PDA

View Full Version : Pearl Harbor Ship



Corsair29f4u
08-11-2006, 03:20 PM
So, I just pick this sim up, and was appalled at the Brit BB's in the harbor.
Is there a fix for this ?

VW-IceFire
08-11-2006, 04:10 PM
Nope. They ran into some problems (not technical) that prevented them from going all out on some of the other ships. That and time...it would take ages to model everything.

Its not a perfect sim...but the flying is pretty good.

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-11-2006, 06:06 PM
and they're still tough as h3ll to sink.

leitmotiv
08-13-2006, 04:24 AM
There is no excuse for the ridiculousness of the air/ship component of PAC FIGHTERS, none at all, Corsair29f4u. They would have been better advised to have stuck to the land-based Pacific air war than to have done such a puerile treatment of ships. If they wanted to get some ships in the sim, they could have simply done the attack on PRINCE OF WALES and REPULSE, and, mercifully, skipped Pearl Harbor completely. They could have had the Dauntless attack on, say, AKAGI and KAGA, with their real escorts, and skipped the rest. Most of all---high-quality ship modeling should have been done with ships going top speed and maneuvering. The operative word for ships in PAC FIGHTERS is perfunctory or "toy." Maddox knows how to deliver on online fighter battles. That is his specialty, and that's what his audience wants.

JG53Frankyboy
08-13-2006, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
and they're still tough as h3ll to sink.

if you have a merged version, use the soviet Marat - its much easier to sink than the other two Battleship models in game (PoW and Tirpitz).
it need much less bombweight/torpedoes........

Chuck_Older
08-13-2006, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by Corsair29f4u:
So, I just pick this sim up, and was appalled at the Brit BB's in the harbor.
Is there a fix for this ?

If the Brit BBs appaled you, then Pearl itself must have really stuck in your craw. I made my own Pearl Harbor, but if any AA starts, my PC commits suicide

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/p3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/p2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/p5.jpg

Tater-SW-
08-13-2006, 09:54 AM
Even with no AAA, the apparently modelled Pearl harbor without the benefit of a picture. I guess when PF was being done "google" didn't exist, I can find a number of pictures taken days before the attack that clearly show everything in a couple searches.

I guess the map maker for Hawaii just didn't care.

Of course, minus the proper ships, even starting the Hawaii map was idiotic, particularly since having AAA on and actual historical numbers of planes flying is virtually impossible.

tater

PS--there was a time when you might be able to argue they did what they could with the map making stuff they had. Then we have seen what maps look like done by people who know what they are doing (<S> Ian, jurinko, et al). Obviously the PF mapmakers lack any skill at all, or didn't care (probably the latter).

Tater-SW-
08-13-2006, 10:00 AM
Chuck, what is that pier in battleship row?

http://www.geocities.com/pentagon/3758/pearl4.jpg

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h54000/h54301.jpg

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g270000/g279385.jpg
(taken 10 november, 1941)


tater

stansdds
08-13-2006, 10:31 AM
When it comes to WW II combat flight sims, the Pacific seems to be treated as the bastard child. Pacific Fighters has a lot of good points, but is basically unfinished. Maps are missing or incorrect, aircraft are missing or incorrect, ships are missing. It reaks of being cobbled together and shoved onto the market. But, at this time, there is nothing better.

Chuck_Older
08-13-2006, 10:32 AM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Chuck, what is that pier in battleship row?


tater

that's my version of Gasoline Wharf. You can see it in the direct overhead shot in the pics you posted. Mine looks huge because our Ford Island is about 33% too small and shaped wrong. I had to cram some stuff in the wrong places on my Pearl harbor, obviously

I agree, there was something lacking when they made a lot of maps for the sim...I think it's time, mostly. If you look, you can find trees and even houses in the middle of roads. There probably just wasn't enough time budgeted for some of the work...Pearl in particular is just plain odd. I had placed things a lot differently at one time on my map, but it looked odd to me so I just placed the principal things where they should be and filled in the blanks. I mean, my Peal is not accurate to minute detail in many way, but the Pearl Harbor map that shipped with the sim is the barest minimum...I particularly loathe the way the "stock" piers look...as if this where a fishing village instead of the home of the Pacific Fleet and a major USN base

I'm sure lots of love and TLC went into the map in general but somehow the specifics suffered greatly

goshikisen
08-13-2006, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Corsair29f4u:
So, I just pick this sim up, and was appalled at the Brit BB's in the harbor.
Is there a fix for this ?

