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Ruthless_Knives
07-17-2019, 10:03 PM
I am trying to understand why in this modern age do people try to act like there aren't flaws in this game?

Isn't the purpose for forums to learn what people do and dont like about the game. At the end of the day its up to massive anyway to choose what they will and wont fix in the game but if we can constructively bring flaws to their attention to possibly address I think that is a good thing.

Case in example we all know loot drops are terrible and the RNG system isnt working to well but people saying stop whining just becuase you may not want better loot or find the loot system terrible because it doesn't affect your style or purpose for playing this game?

One thing I do like about this game over the previous one is it does make me want to play more because of the control points getting invaded and taken over by NPC.

I do like the raid being challenging but also found that making it so difficult kind of creates this group of hollier than thou players who have beat the raid who request you sacrifice a goat, have 100% damage to elties while having 30% all weapon damage. Well this is kind of hard to do with the current loot system but I will still try,


Second PvP PvP PvP needs work thats all I will say, but I do enjoy having pvp in the game.

BioXTC
07-17-2019, 10:16 PM
I don't see anyone saying the game is perfect. Some people however take exception to the "omg this game sucks because X X and X", it's like yes there are issues (some serious) but at least be constructive, and some of them may not be as sky falling as you're making it out to be.

And some of it is just difference of opinion. Raid MM being a prime example. I personally don't think the raid as is should have auto matchmaking (I'm cool with an easy mode raid with MM tho), but that's not because I'm defending massive, it's just my opinion and it happens to agree with massives.

NvTwist74
07-17-2019, 10:37 PM
Maybe itís because of all that hard earned CASH they worked hard for & the product DOES NOT live up to the hype from developer & is broken.

TribeCheckAHoe
07-17-2019, 10:49 PM
Because some people likes things.. and some people dislike things and sometimes people are passionate about their feelings..

You should also always remember.. this is the internet.. we're typically reading people's text.. context, cadence, tones things of the sort are all questionable here..

Add that in with trolls.. and people arguing for the sake of it(I'm guilty at times).


And we have what you're describing.

Ground-Hugg2018
07-17-2019, 10:51 PM
UBI/Massive are the creators of a perfect game and are gamer GODS!!

Kinslayer1447
07-17-2019, 11:29 PM
Maybe itís because of all that hard earned CASH they worked hard for & the product DOES NOT live up to the hype from developer & is broken.

But it isn't broken. It's not even close to Broken. Broken means you can't even launch the game. The game works, it plays all the systems work. You may not agree with how they work, or the outcome at times, but it isn't broken.

Ruthless_Knives
07-17-2019, 11:32 PM
But it isn't broken. It's not even close to Broken. Broken means you can't even launch the game. The game works, it plays all the systems work. You may not agree with how they work, or the outcome at times, but it isn't broken.

I dont know the reviver hive still seems glitchy and incosistent.Me and my clan mates have been getting more delta disconnects this week.

Probably had one of the most decent launches in recent history compared to other games but it has some major bugs.

Uhnomuhlee
07-17-2019, 11:48 PM
Recently, the psychological community has "invented" a disorder called Gaming Disorder, which is essentially a template for an addiction.

Society is dramatically shifting from collectivism to individualism and people today are fixated on the self instead interdependency. This translates to people thinking their needs trump anyone else's needs.

Instead of taking into consideration what is good for an entire playerbase, most people (especially younger adults) only.consider what is good for their experience. This results in comments not very well thought out considering the fact most online games today target a vast audience and are not designed with isolation in mind.

Comments in video game forums, and other forums and mediums are a testament to this theory.

Cadillac-Jack
07-18-2019, 12:07 AM
My question from the side-lines is

Why do people feel the need to Gameshame those who do like a game.

there is nothing wrong with defending a game that you like against those who hate the same game, but those who do defend because they like it usually get one of a few things thrown their way and those are

SHILL
Employee
PAID by
Paid troll
or
Paid Shill

And vice-versa those who hate get crap thrown their way, it's just a stupid circle of toxicity that helps no one in any way shape or form especially in a forum.

Are we not all gamers that are in it together?

Demiz3r
07-18-2019, 12:08 AM
Recently, the psychological community has "invented" a disorder called Gaming Disorder, which is essentially a template for an addiction.

Society is dramatically shifting from collectivism to individualism and people today are fixated on the self instead interdependency. This translates to people thinking their needs trump anyone else's needs.

Instead of taking into consideration what is good for an entire playerbase, most people (especially younger adults) only.consider what is good for their experience. This results in comments not very well thought out considering the fact most online games today target a vast audience and are not designed with isolation in mind.

Comments in video game forums, and other forums and mediums are a testament to this theory.

Lol.

eskimosound
07-18-2019, 12:16 AM
Recently, the psychological community has "invented" a disorder called Gaming Disorder, which is essentially a template for an addiction.

Society is dramatically shifting from collectivism to individualism and people today are fixated on the self instead interdependency. This translates to people thinking their needs trump anyone else's needs.

