in WC.
Then we can reference your stat in D9 or any plane and, (if you say stat isn't everything) I will record some tracks when you're in game and watch your move when I have free time.

I think you've never met real Red aces online.
They will scare you to total despair.

I fly D9 mostly in whole planeset and I can say one thing for sure.
You can never win red aces who are proficient in Spit, P-51 and P-47 assuming both have co-E & SA.
You win them(aces, not newbies) only by proper tactic and nicely prepared surprise.

If D9's cannon is uber, then Hispano cannon is rail gun. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

HellToupee
08-02-2007, 02:17 AM
Its not IMO ub3r, but there is no equal to it in terms of all round performance, as good as the p47d up high, as good as the tempest down low, and the best there is in the middle, probly too good there :P

Only suss thing is the d944 vs d945, 44 is supposed to be a d9 with laded and 45 is supposed to be laded + mw50 injection but ingame its overall a worse performer.

Bewolf
08-02-2007, 04:38 AM
That is the thing. Unlike the allies, who concentrated on high alt, and the russians, who concentrated on low alt, the germans had to come up with something competetive both up high and down low. The D9, though not the best neither high up nor down low, was at least able to stay on nearly equal ground and even managed to be one of the best in mid heights. Which, thought about it, makes total sense. Its not the planes fault that mid hights in this game usually is as high as it gets. Or, as we are at it, that the Tempest only has a 9lbs boost instead of 11, a thing I never understood given the 11 was much more in use.

Xiolablu3
08-02-2007, 04:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:
Its not IMO ub3r, but there is no equal to it in terms of all round performance, as good as the p47d up high, as good as the tempest down low, and the best there is in the middle, probly too good there :P

Only suss thing is the d944 vs d945, 44 is supposed to be a d9 with laded and 45 is supposed to be laded + mw50 injection but ingame its overall a worse performer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The 1945 Dora wasnt made to be an actual 'improvement' over the 1944 model. It was purely to install a MW50 boost system rather than the Erhote noisteltung or whatever its called.

The MW50 was actually heavier.

I forget the reason it was used. Possibly to save fuel, possibly just a different way of getting up to speed.

I am quite sure its performance isnt supposed to be superior just because its later model.


I agree that the Dora is probably the best prop plane in the game and owing to the numbers built shouldnt be used wquite as much in online servers. It should be Spit IX/P51D/Tempest/P47 vs 190A8/FW190A9/109G10/109G14/109G6A/S for a real 1944 planest.

Or Spitfire 25lbs/P51D boosted/SPitfire XIV/Late TEmpest/P47 vs Me109K4/Dora/Me262

Putting the Dora in with common planes like the Spitfire IX and the vanilla P51D isnt really right fopr a historically balanced battle...the Dora is just too good.

Bewolf
08-02-2007, 05:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:
Its not IMO ub3r, but there is no equal to it in terms of all round performance, as good as the p47d up high, as good as the tempest down low, and the best there is in the middle, probly too good there :P

Only suss thing is the d944 vs d945, 44 is supposed to be a d9 with laded and 45 is supposed to be laded + mw50 injection but ingame its overall a worse performer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The 1945 Dora wasnt made to be an actual 'improvement' over the 1944 model. It was purely to install a MW50 boost system rather than the Erhote noisteltung or whatever its called.

The MW50 was actually heavier.

I forget the reason it was used. Possibly to save fuel, possibly just a different way of getting up to speed.

I am quite sure its performance isnt supposed to be superior just because its later model.


I agree that the Dora is probably the best prop plane in the game and owing to the numbers built shouldnt be used wquite as much in online servers. It should be Spit IX/P51D/Tempest/P47 vs 190A8/FW190A9/109G10/109G14/109G6A/S for a real 1944 planest.

Or Spitfire 25lbs/P51D boosted/SPitfire XIV/Late TEmpest/P47 vs Me109K4/Dora/Me262

Putting the Dora in with common planes like the Spitfire IX and the vanilla P51D isnt really right fopr a historically balanced battle...the Dora is just too good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Dora, though built in comparable low absolute numbers, was pretty high on relative numbers in the LW during that time. What are you going to do? Put up a 10:1 numerical superiourity to the allies as it was in real life back then? Restrict the Dora as it was "too good" like the 262?