As others have said... unfortunately no. A preliminary list of possible objects for PF included many more ships than what we now have. I guess they started off with good intentions but soon realized they bit off more than they could chew.

Tater-SW-
08-13-2006, 02:32 PM
I'd shorten the gasoline wharf considerably and make it smaller since it's barely more than a BB beam width away from land in that shot.

tater

Chuck_Older
08-13-2006, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
I'd shorten the gasoline wharf considerably and make it smaller since it's barely more than a BB beam width away from land in that shot.

tater

Well I generally agree, (it's a bit further away that a beam though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) but there's two main problems:

1) Pearl is much too small in our map. Check out the size of the lochs; they are tiny. Ford island is too small by about a third, and the whole anchorage is too small by at least that much and maybe more- the gap between Ford and the docks is too narrow to begin with before I start. The map is so small you can't even make a ship navigate it's way from the Pacific to inside the anchorage

2) there's a technical issue with the objects used to make the peirs- I can't make them more narrow than they are now, as the end 'caps' for the 'cross' of the 'T' that I have used are the shortest ones possible already- if I make the pier smaller, it must also be more narrow, and that means having objects spilling out past the edges of the wharf, inexplicably


Lots of compromises need to be made for almost any map made in the FMB unfortunately. 100% accuracy and sometimes 90% accuracy for this sort of thing is sadly not attainable. Better to have a feature like gasoline wharf a prominent feature that looks true to itself if I can't make it true to life, than to omit it entirely to my mind. I couldn't even make the dredges http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif I'm not even 100% sure just what the objects I and other mission builders have been using for the piers really are; they are some sort of walkway with a railing on the side, but they are angled, too. The objects apparently intended for dock and peir making are so small it's ridiculous

VW-IceFire
08-13-2006, 08:05 PM
A long time ago people were complaining about the Stalingrad map having a lake that didn't exist in WWII but does now.

No map is perfect...everything is a representation of what happened. Not what actually happened. It could have been done better and I totally understand what everyone is saying. But lets not harp on it.

Eagle1_Division
08-14-2006, 08:30 PM
Hey, chuck older, could u make it so we can download that pearl harbor?

VF2_Sarge
08-14-2006, 11:00 PM
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1088/per9xf5.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/4913/per5sw5.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/6647/per2xl7.jpg

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7337/per1my5.jpg

> Pearl Harbor On Sunday, December 7th, 1941 the Japanese launched a surprise attack against the U.S. Forces stationed at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii . By planning his attack on a Sunday, the Japanese commander Admiral Nagumo, hoped to catch the entire fleet in port. As luck would have it, the Aircraft Carriers and one of the Battleships were not in port. (The USS Enterprise was returning from Wake ZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial" Island , where it had just deliv ered some aircraft. The USS Lexingtonwas ferrying aircraft to Midway, and the USS Saratoga and USS Colorado were undergoing repairs in the United States). In spite of the latest intelligence reports about the missing aircraft carriers (his most important targets), Admiral Nagumo decided to continue the attack with his force of six carriers and 423 aircraft. At a range of 230 miles north of Oahu , he launched the first wave of a two-wave attack. Beginning at 0600 hours his first wave consisted of 183 fighters and torpedo bombers which struck at the fleet in Pearl HarborLY: Arial" and the airfields in Hickam, Kaneohe and Ewa. The second strike, launched at 0715 hours, consisted of 167 aircraft, which again struck at the same targets. At 0753 hours the first wave consisting of 40 Nakajima B5N2 "Kate" torpedo bombers, 51 Aichi D3A1 "Val" dive bombers, 50 high altit ude bombers and 43 Zeros struck airfields and Pearl Harbor Within the next hour, the second wave arrived and continued the attack. When it was over, the U.S.losses were:
Casualties
USA : 218 KIA, 364 WIA.
USN: 2,008 KIA, 710 WIA.
USMC: 109 KIA, 69 WIA.
Civilians: 68 KIA, 35 WIA.
TOTAL: 2,403 KIA, 1,178 WIA.
Battleships
USS Arizona (BB-39) - total loss when a bomb it her magazine.
USS Oklahoma (BB-37) - Total loss when she capsized and sunk in the harbor.
USS California (BB-44) - Sunk at her berth. Later raised and repaired.
USS West Virginia (BB-48) - Sunk at her berth. Later raised and repaired.
USS Nevada - (BB-36) Beached to prevent sinking. Later repaired.
USS Penns ylvania (BB-38) - Light damage.
USS Maryland (BB-46) - Light damage.
USS Tennessee (BB-43) Light damage.
USS Utah (AG-16) - (former battleship used as a target) - Sunk.
Cruisers
USS New Orleans (CA-32) - Light Damage..
USS San Francisco (CA-38) - Light Damage.
USS Detroit (CL-8) - Light Damage.
USS Raleigh (CL-7) - Heavily damaged but repaired.
USS Helena (CL-50) - Light Damage.
USS Honolulu (CL-48) - Light Damage..
Destroyers
USS Downes (DD-375) - Destroyed. Parts salvaged.
USS Cassin - (DD-372) Destroyed. Parts salvaged.
USS Shaw (DD-373) - Very heavy damage.
USS Helm (DD-388) - Light Damage.
Minelayer
USS Ogala (CM-4) - Sunk but later raised and repaired.
Seaplane Tender
USS Curtiss (AV-4) - Severely damaged but later repaired.
Repair Ship
USS Vestal (AR-4) - Severely damaged but later repaired.
Harbor Tug
USS Sotoyomo (YT-9) - Sunk but later raised and repaired.
Aircraft
188 Aircraft destroyed (92 USN and 92 U.S. Army Air Corps.)

