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View Full Version : You guys need to take I frames out of dodges



Baggin_
06-18-2019, 10:14 PM
Holy curse word. It is driving me insane how you can have curse word poor timing and still dodge a horizontal attack with a side dodge. Wtf, why is this still a thing? Deflects should be the only way you get around not getting hit when you side dodge a horizontal attack.

It's something called physics, a sword (or whatever weapon) moving at a high rate of speed mixed with a high speed movement directly into the weapon does not equal transparency. It's physically impossible.

CandleInTheDark
06-19-2019, 06:57 AM
So firstly you are assuming that people are getting away with ill timed dodges, which is natural, people look for reasons they lost as generally they try to chalk it up to the opponent got lucky or some bs happened, not to say that is a bad thing, it is more comfortable to believe that than you got outplayed. Might as easily be that the person knew exactly what was going to happen and timed out exactly for that. As a by the by, just to kill off any defending his main comments, I am repping up all of the characters to teal gear, started doing that seriously in February with six characters already there, now fourteen down twelve (when the new harbingers are in) to go, I have been on both sides of this situation many times.

In terms of iframes themselves, the warrior would not just be moving directly into the sword, the idea is that they are dodging whether they are ducking or jumping over a blade or weaving or whatever but it is easier to handwave it with they got through the situation well enough than it is to program in every single movement that each individual character would have to make to each and every individual attack, it is a pretty standard thing in fighting games in general, it's no more or less believable than undodgeable attacks where the sword follows them around however they dodged (looking at you stormrush top heavy) or trip attacks tripping a jumping opponent because they are meant, by the function of the battle system, to go down no matter how high they cleared the trip in the course of their arrack.

Baggin_
06-19-2019, 01:05 PM
Actually it's not an assumption, it accounts for my poorly times dodges also getting away with not getting hit too. Not just when I lose. I just hate when things look unnatural. No they absolutely do not duck or jump over anything, the weapon goes straight through them. This makes no sense, they need to tighten up the window, It's too forgiving.

You are absolutely right when sweep attacks hit a character who is jumping, and undodgable attacks are stupid looking too.

This game has really good animators, but they lack certain aspects of physics that look really stupid when you're playing.

Having I frames is just dumb, why do you think this game is slowly dying and Mordhau is thriving? Because everything in that game seems fair and balanced and it makes sense. In For Honor you have these stupid I frames, magnetic guard breaks, guard breaking a character mid combo while they have full momentum on their side, little girls tackeling giant dudes, skin being stronger than armor. Come on candle, the list goes on and on.

I too have a lot invested in this game, PC and PS4 combined I'm around rep 240. But I absolutely hate the way this game is going. 3 years and we still have about the same amount of problems as day 1, different problems, but same amount non the less.

I play it less and less every day, if it keeps going this way then this game is dead to me and I don't want that. I just want them the fix their game.

Vakris_One
06-19-2019, 03:16 PM
Actually it's not an assumption, it accounts for my poorly times dodges also getting away with not getting hit too. Not just when I lose. I just hate when things look unnatural. No they absolutely do not duck or jump over anything, the weapon goes straight through them. This makes no sense, they need to tighten up the window, It's too forgiving.

You are absolutely right when sweep attacks hit a character who is jumping, and undodgable attacks are stupid looking too.

This game has really good animators, but they lack certain aspects of physics that look really stupid when you're playing.

Having I frames is just dumb, why do you think this game is slowly dying and Mordhau is thriving? Because everything in that game seems fair and balanced and it makes sense. In For Honor you have these stupid I frames, magnetic guard breaks, guard breaking a character mid combo while they have full momentum on their side, little girls tackeling giant dudes, skin being stronger than armor. Come on candle, the list goes on and on.

I too have a lot invested in this game, PC and PS4 combined I'm around rep 240. But I absolutely hate the way this game is going. 3 years and we still have about the same amount of problems as day 1, different problems, but same amount non the less.

I play it less and less every day, if it keeps going this way then this game is dead to me and I don't want that. I just want them the fix their game.
To be honest, here it just sounds like you want the game to be made to conform to your personal tastes vis--vis realism.

You're not making any gameplay related arguments as to why you think i-frames for horizontal dodges are bad for the gameplay and what you would have it be instead.

Baggin_
06-19-2019, 03:27 PM
To be honest, here it just sounds like you want the game to be made to conform to your personal tastes vis--vis realism.

You're not making any gameplay related arguments as to why you think i-frames for horizontal dodges are bad for the gameplay and what you would have it be instead.

Uh... I mean, I want the game to make sense. Like, if a weapon hits you, it hits you. Not this invinci dodge that the Souls games have.

Yes, I would like it to be a little more realistic and make sense to the eyes. Who wouldn't?

I have made gameplay related arguments, when I said they need to tighten up the window to be basically deflect timing for dodges to work. I mean, shoot, just dodges should make sense in general.

For example, a side dodge will dodge a top attack but a side dodge will not dodge a horizontal attack. Back dodging will dodge a horizontal attack, but not a top attack. This makes sense. Pretending that a character jumped or ducked over an attack that visually goes through you does not make sense.

The_B0G_
06-19-2019, 06:13 PM
I said the same thing on release, I was playing LB and people were dodging directly into, and through, my side heavy finishers. I think it's kind of bs as well as far as I would like the game to be, more physics based.

I realized shortly after though that the game wasn't going in that direction, the movement and most of the animations look very real in the game, but there are clearly no physics involved in the fighting portion.

It's just the way the game is, it won't change, just like the goofy looking high skill level tactics in Mordhau, the spinning, dragging and accels make the fighting look pretty cheesy.

Point being, you can't have it all and the devs need to make sacrifices to make a fun, playable game. A truly realistic fighting game would have a ton of factors needed; balance, strength, momentum, agility, endurance, physical height and weight, weapon weight and length would also make a difference. I can't see anyone make that game any time soon.

Making the game too realistic would make balancing the game across a dozen or more different characters impossible.