Which is the same reason most servers still use the derated eastern front A4 for most 42 channel maps, even though the A5 would be much more realistic, as even Oleg himself stated.

What does this tell us?

Maybe, just maybe, there was a reason why the 190 line of fighters got so much praise from "all" sides, including american, russian and british pilots and allied material was not in every regard totally superiour and the germans just produced overhyped ****, as so many here state or imply again, and again, and again, and again.

stalkervision
08-02-2007, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">agree that the Dora is probably the best prop plane in the game and owing to the numbers built shouldnt be used wquite as much in online servers. It should be Spit IX/P51D/Tempest/P47 vs 190A8/FW190A9/109G10/109G14/109G6A/S for a real 1944 planest.

Or Spitfire 25lbs/P51D boosted/SPitfire XIV/Late TEmpest/P47 vs Me109K4/Dora/Me262

Putting the Dora in with common planes like the Spitfire IX and the vanilla P51D isnt really right fopr a historically balanced battle...the Dora is just too good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yup, I agree. The numbers built weren't that high and that should be reflected in on-line play.

Kurfurst__
08-02-2007, 05:25 AM
Numbers built was never a criteria for limiting the planeset.

Otherwise, you should see very few Mk IXs on 1943 servers and very few Tempests on 1944/45 servers.

Most would/should fly Mk Vs and Typhoons, Mossie Sixs, 'razorback' P-47s (if we'd have one) on `43 servers vs. G-2s/G-6s/A-5s and IX/+18s, P-51D/71"s, P-47s, P-38s instead vs G-14/G6AS/G10/K4/A-8/A-9/D-9s on '44 servers, add IX/+25, Tempests, XIVs (if we'd have one), D9/45, K4/C3 and 262s for '45.

Xiolablu3
08-02-2007, 06:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:
Its not IMO ub3r, but there is no equal to it in terms of all round performance, as good as the p47d up high, as good as the tempest down low, and the best there is in the middle, probly too good there :P

Only suss thing is the d944 vs d945, 44 is supposed to be a d9 with laded and 45 is supposed to be laded + mw50 injection but ingame its overall a worse performer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The 1945 Dora wasnt made to be an actual 'improvement' over the 1944 model. It was purely to install a MW50 boost system rather than the Erhote noisteltung or whatever its called.

The MW50 was actually heavier.

I forget the reason it was used. Possibly to save fuel, possibly just a different way of getting up to speed.

I am quite sure its performance isnt supposed to be superior just because its later model.


I agree that the Dora is probably the best prop plane in the game and owing to the numbers built shouldnt be used wquite as much in online servers. It should be Spit IX/P51D/Tempest/P47 vs 190A8/FW190A9/109G10/109G14/109G6A/S for a real 1944 planest.

Or Spitfire 25lbs/P51D boosted/SPitfire XIV/Late TEmpest/P47 vs Me109K4/Dora/Me262

Putting the Dora in with common planes like the Spitfire IX and the vanilla P51D isnt really right fopr a historically balanced battle...the Dora is just too good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Dora, though built in comparable low absolute numbers, was pretty high on relative numbers in the LW during that time. What are you going to do? Put up a 10:1 numerical superiourity to the allies as it was in real life back then? Restrict the Dora as it was "too good" like the 262?

Which is the same reason most servers still use the derated eastern front A4 for most 42 channel maps, even though the A5 would be much more realistic, as even Oleg himself stated.

What does this tell us?

Maybe, just maybe, there was a reason why the 190 line of fighters got so much praise from "all" sides, including american, russian and british pilots and allied material was not in every regard totally superiour and the germans just produced overhyped ****, as so many here state or imply again, and again, and again, and again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I never said restrict the Dora OR the ME262 if you read my whole post.

Im all for putting hte Me262 onto servers versus the very late Allied planes.

I was just saying that I think the Dora fits in better witht he 'late war ubers' like the La7,Me262,Yak3 and SPitfire 25lbs than the 1944 planes like the vanilla SPitfire IX/P51D/P47.

The 190A fits much better in 1944 planesets.

I said nothing about the numbers.

