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View Full Version : A few Hitokiri requests



Sneakly20
06-14-2019, 05:22 AM
Iím throwing out a few opinions of mine to help her out in the game. Just a few improvements I would like to see.

1. Itís known that her first heavy is quicker than most at 700ms. While this itself can lead to an advantage the big offender here is the hyper armor start up. It kicks in early which means on red you can throw a heavy out. I suggest to move it back a couple milliseconds to put it in line.

2. Working off of 1 ; I believe that in the event her hyper armor is moved up in her timings or removed on her beginning heavy, she should receive hyper armor on all chain heavies.

3. She enters her stance that flashes unblockable symbol on startup instead of the individual kick or sweep for the bash mixup. I propose to remove this to make either option easier to dish out. Only showing unblockable when she actually throws the attack or sweep. This may work. It may not. Someone with better knowledge please correct me.

4. Working off of 3 ; i do think that the recovery on her bashes should be toned down a little bit. The kick I donít care for as it rewards 30 but the sweep should be less forgiving due to its reward.

5. Forward dash heavy and zone combo. Zone should be faster or deal more damage. If I remember correctly it does 20 damage. Why is it as long as it is?

6. This one is more of a complaint. When you land a sweep or go to light finisher from heavy, thereís this ridiculous delay on the light. This makes consistent hyper armor trades difficult but more over makes the light after sweep unsafe. This delay is not present on her light to light combo and is not present after landing the kick to light.

7. Forward dash heavy should be sped up or make it able to be feinted. Itís sitting at 700ms right now with variable timing. 600ms doesnít hurt Iím sure. And please give it some reach.

8. My final point is her 4v4 presence;

Her attacks have abysmal AOE when fighting around enemies. Please give her some love.

Hitoís tier 4 feat. A one shot that while can be set up for the kill has a very generous dodge timing and absolutely no range and can be body blocked or object blocked easily. I would complain further about this but itís still a one shot in most instances and it has a very short cool down.

Finally on the list is her tier one. While the value goes up on how quick her executions are she doesnít have any real quick ones yet. It can also be Gb. Please remove this and it would be perfect.

I know itís a long read but I want some serious community input on this and her current state.

Okt0g00N
06-14-2019, 07:40 AM
I’m throwing out a few opinions of mine to help her out in the game. Just a few improvements I would like to see.

1. It’s known that her first heavy is quicker than most at 700ms. While this itself can lead to an advantage the big offender here is the hyper armor start up. It kicks in early which means on red you can throw a heavy out. I suggest to move it back a couple milliseconds to put it in line.

2. Working off of 1 ; I believe that in the event her hyper armor is moved up in her timings or removed on her beginning heavy, she should receive hyper armor on all chain heavies.

3. She enters her stance that flashes unblockable symbol on startup instead of the individual kick or sweep for the bash mixup. I propose to remove this to make either option easier to dish out. Only showing unblockable when she actually throws the attack or sweep. This may work. It may not. Someone with better knowledge please correct me.

4. Working off of 3 ; i do think that the recovery on her bashes should be toned down a little bit. The kick I don’t care for as it rewards 30 but the sweep should be less forgiving due to its reward.

5. Forward dash heavy and zone combo. Zone should be faster or deal more damage. If I remember correctly it does 20 damage. Why is it as long as it is?

6. This one is more of a complaint. When you land a sweep or go to light finisher from heavy, there’s this ridiculous delay on the light. This makes consistent hyper armor trades difficult but more over makes the light after sweep unsafe. This delay is not present on her light to light combo and is not present after landing the kick to light.

7. Forward dash heavy should be sped up or make it able to be feinted. It’s sitting at 700ms right now with variable timing. 600ms doesn’t hurt I’m sure. And please give it some reach.

8. My final point is her 4v4 presence;

Her attacks have abysmal AOE when fighting around enemies. Please give her some love.

Hito’s tier 4 feat. A one shot that while can be set up for the kill has a very generous dodge timing and absolutely no range and can be body blocked or object blocked easily. I would complain further about this but it’s still a one shot in most instances and it has a very short cool down.

Finally on the list is her tier one. While the value goes up on how quick her executions are she doesn’t have any real quick ones yet. It can also be Gb. Please remove this and it would be perfect.

I know it’s a long read but I want some serious community input on this and her current state.

So, it really was hard to understand, i mean what number 3 is supposed to mean, her unblockable indicator, her orange glow and a sweep trail for her unblockable heavy?, must be just me but it was unclear, maybe you can use some words to give a better general idea?