Instead of taking into consideration what is good for an entire playerbase, most people (especially younger adults) only.consider what is good for their experience. This results in comments not very well thought out considering the fact most online games today target a vast audience and are not designed with isolation in mind.

Comments in video game forums, and other forums and mediums are a testament to this theory.
Double Lol...

Neo_Intended
07-18-2019, 12:26 AM
Recently, the psychological community has "invented" a disorder called Gaming Disorder, which is essentially a template for an addiction.

Society is dramatically shifting from collectivism to individualism and people today are fixated on the self instead interdependency. This translates to people thinking their needs trump anyone else's needs.

Instead of taking into consideration what is good for an entire playerbase, most people (especially younger adults) only.consider what is good for their experience. This results in comments not very well thought out considering the fact most online games today target a vast audience and are not designed with isolation in mind.

Comments in video game forums, and other forums and mediums are a testament to this theory.

+1

Pretty smart, generally I appreciate your comments.

Actually it's the problem of the developer to satisfy the special needs of his costumers. Let them have it.

TribeCheckAHoe
07-18-2019, 12:31 AM
+1

Actually it's the problem of the developer to satisfy the special needs of his costumers. Let them have it.

+1 for... Special needs. ;-)

TribeCheckAHoe
07-18-2019, 12:32 AM
Recently, the psychological community has "invented" a disorder called Gaming Disorder, which is essentially a template for an addiction.

Society is dramatically shifting from collectivism to individualism and people today are fixated on the self instead interdependency. This translates to people thinking their needs trump anyone else's needs.

Instead of taking into consideration what is good for an entire playerbase, most people (especially younger adults) only.consider what is good for their experience. This results in comments not very well thought out considering the fact most online games today target a vast audience and are not designed with isolation in mind.

Comments in video game forums, and other forums and mediums are a testament to this theory.

I've read a bunch of your post here recently... I like em for the most part, this one included.

YodaMan 3D
07-18-2019, 12:38 AM
Blinded by passion. Some players are just blinded by their own passion. They have their experiences and assume that everyone shares those same experiences. Meanwhile, we don't we play the game and it isn't the same for all. So when different players talk about their own experiences, those who feel their experience is threatened. They feel others are calling them liars.

Uhnomuhlee
07-18-2019, 12:47 AM
Thank you agents:)


Blinded by passion. Some players are just blinded by their own passion. They have their experiences and assume that everyone shares those same experiences. Meanwhile, we don't we play the game and it isn't the same for all. So when different players talk about their own experiences, those who feel their experience is threatened. They feel others are calling them liars.

I can get behind this statement too. Definitely fueled by passion.

Very insightful post.

Medicles
07-18-2019, 12:56 AM
Recently, the psychological community has "invented" a disorder called Gaming Disorder, which is essentially a template for an addiction.

Society is dramatically shifting from collectivism to individualism and people today are fixated on the self instead interdependency. This translates to people thinking their needs trump anyone else's needs.

Instead of taking into consideration what is good for an entire playerbase, most people (especially younger adults) only.consider what is good for their experience. This results in comments not very well thought out considering the fact most online games today target a vast audience and are not designed with isolation in mind.

Comments in video game forums, and other forums and mediums are a testament to this theory.

Exactly, since society was always about taking into consideration what is best for the community, People never tended to be egoistic or cared only for their own needs, this just started recently, after the internet was created and connected the whole world.

D-Y-N-4-M-O
07-18-2019, 01:05 AM
Recently, the psychological community has "invented" a disorder called Gaming Disorder, which is essentially a template for an addiction.

Society is dramatically shifting from collectivism to individualism and people today are fixated on the self instead interdependency. This translates to people thinking their needs trump anyone else's needs.

Instead of taking into consideration what is good for an entire playerbase, most people (especially younger adults) only.consider what is good for their experience. This results in comments not very well thought out considering the fact most online games today target a vast audience and are not designed with isolation in mind.

Comments in video game forums, and other forums and mediums are a testament to this theory.



Blinded by passion. Some players are just blinded by their own passion. They have their experiences and assume that everyone shares those same experiences. Meanwhile, we don't we play the game and it isn't the same for all. So when different players talk about their own experiences, those who feel their experience is threatened. They feel others are calling them liars.

That.

Negativity towards a strong emotional attachment is often perceived as a threat.

There is also difference of opinion & personal preferences to those who don't read too deep.

D-Y-N-4-M-O
07-18-2019, 01:10 AM
Exactly, since society was always about taking into consideration what is best for the community, People never tended to be egoistic or cared only for their own needs, this just started recently, after the internet was created and connected the whole world.

Says the dude that rarely PvP's, yet is in various PvP threads telling PvP players to go and play another game. :rolleyes:

Medicles
07-18-2019, 01:37 AM
Says to dude that rarely PvP's, yet is in various PvP threads telling PvP players to go and play another game. :rolleyes:

Because pvp is in an extremely bad state and wont be better until the pve problems are fixed. But you people want they spend ressources on pvp right now. Thats the problem in a game that has pve and pvp in the same damn realm.

You are also the proof of the actual problem of gaming communities. The lack of knowledge about video game development.