It seems like you didnt read my whole post, just a few sentences? I am all for creating the best possible online battles with no clear advantage to either side, if its possible.

Whirlin_merlin
08-02-2007, 06:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Numbers built was never a criteria for limiting the planeset.

Otherwise, you should see very few Mk IXs on 1943 servers and very few Tempests on 1944/45 servers.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why Server Commander software is used on UKdedicated2, it alows map builders to still use 'less common' planes but limit their numbers. Also has the benifit of locking loadouts so things like MK108s and SC2000s arn't there to early.

Brain32
08-02-2007, 06:09 AM
LOL this is funny like he11, Dora is "too good" only if one hoplessly sucks at flying Red planes, SpitIX,P51D,P47D_late not to even mention the Mustang3 are very tough opposition for the 190D9. However you can't just toy with it like you can with the FW190A series, you actually do need some thinking before you engage, I guess that is waaaay out of order http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Xiolablu3
08-02-2007, 06:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Numbers built was never a criteria for limiting the planeset.

Otherwise, you should see very few Mk IXs on 1943 servers and very few Tempests on 1944/45 servers.

Most would/should fly Mk Vs and Typhoons, Mossie Sixs, 'razorback' P-47s (if we'd have one) on `43 servers vs. G-2s/G-6s/A-5s and IX/+18s, P-51D/71"s, P-47s, P-38s instead vs G-14/G6AS/G10/K4/A-8/A-9/D-9s on '44 servers, add IX/+25, Tempests, XIVs (if we'd have one), D9/45, K4/C3 and 262s for '45. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with your points, but not about the Spitfire IX. In mid 1943 almost all frontline Squadrons were equipped with MkIX SPitfires. Its mostly the reserve squadrons which had the MkV's.

Before we get into arguments, the only pooint I am trying to make here is that the Dora fits much better into fights including the Me262/Me109K4/Spitfire 25lb/La7/Yak3/Spitfire XIV

IMO its to good for the Spitfire IX/P51D/P47/FW190A6/A8/A9/109G6A/S/109G10 battles.

Xiolablu3
08-02-2007, 06:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Whirlin_merlin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Numbers built was never a criteria for limiting the planeset.

Otherwise, you should see very few Mk IXs on 1943 servers and very few Tempests on 1944/45 servers.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why Server Commander software is used on UKdedicated2, it alows map builders to still use 'less common' planes but limit their numbers. Also has the benifit of locking loadouts so things like MK108s and SC2000s arn't there to early. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, SPitfire IX in 1943 are almost always limited in numbers, once they run out you are back to MkV's.

Xiolablu3
08-02-2007, 06:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
LOL this is funny like he11, Dora is "too good" only if one hoplessly sucks at flying Red planes, SpitIX,P51D,P47D_late not to even mention the Mustang3 are very tough opposition for the 190D9. However you can't just toy with it like you can with the FW190A series, you actually do need some thinking before you engage, I guess that is waaaay out of order http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


ANother brainLESS comment from BrainLESS himself.



Thank god you fdont make planesets for servers.

Brain32
08-02-2007, 06:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
LOL this is funny like he11, Dora is "too good" only if one hoplessly sucks at flying Red planes, SpitIX,P51D,P47D_late not to even mention the Mustang3 are very tough opposition for the 190D9. However you can't just toy with it like you can with the FW190A series, you actually do need some thinking before you engage, I guess that is waaaay out of order http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


ANother brainLESS comment from BrainLESS himself.



Thank god you fdont make planesets for servers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
LOL got upset again? Seriously though learn to fly Red planes as judging by your comments you hoplessly suck with them then come back(in a year or five) and give another comment http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

And as for the planesets many servers have planesets I enjoy quite a lot, including one of "yours" the UKD3. Was there yesterday too and enjoyed it quite a lot http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bewolf
08-02-2007, 07:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

I never said restrict the Dora OR the ME262 if you read my whole post.

Im all for putting hte Me262 onto servers versus the very late Allied planes.

I was just saying that I think the Dora fits in better witht he 'late war ubers' like the La7,Me262,Yak3 and SPitfire 25lbs than the 1944 planes like the vanilla SPitfire IX/P51D/P47.