Just a bit off topic, but just a reminder why we should "Never Forget."

Ambaryerno
08-15-2006, 11:55 PM
The last good Pacific sim was 1942: The Pacific Air War. The best was, is and always will be Aces of the Pacific.

I say we start writing nasty letters to Vivendi-Universal and threaten to make stew out of their pet rabbits unless they bring back Sierra-Dynamix so we can have Aces of the Pacific II.

zoinks_
08-16-2006, 05:44 AM
i had fun messing with pearl.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/wip.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/ph2.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/ph1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/wip2.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/ph4.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/ph3.jpg

construction halted at hospital point. slight hit on fps.

ruxtmp
08-16-2006, 06:00 AM
Chuck would it be possible to get a copy of your Pearl Harbor FMB file?

siewert1
08-16-2006, 09:55 AM
~S~ GENTS
I am of the same opinion as the rest of the boys ,OUTSTANDING WORK SIMPLY OUTSTANDING ,give yourself a raise $$$$$ ,Chuck_Older is there anyway that you could make this available to the masses if not would you consider e-mailing it to me at glsiewert@shaw.ca ~S~ and THX

Chuck_Older
08-16-2006, 03:46 PM
Wow I didn't think that map would get so much demand. I'm very flattered.

That map will be available sometime...soon, I don't know when. It's actually used in the very first mission of my upcoming Flying Tigers campaign update, you are a Marine pilot who ferries a Wildcat to Ford Island so your official resignation from the USMC can be filed with the Navy, which allows you to sign up for a tour with the American Volunteer Group in China and Burma

However, as the campaign will require the merged version of the sim, I'll get the map someplace for download if you use PF as a stand-alonehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nimits
08-18-2006, 01:28 PM
if you have a merged version, use the soviet Marat - its much easier to sink than the other two Battleship models in game (PoW and Tirpitz).
it need much less bombweight/torpedoes........


Actually, I have often toyed with using the Indianpolis CA in place of the US BBs at Pearl. Though only about 2/3 as wide, the Indianpolis is as long or longer than most of the Standard Battleships at Pearl, possess a similar AAA armament, uses the 3-gun turrett common on most USN BBs, and even has a psuedo tripod most behind the number 2 turret. The only problem then is that there is no visual difference between the BBs on battleship row and the CAs scattared throught the anchorage.

BTW, Chuck Older and zoinks, I might be interested in using some of the Ford Island, etc. buildings to flesh out the Pearl area in True Pacific.

