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View Full Version : Last patch 2.11.0 : RIP SHINOBI



Siegfried-Z
07-25-2019, 07:36 PM
https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-353493-16/patch-notes-2110

Ok there is a lot of stuff right here.

First pretty cool things :
-MM improvments (at the end)
-Strong nerf to Roll, back dodge etc (plus improvments on feint into GB to help this nerf).

Some heroes got a recovery buff, for some of them a single moove like LB but Warden and Tiandi got recovery changes on a lot of mooves.

Nobushi got a lot of changes which makes her a much more fast heroe, have a better use of her Kick and her bleeds now stack but at the cost of DMG and a HS nerf.

Kensei also got the same thing but simplier. He got way faster at the cost of some dmg. But thats pretty nice for him tbh i am happy about that unexpected change.

Musha got an indirect nice buff because of the back dodge/roll nerf plus a step foward he does now on his heavy finisher allowing him to catch people with feint into GB !! :)

BP got buff on his zone, he has now almost no GB vulnerability.

PK got a very small buff again. +1 dmg on light opener plus less stam on zone. Slighly less recovery on her bleed feint too and she got an attack becoming undodgeable but i don't know which one it is because of the english name, i gess her dodge attack ?? If someone can check this.

Orochi : this is far from beiing a 2nd rework. He can now chain on a whiff riptide and is now faster by 50ms on many mooves (let you read the link if you are interested). But overall they just makes him a bit more spammy..... well done Ubi.

Valk buff ! : yes my Valk mains friends ! A small one but nice ! 4 more dmg on heavy opener and 2 more on 2nd heavy. Faster Shield tackle, tigher window for the opponent to dodge shield crush and recovery almost reduced by 50% on her sweep !

Slight nerf to Zerk and SHugo. Minus 2 dmg on zerk feint light and minus 5hp back on DE for Shugo.

JJ Sifu's poise range decreased (nerf) by 45%.

SHINOBI : RIP = a longer guard duration but outside of that a BUNCH of nerf that you can find in the link. This is disgusting.

I am overall happy they did so many changes !

Just too bad Cent and Glad are the only heroes 100% ignored.

Overall, the way the nerf escaping in the game gonna be a buff for many heroes but the most ovbious one are HL/Shugo/Musha.

allenhollow
07-25-2019, 08:15 PM
man i was waiting for a compensation to shinobi's nerf not even a buff for his health rip one of my mains

allenhollow
07-25-2019, 08:17 PM
still very frustrated for ignoring directly aramusha now he is even worst than before with cent

Girl2Good
07-25-2019, 08:22 PM
still very frustrated for ignoring directly aramusha now he is even worst than before with cent

Aramusha got an indirect buff here. From what I'm getting, they sped up the gb attempt and increased his range so if they make an incorrect read and try to back dodge his soft feint, Ara can then feint and get the gb. They will have to deal with his mix up now. Thank God.

Siegfried-Z
07-25-2019, 08:23 PM
man i was waiting for a compensation to shinobi's nerf not even a buff for his health rip one of my mains

They did Nothing but **** with Shinobi. They totally ignore his lack of offense but and in another hand they didnt even nerf his safety really, they only nerf his punish/bait ability. Now a Shinobi can still keep the distance and refuse to fight but the only difference is he cannot anymore properlly punish people.

So if we summarize, Shinobi cannot attack and cannot defend. He can only stay away from his oppoenent and try a little light or zone time to time. Well it is just pointless to play him now. Too bad i've spent 12 reps on him.


still very frustrated for ignoring directly aramusha now he is even worst than before with cent

About Musha i disagree. Why do you say that ? The recent changes means Musha now gonna have some way to catch people trying to avoid his Deadly feints. This is not Nothing considering Musha has very high dmg, if his mix up is now more effective its mean he's gonna more viable for sure.

The real forgotten here are Cent and Glad and only them.

TheUberDome
07-25-2019, 08:26 PM
I feel like shinobi was a last minute change, I don't know why they decided to remove the hyperarmour on his kick. The move is so slow and reactable that you rely on hyperarmour to land the kick. Even just speeding up the speed of the kick would've been enough to compensate the hero, but a measly guard switch improvement isn't enough. Don't get me wrong though. The slide tackle and range GB changes were good, as we're the roll and walk speed changes. I just feel as it stands right now, shinobi has a hard time in 1s, and these changes only damage the hero further, and force the shinobi to play defensively.

Vendelkin
07-25-2019, 08:40 PM
HOLY CRAP STUFF!!!

So I haven't been on the forums or in game much for the last little while, been busy with a bunch of big life decisions but I will be returning more after Jormungundr dropped. TBH I also just needed a break.

Adding in my two cents on how each hero changed as well cause it'll be interesting to gather thoughts.

Peacekeeper: still has some problems, but honestly I think more stam management will do her a lot better. People want to see some real changes, but her feint game is already on point to some degree, and with changes to escapes I can see her performing better. Im not saying she gonna be a great character suddenly, or that she doesn't still need an actual set of mechanic changes, but this is an improvement. I mean be happy she got touched at all cause I didn't expect that.

Orochi: Mostly got recovery reductions. This is nice cause it allows players to have a choice other than finishing with a dodge. All these recovery fixes will improve both his offense and defense. The move of some attacks to 466ms is a long desired increment change and I'm glad he didn't change to severely.

Nobushi: Although I like a lot of the nerfs I don't feel like the damage nerfs on bleed or specific light attacks (at certain points) was really deserving of a nerf. ESPECIALLY when metrically compared to raider right now.

Valkyrie: No strong thoughts here for me. Other than I don't like that the dodge window for shield crush is reduced, but thats only cause I know I suck at reacting to bashes far too often.

Shinobi: RIP.... I mean really. He had some exploitable defensive mechs before sure but to literally remove that much uninterruptible stance from him with no compensation at all??? I mean despite his exploits he still wasn't considered top tier. This is a massive disappointment to me. This wasn't even a pass, it was a nerf hammer. Won't have hit his damage hard but playing him in 4v4 is now gonna be trash by my guess.

Warden: Recovery buffs are nice. I've always felt BP's recoveries were unfair compared to much of the cast (even with his shield) its nice to see people brought more into line.

Kensei: YESSSSSSSSS. Why didn't they tease this instead of the 3 they teased? Better dmg, Better speed, More in line attacks, ledge allowed light finishers. A very simple set of changes but much desired. Kensei may be my (fake)main for a time after this. (Aramusha will always be my main)

Tiandi: Better recoveries again! This is a good thing!

Lawbringer: I mean okay. Side finishers are a bit faster cool.

Shugoki: wont change much. I'll miss my 5 hp but the indirect buff via the reduction of back stepping and escapes will be wonderful. Still you can't think of those fixes being buffs for classes with flaws, because they were things that should have been standardized or present regardless, so although such things will positively effect slower heroes more I don't think its fair to call them buffs to those heroes.

JJ: Less safe, especially in team fights. I'm happy about this although minor.

Aramusha: They said above and I quote "Backward Combat Strafe for all heroes have been capped at 5 units maximum. (If they were slower before, they haven’t changed.)
Forward Combat Strafe for all heroes have been capped at 6 units minimum. (If they were faster before, they haven’t changed.)"
First off this suggests since aramusha's speed was still the lowest that he will still be the slowest. T_T. AND that second statement literally makes no sense. Let me quote it again.
"Forward Combat Strafe for all heroes have been capped at 6 units minimum. (If they were faster before, they haven’t changed.)" Sooooooo can't move as fast forward buuuuuuuttt.... if you were faster than the new limit you are still faster??? what? this statement literally contradicts itself.
ANYWAYS Better movement forward with heavy feints is gonna be WONDERFUL, but is still a minor fix. It will improve him, but the underlying issues of having half your kit useless will still exist. Im excited tho to see how much changes. Can we catch easier now with heavy feint into heavy? Will GB from heavy feint actually reliably connect now? If so then I am very excited. I still want him to be larger reworked like I've posted many times tho. Reduce his damage and make him more technical and make his full kit viable with the changes I or others have presented please.

BP: reduced GB vulnerability. GB is one of his weaknesses, but I dont mind this exceptionally mild buff.

Hitokiri. Same as BP, except in this case I think it's really needed because Hito is REALLY GB vulnerable as it is.

Cent/Glad: I still feel bad for you guys. Someday soon you will get your heyday. Gotta say tho I still have some PTSD from cent release day so although my logical heart wants you both to be buffed, my core has been enjoying spending less time in cutscenes for the last forever haha.

Other thoughts:
Second wind nerf kinda made me "huh" but upon considering I do think it was warranted. Second wind also was a overly reliable way to get revenge.
Body Count nerf Saddens me.
Inspire. raising the cooldown 30 Seconds wont honestly change all that much but okay.
"[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Lawbringer Halberd to fly out of the his hands when changing Stance while preforming the "You're welcome" emote" Honestly fixes like this make me sad cause I enjoy all the videos of weapons magically floating or flying through the air. haha

The_B0G_
07-25-2019, 08:44 PM
So they buffed the most annoying thing and biggest complaint about Orochi on console, and gave him even faster attacks, Jesus Christ... I thought he was going to get an unblockable or soft feint or something.

At least Shinobi won't be as annoying anymore.

Girl2Good
07-25-2019, 08:46 PM
HOLY CRAP STUFF!!!

So I haven't been on the forums or in game much for the last little while, been busy with a bunch of big life decisions but I will be returning more after Jormungundr dropped. TBH I also just needed a break.

Adding in my two cents on how each hero changed as well cause it'll be interesting to gather thoughts.

Peacekeeper: still has some problems, but honestly I think more stam management will do her a lot better. People want to see some real changes, but her feint game is already on point to some degree, and with changes to escapes I can see her performing better. Im not saying she gonna be a great character suddenly, or that she doesn't still need an actual set of mechanic changes, but this is an improvement. I mean be happy she got touched at all cause I didn't expect that.

Orochi: Mostly got recovery reductions. This is nice cause it allows players to have a choice other than finishing with a dodge. All these recovery fixes will improve both his offense and defense. The move of some attacks to 466ms is a long desired increment change and I'm glad he didn't change to severely.

Nobushi: Although I like a lot of the nerfs I don't feel like the damage nerfs on bleed or specific light attacks (at certain points) was really deserving of a nerf. ESPECIALLY when metrically compared to raider right now.

Valkyrie: No strong thoughts here for me. Other than I don't like that the dodge window for shield crush is reduced, but thats only cause I know I suck at reacting to bashes far too often.

Shinobi: RIP.... I mean really. He had some exploitable defensive mechs before sure but to literally remove that much uninterruptible stance from him with no compensation at all??? I mean despite his exploits he still wasn't considered top tier. This is a massive disappointment to me. This wasn't even a pass, it was a nerf hammer. Won't have hit his damage hard but playing him in 4v4 is now gonna be trash by my guess.

Warden: Recovery buffs are nice. I've always felt BP's recoveries were unfair compared to much of the cast (even with his shield) its nice to see people brought more into line.

Kensei: YESSSSSSSSS. Why didn't they tease this instead of the 3 they teased? Better dmg, Better speed, More in line attacks, ledge allowed light finishers. A very simple set of changes but much desired. Kensei may be my (fake)main for a time after this. (Aramusha will always be my main)

Tiandi: Better recoveries again! This is a good thing!

Lawbringer: I mean okay. Side finishers are a bit faster cool.

Shugoki: wont change much. I'll miss my 5 hp but the indirect buff via the reduction of back stepping and escapes will be wonderful. Still you can't think of those fixes being buffs for classes with flaws, because they were things that should have been standardized or present regardless, so although such things will positively effect slower heroes more I don't think its fair to call them buffs to those heroes.

JJ: Less safe, especially in team fights. I'm happy about this although minor.

Aramusha: They said above and I quote "Backward Combat Strafe for all heroes have been capped at 5 units maximum. (If they were slower before, they havenít changed.)
Forward Combat Strafe for all heroes have been capped at 6 units minimum. (If they were faster before, they havenít changed.)"
First off this suggests since aramusha's speed was still the lowest that he will still be the slowest. T_T. AND that second statement literally makes no sense. Let me quote it again.
"Forward Combat Strafe for all heroes have been capped at 6 units minimum. (If they were faster before, they havenít changed.)" Sooooooo can't move as fast forward buuuuuuuttt.... if you were faster than the new limit you are still faster??? what? this statement literally contradicts itself.
ANYWAYS Better movement forward with heavy feints is gonna be WONDERFUL, but is still a minor fix. It will improve him, but the underlying issues of having half your kit useless will still exist. Im excited tho to see how much changes. Can we catch easier now with heavy feint into heavy? Will GB from heavy feint actually reliably connect now? If so then I am very excited. I still want him to be larger reworked like I've posted many times tho. Reduce his damage and make him more technical and make his full kit viable with the changes I or others have presented please.

BP: reduced GB vulnerability. GB is one of his weaknesses, but I dont mind this exceptionally mild buff.

Hitokiri. Same as BP, except in this case I think it's really needed because Hito is REALLY GB vulnerable as it is.

Cent/Glad: I still feel bad for you guys. Someday soon you will get your heyday. Gotta say tho I still have some PTSD from cent release day so although my logical heart wants you both to be buffed, my core has been enjoying spending less time in cutscenes for the last forever haha.

Other thoughts:
Second wind nerf kinda made me "huh" but upon considering I do think it was warranted. Second wind also was a overly reliable way to get revenge.
Body Count nerf Saddens me.
Inspire. raising the cooldown 30 Seconds wont honestly change all that much but okay.
"[Bug Fix] Fixed an issue that caused the Lawbringer Halberd to fly out of the his hands when changing Stance while preforming the "You're welcome" emote" Honestly fixes like this make me sad cause I enjoy all the videos of weapons magically floating or flying through the air. haha

Sorry didn't feel like editing the quote to what I'm replying to.

You got the forward and backward strafe wrong. What they ment is it's normalized. Everyone backwards steps are 5 and everyone's forward is 6. It's just been normalized is all.

DaytimeRaider
07-25-2019, 08:54 PM
what the hell man they do so much for other characters but refuse to buff the reflex guard duration for Glad and Shinobi.... Please for the love of all things good just come out and say if your going to buff their reflex guard durations or not they kept saying that it was something they were going to do but still wont do it. very disapointed right now :mad:

atac56
07-25-2019, 08:54 PM
Aramusha got an indirect buff here. From what I'm getting, they sped up the gb attempt and increased his range so if they make an incorrect read and try to back dodge his soft feint, Ara can then feint and get the gb. They will have to deal with his mix up now. Thank God.

would this be good for the centurion as well? it doesnt sound like simply backing away from his kick will do the trick anymore

AC35S4S51N
07-25-2019, 09:06 PM
lol already uninstalled the game this really shows how incompetent these developers first they give a major buff to raider.. But I was still able to do something against raider because of the uninterruptible now they remove that and give **** in return. Shinobi can be added to the ****tiest class list. Well done idiots.

Knight_Raime
07-25-2019, 09:15 PM
They kept his insane damage profile and didn't address his charge option selects. So he's still quite good. He just can't ignore what's happening on the field anymore and get EZ setup kills.

AC35S4S51N
07-25-2019, 09:16 PM
Why the *** would anyone now use kick, dodge, backflip etc etc as you will take the risk losing 1/3 to 1/2 of your hp? The least you could do is increase his health pool fkn ******s.

allenhollow
07-25-2019, 09:16 PM
aramusha even with dodge changes his major problems are still there : no opener and deadly feints are almost useless they are only good to give high players a free parry

Goat_of_Vermund
07-25-2019, 09:18 PM
From the name, the new undodgable pk attack is the forward dodge attack (aka the move that everyone used to learn to parry against players who use gapclosers from neutral in 1v1). I am still thinking about how it can be incorporated into any mixup I use now, there is no attack that she has that forces out a dodge, and it will work only as a slower and weaker dagger cancel if we use heavy softfeints into it (even if not parried all the time, I can't imagine how it won't be blocked- maybe the only use is making people go for a counter on a dagger cancel parry on indicator and hit them with this instead). That 15 damage on light is something they should have done 12 bloody months ago, and I doubt we will really feel it, plus her heavies are still garbage.
What might be a bit noticable is the very small stamina buff, and if we really get the frame advantage on a dagger cancel/deep gouge that landed or ww get the recovery necessary to defend after a succesful riposting stab on HA opponent, pk is already a lot better. It might really help her a little, altought this is still low B tier level. At least this is the first time for months when it is not crystal clear that she is the weakest, I believe that title now belongs to Warlord and Centurion.

Shinobi will still be irritating, but at least for both parties now, which is an improvement :D


Edit: I know it is not right, but I honestly understand you guys how did you feel when the old pk was nerfed to the ground. I think he deserves some real rework now, but after the bs they dragged us into with that character, it really feels a bit less wrong what happened to him.

Hormly
07-25-2019, 10:42 PM
Loving all the great fixes to warlords kit 🤗 thanks ubi

Fullblock and parry punish are finally usable again!

TOCKSYK
07-25-2019, 10:58 PM
So they basically tweaked some numbers

Mhm, cool

So let's see what Ubisoft Balance Team has been working on for the past 3 months since Hito release: numbers. Literally numbers. No new move concepts, no additions, no nothing

I say mostly everyone got a slice of cake in this season except Cent, Glad and Warlord who REALLY NEEDED IT...

Like come on, now we gotta struggle for another 3 months or so, playing our underpowered mains while being outperformed by new heroes and reworked characters

The one I am most mad about is Centurion. And I don't just say that because I main him. I say it because it's common sense. And everyone in here can agree that he is, at the moment, the worst character in the game and the character everyone makes fun of

They didn't even need to rework him like they reworked Shugoki or Raider for example. Guys, just slap a soft feint in his unblockable, make the charged jab track early dodges and give that zone a little feint and he is ready to go!

Shinobi received his feintable zone ages ago, why was not Cent included in that patch? I'm so mind blown about how ignorant they are when it comes to Centurion and Gladiator. Warlord is crippled as well, but you know..he has the bash, the undodgeable zone, he has some tools to do something

I am disappointed. I hoped for a rework on Black Prior release, I hoped on Hito release, and now on this one. Nope, I quit hoping. I'll forever be stuck turtling and dying in 20 seconds against new heroes mix ups

Have a great time people who don't main Cent and Glad... i hope you're enjoying the game... we'll just sit here..watching you play..and have fun..

Illyrian_King
07-25-2019, 11:23 PM
The changes they made were neccessary and well justified, but a bit more compensation would have been nice indeed. I really hoped for better/faster standard ranged attacks, since his ranged aspect is pretty much forgotten in 1vs1. There is no really pressure to fill the distance gap.