The 190A fits much better in 1944 planesets.

I said nothing about the numbers.

It seems like you didnt read my whole post, just a few sentences? I am all for creating the best possible online battles with no clear advantage to either side, if its possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, you did not say it, but you implied it. And by now I am too pissed of by the constant bickering and attempts to downgrade german equipment either by saying the historical versions were **** or the in sim versions are too good to give ppl much benefit of the doubt.

carguy_
08-02-2007, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Putting the Dora in with common planes like the Spitfire IX and the vanilla P51D isnt really right fopr a historically balanced battle...the Dora is just too good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry,this is far from the truth.The Dora is a bit faster than those planes and still highly outclassed in climb and horizontal abilities.Those advantages will result in denying the Dora by any good pilot.Maybe you are getting very good results when flying the Dora, maybe you get cloberred repeatedly by the Dora. The opponents you get are either very good or very bad.

HellToupee
08-02-2007, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

The 1945 Dora wasnt made to be an actual 'improvement' over the 1944 model. It was purely to install a MW50 boost system rather than the Erhote noisteltung or whatever its
called.

The MW50 was actually heavier.

I forget the reason it was used. Possibly to save fuel, possibly just a different way of getting up to speed.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

o it was meant to be an improvement, erhote nois... was called laderdrukerhonhung on the D9, i think there was 2 mw50 systems, straight mw50 and simpler mw50 + laded with about the same result.

It was heavier as u needed more equipment + tankage, reason it was used as it gave it heaps more power for 100kgs more weight.

stathem
08-02-2007, 07:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

I never said restrict the Dora OR the ME262 if you read my whole post.

Im all for putting hte Me262 onto servers versus the very late Allied planes.

I was just saying that I think the Dora fits in better witht he 'late war ubers' like the La7,Me262,Yak3 and SPitfire 25lbs than the 1944 planes like the vanilla SPitfire IX/P51D/P47.

The 190A fits much better in 1944 planesets.

I said nothing about the numbers.

It seems like you didnt read my whole post, just a few sentences? I am all for creating the best possible online battles with no clear advantage to either side, if its possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, you did not say it, but you implied it. And by now I am too pissed of by the constant bickering and attempts to downgrade german equipment either by saying the historical versions were **** or the in sim versions are too good to give ppl much benefit of the doubt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks your stars then Beowulf, that you are not predisposed to liking the Spitfire, since you would then be constantly pissed off by the almost daily denigrations of that plane and implications that it is too good in the sim.

Bewolf
08-02-2007, 07:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

I never said restrict the Dora OR the ME262 if you read my whole post.

Im all for putting hte Me262 onto servers versus the very late Allied planes.

I was just saying that I think the Dora fits in better witht he 'late war ubers' like the La7,Me262,Yak3 and SPitfire 25lbs than the 1944 planes like the vanilla SPitfire IX/P51D/P47.

The 190A fits much better in 1944 planesets.

I said nothing about the numbers.

It seems like you didnt read my whole post, just a few sentences? I am all for creating the best possible online battles with no clear advantage to either side, if its possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, you did not say it, but you implied it. And by now I am too pissed of by the constant bickering and attempts to downgrade german equipment either by saying the historical versions were **** or the in sim versions are too good to give ppl much benefit of the doubt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks your stars then Beowulf, that you are not predisposed to liking the Spitfire, since you would then be constantly pissed off by the almost daily denigrations of that plane and implications that it is too good in the sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may have noticed, stathem, that I "never" went against other nations aircraft. That I in fact stated several times that I consider the Spitfire and the 109 as the wars most classic and greatest aircraft. Which by now, though, got seriously hampered by the attempt of several people to make the Spit the wonderweapon of the war and the 109 a steadily declining **** aircraft.
Lets not start about "your" stars.

stathem
08-02-2007, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stathem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

I never said restrict the Dora OR the ME262 if you read my whole post.

Im all for putting hte Me262 onto servers versus the very late Allied planes.

I was just saying that I think the Dora fits in better witht he 'late war ubers' like the La7,Me262,Yak3 and SPitfire 25lbs than the 1944 planes like the vanilla SPitfire IX/P51D/P47.