Chuck_Older
08-18-2006, 04:45 PM
Nimits-

my Pearl kicks the shht out of my FPS when the shooting starts http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif too much stuff in too small a place. Plus it's not 100%b accurate; I got creative with a few things because I like populating airbases and such

You're welcome to use it if you like, or parts of it. PM me with your e-mail addy

I'm still going to get it to M4T or somesuch though, as well

zoinks_
08-18-2006, 09:39 PM
to Nimits and everyone,
feel free to copy, steal, laugh, or ridicule. i haven't opened up the fmb in ages and haven't had this sim installed in a while, so i can't check what i'm offering...but it should contain what's in the screenshots.

my goal wasn't combat, but learning the fmb. then it turned into a project to make a living, breathing Pearl. ships sailing in and out of port, pby landings, air and road traffic, dozens of landing craft as ferries, etc. even ambitious plans to have a carrier sail outside the harbor and practice dive bombing some target. then i just had fun trying to hide the airstrip and recreate the corner on ford island.

this should just be the docks and piers:
docks (http://home.comcast.net/%7Egscrip/docks_bk.mis)
this should be where i stopped. using test runways was probably not a good idea.
Pearl Harbor (http://home.comcast.net/%7Egscrip/Pearl_Harbor_template.mis)

Col._King
08-18-2006, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by zoinks_:
i had fun messing with pearl.
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/wip.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/ph2.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/ph1.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/wip2.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/ph4.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e170/zoinks_/ph3.jpg

construction halted at hospital point. slight hit on fps.

Zoinks, please if you dont mind, can you send me that sweet Pearl Harbor? Looks really great so far.

Thank you in advance.

zoinks_
08-18-2006, 10:58 PM
Col._King,
in the post above yours i posted a link to the mission file. are the links not working?

Col._King
08-18-2006, 11:09 PM
Actually it gives me access to a huge text with parameters about objects and so on.
But How it works? Where I have to copy/paste this text?

Maybe I'm too **** for all that? Normally I can use the FMB, but how it converts the objects I can found in the FMB to such a text file? This is normal procedure. But how to do the text files to converts in a viewable map in the FMB ?

zoinks_
08-18-2006, 11:31 PM
you could try this:

- go into fmb. load hawaii map and save as Pearl_Harbor_template. this creates 2 files - Pearl_Harbor_template.mis and Pearl_Harbor_template.properties.

- replace Pearl_Harbor_template.mis with mine(right click, save link as) or copy and paste all text from mine and use notepad to edit the file.

hope that made sense.

EDIT: here's the 2 files:
Pearl_Harbor_template.mis (http://home.comcast.net/%7Egscrip/Pearl_Harbor_template.mis)
Pearl_Harbor_template.properties (http://home.comcast.net/%7Egscrip/Pearl_Harbor_template.properties)
right click, save link as - i don't remember the il2 folder structure to tell you where to put them.(where's the Video Professor when you need him?)

Col._King
08-19-2006, 07:43 AM
Thank you! Now I've seen the Light!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Eagle1_Division
08-19-2006, 08:54 PM
Ive made my own pearl harbor and heres a suggestion: use mirat rus. battleships. They're easy to sink(comparitively), they look like the out-dated ships at pearl harbor, and they dont have as much AA. BTW Col._King, how did u get the nice flat ground at the bottom-right of that first picture?

Eagle1_Division
08-19-2006, 08:58 PM
sry as u can c im a noob at these forums and can't find the edit button(didn't really try).
but how do u get pics on here? ive never been able to find out, it always shows a non-working icon.

Col._King
08-19-2006, 09:26 PM
For the images, I'm using ImageShack. It is a great place to store your images, it is free, and very simple to use.

Corsair29f4u
08-21-2006, 10:06 AM
Thanks for the responses. Chuck_Older, those are great PH renderings. This ship thing is very baffling, IF part of the game is to attack items on the ground/sea shouldn't you put AS much effort in to this area?

So I got the latest " Computer Gamer" mag ( September) and there was a two page article ( pg 36-37) on a new game called " Battlestations: Midway". If you look at the screen shots, there low and behold is a King George V taking on the IJN Fuso next to some tall islands!!!! They said MIDWAY right ? A google or two show the KGV in the Atlantic - damaged after an collision and the Fuso up in the Aleutians. I'm not expecting prefect game ...but come on !!!!!

And to quote the article " And a great amount of detail went into crafting each ship".

Maybe they should of spent a bit more time of the right ships.....

zoinks_
08-21-2006, 07:08 PM
that Battlestations: Midway was due in fall 2005. saw screenshots from that one almost 2 years ago. and they finally updated their site. looks arcade. maybe some hope as a strategy game.
http://www.battlestations.net/

then there's Pacific Storm.
http://www.pacific-storm.net/

and i just saw a pto flight sim a couple days ago with a release date for later this year or next year. didn't bookmark anything as it was "designed for the casual gamer". can't remember the name and its driving me crazeeeee.

Enforcer572005
08-22-2006, 09:17 AM
OMG! Zoinks even has the blasted tennis courts in his. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif