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View Full Version : The real Finnish Air force in the war years...



XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 07:03 AM
I was reading some articles online detailing the size of the Finnish air force including the actual types and number of planes in service. I found the results a little surprising after playing through some of the FB Finnish campaign... It turns out that Finland had no more than 100 planes TOTAL at its peak (as opposed to the 1,600 VVS planes that saw service on the Finnish front).

This lead me to wonder how realistic it is that you (or your wingmen) get brand new brewsters every time you crash. Especially when you consider that Finland had no production of new planes- all were donated. In fact, only 33 Brewsters ever actually made it from the US to Finland durring the entire war (out of a shipment that was supposed to be 100). So, if a Brewster goes down, there's nothing to replace it... Except in FB which does get more replacement planes?

I also wonder how seriouse the Finnish air force could be considering its tiny size. 100 was the TOTAL number of planes, and even then I doubt all of those were in active service at once, and attrition would probably cut that total down pretty quickly... I'm just wondring how the airforce remained as a coherent enetity (or if it did)? Did they use captured Russian planes at all? I know the Finnish tank brigades consisted entirely of commandeered Russian Tanks. Was the same done for the airforce to compesate for a complete lack of production?

I guess I'm asking if there actually was any seriouse air war over Finland that would be remotely like the Finnish campaign in the game... Because right now I just don't see them having the number of aircraft to aproach anything like the campaign... But I'm not complaining; I'd just assume be able to play it at the cost of a little historical inacuracy... I was surprised that this intense and utterly forgotten conflict found any home in a computer game at all.

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 07:03 AM
I was reading some articles online detailing the size of the Finnish air force including the actual types and number of planes in service. I found the results a little surprising after playing through some of the FB Finnish campaign... It turns out that Finland had no more than 100 planes TOTAL at its peak (as opposed to the 1,600 VVS planes that saw service on the Finnish front).

This lead me to wonder how realistic it is that you (or your wingmen) get brand new brewsters every time you crash. Especially when you consider that Finland had no production of new planes- all were donated. In fact, only 33 Brewsters ever actually made it from the US to Finland durring the entire war (out of a shipment that was supposed to be 100). So, if a Brewster goes down, there's nothing to replace it... Except in FB which does get more replacement planes?

I also wonder how seriouse the Finnish air force could be considering its tiny size. 100 was the TOTAL number of planes, and even then I doubt all of those were in active service at once, and attrition would probably cut that total down pretty quickly... I'm just wondring how the airforce remained as a coherent enetity (or if it did)? Did they use captured Russian planes at all? I know the Finnish tank brigades consisted entirely of commandeered Russian Tanks. Was the same done for the airforce to compesate for a complete lack of production?

I guess I'm asking if there actually was any seriouse air war over Finland that would be remotely like the Finnish campaign in the game... Because right now I just don't see them having the number of aircraft to aproach anything like the campaign... But I'm not complaining; I'd just assume be able to play it at the cost of a little historical inacuracy... I was surprised that this intense and utterly forgotten conflict found any home in a computer game at all.

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 07:19 AM
Canada had more than a 100 planes. We had 44 squadrons. Funney thing is Canada dosn't exist in FB.

I bet theres proubley some forgotten battles that cdn sqd were in. lol

Dose Oleg know there is a Canada? If so what dose he know?

No im not picking on Oleg, im just ranting as usual.

And im Board.

nt all.

Silent out...

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 08:22 AM
to Moose maybe you want to check this out
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 08:30 AM
VF_310thSilent wrote:
- Dose Oleg know there is a Canada? If so what dose
- he know?
-

What is this medicine you want Oleg to take?

I'd never join a club that would have ME as a member!!.

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 08:44 AM
I dont know where you get your figures. Dont believe everything you see online. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif For example in 25.6 1943 Finns had:

In squadrons / In factory or depot
Fighters 153 / 73
Bombers 64 / 20
Recon 39 / 14
Total 256 / 98

And in 1.9.1944 Situation with fighters was 182/95. Amount of fighters had increased! However it should be noted that Finns had about 100 fighters able to fight over frontline. Rest were obsolete.

And there were 44 Brewsters, not 33.

Finns had little use of captured russian planes; fighters were used in recon-duty but bombers were used in actual bombings.