The 190A fits much better in 1944 planesets.

I said nothing about the numbers.

It seems like you didnt read my whole post, just a few sentences? I am all for creating the best possible online battles with no clear advantage to either side, if its possible. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, you did not say it, but you implied it. And by now I am too pissed of by the constant bickering and attempts to downgrade german equipment either by saying the historical versions were **** or the in sim versions are too good to give ppl much benefit of the doubt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks your stars then Beowulf, that you are not predisposed to liking the Spitfire, since you would then be constantly pissed off by the almost daily denigrations of that plane and implications that it is too good in the sim. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may have noticed, stathem, that I "never" went against other nations aircraft. That I in fact stated several times that I consider the Spitfire and the 109 as the wars most classic and greatest aircraft. Which by now, though, got seriously hampered by the attempt of several people to make the Spit the wonderweapon of the war and the 109 a steadily declining **** aircraft.
Lets not start about "your" stars. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know Beowulf. But the whole implication of this thread - someone flew a Dora and declared it to be a clown wagon; and the rigorous defence thereof...

is just the shoe being on the other foot. Since 2.04 in these forums and across many others we read almost daily "I got in a Spitfire blah blah blah and shot down etc etc";


Be good to see some of the characters who have jumped on Bandit also jump on the next charcter who comes out with that. Some of the ones flaming Bandit have been some of the worst transgressors.

Thats all. Not impying that you have anything against it, I remember well your comment viz the 109 vs Spit match up and fully agree.

Bewolf
08-02-2007, 08:04 AM
Ok stathem. You finally managed to get my sense of reason out again. I wholeheartly agree. In fact, not so a long time ago I would have argued as you have, with both sides having their infamous ******s. But, and that is the sad part, reason on these boards wont get you far. I dare to say, ppl consider it a weakness. The only way to get any attention here is to join the firestartes club, which sadly enough is supported by the mods.

Worf101
08-02-2007, 10:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
My first flight on WC in the P-47D (a few years ago) I got 4 kills in some crazy-stupid deflection shooting. That doesn't make it a klown-wagon...it makes ME an idiot-savant virtual pilot..with emphasis on the idiot part. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Humility, honesty, and humor in an IL-2 forum---well blow me down, a first!

I'd call the above a concise summary of my entire virtual combat flying career. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

+1 there my brother...

Da Worfster

Kurfurst__
08-02-2007, 11:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

The 1945 Dora wasnt made to be an actual 'improvement' over the 1944 model. It was purely to install a MW50 boost system rather than the Erhote noisteltung or whatever its
called.

The MW50 was actually heavier.

I forget the reason it was used. Possibly to save fuel, possibly just a different way of getting up to speed.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

o it was meant to be an improvement, erhote nois... was called laderdrukerhonhung on the D9, i think there was 2 mw50 systems, straight mw50 and simpler mw50 + laded with about the same result.

It was heavier as u needed more equipment + tankage, reason it was used as it gave it heaps more power for 100kgs more weight. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Indeed. MW-50 was fitted to D-9s already in the automn of 1944 - it isn't something only being present from 1945 onwards! It was only different in being a simplified system; simplified in the manner it was just an MW-50 tank which could be injected into the engine.

The '1945' system only differed in that the MW-50 tank was now dual purpose, with a selective valve, that enabled it to be either used as an extra/auxilarry rear fuel tank of 115 liter capacity OR as an MW-50 boosting tank. As on the 109K-4, which's rear tank was also dual purpose, containing either fuel or MW-50, as opposed to earlier 'methanol boosted' 109Gs.

Kurfurst__
08-02-2007, 11:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Numbers built was never a criteria for limiting the planeset.

Otherwise, you should see very few Mk IXs on 1943 servers and very few Tempests on 1944/45 servers.

Most would/should fly Mk Vs and Typhoons, Mossie Sixs, 'razorback' P-47s (if we'd have one) on `43 servers vs. G-2s/G-6s/A-5s and IX/+18s, P-51D/71"s, P-47s, P-38s instead vs G-14/G6AS/G10/K4/A-8/A-9/D-9s on '44 servers, add IX/+25, Tempests, XIVs (if we'd have one), D9/45, K4/C3 and 262s for '45. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with your points, but not about the Spitfire IX. In mid 1943 almost all frontline Squadrons were equipped with MkIX SPitfires. Its mostly the reserve squadrons which had the MkV's.