D-Y-N-4-M-O
07-18-2019, 01:54 AM
Because pvp is in an extremely bad state and wont be better until the pve problems are fixed. But you people want they spend ressources on pvp right now. Thats the problem in a game that has pve and pvp in the same damn realm.

You are also the proof of the actual problem of gaming communities. The lack of knowledge about video game development.

Wrong.

I was simply discussing changes to skills on the PTS regarding PvP. A PvP modifier. A proportion of this game and playerbase that exists within it that you want to neglect. Because? - "resources". You for real?

Like I already told you, adjusting a PvP modifier is not moving heaven and earth. Your argument about "spending resources" and my "lack of knowledge about video game development" is comical.

You can't see how your beliefs and behaviour in some threads are contradictory, yet you claim that I am - "also the proof of the actual problem of gaming communities" for simply wanting to help improve PvP or having an personal opinion on the subject.

Hmm, makes total sense. :rolleyes:

Auztinito
07-18-2019, 02:11 AM
Because people think they have to defend others. They're playing hero.

I do ask the question, why do "gamers" have to shame, disparage, and/or slam developers, designers, artists, and writers on how a game should be as if they have any idea on how to create a video game. For example, most if not all so-called "consumers" that play game or identify as "hardcore gamer" are nothing but a parasite that consumes whatever they want and have no idea or knowledge in creating anything. Most of the time, if I am being blunt (and assumptious) they could not create anything even when following a tutorial. How many of said groups could create a working build of Pong. I'd assume less than 10% could. I hate people that blindly defend games but I hate "consumers" more ("Pro-Consumer" types) because they add nothing to the discussion.

P.S These are the same "gamers" that say they're against Pay-to-Win mechanics like Fallout 76 repair kits but will vouch for Warframe as pinnacle of a "Pro-Consumer" company. The game that allows player to buy the frames and guns (Essentially gear) with real money not to mention shortcut crafting times that last weeks for real currency.

SHDLBC
07-18-2019, 02:47 AM
It doesnít bug me personally when people level a legitimate criticism. What gets me is how personal some people get when they do it, swearing at developers and community managers and even sometimes calling for people to be fired. I just donít feel like people deserve to be treated like that. In the end, itís a game, and I donít understand the personal vitriol that a few people have to inject into the ďdiscussion.Ē

I also think the mistake a lot of us make is assuming that our experience is indicative of the whole player base. I have a lot of fun with the game, others obviously donít. On the flip side we get threads almost daily about ďgame is broken and unplayable,Ē when thatís obviously not the case for everyone either.

Goo-Goo-Man
07-18-2019, 02:56 AM
Why do people get defensive?

The very same reason why people decide to crap all over the game.

Because they can.

Itís amazing what a keyboard, 5 minutes spare time and a connection to the internet spawns every so often.......

Lol

Uhnomuhlee
07-18-2019, 02:59 AM
It doesnít bug me personally when people level a legitimate criticism. What gets me is how personal some people get when they do it, swearing at developers and community managers and even sometimes calling for people to be fired. I just donít feel like people deserve to be treated like that. In the end, itís a game, and I donít understand the personal vitriol that a few people have to inject into the ďdiscussion.Ē

I also think the mistake a lot of us make is assuming that our experience is indicative of the whole player base. I have a lot of fun with the game, others obviously donít. On the flip side we get threads almost daily about ďgame is broken and unplayable,Ē when thatís obviously not the case for everyone either.

People getting fired hit the nail on the head for me. I couldn't agree more.

I mean, even if a dev makes a huge mistake, they still have a mortgage, possibly kids to support, and God knows what else. I don't know about anyone else, but I've made some colossal mistakes in my life, both personally and professionally...we ALL have. Doesn't mean we should be on the street.

No one is perfect, and people that say, "You shouldn't be in the line of work if you can't perform" are probably the least perfect people out there.

SHDLBC
07-18-2019, 03:12 AM
People getting fired hit the nail on the head for me. I couldn't agree more.

I mean, even if a dev makes a huge mistake, they still have a mortgage, possibly kids to support, and God knows what else. I don't know about anyone else, but I've made some colossal mistakes in my life, both personally and professionally...we ALL have. Doesn't mean we should be on the street.

No one is perfect, and people that say, "You shouldn't be in the line of work if you can't perform" are probably the least perfect people out there.

Yep. Iíve screwed up pretty bad in my life too and have been very fortunate that I havenít had people calling for my head.

Agree 100%

Merphee
07-18-2019, 03:15 AM
It’s amazing what a keyboard, 5 minutes spare time and a connection to the internet spawns every so often.......

Lol

Don't forget the false confidence that comes with anonymity ;)

Marriorqq
07-18-2019, 03:59 AM
People getting fired hit the nail on the head for me. I couldn't agree more.

I mean, even if a dev makes a huge mistake, they still have a mortgage, possibly kids to support, and God knows what else. I don't know about anyone else, but I've made some colossal mistakes in my life, both personally and professionally...we ALL have. Doesn't mean we should be on the street.

