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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 09:50 PM
I read a few posts here and there of LW players that the LA5's and 7's don't bleed enough energy during turns etc.

The weird thing that strikes me is that they complain about it being overmodelled and that it provides unfair advantages.

I don't know if any of you complainers have actually flown the LA's in a combat situation but I don't see it as an advantage at all.

There are a lot of moves you cannot do because your speed is too high or worse, it builds up speed but I want to drain speed in order to complete my move.

Long dives are out of the question as well, even with prop pitch to 0, throttle to 0 and radiator full open I cannot make long dives but have to pull out very rapidly or my plane breaks up on me.
Even with a simple Split S while flying at 400km/h IAS and you come out of it at nearly maximum speed with cement controls and your plane shaking of the hull stress, also with prop pitch and throttle both set to 0.

At high speed the LA's act like a dog and I truly hope that the harly no speed bleed on these planes will be fixed in the next patch.

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 09:50 PM
I read a few posts here and there of LW players that the LA5's and 7's don't bleed enough energy during turns etc.

The weird thing that strikes me is that they complain about it being overmodelled and that it provides unfair advantages.

I don't know if any of you complainers have actually flown the LA's in a combat situation but I don't see it as an advantage at all.

There are a lot of moves you cannot do because your speed is too high or worse, it builds up speed but I want to drain speed in order to complete my move.

Long dives are out of the question as well, even with prop pitch to 0, throttle to 0 and radiator full open I cannot make long dives but have to pull out very rapidly or my plane breaks up on me.
Even with a simple Split S while flying at 400km/h IAS and you come out of it at nearly maximum speed with cement controls and your plane shaking of the hull stress, also with prop pitch and throttle both set to 0.

At high speed the LA's act like a dog and I truly hope that the harly no speed bleed on these planes will be fixed in the next patch.

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 09:54 PM
Oh, poor you! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But we do agree, I hope it will get some attention too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 10:15 PM
You can't have to much energy ever.

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 10:38 PM
RBJ_4 wrote:
- You can't have to much energy ever.

Back to Ace school for you.

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XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 10:57 PM
RBJ_4 wrote:
- You can't have to much energy ever.

True.

Cappadocian_317 wrote:

There are a lot of moves you cannot do because your speed is too high or worse, it builds up speed but I want to drain speed in order to complete my move."

You kiddin'?
Wonder what kind of moves those are /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-22-2003, 11:04 PM
MetalGear_ wrote:
- RBJ_4 wrote:
-- You can't have to much energy ever.
-
- True.
-
- Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- There are a lot of moves you cannot do because your
- speed is too high or worse, it builds up speed but I
- want to drain speed in order to complete my move."
-
- You kiddin'?
- Wonder what kind of moves those are

You reading?

Guess not because I already said a simple move like a Split S.

And you can have too much energy during moves, you guys don't understand that when you do a Split S starting at 400km/h and come out of it shaking, reaching nearly the structual limit speed of the airframe with cement controls is having too much energy?

Boy, you 2 are even more stupid then I thought.

PS: Leren lezen Metal, dat scheelt.
Ik kan nog wel een paar Nijntje boekjes proberen te vinden voor je, kun je je basis begrijpend lezen op niveau brengen.

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Message Edited on 09/22/0311:08PM by Cappadocian_317

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 08:14 PM
Not to mention blacking out trying to follow good 109 pilots

"Remember, that's war. We're all in one boat. He who thinks only of himself will destroy himself too. Such selfishness will not be tolerated!"


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XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 08:30 PM
Screw you Cappa!! No need to call people names.

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 08:33 PM
RBJ_4 wrote:
- Screw you Cappa!! No need to call people names.

Then don't make dumb statements like you did, especially if you don't even understand what is written in the first place.

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XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 08:40 PM
To defeat the LA7, you LW guys have to engage it @ high speed, w/ plenty of vertical maneuvers. (But I don't have to tell you that, cuz the LW planes excel in this area anyway) The LA7 doses have concrete controls above 450km/hr and @ that speed even a FW190 can out turn it. The trick is to engage in vertical maneuvers. Get the LA to follow you into a power dive and pull vertical as hard as you can; even blacking out a little. When you bleed back down to turn speed you can pounce on the LA who is now making a large upward loop trying to follow.

When I fly the LA7 I never dive after an opponent and in most turn situations I high Yo-Yo to keep myself @ corner speed. No, a fighter plane can't have too much E, but I'd rather invest that E in alt and still be able to maneuver effectively.


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XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 09:11 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- RBJ_4 wrote:
-- You can't have to much energy ever.
-
- Back to Ace school for you.


LOL..you got that right... Back to Ace school...LOL...
I hadnt flown an La-7 since 1.11. Needless to say I was quite surprised when my plane broke up while diving on some 190s....I never got off a shot. I wasnt all that high either. The P-39 will do that too if you are up high and dive too fast...only the Jug out of the planes I have tried that with, seems to keep itself together.....unless of course you are doing a power dive from like 30,000ft.