Before we get into arguments, the only pooint I am trying to make here is that the Dora fits much better into fights including the Me262/Me109K4/Spitfire 25lb/La7/Yak3/Spitfire XIV

IMO its to good for the Spitfire IX/P51D/P47/FW190A6/A8/A9/109G6A/S/109G10 battles. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the actual production figures and RAF orders of battles show something entirely different for the Mk IXs availability in 1943 (ie. the IXLF's quantity production did not start until August/September '43), in mid-43 the IX actually equipped about ten Squadrons, while some 37 were equipped with the Mk V, at least as far as Fighter Command in the British isles went, with the Med Sqns were generally somewhat more backwards with regards of receipts of the newest stuff, which translates more MkVs there and even older stuff; but as you noted, it's a moot point regarding the main course of the discussion, just noting it for the record. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BillyTheKid_22
08-02-2007, 05:09 PM
I know !! No plm !!I am laugh!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif Brother http://media.ubi.com/us/forum_images/gf-glomp.gif



http://www.schildersmilies.de/noschild/coffee-n-pc.gif

f.ip2
08-02-2007, 08:51 PM
No matter what plane I take blue or red I get knocked down - well I am new to here.

There is a saying in 3D animation:
It is the artist who makes the game.

I assume the same fits to here:
It is the pilot who makes the kill.

How much fear did the US pilots have for the Japanse Zero while the Zero was not that great of a plane in terms of guns and protection.

But the early Japanse pilots were quite good in flying.



@Joeap

you made me burst out laughing.

that epilepsy website was dupe.

Xiolablu3
08-02-2007, 11:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Numbers built was never a criteria for limiting the planeset.

Otherwise, you should see very few Mk IXs on 1943 servers and very few Tempests on 1944/45 servers.

Most would/should fly Mk Vs and Typhoons, Mossie Sixs, 'razorback' P-47s (if we'd have one) on `43 servers vs. G-2s/G-6s/A-5s and IX/+18s, P-51D/71"s, P-47s, P-38s instead vs G-14/G6AS/G10/K4/A-8/A-9/D-9s on '44 servers, add IX/+25, Tempests, XIVs (if we'd have one), D9/45, K4/C3 and 262s for '45. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with your points, but not about the Spitfire IX. In mid 1943 almost all frontline Squadrons were equipped with MkIX SPitfires. Its mostly the reserve squadrons which had the MkV's.

Before we get into arguments, the only pooint I am trying to make here is that the Dora fits much better into fights including the Me262/Me109K4/Spitfire 25lb/La7/Yak3/Spitfire XIV

IMO its to good for the Spitfire IX/P51D/P47/FW190A6/A8/A9/109G6A/S/109G10 battles. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the actual production figures and RAF orders of battles show something entirely different for the Mk IXs availability in 1943 (ie. the IXLF's quantity production did not start until August/September '43), in mid-43 the IX actually equipped about ten Squadrons, while some 37 were equipped with the Mk V, at least as far as Fighter Command in the British isles went, with the Med Sqns were generally somewhat more backwards with regards of receipts of the newest stuff, which translates more MkVs there and even older stuff; but as you noted, it's a moot point regarding the main course of the discussion, just noting it for the record. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

By the Fall of 1943, I just read that every frontline RAF squadron was equipped with the MkIX Spitfire.

Even POlish Squadrons were flying the Spitfire IX in early 1943. A polish Squadron shot down a record number of German planes (for any polish squadron) in the first two months of 1943.

I dont know how many squadrons that is, exactly, but it shows that if the Germans met a SPitfire in mid-late 1943 that it was most likely a MkIX.

csThor
08-03-2007, 12:22 AM
OT:

Isn't such a topic (actual aivalability of aircraft types per year/area) not better suited to a different thread, maybe even a sticky? With the possibility of posting sources it could help server hosts to determine historical planesets. My 0,02 € ...

Viper2005_
08-03-2007, 03:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
By the Fall of 1943, I just read that every frontline RAF squadron was equipped with the MkIX Spitfire.

