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Halvtand
06-22-2019, 04:19 PM
Following the release of this game people would tune in every week to the dev stream, or “Warrior’s Den” as it is called. Many still remember the days when watching the stream meant you got first-hand info on upcoming changes, behind-the-scenes stuff and new content. Year three, content is slow. We no longer get new stuff every week and even upcoming changes have slowed to maybe one or at most two bigger patches per season with some minor bug fixes and things like that squeezed in where appropriate.
We’ve seen many things come and go to fill time during the Dens; poorly translated French candy puns, creators playing the game, map walkthroughs and community creative content taking up more and more time to name a few.
Lately, specific creators have been invited to talk about their involvement in the game and how they got there. This is a great addition to the WD-formula – if you’re interested in becoming a game dev. I won’t put these wonderful people down, we all owe them thanks for working on the game that draws us all here, but I doubt that their message will have much impact on most of the audience. This thread will list some suggestions from me, and hopefully from other forumites as well, that could fill time during the weekly streams and that I think would interest more players.

Hero deep dive – In this segment you bring in the creative director or some member of the team that were deeply involved in the development and creation of this week’s hero. This person will then be given some time to talk about the work of going from weapon (which is what we’ve been given as the starting point for heroes) to finished hero. Everything from selecting weapon to how they look, how they fight, their backstory, their inspiration (in real life or fiction). Struggles during development (the hero could’ve ended up differently). Stuff like that. If the hero is announced on week before the community could ask questions to add some community involvement.

Map deep dive – Pretty much the same thing as with the hero. Instead of a walkthrough, talk about the inspiration of a certain map, why are things placed as they are, where did you find the architecture, is there a story behind things on the map, what was thrown away, easter eggs, overlaps between factions? Again, you could announce this one week early and get questions from the community.

Gear deep dive – Similar to the previous, but with less to work with. Much of the gear have already been talked about before their release, but there are still pieces of gear that can be talked about.

Class deep dive – Yup, another one about talking about what goes into the game. This one about the classes in the game – assassin, vanguard, heavy and hybrid. What are these different classes to the devs, what are the devs looking for when creating a new one, what are the classes “thing” in-game, what is the deal with hybrids, what is the difference between a heavy/assassin hybrid and a vanguard. Stuff like that. Again, announce it a week early and get questions.

Mechanic deep dive – Another deep dive. Bring in a dev from the fight team and talk about one of the mechanics in the game such as: Stagger lvls of attacks and what they do, Iframes on dodge, dodge attacks, hitboxes and hitbox porn, reach, tracking, option selects, stamina costs etc.

Strategy corner – Bring in someone from the fight team or invite a known streamer or other “pro” and have them talk strategy. Be it how to get max points in Dominion, how to score kills with a particular hero, gank tactics, anti gank tactics, synergies (feats, abilities, perks, characters) where to stand, how to mind trick… All of that.

Show your work – Have a dev come in and show what they’re working on right now as a teaser and talk about how development of that thing works. This could be anything from mo-capping new moves to writing to rebalance to fixing graphical glitches… The sky’s the limit. It can work really well with the current “meet a dev”-segment, but will focus on what it is they’re doing right now and will add some transparency so we gamers get to feel like we gain an understanding of the game we play and not that the devs are trying to hide stuff.

Community questions – The community loves this stuff and it could easily become a regular feature. There is apparently a mega thread on Reddit, something similar could be done on the official forum as well. Just pick a few questions and answer them. It’s as close you can get to free content.

Help me fill out this list and make the Warrior’s Den great again!

Halvtand
06-27-2019, 08:21 PM
We just had a Warrior's Den pass by with the only content being a handful of minor tweaks and fixes. If only there was some kind of content that would not only fill the time of these streams, but maybe even draw a crowd.

Knight_Raime
06-27-2019, 09:46 PM
The fact that we haven't had a consistent recap every week across both here and reddit actually makes a pretty powerful statement. One can only hope the developers are acknowledging the statement.

Col.Bullet
06-27-2019, 10:41 PM
The fact that we haven't had a consistent recap every week across both here and reddit actually makes a pretty powerful statement. One can only hope the developers are acknowledging the statement.
But do they really need years to come to this realization? Shouldn't we expect better?