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XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 09:36 PM
Jeez revenge is SWEET Learn to fly /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "Karaya One"

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 09:45 PM
LW_lcarp wrote:
- Jeez revenge is SWEET Learn to fly

So according to you it's normal that a plane with 0 throttle and 0 prop pitch and radiator full open gains speed very rapidly eh?

On a high gravity planet, yes, but this is earth.


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XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 09:52 PM
No, Bf109, all models, and surprise, Yak3 (not the other Yaks) bleed twice the speed other planes bleed.
Speed bleed in turns is a function of excess_thrust/weight so in reality Bf-109 bled the least speed, like La7.


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XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 09:58 PM
Huckebein_FW wrote:
- No, Bf109, all models, and surprise, Yak3 (not the
- other Yaks) bleed twice the speed other planes
- bleed.
- Speed bleed in turns is a function of
- excess_thrust/weight so in reality Bf-109 bled the
- least speed, like La7.

The LA's hardly bleed speed at all, in some cases they even gain speed while they should bleed it.

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XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 10:05 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- Huckebein_FW wrote:
-- No, Bf109, all models, and surprise, Yak3 (not the
-- other Yaks) bleed twice the speed other planes
-- bleed.
-- Speed bleed in turns is a function of
-- excess_thrust/weight so in reality Bf-109 bled the
-- least speed, like La7.
-
- The LA's hardly bleed speed at all, in some cases
- they even gain speed while they should bleed it.


No, it is correct. Until now you could drop even 100kmh below the best sustained turn speed (with WEP selected). This simply does not happen in reality. If you pull so hard that the speed drops below best sustained speed at a particular power setting, the plane should immediately spin. If you're above that speed means that you don't pull the stick hard enough for the best turn performance, therefore the plane will accelerate (even if it is in turn). This behaviour was not reproduced by earlier variants of Il2, and it was a big error in FM.


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XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 10:28 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
-
- LW_lcarp wrote:
-- Jeez revenge is SWEET Learn to fly
-
- So according to you it's normal that a plane with 0
- throttle and 0 prop pitch and radiator full open
- gains speed very rapidly eh?


Yes that is correct as long as its a VVS plane but if it were a LW plane then no that would be incorrect as the engine would burnout when you did that for 10 seconds.

If ya dont believe me just ask Oleg or one of the other Commiewhiners/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "Karaya One"

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 11:01 PM
The stupidity of your posts resembles your lack of skill in online flying as your 1st post describes.
You can't take critisism very well, you start calling people all kind of things. It is clear that you do not have a good reply to the people who don't agree with you.
I suggest you actually read a bit about retaining energy etc. and then come back and make a post that actually has value.
Further than that, you are not worth replying to.


Message Edited on 09/24/0312:23AM by MetalGear_

XyZspineZyX
09-23-2003, 11:04 PM
LA's bleed plenty of E!!~ Try racing with them!!!

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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 11:53 AM
MetalGear_ wrote:
- The stupidity of your posts resembles your lack of
- skill in online flying as your 1st post describes.
- You can't take critisism very well, you start
- calling people all kind of things. It is clear that
- you do not have a good reply to the people who don't
- agree with you.
- I suggest you actually read a bit about retaining
- energy etc. and then come back and make a post that
- actually has value.
- Further than that, you are not worth replying to.

This is too funny.

LW people complain about the LA's not bleeding enough speed and it should be fixed because it gives unfair advantage and this is accepted.

Then I come with the same issue but with a different result and now all of a sudden it's my lack of online flying skills and further more it's correct that it gains speed and not bleed speed.

Man this is the lamest post I have ever seen from you litte Pietertje.

If I were you I would not visit us on the Tiger meet in November, and if you do don't come near me.

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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 12:16 PM
So, what you want Cappa? One drag coef for accel and climbing (you are probably satisfied with excellent performance of La7) and another, much worse for diving?

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 12:28 PM
From what I read so far the LA7 climbs too fast and turns too good as well.

So basicly what I want is to have the climb rate fixed, the turn rate fixed and the E bleed fixed.

If I would have posted it the other way around and complained about it in a overmodelled fasion they would have agreed with me.

What a joke.

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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 12:38 PM
ddd dd dd ddd dd dd ddddd We now take you to our news bulletin. Lowering pitch also lowers your engine RPM which means...it's actually the reverse of lowering your pitch. Lowering the percentage of pitch actually raises the prop pitch, and further loads the engine.
Thats why I use it to climb, and to simply make bombing runs in a HE-111 at 400+

If you want to bleed speed which I take it is what your trying to do it's simple. Throttle back pitch 100%, and drop as much flap as you can without jamming them up. Then do your split S. If you have too much speed though you have to bleed more before you split S. Let them chase you through an immelman then split-S for example.