Although i couldn't understand some parts because of my peanut brain, you really pointed out her problems, great post

Sneakly20
06-14-2019, 07:44 AM
So, it really was hard to understand, i mean what number 3 is supposed to mean, her unblockable indicator, her orange glow and a sweep trail for her unblockable heavy?, must be just me but it was unclear, maybe you can use some words to give a better general idea?

Although i couldn't understand some parts because of my peanut brain, you really pointed out her problems, great post

After a heavy when you want to do the kick into heavy or sweep to light she ducks her head and body for the animation. The problem Iím bringing up is that before she throws the kick or sweep the unblockable indicator is already there when she ducks. Iím saying to change it from showing the whole time to only showing it during the kick or sweep. However I donít know if this will make it easier or harder to read.

Siegfried-Z
06-14-2019, 09:28 AM
Iím throwing out a few opinions of mine to help her out in the game. Just a few improvements I would like to see.

1. Itís known that her first heavy is quicker than most at 700ms. While this itself can lead to an advantage the big offender here is the hyper armor start up. It kicks in early which means on red you can throw a heavy out. I suggest to move it back a couple milliseconds to put it in line.

2. Working off of 1 ; I believe that in the event her hyper armor is moved up in her timings or removed on her beginning heavy, she should receive hyper armor on all chain heavies.

3. She enters her stance that flashes unblockable symbol on startup instead of the individual kick or sweep for the bash mixup. I propose to remove this to make either option easier to dish out. Only showing unblockable when she actually throws the attack or sweep. This may work. It may not. Someone with better knowledge please correct me.

4. Working off of 3 ; i do think that the recovery on her bashes should be toned down a little bit. The kick I donít care for as it rewards 30 but the sweep should be less forgiving due to its reward.

5. Forward dash heavy and zone combo. Zone should be faster or deal more damage. If I remember correctly it does 20 damage. Why is it as long as it is?

6. This one is more of a complaint. When you land a sweep or go to light finisher from heavy, thereís this ridiculous delay on the light. This makes consistent hyper armor trades difficult but more over makes the light after sweep unsafe. This delay is not present on her light to light combo and is not present after landing the kick to light.

7. Forward dash heavy should be sped up or make it able to be feinted. Itís sitting at 700ms right now with variable timing. 600ms doesnít hurt Iím sure. And please give it some reach.

8. My final point is her 4v4 presence;

Her attacks have abysmal AOE when fighting around enemies. Please give her some love.

Hitoís tier 4 feat. A one shot that while can be set up for the kill has a very generous dodge timing and absolutely no range and can be body blocked or object blocked easily. I would complain further about this but itís still a one shot in most instances and it has a very short cool down.

Finally on the list is her tier one. While the value goes up on how quick her executions are she doesnít have any real quick ones yet. It can also be Gb. Please remove this and it would be perfect.

I know itís a long read but I want some serious community input on this and her current state.

Interesting. If i may :
1/ why not, thats not a big deal but why not.

2/ no, HA on all heavies isnt a good idea. She already has enough and we already have enough HA in the game overall.

3/ it can be a good idea to prevent her kick/sweep to be avoided too easly. But overall her bash needs a better range/tracking.

4/ agree her kick needs slighly less recovery. But the following heavy should not be 30 but 25dmg max (not a light tough cuz her purpose is to execute).

5/ i dont see why her zone should deal more than 20dmg or be faster than 600ms. Hito is a heavy, her zone looks fine to me if you dont abuse obviously. Her kit dont need a Warden zone.
But i agree she should be able to chain after using it.

6/ yes, her animation is kind of weird on that light, there is an unecessary delay like when BP had his own on his top heavy after a throw for a wallsplat.

7/ i think her foward dash heavy should chain, like her zone, but thats all.
Many complain about it but Imo her range is pretty good already considering she is a heavy using a 25kg axe .. si i dont see why she could have a crazy range on that or why she could feint it.

8/ it is true her aoe is nothing special except maybe on her side UB.
But thats not a problem for her imo. Not all heroes have to be insane aoe one like Raider or JJ.

About her tier 4, i agree it should have a better range and a smaller window to dodge.

Sneakly20
06-14-2019, 05:01 PM
Interesting. If i may :
1/ why not, thats not a big deal but why not.

2/ no, HA on all heavies isnt a good idea. She already has enough and we already have enough HA in the game overall.

3/ it can be a good idea to prevent her kick/sweep to be avoided too easly. But overall her bash needs a better range/tracking.

4/ agree her kick needs slighly less recovery. But the following heavy should not be 30 but 25dmg max (not a light tough cuz her purpose is to execute).

5/ i dont see why her zone should deal more than 20dmg or be faster than 600ms. Hito is a heavy, her zone looks fine to me if you dont abuse obviously. Her kit dont need a Warden zone.
But i agree she should be able to chain after using it.