Hormly
06-27-2019, 11:03 PM
Games gotta slow down eventually

Halvtand
06-28-2019, 12:07 AM
But do they really need years to come to this realization? Shouldn't we expect better?

Expect better? We should demand better. As with everything else that is bad, it's bad because people keep accepting it.
We're the players of this game, and we can demand more than this.

EvoX.
06-28-2019, 05:00 AM
The only times I've listened intently to a Den is when patch notes are being read by Stefan, reworks are showcased or the new season's stream is on. From what I'm seeing here and judging by Twitch chat, this seems to be the case for most players as well. Community corner, the fairly new tournament segment and any kind of backstory/lore/development trivia or free talk is ill-received.

Your proposed changes are in good heart, but ultimately are not what the majority of the community is looking for. To describe the perfect weekly WD based on how the winds are currently blowing:

Week 1: Raider nerfs announced in progress, as well as complete Shinobi rebalance
Week 2: Assassins, reflex guard, and what they'll be given to be able to compete again
Week 3: Peacekeeper and Valkyrie second reworks announced
Week 4: Global changes to gameplay coming soon

That, however, just isn't happening. The community's crave for gameplay tuning is too voluminous, way above what they're willing or capable of putting forth. At this point, anything other than that is just aggravating for most players. Still, I can't see a reason why we can't have one of these per month other than budget restraints.

In short: the demand for hero/gameplay changes is high enough that literally anything else instead of it will be met with negativity, no matter the quality or how interesting it is.

Halvtand
06-28-2019, 11:53 AM
Good lord you're an entitled little brat aren't you. You paid for the game or whatever dlc you bought and are entitled to nothing beyond that.
Good lord get some perspective man
Excuse you, I paid for a what? Game? Are you still living in 1995? Welcome to the 21st century and Live Services such as For Honor. Ubisoft and other publishers have been pushing the concept of “Games as Live Services” for years now. What I’m trying to do, and what you’re arguing against, is reminding Ubisoft of the commitment they’ve taken on.
With game developers/publishers, what you say is true. You buy the game and whatever else and that’s it. Contract fulfilled. Unfortunately, those days are gone.
As Service Providers Ubisoft now have two jobs. 1. Anticipate the demands and needs of their customers and 2. Provide a service that meets those demands. This is their job. Let’s be frank here. I did not push Ubisoft to adopt this business model, neither did you. I’m fairly sure not a single soul on this forum did anything to push Ubisoft in that direction. This decision came from inside the company itself. They wanted games as a service, I’m here trying to hold them accountable as service providers. The job they wanted and pushed for. I’m sorry to call you out like this, but the mentality you display is exactly why service providers are able to shirk their responsibilities and gets away with the absolute tosh we’ve seen Warrior’s Den become.
Next time, before you start throwing around insults, please educate yourself on the issue and avoid situations like this.


The only times I've listened intently to a Den is when patch notes are being read by Stefan, reworks are showcased or the new season's stream is on. From what I'm seeing here and judging by Twitch chat, this seems to be the case for most players as well. Community corner, the fairly new tournament segment and any kind of backstory/lore/development trivia or free talk is ill-received.

Your proposed changes are in good heart, but ultimately are not what the majority of the community is looking for. To describe the perfect weekly WD based on how the winds are currently blowing:

Week 1: Raider nerfs announced in progress, as well as complete Shinobi rebalance
Week 2: Assassins, reflex guard, and what they'll be given to be able to compete again
Week 3: Peacekeeper and Valkyrie second reworks announced
Week 4: Global changes to gameplay coming soon

That, however, just isn't happening. The community's crave for gameplay tuning is too voluminous, way above what they're willing or capable of putting forth. At this point, anything other than that is just aggravating for most players. Still, I can't see a reason why we can't have one of these per month other than budget restraints.