Personnaly flying 109's I never split-S. Boom, and zoom, and vertical turn fighting is where it's at.

I hope that helps you with your speed bleed better. Althoug as others were trying to say you never want to bleed speed. If you do wish to bleed speed the only correct option is to transfer speed for altitude to maintain your energy level, and potential.
So always climb when you want to bleed speed. Or if your really desperate to bleed it just doa few snaps.

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:28 PM
With 100% prop pitch and 0% throttle your RPM and speed does not drop.
The only way to reduce the RPM and speed is to drop both the throttle and prop pitch to 0% and even this is not enough so I also have to open the cowling flaps to full.



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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 01:53 PM
Hi Cappadocian_317,

- LW people complain about the LA's not bleeding
- enough speed and it should be fixed because it gives
- unfair advantage and this is accepted.
-
- Then I come with the same issue but with a different
- result and now all of a sudden it's my lack of
- online flying skills and further more it's correct
- that it gains speed and not bleed speed.
-
- Man this is the lamest post I have ever seen from
- you litte Pietertje.
-
- If I were you I would not visit us on the Tiger meet
- in November, and if you do don't come near me.

Now now now, there's no need for that I think.

Just point and laugh. It's what I do.

As a PS, I feel compelled to point out that yes, people are indeed entirely correct in telling you to try and transfer your excess speed into altitude, rather than trying to hit the brakes so you can turn with someone. Maybe in a 1v1 against a rookie pilot [online or off] this would be a good strategy, but climbing allows you so many more options to dictate the fight. If you don't imperitively need to hang on tight to another plane to kill them, don't do it - feel free to back off and pick them off when they've got next to no chance. Getting into a very fast close range scissors or turnfight, when you've got the power to spare that the La7 does, is a silly move.


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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 02:52 PM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- LW people complain about the LA's not bleeding
- enough speed and it should be fixed because it gives
- unfair advantage and this is accepted.
-
- Then I come with the same issue but with a different
- result and now all of a sudden it's my lack of
- online flying skills and further more it's correct
- that it gains speed and not bleed speed.

Thats not what I said.
Appereantly you don't read so well yourself, Cap. It's not correct to gain energy in certain maneuvers etc., ofcourse. However I don't see how your result is different from 'LW people'. You both say the aircraft retains too much energy.
Because you have the weird tention to call everyone names and what not in your post who do not agree with you fully, my tone was sarcastic, and I was also angry. With your lack of skill I mean, if you have so much speed and energy, why don't you use that by going up instead of wasting it on going down??
Now as for 'lame', I suggest you read your posts again.
As for your threat, I'm not quite impressed. I suggest you bring up some real arguments about this La-7 post and impress me that way.
Keep your insults to yourself and try bringing up reasonable arguments for once. It might actually make you look credible.

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 03:08 PM
Already done Metal, I clearly pointed out the flaws as it stands yet you choose to make a stupid reply to that in the first place.

I did some more testing and even at 250 km/h I am nearly unable to complete a Split S in a normal manor.

And it's not only the Split S, several other moves are nearly impossible to finish because of the abnormal speed gaining of the LA's.

But you just had to come in here with stupid replies because it's written from a different point of view.

If this was written by someone else in the "It overmodelled" fasion you would agree with it.

And if you are confident enough to try it out then by all means come by and find out.

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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 03:20 PM
Sure will do. Still don't know why you started flipping all the sudden but heck I find it funny /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .

- I did some more testing and even at 250 km/h I am
- nearly unable to complete a Split S in a normal
- manor.

Trying, will give you my results when done. But still, if you get so much speed and energy out of the La-7, why not go upwards? Should usually give you better chances.

- If this was written by someone else in the "It
- overmodelled" fasion you would agree with it.

Well you said yourself it was, not being able to complete a split-S in a normal manner because of the speed.
So yes I think the energy retainment is too high. But I dont call anyone stupid because of that.

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 03:33 PM
Ok just tested:

Starting:
410 km/h full boost 110%
auto pitch, mix 100%
alt: 3000, summer map.
Split-S
end alt: 2000
end speed: 630km/h -> little shaking, no blackout (black near the edges though /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

The only negative thing you may find is that the cockpit shakes so you have difficulty firing your cannons on target. But I don't find this a very disturbing issue.
Still, going the other way, up, gives you better options. You won't blackout so easily either.

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 03:55 PM
Hi Cappadocian,

You may find the following charts compiled by Alex Voicu from SimHQ of interest:

http://www.alexvoicu.home.ro/enbl_comp.html


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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 04:05 PM
You forgot the cement controls while going at 630km/h, and you get the same result with 0 throttle, not to mention the loss of 1000 meters with a Split S.
Any other plane in the game can do it much better without gaining that much speed.

And going in a vertical manuever with someone on your six is a bad option, unless you enjoy getting shot down all the time.

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