No one is perfect, and people that say, "You shouldn't be in the line of work if you can't perform" are probably the least perfect people out there.

Sometimes it is not necessary to be too persistent. Social murders do not mean that the entire society is a murderer.

The perception of one thing cannot be exactly the same. Modern people lack the noble spirit and pursue interests and enjoyment.

If a person understands self-reflection and accepts the opinions of others humbly (not necessarily obeying), some people will not have an election or request to remove his position.

But this is just work. A big foundation comes from his ability to work. At most we can only expect others, but we cannot ask others to have a high standard of character.

But from my personal point of view, people with high standards or dreams of pursuing. In terms of corporate costs, it is better to complete the purpose time and reduce losses.

Take the example of the game world, it should be a blizzard (and the history of its changes)


If politics is a bit harsh, people like to pursue perfect people (even if this thing does not exist), so once you make a big mistake, you have to withdraw from politics.

Civil organizations are diversified. You can get rid of your current job. Cut off your salary. The record will affect the future promotion. The boss will talk to you (giving you a chance)

Directly asking you to go home is the least unrealistic, so don't be too nervous.

DarkKnight27us
07-18-2019, 07:18 AM
I am trying to understand why in this modern age do people try to act like there aren't flaws in this game?

Isn't the purpose for forums to learn what people do and dont like about the game. At the end of the day its up to massive anyway to choose what they will and wont fix in the game but if we can constructively bring flaws to their attention to possibly address I think that is a good thing.

Case in example we all know loot drops are terrible and the RNG system isnt working to well but people saying stop whining just becuase you may not want better loot or find the loot system terrible because it doesn't affect your style or purpose for playing this game?

One thing I do like about this game over the previous one is it does make me want to play more because of the control points getting invaded and taken over by NPC.

I do like the raid being challenging but also found that making it so difficult kind of creates this group of hollier than thou players who have beat the raid who request you sacrifice a goat, have 100% damage to elties while having 30% all weapon damage. Well this is kind of hard to do with the current loot system but I will still try,


Second PvP PvP PvP needs work thats all I will say, but I do enjoy having pvp in the game.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone say the game is perfect and doesn't need changes. What I do see is that I and others get called names like shill, Ubi Employee, White Knight, etc because we don't just blindly hate this game and call people out on their BS when they go on some rant about how the game is dead or failing or will be dead in weeks or how everyone is leaving the game or how no one plays the game anymore when they don't have any actual proof and they just are here to troll and flame the forums.

The loot tables for this game are HORRENDOUS. I can't thing of a game that has worse loot tables than this game currently. I disagree that there's anything wrong with the raid. Those entitled/elitists players would be entitled/elitist no matter what. As long as you're primary weapon damage bonus (from AWD+Specific Weapon Damage) is at least +50% and your DTE is at least +70% you're probably raid ready. I'm not a great player by any means, I'd be willing to bet I'm in the bottom end of the spectrum for players, and if I can both manage those basic stats and make it through the raid, I don't see why anyone else couldn't as well. It's tough, but it's not impossible if you communicate and don't try to be a solo hero in there.

I understand that some people, for what ever reason, play this game for the PVP. Personally I absolutely HATE the PVP in this game. I think it absolutely brings out the worst in players (far worse than anything you think the raid does) and is such a divisive part of the game that the game would be far better off without it.

pob709
07-18-2019, 09:30 AM
Don't forget the false confidence that comes with anonymity ;)
Changing forum names is a good one I'm surprised no one thinks of it 😂.

D-Y-N-4-M-O
07-18-2019, 09:33 AM
I don't think I've ever seen anyone say the game is perfect and doesn't need changes. What I do see is that I and others get called names like shill, Ubi Employee, White Knight, etc because we don't just blindly hate this game and call people out on their BS when they go on some rant about how the game is dead or failing or will be dead in weeks or how everyone is leaving the game or how no one plays the game anymore when they don't have any actual proof and they just are here to troll and flame the forums.

The loot tables for this game are HORRENDOUS. I can't thing of a game that has worse loot tables than this game currently. I disagree that there's anything wrong with the raid. Those entitled/elitists players would be entitled/elitist no matter what. As long as you're primary weapon damage bonus (from AWD+Specific Weapon Damage) is at least +50% and your DTE is at least +70% you're probably raid ready. I'm not a great player by any means, I'd be willing to bet I'm in the bottom end of the spectrum for players, and if I can both manage those basic stats and make it through the raid, I don't see why anyone else couldn't as well. It's tough, but it's not impossible if you communicate and don't try to be a solo hero in there.

I understand that some people, for what ever reason, play this game for the PVP. Personally I absolutely HATE the PVP in this game. I think it absolutely brings out the worst in players (far worse than anything you think the raid does) and is such a divisive part of the game that the game would be far better off without it.

About your last paragraph.....

Iím curious as to why you think that? Do you mean DZ griefers or everything, including skirmish and domination?

Leon108
07-18-2019, 09:48 AM
Because of personal attachment.