In short: the demand for hero/gameplay changes is high enough that literally anything else instead of it will be met with negativity, no matter the quality or how interesting it is.
Excellent points. I agree, most of all I’d love to get news like those you point out in every WD. That would be amazing, but sadly not realistic, as you point out.
Yes, I also see that stuff like background stuff and lore is not as high up on the list as big reworks and tweaks, and we would live in a really strange world if it did (one with an almost perfect game, for instance). My initial point was that the background stuff we’ve been given lately (short talks by game devs on how they landed on this project) only really interests a small part of the gaming community, where background stuff the centres on the things we can see and interact with in the game may interest more people. If the stuff on the list doesn’t hit high with you I’d love to add something you suggest can be done during a WD to add interesting content.
My second point being that lacklustre Den’s like this last one could have had something like the stuff on this list to fill time and add content instead of rolling the meme-tape after just 20 minutes.

Klingentaenz3r
06-28-2019, 12:44 PM
I really miss the promised transparency on their work processes. I would like to hear more what they are working on, some early showcases of stuff they are working on, really work in progress things that can change within time but already receive input due to the forthcoming towards the community. I mean they don't even have to take all kinds of feedback in and evaluate it, it can be also condenced stuff that can be targeted as a question towards the community like for instance what do you think are point we should not forget about on this specific kind of change/introduction of the mechanic. It happens all the way too often that stuff gets implemented or changed the community already fortells what would be some crucial points to worry or look out for and they exactly produce these kinds of mistakes that were easily avoidable.

Prominent example: Introduction of the perks early reaper and crush them. Judging from the the description the community was worrying that those boni would apply on minions captains, blocked and even missed attacks. And they were right. However, ubisoft changed it a bit later. They could have done it right right away - however they did it at least a little later (tested that several times) so that the bonus only applied on the first attack which hits an actually player. But then they buffed both perks some patches ago and went back to the OG version. -> Facepalm intensified

The Warrior's Den overall became a waste of time. Although I have to admit that Michael and Clarrisa are doing both a fantastic job. Both handle the communication towards the camera/audience very well. Luke was not really cut out for it. He is always a really great and lovelable addition to the Den but not necessarily as a host.

Contentwise the WD became quite dry and absolutely underwhelming. I would like at this point that they go more indepth with everything like suggested above. They could even go in and give more mechanic insights of the game. Really explaining how things work that are not necessarily explained within the game.

Examples: Stagger lvls of attacks and what they do. Iframes on dodge, dodge attacks, hitboxes and hitbox porn, reach, tracking, option selects, stamina costs, gank tactics, anti gank tactics,
Synergies (feats, abilities, perks, characters)

Of course I personally know most of those things and many others surely too, but I believe that this could help newer players or the casual ones and help them to direct them to a more mechanical look on the game with the possibility to throwing the competitive for honor reddit or the forums a real bone by advertising the more indepth details and materials and discussions (maybe even mentioning hey on the comp for honor subreddit, if you have a question, put in the mega thread). Also, it will always be interesting to have a developer comment on things to have confirmation for some things the community testers like freeze found out and see they thoughts on it (that may shed a different light on some questionable things)

To make the warriors den more prominent they could announce it ingame like they already do but with topics to be discussed. And please do it a few days earlier than just one the very day.


btw @Halvtand, great thread, great suggestions. This is really a great contribution *thumbs up*:)

https://i.imgflip.com/yxov2.jpg

Halvtand
06-28-2019, 01:13 PM
I really miss the promised transparency on their work processes. I would like to hear more what they are working on, some early showcases of stuff they are working on, really work in progress things that can change within time but already receive input due to the forthcoming towards the community. I mean they don't even have to take all kinds of feedback in and evaluate it, it can be also condenced stuff that can be targeted as a question towards the community like for instance what do you think are point we should not forget about on this specific kind of change/introduction of the mechanic. It happens all the way too often that stuff gets implemented or changed the community already fortells what would be some crucial points to worry or look out for and they exactly produce these kinds of mistakes that were easily avoidable.

Prominent example: Introduction of the perks early reaper and crush them. Judging from the the description the community was worrying that those boni would apply on minions captains, blocked and even missed attacks. And they were right. However, ubisoft changed it a bit later. They could have done it right right away - however they did it at least a little later (tested that several times) so that the bonus only applied on the first attack which hits an actually player. But then they buffed both perks some patches ago and went back to the OG version. -> Facepalm intensified

The Warrior's Den overall became a waste of time. Although I have to admit that Michael and Clarrisa are doing both a fantastic job. Both handle the communication towards the camera/audience very well. Luke was not really cut out for it. He is always a really great and lovelable addition to the Den but not necessarily as a host.

Contentwise the WD became quite dry and absolutely underwhelming. I would like at this point that they go more indepth with everything like suggested above. They could even go in and give more mechanic insights of the game. Really explaining how things work that are not necessarily explained within the game.

Examples: Stagger lvls of attacks and what they do. Iframes on dodge, dodge attacks, hitboxes and hitbox porn, reach, tracking, option selects, stamina costs, gank tactics, anti gank tactics,
Synergies (feats, abilities, perks, characters)

Of course I personally know most of those things and many others surely too, but I believe that this could help newer players or the casual ones and help them to direct them to a more mechanical look on the game with the possibility to throwing the competitive for honor reddit or the forums a real bone by advertising the more indepth details and materials and discussions (maybe even mentioning hey on the comp for honor subreddit, if you have a question, put in the mega thread). Also, it will always be interesting to have a developer comment on things to have confirmation for some things the community testers like freeze found out and see they thoughts on it (that may shed a different light on some questionable things)

To make the warriors den more prominent they could announce it ingame like they already do but with topics to be discussed. And please do it a few days earlier than just one the very day.


btw @Halvtand, great thread, great suggestions. This is really a great contribution *thumbs up*:)

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it.
Also, great post. I see you’ve put some thoughts into this. I’ll add these things to the list in the opening post based on what you’ve written:

Mechanic deep dive – Another deep dive. Bring in a dev from the fight team and talk about one of the mechanics in the game such as: Stagger lvls of attacks and what they do, Iframes on dodge, dodge attacks, hitboxes and hitbox porn, reach, tracking, option selects, stamina costs etc.

Strategy corner – Bring in someone from the fight team or invite a known streamer or other “pro” and have them talk strategy. Be it how to get max points in Dominion, how to score kills with a particular hero, gank tactics, anti gank tactics, synergies (feats, abilities, perks, characters) where to stand, how to mind trick… All of that.

Show your work – Have a dev come in and show what they’re working on right now as a teaser and talk about how development of that thing works. This could be anything from mo-capping new moves to writing to rebalance to fixing graphical glitches… The sky’s the limit. It can work really well with the current “meet a dev”-segment, but will focus on what it is they’re doing right now and will add some transparency so we gamers get to feel like we gain an understanding of the game we play and not that the devs are trying to hide stuff.

Community questions – The community loves this stuff and it could easily become a regular feature. There is apparently a mega thread on Reddit, something similar could be done on the official forum as well. Just pick a few questions and answer them. It’s as close you can get to free content.

StarLyric785550
06-28-2019, 02:32 PM
I do not care about these things really. But I agree that the community needs answers, we've been left in a black hole since e3. When I watch the warriors den is just to know about the future of the game, and now, there is a big nothing after the wu lin hero at the end of the year.

Tyrjo
06-28-2019, 05:52 PM
I'd be totally fine if they only had the Warriors den once a month together with some interesting to show, like balancing, upcoming content and so on.

As it is now I stopped watching because it's not time well spent. In the end, you have to respect the time of your viewer if you want them to keep watching.

EvoX.
06-28-2019, 07:40 PM
To slightly correct my previous point about players disliking anything but balancing...:

That Nobushi signature, though.

UbiInsulin
06-28-2019, 09:57 PM
The fact that we haven't had a consistent recap every week across both here and reddit actually makes a pretty powerful statement. One can only hope the developers are acknowledging the statement.

They're now written as articles (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-352008-16/warriors-den-livestream-recap-june-27) on our website, but I do believe there should always be a sticky thread (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/2081576-Warrior-s-Den-Livestream-Recap-June-27) for the aftermath of each episode of Warrior's Den. I'll make sure this happens going forward.

And thanks everyone for letting us know the types of content that would interest you for future episodes!

Also, please note that I deleted a few comments that could qualify as flaming. Don't attack other users with personal insults.

Knight_Raime
06-29-2019, 02:57 AM
They're now written as articles (https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-352008-16/warriors-den-livestream-recap-june-27) on our website, but I do believe there should always be a sticky thread (https://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/2081576-Warrior-s-Den-Livestream-Recap-June-27) for the aftermath of each episode of Warrior's Den. I'll make sure this happens going forward.

And thanks everyone for letting us know the types of content that would interest you for future episodes!

Also, please note that I deleted a few comments that could qualify as flaming. Don't attack other users with personal insults.

When did y'all start doing that? Because if it's been for the past few one's then I apologize profusely. I went entirely off of stickied posts and reddit recaps. So I assumed it wasn't being done anymore when I started seeing inconsistencies. Appreciate both the heads up and the effort to sticky them going forward! <3

Hormly
06-29-2019, 04:20 AM
I'm cool with them doing it once a month

Xeith98zz
06-29-2019, 08:18 PM
I agree whole heartedly that we deserve more than we are getting. I'm sure that just like many game developers, the spark to reveal more content and talking with their community is slowly dying off. Its just how stuff goes. Even if they came up with a decent plan for warriors den I doubt they would really have much to talk about.

UbiInsulin
06-29-2019, 09:55 PM
When did y'all start doing that? Because if it's been for the past few one's then I apologize profusely. I went entirely off of stickied posts and reddit recaps. So I assumed it wasn't being done anymore when I started seeing inconsistencies. Appreciate both the heads up and the effort to sticky them going forward! <3

Looks like we started with Hitokiri reveal. :) And no prob!

rottmeister
07-04-2019, 12:38 PM
I'm hoping that we get another roadmap of July (and August) on this WD. It's been rather quiet judging based on the WD recaps. I feel like the devs are not transparant enough. It surprises me they didn't even showcase the spectator mode after E3 in other WD (correct me if I'm wrong).

It'd be great if they could tell us their plans for the future etc. Or atleast tell us there is a future because if this E3 was the best they got for the coming year than I'm seriously worried about this games' future. I was disappointed that we never really got an answer whether we'll be getting more breach maps or not. It's been nearly a year now and we have yet to hear anything about that.

*sigh*

Nonetheless I'm still excited for the new hero and map. As long as the hero isn't another edgy bald b**** with a blind eye, facepaint and teeth more crooked than Shaman's, that yells "darkness" or "I am death" in icelandic and as long as the map isn't duel/brawl/tribute specific.

Hormly
07-04-2019, 02:11 PM
Still have my fingers crossed for the hammer hero being a dwarf

The_B0G_
07-04-2019, 02:21 PM
No matter what the devs do, they won't make us happy, the reworks are either too weak or too powerful and take way too long to be released, the same goes for all balancing, trying to balance for both console, PC, casuals, and the top 1% of players can't work, they just seem to constantly be missing the mark.

Something with competitive timings for the top 1% of players on PC, is a nightmare for the average console player. Hence the ongoing issues a lot of console players are having with light spam and other 400-500 ms attacks (stunning tap to name one).

If you have nothing of worth to show the community, the Warrior's Den isn't going to be worth watching. No amount of rehashing of topics will change it, if the devs can only balance two characters once every 3-4 months then are you really surprised the Den's are so boring? If you want the Den to be great again, they need to pick up the pace when it comes to balancing and reworks.

Klingentaenz3r
07-17-2019, 12:37 PM
Mechanic deep dive Another deep dive. Bring in a dev from the fight team and talk about one of the mechanics in the game such as: Stagger lvls of attacks and what they do, Iframes on dodge, dodge attacks, hitboxes and hitbox porn, reach, tracking, option selects, stamina costs etc.


thx for adding. I have another example that would interest me in general for the mechanic deep dive which is target switching and its hidden mechanics. My special interest is the issue of still fighting the former target although you already shifted the marker towards another and basically timings as to when you are allowed to swap from one target to another mid chain. Would it have to be delayed input or buffered does directional input contribute anything here, target swap and GB, the difficulties of cycling to multiple targets and what priorities the game currently takes and so on and so on