Even POlish Squadrons were flying the Spitfire IX in early 1943. A polish Squadron shot down a record number of German planes (for any polish squadron) in the first two months of 1943.

I dont know how many squadrons that is, exactly, but it shows that if the Germans met a SPitfire in mid-late 1943 that it was most likely a MkIX. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tangential to the above, this may be of interest:

Here is a snapshot of the RAF on D-Day:
http://www.raf.mod.uk/dday/rafu.html

Here is a (slightly less detailed) snapshot of the USAAF:
http://www.raf.mod.uk/dday/usafu.html

Here is a snapshot of Luftflotte III:
http://www.raf.mod.uk/dday/luftu.html

MEGILE
08-03-2007, 06:50 AM
LOL.. the 1943 Spitfire IX dicussion for the 10th time this year?
Kurfursts conclusion is the same everytime, and shown to be incorrect.

Scen
08-03-2007, 10:38 AM
Back OT.

This is a funny thread. I can do the same thing in the Tempest against D9s so what's the point of 5 pages?

VMF-214_HaVoK
08-03-2007, 11:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I assume the same fits to here:
It is the pilot who makes the kill. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very impressive statement for a newbie and shows that you will do just fine in due time. The same holds true in real life. Too many people with some type of ego problem always puts the blame on anything but their own flying skills, usually its the plane. Then of course they have to go into how biased Oleg is. Whats funny is that you can visit any forum from other nations and see people who think Oleg is biased...so what does that tell ya.

It refreshing to see a new pilot who understands and sees the big picture.

S!

jermin122
08-03-2007, 11:38 AM
190 is very powerful when fighting together

Fenice_1965
08-03-2007, 12:43 PM
Strange but i never considered the dora an uber plane I thought it was down modelled in the sim. I often fight with la 7, being out turned and out climbed. I have superior roll rate, anyway it's nearly impossible to evade a la7 without being at very very high altitude and nearly ompossible to beat it without altitude or speed advantage.

VMF-214_HaVoK
08-03-2007, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fenice_1965:
Strange but i never considered the dora an uber plane I thought it was down modelled in the sim. I often fight with la 7, being out turned and out climbed. I have superior roll rate, anyway it's nearly impossible to evade a la7 without being at very very high altitude and nearly ompossible to beat it without altitude or speed advantage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its actually modeled very accurately as is the LA-7. The LA-7 simply outclasses it most ways. As when fighting all russian aircraft the high speed high energy fight is where you want to be.

S!

JG4_Helofly
08-03-2007, 05:08 PM
Don't forget the altitude at which you are flying. Above 2500m the d9 take advantage in speed and climb over the la7. Also the p47 is better than the dora at alt above 7000m.
So don't fight in a p47 like you would fight in a d9. Otherwise you could come to the conclusion that the d9 is über because most fights happen below 7000m on df server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Xiolablu3
08-04-2007, 10:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fenice_1965:
Strange but i never considered the dora an uber plane I thought it was down modelled in the sim. I often fight with la 7, being out turned and out climbed. I have superior roll rate, anyway it's nearly impossible to evade a la7 without being at very very high altitude and nearly ompossible to beat it without altitude or speed advantage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I actually disagree with Havok here (a rare thing).

I would rather be in the Dora here. As long as I stay at high speeds, I seem to be able to outzoom, and out roll the La7, and stay with it in a turn at high speeds too.

Obviously the La7 is far far better at lower speeds, but I am rarely there any more unless forced to be.

I agree its close, I am not saying that the Dora is 'better' per se, just that I prefer it to the La7.

But I also think its a very even battle with benefits for each sied. The La7 is certainly better for the newer pilot. The Dora for the Veteran IMO.

Advatages for the Dora

1: DIve speed - You can put your nose down and escape an La7 providing you manage to get up to 700-800kph in the dive.

2: He cannot go over 800kph or he will break up.

3. Dora has better control sat those high speeds.

4. The higher you go, the more advantage the Dora has. Over 3000m the La7's ability falls off rapidly.

JUst as a La7 pilot would try to keep the fight below 3000, in a DOra try and take the fight as high as possible.