Finland_Jami
07-18-2019, 09:55 AM
it's gets boring to read people complaing about stupid things

IIZAFFORDII
07-18-2019, 11:09 AM
Opinions are like butt holes - everyone has one.

getthefckin
07-18-2019, 11:14 AM
Changing forum names is a good one I'm surprised no one thinks of it 😂.

I keep changing mine every 30 days but I keep ****in it up. like this one I cant even change the lowercase to capitals. its ruined now fml

tcarlisle2012
07-18-2019, 12:04 PM
I think it is because they fear that the criticism will prompt changes that are detrimental to the game. Such as by nerfing key things about their build for which they have worked hard to farm. Or lower difficulty so there is no challenge anymore.

Hard..Knocks
07-18-2019, 12:32 PM
You will always get the Fan Club, plus I do believe some folks just want to appear that they're protecting the game simply for the sake of Kudos or something like that but each to they're own.




The Division 2 has its issues, but personally most of my issues aren't with the mechanics faults, my issues are the problems that exist by design.

I cant say I don't like the game, there is a feel there that I cant quite put my finger on but I do like whatever it is, and I'm grateful for some of the things the game has added through wisdom, ie troubles from The Division 1. No more ganking at C.P's is gods gift to DZ PvP players. As a Sentry player in Div 1 the uprising of Rifles in The Division 2 is another blessing I appreciate.



But some of the decisions that made it through the brainstorm stage and into the game are beyond my comprehension. Gear score of 500, great, bench crafting below this?..... The Raid, OMG, who's idea was it to not allow matchmaking? I'm sure to those that can rustle up 8 pals at the drop of a dime its sounds great and I envy the amount of fun that likely is playing it, but I keep hearing how difficult it is and how communication is key, sorry but just no, give us some credit.

This was ALWAYS going to invite elitist groups and toxicity in the game environment too I think. TBH I'm not sold on this whole Clan idea at all, the soul of it was good form but this is planet earth and whenever you allow groups of folks to raise themselves above another troubles usually follow.

With the Raid groups though, for some of the younger players its likely they have 8 friends that play Div 2, but for someone like myself this isn't so easy, to give you a rough idea I actually remember buying the original Splinter Cell for Xbox when it was released with my wages :confused: . Sure I can find 8 folks on my Ubi friends list, but not all of them speak English too great and being my only language (sorry) we struggle, also not all of them are in my time zone. Really does feel Ubi overlooked something here. But, hopefully this is soon remedied.

I have left the Div 2 for the time being, been back at Div 1 for a few weeks now, I will return once they allow matchmaking on the Raid and fix a few other "Issues" because it is overall a bloody good game, and at the very least every time I hear "FOR THE FALLEN"! I have to drop a laugh.

IIZAFFORDII
07-18-2019, 12:47 PM
You will always get the Fan Club, plus I do believe some folks just want to appear that they're protecting the game simply for the sake of Kudos or something like that but each to they're own.




The Division 2 has its issues, but personally most of my issues aren't with the mechanics faults, my issues are the problems that exist by design.

I cant say I don't like the game, there is a feel there that I cant quite put my finger on but I do like whatever it is, and I'm grateful for some of the things the game has added through wisdom, ie troubles from The Division 1. No more ganking at C.P's is gods gift to DZ PvP players. As a Sentry player in Div 1 the uprising of Rifles in The Division 2 is another blessing I appreciate.



But some of the decisions that made it through the brainstorm stage and into the game are beyond my comprehension. Gear score of 500, great, bench crafting below this?..... The Raid, OMG, who's idea was it to not allow matchmaking? I'm sure to those that can rustle up 8 pals at the drop of a dime its sounds great and I envy the amount of fun that likely is playing it, but I keep hearing how difficult it is and how communication is key, sorry but just no, give us some credit.

This was ALWAYS going to invite elitist groups and toxicity in the game environment too I think. TBH I'm not sold on this whole Clan idea at all, the soul of it was good form but this is planet earth and whenever you allow groups of folks to raise themselves above another troubles usually follow.

For some of the younger players its likely they have 8 friends that play Div 2, but for someone like myself this isn't so easy, to give you a rough idea I actually remember buying the original Splinter Cell for Xbox when it was released with my wages :confused: . Sure I can find 8 folks on my Ubi friends list, but not all of them speak English too great and being my only language (sorry) we struggle, also not all of them are in my time zone. Really does feel Ubi overlooked something here. But, hopefully this is soon remedied.

I have left the Div 2 for the time being, been back at Div 1 for a few weeks now, I will return once they allow matchmaking on the Raid and fix a few other "Issues" because it is overall a bloody good game, and at the very least every time I hear "FOR THE FALLEN"! I have to drop a laugh.

I’ve been in the same clan since day one pretty much.

We have something like 40 members and still struggle to get 8 ready for 8pm Tuesdays and Thursdays.

I’m not questioning your own or anyone else’s game ability or gear score but in response to what you said regarding the raid; minimum gear requirements can be about elitism but isn’t amongst our lot.

It came off of the back of trying it and wiping, and wiping, and wiping.

It was obvious to all our gear and/or dps was not high enough.