There was hard fighting over Finnish fronts mostlty during summer '41, Over Kotka and Finnish gulf during '43 and in summer '44. Finns lost 366 planes total in airfights and accidents during Continuation war '41-44 and claimed 1598 confirmed kills in air. I'd say that is quite serious air battle. Not Battle of Britain or Defence of Reich but serious nevertheless.

As for production; Finns produced Blenheims, Fokkers, and Myrskys during the war. However not many; about 30 Myrskys's, 50 Fokkers but I'm not sure about Blenheims. 10-20 I'd guess.

In fact the losses were so low that FAF could keep up with Russians by concentrating its best forces where needed.

Source "Suomen ilmavoimien h√¬§vitt√¬§j√¬§hankinnat 19189-1945, Atso Haapanen"

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 09:25 AM
Hmm, interesting... I hadn't realized that Finland had its own aircraft production facilities... Those were sufficient to cover their losses? Or were more still being donated / shipped in from elsewhere (which would be less likely as Finland was technically an Axis power)?

And yes my figures could quite well be wrong, it was just on the basis of one internet stat site I came across...

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 09:41 AM
Actually Finland bought captured French and Soviet planes from Germany.
There were plans that Finland should start building Mosquitos (wooden planes and we have a lots of materials to build wooden things...)
Germany had copied and made drawings for Mossie and Finland bought them, but war ended too soon (luckily).
The first Finn-build mossies should have been flyable in 1946. No idea what motor they should have been using !

I think Finland build about 50 Blenheims..maybe more..just don't remember right figures...

Over half of shot down finnish fighters were repaired and brought back in line.

As for canadian airforces... I think they didn't exist in eastern front, and this Flightsim is from eastern front /i/smilies/16x16_woman-happy.gif

Cheers /i/smilies/16x16_woman-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 09:44 AM
Moose, you were propably reading about the winterwar, the earlier Finnish-Russian conflict (1939) when the main fighter in the Finnish airforce was the Fokker DXXI and they didnt have many planes at all. The campaign in FB covers the Continuation war.

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 03:18 PM
- What is this medicine you want Oleg to take?
-
- I'd never join a club that would have ME as a
- member!!.


I am soory if I offended you. I have asked this question in difforent way's before and have never received a an answer to my question.

For example, when you choose a country online there is no Canada. There are many other countries to choose from.

Thanks for the reply.

Silent out..

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 05:56 PM
This is what you get when you start to talk about Finns in WW2 /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

some cool sites

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/finland2.htm ( WORLD WAR II Finland)


http://www.jiop.fi/ksimuseo/index.html (Finnish Air Force Museum )

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/hjcurtis/milhist.html (airforces not US & UK) Canada,italy ,etc....


-It is also significant that no bombers in the formations escorted by the Messerschmitts were lost to enemy fighters during this period -

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 06:04 PM
http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/war.html



http://www.jw-design.net/SIGGINEW.jpg


The world will change when you are ready to pronounce this oath:
I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man,
nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine.

Miss A. R.

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 06:33 PM
VF_310thSilent wrote:
-- -
-
- For example, when you choose a country online
- there is no Canada. There are many other countries
- to choose from.
-
-
-
I thought the Candians usually flew for the RAF of at least in RAf markings?

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 09:37 PM
I thought the Candians usually flew for the RAF of
- at least in RAf markings?
-


Your right they usually did. They flew with the Us and Astrailains to. I beleave most of the planes the CDN sqds flew were lend lease.
I think, im not 100% shure but a few did fly on there whon. Im also trying to find out if a few CDN sqds flew planes with Canadian markings. So far know luck. I just don't where to look for this info. I have been to a veiw sights but ill keep serching.
Any one know if we canadains had are whon planes with Candain markings? Id realy like to know.

Thanks.

Shane.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 01:08 AM
Here is a link to some possible sources for you:

http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/canadians.html

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 02:55 AM
I just an email from the Webmaster at RCAF.com.


During World War II British (RAF), Canadian (RCAF), Australian (RAAF) and New Zealand (RNZAF) all aircraft markings were the same.

Cheers,
Bob

Well the search is over. It would have been cool if they had there own markings.
That was nice link il take another look at again.

Thanks.

Shane.

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 05:27 AM
neither did the americans... but they have to be in every flight sim or they will bomb you.
lou69


THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WON WITHOUT THE CANADIANS

XyZspineZyX
08-02-2003, 05:35 AM
Just create yourself a regiments file with the RCAF call codes for the desired squadron.



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