6/ yes, her animation is kind of weird on that light, there is an unecessary delay like when BP had his own on his top heavy after a throw for a wallsplat.

7/ i think her foward dash heavy should chain, like her zone, but thats all.
Many complain about it but Imo her range is pretty good already considering she is a heavy using a 25kg axe .. si i dont see why she could have a crazy range on that or why she could feint it.

8/ it is true her aoe is nothing special except maybe on her side UB.
But thats not a problem for her imo. Not all heroes have to be insane aoe one like Raider or JJ.

About her tier 4, i agree it should have a better range and a smaller window to dodge.

1 and 2 go hand in hand. I do want more hyper armor on her unless her first heavy is weaker in the hyper armor or if the armor is removed altogether so that her chain has it. I would have no problem if they removed the armor on the first heavy to give it to her chain.

3. Which bash are you talking about? The sweep actually has decent tracking but can be rolled. It also inconsistently track back dodged if they are in your face. But she has the backwalk syndrome.

4. I can live with that. But the kick itself is always avoided because of the unblockable indicator when she ducts down. They then just roll the sweep.

5. I would think that 600ms would warrant at least 25 damage. If I remember right I believe JJ gets 25 on his zone, warlord too, I think lawbro gets 22.

7. Iím fine with everything about the forward dash heavy but it needs to be faster. 600ms so itís a reliable option. And I said feint because if it stays at its current speed itís not very useful. A read has to be done to use it to catch rollers or itís a free parry. A 700ms move that canít be feinted especially in a kit like hito doesnít see much use. In 4s it more or less does the job to get into combat but thatís why it should chain like we agreed.

8. I donít want her to be nuts with it, I just mean having something. She has issues in the middle of group fights because her attacks only hit her target. Even opponents standing right in front of you donít get hit.

On her feats Iím even okay with reach as long as itís dodge window is tighter.

I really want GB gone from her tier 1 feat. You get a shield and uninterruptible but all bashes and GB break you and hurt you.

AmonDarkGod
06-14-2019, 05:46 PM
I want her to have better recovery thats her greatest weakness. For number 3 Hihlander also has the same thing He can either kick u or caber toss u the flash is still there if that is being edited Highlander also shud be edited

Knight_Raime
06-16-2019, 12:22 AM
Not going to make individual comments because I'm on mobile but you pretty much nailed almost all of her issues and gave reasonable change suggestions.

Aside from what you've listed and what I've complained about I've been trying to figure out how to make her mid combo pressure better. Variable timed heavies themselves don't aid you at all when being ganked. And while armor on them would be helpful and I agree for such a thing it still wouldn't be enough.

My immediate thought is her unblockable bashes. But kick isn't really good target swapping wise because it's both react able and has no armor. Her sweep does get armor but it's slow and has abysmal recovery.

Beyond that I'm still trying to think of a use for her light finisher. I mean almost instant trades are nice I guess. But idk. It's recovery should probably be buffed because it's also kinda bad.

Sneakly20
06-16-2019, 02:01 AM
Not going to make individual comments because I'm on mobile but you pretty much nailed almost all of her issues and gave reasonable change suggestions.

Aside from what you've listed and what I've complained about I've been trying to figure out how to make her mid combo pressure better. Variable timed heavies themselves don't aid you at all when being ganked. And while armor on them would be helpful and I agree for such a thing it still wouldn't be enough.

My immediate thought is her unblockable bashes. But kick isn't really good target swapping wise because it's both react able and has no armor. Her sweep does get armor but it's slow and has abysmal recovery.

Beyond that I'm still trying to think of a use for her light finisher. I mean almost instant trades are nice I guess. But idk. It's recovery should probably be buffed because it's also kinda bad.

I always type up on mobile is thatís why I never quote individual things ;)

Anyway you say the kick is react able. Is this because of the ducking animation she does? I said in my original post that removing the indicator would help, but maybe I can go a step further and get rid of the ducking animation altogether. On button press you get the kick and if you hold it then you duck for variable timed kick or hold to sweep.

I would think that would help mid chain at least.

Knight_Raime
06-16-2019, 09:27 AM
I always type up on mobile is that’s why I never quote individual things ;)

Anyway you say the kick is react able. Is this because of the ducking animation she does? I said in my original post that removing the indicator would help, but maybe I can go a step further and get rid of the ducking animation altogether. On button press you get the kick and if you hold it then you duck for variable timed kick or hold to sweep.

I would think that would help mid chain at least.

it's a combination of the indicator and animation. frame data says the kick is 500ms. But it feels like an 800ms kick visually. So I usually can dodge it consistently on reaction. I think addressing her bash indicators will help. But I think if her kick was harder to punish and/or had better tracking it would feel more threatening.