Having all gone away and addressed it I still get the feeling now and then not all are anywhere near where they should be… on the last boss the two man teams reveals glass cannons just as it does low dps’ers. One team fails, everyone fails.

I’m sorry to disagree with anyone who says dps is not important in attempting to do the raid but I do, strongly.

And communication is key.

I’ve seen people say things like “you don’t have to speak only listen” and again I’m sorry that is rubbish.

You don’t have to continually speak but you will be called upon to do it on the 2nd boss unless you’re very lucky and it doesn’t fall on you to get on a panel. Similarly the Buddy and Lucy fight is about balance of dps via communication. Again, doesn’t need everyone to shout it out but someone has to.
And the last boss is a mix of everything… communication, teamwork, timing, dps, and survivability.

Having said all that and on to another of the points you made; if the developers told you there will be an MM option to raid then there should be.

I don’t personally think it’s a good idea and that’s not based on elitism, it’s based on experience of the raid. Having said that, you can get lucky when you pug it and end up with guys who really know what they're doing and will mostly carry you through it. I don't know if this is classed as elitist or not but I guarantee you if that happens those guys will have sh*t hot builds and stacks of dps.

YodaMan 3D
07-18-2019, 01:26 PM
I’ve been in the same clan since day one pretty much.

We have something like 40 members and still struggle to get 8 ready for 8pm Tuesdays and Thursdays.

I’m not questioning your own or anyone else’s game ability or gear score but in response to what you said regarding the raid; minimum gear requirements can be about elitism but isn’t amongst our lot.

It came off of the back of trying it and wiping, and wiping, and wiping.

It was obvious to all our gear and/or dps was not high enough.

Having all gone away and addressed it I still get the feeling now and then not all are anywhere near where they should be… on the last boss the two man teams reveals glass cannons just as it does low dps’ers. One team fails, everyone fails.

I’m sorry to disagree with anyone who says dps is not important in attempting to do the raid but I do, strongly.

And communication is key.

I’ve seen people say things like “you don’t have to speak only listen” and again I’m sorry that is rubbish.

You don’t have to continually speak but you will be called upon to do it on the 2nd boss unless you’re very lucky and it doesn’t fall on you to get on a panel. Similarly the Buddy and Lucy fight is about balance of dps via communication. Again, doesn’t need everyone to shout it out but someone has to.
And the last boss is a mix of everything… communication, teamwork, timing, dps, and survivability.

Having said all that and on to another of the points you made; if the developers told you there will be an MM option to raid then there should be.

I don’t personally think it’s a good idea and that’s not based on elitism, it’s based on experience of the raid. Having said that, you can get lucky when you pug it and end up with guys who really know what they're doing and will mostly carry you through it. I don't know if this is classed as elitist or not but I guarantee you if that happens those guys will have sh*t hot builds and stacks of dps.

Yet Mr. Hard..Knocks is proof that MM was needed. Whether you think it is a great idea or not. Yes, he could try his local Gaming Community, Discord, or some random Clan. There are no guarantees that he complete the Raid. Your experiences may hold a lot of truth which they may need to learn. It doesn't mean that they can't learn it while using MM.

Ubi\Massive did have an ad that said there would be MM everywhere in the game, they also should know that they have a percentage of players that MM for everything, and yet decided to isolate them by not having MM.

IIZAFFORDII
07-18-2019, 01:47 PM
Yet Mr. Hard..Knocks is proof that MM was needed. Whether you think it is a great idea or not. Yes, he could try his local Gaming Community, Discord, or some random Clan. There are no guarantees that he complete the Raid. Your experiences may hold a lot of truth which they may need to learn. It doesn't mean that they can't learn it while using MM.

Ubi\Massive did have an ad that said there would be MM everywhere in the game, they also should know that they have a percentage of players that MM for everything, and yet decided to isolate them by not having MM.

I'm not sure one persons experiences is proof of anything and that goes for my own.

I've already said if the developer promised it would be there it should be so what's your point?

Neo_Intended
07-18-2019, 02:19 PM
Opinions are like butt holes - everyone has one.

Impressive insight!

;)

YodaMan 3D
07-18-2019, 02:31 PM
I'm not sure one persons experiences is proof of anything and that goes for my own.

I've already said if the developer promised it would be there it should be so what's your point?

My point is they did promise MM for the whole game, later decided everything except for the Raid. No explanation, just did it.

Cadillac-Jack
07-18-2019, 02:33 PM
Mind you as a return question

Why do people get so angry for a game they didn't create?

IIZAFFORDII
07-18-2019, 03:26 PM
My point is they did promise MM for the whole game, later decided everything except for the Raid. No explanation, just did it.

Which I agreed with.

IIZAFFORDII
07-18-2019, 03:27 PM
Impressive insight!

;)

Just catering to the audience. :D

Batarduz
07-18-2019, 03:40 PM
My point is they did promise MM for the whole game, later decided everything except for the Raid. No explanation, just did it.
I wouldn't say that we got no explanation.

https://youtu.be/rSq9j1jJXdE?t=261

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/2055383-Operation-Dark-Hours-matchmaking

YodaMan 3D
07-18-2019, 04:00 PM
I wouldn't say that we got no explanation.

https://youtu.be/rSq9j1jJXdE?t=261

https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/2055383-Operation-Dark-Hours-matchmaking

Which translates to A) we don't think those who MM, are smart enough to communicate and/or B) smart enough to figure out content. Yet if you you join a Clan or join the TD2 Discord Channel, senseless plug. They will immediately know everything and have the skills they need to complete content.

So either they have no faith in their players or they people to use their discord channel.

elkyri
07-18-2019, 04:12 PM
Why do people get so defensive for a game they didn't create?


I am trying to understand why in this modern age do people try to act like there aren't flaws in this game?

Two different questions. :)

To the first: for the same reason Ford truck owners feel a need to defend not buying a Toyota or, in converse, to bash Toyota trucks and their owners. They sorted out options, made their best choice, now they defend their choice against criticism from others. In this case, they like the game and (because of where we are) have to defend that from the onslaught of vitriol and bile being heaped on a game they like. Personally, I like the game, a lot :) but feel no need to defend my choice to anyone. You don't like it? Fine... go do something else with your life. #beadventure #outdoorlife but you won't get a fight from me. :)

What I don't understand is why people who seem to hate a game so badly A) continue to play it and/or 2) come here to gripe about it. Get over it and get on with your life! :)

To the second, False premise. Please show me one poster who acts like there are no flaws in this game and we shall put the question to him or her.


You will always get the Fan Club, plus I do believe some folks just want to appear that they're protecting the game simply for the sake of Kudos or something like that .....

LOL... a serious belly laugh! :)

You get a ton more kudos from this community for bashing the game than you will for any praise of the game. Posting any praise of the game at all gets one branded as a shill, troll, paid employee, etc. Hell, even asking a simple question looking for some positive suggestions for improvement got me branded as a troll. You want kudos from this community you have to jump on the hate train and shovel coal.

As for posting praise in an effort to get kudos from the mods, what purpose would that serve?


I'm not sure one persons experiences is proof of anything and that goes for my own.

Amen!

Cadillac-Jack
07-18-2019, 04:23 PM
You get a ton more kudos from this community for bashing the game than you will for any praise of the game. Posting any praise of the game at all gets one branded as a shill, troll, paid employee, etc. Hell, even asking a simple question looking for some positive suggestions for improvement got me branded as a troll. You want kudos from this community you have to jump on the hate train and shovel coal.


Yep I can adhere to these things.

II remember sticking up for the weapon mod system with it's negatives and positives, infact It wasn't hard to mod a weapon with them and almost negate the negatives out of your set up,(I even put up examples on how easy it was) but would the pitch fork crew listen nope they were hell bent on getting them removed and anyone that stood in the way were fair game for the hate train.

I had questions asked of me in here (are you paid to say you like the mods), or you are a shill or paid shill, do you work for Ubi you sound like you do. (all over liking the pre-mod change before it was changed)

PS: they got their way and it was all changed and in my view for the worse, because now it's a simpleton mod system with no thought.

DarkKnight27us
07-18-2019, 04:40 PM
About your last paragraph.....

Iím curious as to why you think that? Do you mean DZ griefers or everything, including skirmish and domination?

I'm specifically referring to the gankers and griefers in the DZ. Modes like Skirmish and Domination in Conflict are mostly fine (it would be better without the exploits). But the DZ and the behaviors it brings out in people is absolutely abysmal. It literally creates a situation where for one person to have fun someone else doesn't get to have fun. It's one of the reasons I'm very much in the camp of "create a rotating PVE DZ for those of us that don't want to be fodder for the gankers and greifers".

Ground-Hugg2018
07-18-2019, 04:42 PM
5 of us randoms got nearly all the way through the raid. Now we didn't start out intending to do the raid. We had picked up randoms while doing challenging and heroic missions. So when we got done we all decided we would try it for a lark. Since we only had 4 players we had another random join us for the raid. We got wiped twice at the start once we got a feel for it we had no problem after that until the end. My point is MM can work in the raids. The problem massive does not want randoms competing it with in game MM who are not geared the way they insist we need to be.

DarkKnight27us
07-18-2019, 04:53 PM
Which translates to A) we don't think those who MM, are smart enough to communicate and/or B) smart enough to figure out content. Yet if you you join a Clan or join the TD2 Discord Channel, senseless plug. They will immediately know everything and have the skills they need to complete content.

So either they have no faith in their players or they people to use their discord channel.

Again, dude, you need to quit projecting your opinions on others. You are the ONLY person I've ever seen call the people who want MM in the raid "stupid" or "not smart enough". You really need to meet more people in this game if that's what you think of them. Also, if you keep calling players stupid you're going to catch the eye of the moderators and get a ban.

YodaMan 3D
07-18-2019, 04:56 PM
Have you ever heard the old saying, "You can see your glass as half empty or see it half full." The you take into consideration your view can be affected by other variables. To a person who is extremely thirsty and dehydrated, well half empty glass isn't going to cut it, even though they should be thankful to get it. Now to a person who doesn't have a thirsty and is completely hydrated, well a glass that is half full is a waste, they have no interest in drinking it.

Some players have issues with the game and when they come in here, they get beat down for hating on the game and told, suck it up. The game is perfect in everyway. How dare you make suggestions.

Guess what, the reverse happens to. Player comes in, maybe being legit, then again could just be trolling and says, "Wow what a perfect game, it plays great, it has no issues. I love it."

Most have stopped being opened minded, they stopped trying to be helpful. Almost every thread posted. will be responded to with polar opposite response and that usually derails the whole conversation.

Uredfghjkl
07-18-2019, 04:59 PM
You get a ton more kudos from this community for bashing the game than you will for any praise of the game. Posting any praise of the game at all gets one branded as a shill, troll, paid employee, etc.

Well, as soon as I expressed criticism of my experience with the game, I was immediately accused of "having an agenda", as if I was apart of some conspiracy or mysterious plot to sabotage the reception of the game, and I have seen others who have been arrogantly dismissed or borderline bullied for conveying their disagreements and issues. It's occurred both ways.

Obviously, there are those who criticise and defend the game for unfair or unjustifiable reasons, and there is always the subjective element which comes into play with any video game - one person's conception of an ideal game may be another's nightmare.

But I believe that most people who post here are sincerely communicating what they believe - good, bad or ugly - based on their own experience of the game.

Dyslexic-Snail
07-18-2019, 08:01 PM
I think there is a lot to it.

1) On forums all we have to go on is straight lines of text with no tones to hear, no emotions and no body language to read.
2) I think a lot of people come on here in anger literally just 2 minutes after failing to complete something in the game and type out a rant.
3) There will always be somebody to defend something, be it games, beliefs, ideas, etc etc.
4) If someone is having fun and the realise a few constructive ideas might change how the game is they'll try to defed it to keep it as it is. They might have good builds, no disconnects etc etc.
5) Some people are oblivious and just happy to be able to ply the game and are capable of ignoring the problems the game has. So they defend it.
6) Some people play less and don't experience as many bugs or errors as someone who plays three times as much as themselves.
7) Some people may be fed up of all the bad/whiny posts and decide they've had enough and want to defend the game, sometimes just to play devils advocate other times they may think the game needs defending.

Uhnomuhlee
07-18-2019, 08:39 PM
...snip....Most have stopped being opened minded, they stopped trying to be helpful. Almost every thread posted. will be responded to with polar opposite response and that usually derails the whole conversation.

I would agree with that for the most part.

I think it's because the forum is flooded with uploaders alts trying to create a narrative.

Uhnomuhlee
07-18-2019, 08:44 PM
...snip....
7) Some people may be fed up of all the bad/whiny posts and decide they've had enough and want to defend the game, sometimes just to play devils advocate other times they may think the game needs defending.

This is a really good post. 7 happened to me. If anyone were so inclined they'd see my account was started when all of the, "These mods are shills and people at Massive should be fired!!" topics were running rampant.

It wasn't so much about the game for me. I just wanted to troll trolls. Kind of surprised my account has lasted this long. It's been a good time though. I've met some great people. There are some really stand up genuine people in this community if you're willing to sift through all the nonsense. And things have really calmed down past few weeks. Maybe this account will last a little while longer lol.

D-Y-N-4-M-O
07-18-2019, 09:20 PM
I'm specifically referring to the gankers and griefers in the DZ. Modes like Skirmish and Domination in Conflict are mostly fine (it would be better without the exploits). But the DZ and the behaviors it brings out in people is absolutely abysmal. It literally creates a situation where for one person to have fun someone else doesn't get to have fun. It's one of the reasons I'm very much in the camp of "create a rotating PVE DZ for those of us that don't want to be fodder for the gankers and greifers".

I rooted for you guys in the D1 for a PvP-DZ or a better LZ. I fully understood the huge demand. Those threads would stay at the top of the first page on the discussion boards for months and have more hits than Pewdiepie. A game mode I'd never play.

As mostly a PvP player that just plays conflict now in TD2, it would be nice to have the same understanding from some PvE players about other players prefered styles. (BTW, I am not aiming that at you by any means whatsoever).

We are a community. We need to understand each others preferences, whats best for the game as a whole, and do as much as we can to improve the game (constructively) and try to stop the playerbase from hemorrhaging because we all suffer in the end, no matter how we like to play a game in our free time.

Dyslexic-Snail
07-18-2019, 09:28 PM
This is a really good post. 7 happened to me. If anyone were so inclined they'd see my account was started when all of the, "These mods are shills and people at Massive should be fired!!" topics were running rampant.

It wasn't so much about the game for me. I just wanted to troll trolls. Kind of surprised my account has lasted this long. It's been a good time though. I've met some great people. There are some really stand up genuine people in this community if you're willing to sift through all the nonsense. And things have really calmed down past few weeks. Maybe this account will last a little while longer lol.

I did wonder why you spelt your username the way you have. It makes more sense now. Lol