Zhantay
07-25-2019, 11:55 PM
Damn so they remove Nobushi's Swift Recoil, well no more kiting. Got a slightly better offense, much weaker defense; but at least the attacks out of HS are fast enough to hit someone and Body Count got nerfed again along with Second Wind.
Man I wish they gave her a deflect, she already has the side dash lights, heavies and the dash forward lights and heavies just give me something else to use so I don't have to 100% rely on HS to kill people, I mean yea bleed stacks but the damage on it has been nerfed too. Deflects are like the coolest thing to pull off next to crushing counters.
And bring back Blissful Rest with all these other nonsense feats that are in game

Valoredramack
07-25-2019, 11:59 PM
As a Rep 27 Shinobi, I will definitely not be using the Shinobi in matches any longer, that hero has been nerfed into the ground and the patch didn't rework the Shinobi's lack of viability in 1v1.

However, part of me is very glad that now I have incentive to learn a new hero like Jormungandr. My Shinobi is completely maxed out, I needed a good reason to dump this hero and Ubisoft delivered on that incentive without question.

It's been fun, but it's time to put down the sickles and to pick up the warhammer.

Knight_Raime
07-26-2019, 12:14 AM
Damn so they remove Nobushi's Swift Recoil, well no more kiting. Got a slightly better offense, much weaker defense; but at least the attacks out of HS are fast enough to hit someone and Body Count got nerfed again along with Second Wind.
Man I wish they gave her a deflect, she already has the side dash lights, heavies and the dash forward lights and heavies just give me something else to use so I don't have to 100% rely on HS to kill people, I mean yea bleed stacks but the damage on it has been nerfed too. Deflects are like the coolest thing to pull off next to crushing counters.
And bring back Blissful Rest with all these other nonsense feats that are in game

I was REALLY hoping they'ed keep swift recoil and find some way to make it work like maybe a parry counter input. Since Bushi is all about spacing and that tool was supposed to help her space.
However I saw it coming on it's removal. Devs have been steadily removing any niche, wonky, dead moves. We saw it with Valk. We saw it with Aramusha. etc.

Siegfried-Z
07-26-2019, 12:56 AM
what the hell man they do so much for other characters but refuse to buff the reflex guard duration for Glad and Shinobi.... Please for the love of all things good just come out and say if your going to buff their reflex guard durations or not they kept saying that it was something they were going to do but still wont do it. very disapointed right now :mad:

They did for Shinobi. His guard gonna be 1100ms.


They kept his insane damage profile and didn't address his charge option selects. So he's still quite good. He just can't ignore what's happening on the field anymore and get EZ setup kills.

Well at the end only his double lights, heavy parry punish and deflect are really high.

And as deflect is not something you can pull off on each fight that easly plus now a sickle rain interuptible plus and more harder to perform i am not sure we can still speak about an "insane dmg profile" .

High dmg yes, but nothing crazy for an assassin which can be 3 shots by most heroes :/

What is the point to high dmg if you have no offense ?

What is the point of letting him his safe tools plus one of his option select if he cant really fight back anymore ?

Shinobi strengh now is only running arround and use his famous rotation.
But outside of that such a hard nerf without any compensations for his lack of offense is just a lame.
They also kill the fun with Shino as having fun with him was mostly about catching/baiting people with range GB and this gonna be much more harder now.

I would have wish the team really take your ideas about how to rework him and use it but it looks like the team just wanted to put Shinobi in the trashbox and dont care about him.

TOCKSYK
07-26-2019, 06:52 AM
As a Rep 27 Shinobi, I will definitely not be using the Shinobi in matches any longer, that hero has been nerfed into the ground and the patch didn't rework the Shinobi's lack of viability in 1v1.

However, part of me is very glad that now I have incentive to learn a new hero like Jormungandr. My Shinobi is completely maxed out, I needed a good reason to dump this hero and Ubisoft delivered on that incentive without question.

It's been fun, but it's time to put down the sickles and to pick up the warhammer.

I don't know what to say about the new Viking hero. He lacks a good opener. His second light is undodgeable which is bad against assassins since it's easy to deflect and his neutral bash doesn't do much

But if you just like the aesthetic go for it

V1ltt1
07-26-2019, 12:21 PM
I was hoping for a slight dmg buff for Shugoki since his output is really sad right now, but instead he got nerfed again lol.

Goat_of_Vermund
07-26-2019, 12:41 PM
It doesn't deal damage, and since there is no ha followup, I am sure a dodge attack will safely punish it.

littlefluffyegg
07-26-2019, 12:43 PM
I was hoping for a slight dmg buff for Shugoki since his output is really sad right now, but instead he got nerfed again lol.

Are you serious? Shinobi has crazy damage,29 for heavy parries and 40 light parries,and nearly 100 if a teammate decides to cooperate with your sickle rain..

LEGENDz_31
07-26-2019, 01:23 PM
Most of the changes are good, I am bit sad about orochi. I think they gave us improvements but They further made us spammy. I was hoping for a slight change to the kit. I feel like we are the most hated character and itís getting worse. I canít play the game without out getting some sort of private message on how I am rep 70 and I suck even though I lead the board. No one seems to remember season 4 and 5 people like myself still playing orochi taken a beating when he was dog poo. I know people are toxic but Orochi seems to be the worst with that, or do other consistently have the same problem and I am just being sensitive?

Knight_Raime
07-26-2019, 02:34 PM
Well at the end only his double lights, heavy parry punish and deflect are really high.

And as deflect is not something you can pull off on each fight that easly plus now a sickle rain interuptible plus and more harder to perform i am not sure we can still speak about an "insane dmg profile" .

High dmg yes, but nothing crazy for an assassin which can be 3 shots by most heroes :/

What is the point to high dmg if you have no offense ?

What is the point of letting him his safe tools plus one of his option select if he cant really fight back anymore ?

Shinobi strengh now is only running arround and use his famous rotation.
But outside of that such a hard nerf without any compensations for his lack of offense is just a lame.
They also kill the fun with Shino as having fun with him was mostly about catching/baiting people with range GB and this gonna be much more harder now.

I would have wish the team really take your ideas about how to rework him and use it but it looks like the team just wanted to put Shinobi in the trashbox and dont care about him.

Sickle rain is still strong damage wise. Just because you can't get EZ one's anymore doesn't change that.
You deflect with him rather often if you use his charge option selects actually. I'd argue he's the worst offender now that Nobushi received a hefty nerf.
He didn't have an offense before and his high damage still worked.

Yes it would have been nice if they reworked him to remove his annoying style of play. But they seem to believe that's who Shinobi is. So.
TBH between shin and bushi nerfs I think Bushi not only got hit harder but is probably effected the most by her nerfs. Shinobi probably won't move around much placement wise in 4's. Nobushi could go anywhere from high A to mid to low B.

Siegfried-Z
07-26-2019, 02:40 PM
Most of the changes are good, I am bit sad about orochi. I think they gave us improvements but They further made us spammy. I was hoping for a slight change to the kit. I feel like we are the most hated character and itís getting worse. I canít play the game without out getting some sort of private message on how I am rep 70 and I suck even though I lead the board. No one seems to remember season 4 and 5 people like myself still playing orochi taken a beating when he was dog poo. I know people are toxic but Orochi seems to be the worst with that, or do other consistently have the same problem and I am just being sensitive?

I think a lot of people dislike Orochi (including me) mostly because he is very beginners friendly and promotes lights spam/brainless gameplay and with the recent changes they just boost this part of him which is not fun either for Roch players and for his opponents.

Playing on console i can just imagine Roch now having a 466ms - 400ms - 466ms/400ms lights chain plus a 466ms zone... he is offically the most spammy heroe of the game now.

Thats too bad because i dont play him but i think most Roch player would have prefer to get a bash opener as the Tozen kick or any kind of mindgame mix up more than getting fast attack faster than they were already :/

This is clearly some very poors changes made to him.

LEGENDz_31
07-26-2019, 04:56 PM
I think a lot of people dislike Orochi (including me) mostly because he is very beginners friendly and promotes lights spam/brainless gameplay and with the recent changes they just boost this part of him which is not fun either for Roch players and for his opponents.

Playing on console i can just imagine Roch now having a 466ms - 400ms - 466ms/400ms lights chain plus a 466ms zone... he is offically the most spammy heroe of the game now.

Thats too bad because i dont play him but i think most Roch player would have prefer to get a bash opener as the Tozen kick or any kind of mindgame mix up more than getting fast attack faster than they were already :/

This is clearly some very poors changes made to him.

I agree 100%

Siegfried-Z
07-26-2019, 06:26 PM
Sickle rain is still strong damage wise. Just because you can't get EZ one's anymore doesn't change that.
You deflect with him rather often if you use his charge option selects actually. I'd argue he's the worst offender now that Nobushi received a hefty nerf.
He didn't have an offense before and his high damage still worked.

Yes it would have been nice if they reworked him to remove his annoying style of play. But they seem to believe that's who Shinobi is. So.
TBH between shin and bushi nerfs I think Bushi not only got hit harder but is probably effected the most by her nerfs. Shinobi probably won't move around much placement wise in 4's. Nobushi could go anywhere from high A to mid to low B.

You are right to say this but now to remain effective Shinobi players would have to be more carefull as ever and play the "safe game" as much as possible.

He cant take risk anymore as it used to be with his armor. It means he is now pretty uninteresting to play with :/ he will become very boring to play now.

And his only kind of "offense" with kick now will be a lot more risky and easy to interrupt.

Thats why i said RIP. What is the point/fun to play him now ?

Nobushi HS nerf is a huge one but at least her offense became much more efficient and its going to help her a lot at least for 75% of the playerbase.

But she is far less safe now i 100% agree.

The team use to always balance their changes with some compensation in some areas for a nerf on another one.
It looks they just forgot it with Shino.

Vakris_One
07-26-2019, 08:04 PM
You are right to say this but now to remain effective Shinobi players would have to be more carefull as ever and play the "safe game" as much as possible.

He cant take risk anymore as it used to be with his armor. It means he is now pretty uninteresting to play with :/ he will become very boring to play now.

And his only kind of "offense" with kick now will be a lot more risky and easy to interrupt.

Thats why i said RIP. What is the point/fun to play him now ?

Nobushi HS nerf is a huge one but at least her offense became much more efficient and its going to help her a lot at least for 75% of the playerbase.

But she is far less safe now i 100% agree.

The team use to always balance their changes with some compensation in some areas for a nerf on another one.
It looks they just forgot it with Shino.
Actually they have a pretty solid track record of hard nerfs on certain heroes with no compensations. Remember they crippled Warlord without adequate compensation. Same with PK. And they've done the same with Nobushi as well as Shinobi now. These are all heroes that needed a better designed kit but instead they got hit with a led pipe across the legs.

Hormly
07-26-2019, 08:41 PM
Actually they have a pretty solid track record of hard nerfs on certain heroes with no compensations. Remember they crippled Warlord without adequate compensation. Same with PK. And they've done the same with Nobushi as well as Shinobi now. These are all heroes that needed a better designed kit but instead they got hit with a led pipe across the legs.

I remember the day they complete knee capped the warlord into dust and I took a break from the game, they did roll a few of those nerfs back however, so not all hope is lost

Goat_of_Vermund
07-26-2019, 09:18 PM
My hopes were broken a few times, but I think I give them my trust again because of these public test servers and because my pk is a bit more useful (though I don't know how much it helps against the top tiers or against a girl who can serve me a 80 damage combo if I make the wrong read oos, while I have next to zero oos pressure).

Siegfried-Z
07-27-2019, 11:28 AM
Actually they have a pretty solid track record of hard nerfs on certain heroes with no compensations. Remember they crippled Warlord without adequate compensation. Same with PK. And they've done the same with Nobushi as well as Shinobi now. These are all heroes that needed a better designed kit but instead they got hit with a led pipe across the legs.

The fact they made a few mistakes isnt an excuse for doing so again.

When they actually work on a heroe their goal is always some buffs and nerfs together.

For exemple less dmg for more speed is one of their favorite, they did it again with Roch, Nobu and Kensei.

Or less defense for better pressure etc

Hard nerf like this has never end in a good results. Considering Shinobi was already a high skills ceiling heroe, now hes gonna be absolutly trash for others players than Diam to GM one.

But hey maybe some Nice buff like +1 dmg on lights as PK gonna come .. 😅

allenhollow
07-27-2019, 12:42 PM
i can feel the incoming shinobi turtle

Valoredramack
07-28-2019, 04:22 AM
i can feel the incoming shinobi turtle

I don't even think Post-Nerf Shinobi will try to turtle, they will just run away and come back when their opponent is outnumbered so that they can poke and harrass using Ranged Attacks.

I have a Rep 28 Shinobi and that's exactly what I would do if I continued using this massively nerfed Shinobi, I'd roam the battlefield capturing points and just trolling enemies that are distracted by my allies and I would avoid most 1v1 confrontations completely because it's not even worth trying to fight face-to-face anymore. I can almost guarantee that the player base is not going to like what the Nerfed-Shinobi playstyle evolves into.

If people felt that the Shinobi used cheap tactics before, then they haven't seen anything yet because now 1v1 fights are even less viable then they already were for the Shinobi.

I think this Nerf is going to backfire as an ironic type of reckoning against Shinobi haters, because now they're going to experience a lot more hit-and-run tactics from Shinobi players. Shinobi is going to transform from being a fighter to being a sniper or backstabber.

We.the.North
07-28-2019, 05:34 AM
Kensei will now have a 90% winrate against Shinobi.

The hyperarmor used to allow shinobi to get some trades with the kensei since his tracking and timing of attack were that insane vs shinobi. Now ? Forget it.

The only thing they needed to remove from Shinobi was the 100% - 0% during sickle rain. That's it. I have no idea why they nerfed him to the ground like that.

The_B0G_
07-31-2019, 01:08 PM
I don't even think Post-Nerf Shinobi will try to turtle, they will just run away and come back when their opponent is outnumbered so that they can poke and harrass using Ranged Attacks.

I have a Rep 28 Shinobi and that's exactly what I would do if I continued using this massively nerfed Shinobi, I'd roam the battlefield capturing points and just trolling enemies that are distracted by my allies and I would avoid most 1v1 confrontations completely because it's not even worth trying to fight face-to-face anymore. I can almost guarantee that the player base is not going to like what the Nerfed-Shinobi playstyle evolves into.

If people felt that the Shinobi used cheap tactics before, then they haven't seen anything yet because now 1v1 fights are even less viable then they already were for the Shinobi.

I think this Nerf is going to backfire as an ironic type of reckoning against Shinobi haters, because now they're going to experience a lot more hit-and-run tactics from Shinobi players. Shinobi is going to transform from being a fighter to being a sniper or backstabber.

Most of the Shinobi's I ran into in Dom already played like this, except they would 1v1 you until you hit them a couple times, then they would run away until they got a gank opportunity, he's always had a cowardly playstyle, at least now he can be caught a bit easier.

Vakris_One
07-31-2019, 02:46 PM
Kensei will now have a 90% winrate against Shinobi.

The hyperarmor used to allow shinobi to get some trades with the kensei since his tracking and timing of attack were that insane vs shinobi. Now ? Forget it.

The only thing they needed to remove from Shinobi was the 100% - 0% during sickle rain. That's it. I have no idea why they nerfed him to the ground like that.
My first question has to be; why are you even attempting to trade with a Kensei as Shinobi? You can stuff him out of his opener on reaction to seeing the top heavy. Or you can simply space him out. Backflip on seeing his top heavy and you get a free ranged GB if he either went for pommel strike, let the heavy fly or feinted the heavy. You beat all 3 options with just a single move.

The only attacks that give Kensei enough tracking to reach a competent Shinobi is his zone and side finisher heavies. Both of which the Shinobi can backflip on reaction and get a ranged GB for massive damage. The zone would hit his hyper armour for a mere 20 damage (i.e. a bad trade) while the side heavy is slow enough for the Shinobi to safely dodge away from completely untouched. Kensei has some of the slowest attacks and longest recoveries in the entire game so no idea where this "insane timing of attack vs Shinobi" idea is coming from.

If anything, the removal of hyper armour on kick, backflip and deflect is finally giving Kensei a fair fight against a Shinobi that can safely make mistakes without getting punished for it by converting those mistakes into punishes of his own. The Kensei vs Shinobi matchup has been entirely in favour of Shinobi if the Shinobi player is even halfway competent.

Chump94
07-31-2019, 04:04 PM
My first question has to be; why are you even attempting to trade with a Kensei as Shinobi? You can stuff him out of his opener on reaction to seeing the top heavy. Or you can simply space him out. Backflip on seeing his top heavy and you get a free ranged GB if he either went for pommel strike, let the heavy fly or feinted the heavy. You beat all 3 options with just a single move.

The only attacks that give Kensei enough tracking to reach a competent Shinobi is his zone and side finisher heavies. Both of which the Shinobi can backflip on reaction and get a ranged GB for massive damage. The zone would hit his hyper armour for a mere 20 damage (i.e. a bad trade) while the side heavy is slow enough for the Shinobi to safely dodge away from completely untouched. Kensei has some of the slowest attacks and longest recoveries in the entire game so no idea where this "insane timing of attack vs Shinobi" idea is coming from.

If anything, the removal of hyper armour on kick, backflip and deflect is finally giving Kensei a fair fight against a Shinobi that can safely make mistakes without getting punished for it by converting those mistakes into punishes of his own. The Kensei vs Shinobi matchup has been entirely in favour of Shinobi if the Shinobi player is even halfway competent.

I think you misunderstand how shinobi works he can't just backflip whenever he feels like it.

Vakris_One
07-31-2019, 04:50 PM
I think you misunderstand how shinobi works he can't just backflip whenever he feels like it.
That is exactly what Shinobi can do. Against the entire cast. It's the single biggest factor of his extreme safety.

It's literally the reason the devs specifically mentioned addressing Shinobi's backlip along with Nobushi Hidden Stance as being too safe.

The_B0G_
07-31-2019, 08:36 PM
I think you misunderstand how shinobi works he can't just backflip whenever he feels like it.

As a rule of thumb for the forums, when it comes to the technical side of For Honor, Vakris_One or Knight_Raime are right 99% of the time, as annoying as that may be sometimes lol

Chump94
08-01-2019, 04:10 AM
That is exactly what Shinobi can do. Against the entire cast. It's the single biggest factor of his extreme safety.

It's literally the reason the devs specifically mentioned addressing Shinobi's backlip along with Nobushi Hidden Stance as being too safe.

I'm not saying that backlfip isn't a safe move but he needs to throw an attack of kick before he can backflip so you can't just backflip on reaction to avoid any move.