PDA

View Full Version : Further Raider nerfs



Goat_of_Vermund
06-09-2019, 09:38 PM
I think the following nerfs are needed to make raider somewhat balanced.

1. Stunning tap should drain 0 stamina. It restart chains, gives a fairly strong blind for a very strong mixups, and deals very high damage for a softfeint this strong, so it is unneeded.
2. Stampede charge and the forward throw should drain up to 60% of the raider's stamina. He is the one who is carrying an other guy (possibly one weighting more than him) on his shoulder, he should be the one losing stamina. The enemy could take a small nap on his shoulder while carried (or stab him with his weapon). But to be fair, let's the other player lose stamina, just not more than the raider.
3. Unblockables shouldn't be softfeintable into guardbreak. It is a broken bs.

FlyinBeef
06-09-2019, 10:21 PM
I think the following nerfs are needed to make raider somewhat balanced.
1. Stunning tap should drain 0 stamina. It restart chains, gives a fairly strong blind for a very strong mixups, and deals very high damage for a softfeint this strong, so it is unneeded.
2. Stampede charge and the forward throw should drain up to 60% of the raider's stamina. He is the one who is carrying an other guy (possibly one weighting more than him) on his shoulder, he should be the one losing stamina. The enemy could take a small nap on his shoulder while carried (or stab him with his weapon). But to be fair, let's the other player lose stamina, just not more than the raider.
Maybe 10 symbolic stamina damage without stopping stamina regeneration stunning tap and 10-20 stamina drain on stampede charge with 10 stamina damage after wallsplat. I think after such changes he will be ok.

3. Unblockables shouldn't be softfeintable into guardbreak. It is a broken bs.
I don't see the reasons why he must lose his gb soft-feint on zone.

Siegfried-Z
06-09-2019, 10:27 PM
Imo now that we got rid of Dodge GB and that ST deals 15dmg and 30 stam dmg (plus new stam system) his kit feels ok in 1v1. But i agree he could drain less stam during the running charge after a GB.
What he needs to be balanced in 4v4 is a dmg nerf :
-Raider fury from 50 to 45
-Side heavy HA finisher from 40 to 35

Considering his insane aoe and now HA, i dont see the point for him to keep his crazy high dmg while he got a much more versatile kit.

FlyinBeef
06-09-2019, 10:39 PM
Imo now that we got rid of Dodge GB and that ST deals 15dmg and 30 stam dmg (plus new stam system) his kit feels ok in 1v1. But i agree he could drain less stam during the running charge after a GB.
What he needs to be balanced in 4v4 is a dmg nerf :
-Raider fury from 50 to 45
-Side heavy HA finisher from 40 to 35

Considering his insane aoe and now HA, i dont see the point for him to keep his crazy high dmg while he got a much more versatile kit.
I still think he need stamina pressure nerf. Now it is even stronger than it was before patch.

Knight_Raime
06-09-2019, 10:44 PM
IMO what i'd prefer to see is:

~All lights do 15 damage.
~Stun effect can't be re applied while stun is still in effect.
~All heavies reduced by 5 damage.
~Chain light/light finisher moved to be 500ms.
~Knee on wall splat does no stamina damage.
~Stamina pool increase.
~Can chain finishers into chained zone.
~reduce maximum possible stamina damage with stampede from 44? to 35.

I have also debated about making his armor on mid chain heavies come out later. But i'd rather see he get damage/stamina damage numbers adjusted first. Because that in itself might balance out the agressive use of his armor.

FlyinBeef
06-10-2019, 03:35 AM
IMO what i'd prefer to see is:

~All lights do 15 damage.
~Stun effect can't be re applied while stun is still in effect.
~All heavies reduced by 5 damage.
~Chain light/light finisher moved to be 500ms.
~Knee on wall splat does no stamina damage.
~Stamina pool increase.
~Can chain finishers into chained zone.
~reduce maximum possible stamina damage with stampede from 44? to 35.

I have also debated about making his armor on mid chain heavies come out later. But i'd rather see he get damage/stamina damage numbers adjusted first. Because that in itself might balance out the agressive use of his armor.
I can agree only with light/heavy damage decrease, it can be not specifically 5dmg nerf for every heavy, but yeah, some need damage nerf, maybe most, maybe even chain zone. About lights, yeah, they can be all 15dmg, but after that they need to be all 500ms (I don't know who thought that 600ms/700ms 2nd/3rd top light will be cool idea). Also he need of course stamina pressure nerf, but not only after stampede, at all, because stampede for 44stm and then guaranteed 30stm from stunning tap which can provide another stunning tap for 30stm which are summary 104stm damage is too much, I think it must be 20-30stm damage from spampede and 10stm damage from both knee hit and stunning tap and both doesn't stop stamina regeneration (stampede can). Other changes I think unneeded.

Lotus.Sia
06-10-2019, 10:44 AM
Raider Is absolutely fine right now for being a stamina bully & a high damage threat also having his dodge gb removed. I'm not even a raider main.

FlyinBeef
06-10-2019, 11:08 AM
Raider Is absolutely fine right now for being a stamina bully & a high damage threat also having his dodge gb removed. I'm not even a raider main.
No man, it isn't ok to have such stamina bully even being offense-based hero. Other things of course arguably right, but new stamina pressure is not normal. He can deal 104 stamina damage (44 from stampede, 30 for guaranteed stunning tap and another 30 for unguaranteed stunning tap but which is of course easy to do with stun) for gb easily which is always OOS if you was GBroken when tried to mix-up.

Liduras
06-10-2019, 11:39 AM
If the other S tiers are also nerfed with him, it can make the game better. But lets not nerf only Raider and make the meta smaller.

Lotus.Sia
06-10-2019, 11:51 AM
No man, it isn't ok to have such stamina bully even being offense-based hero. Other things of course arguably right, but new stamina pressure is not normal. He can deal 104 stamina damage (44 from stampede, 30 for guaranteed stunning tap and another 30 for unguaranteed stunning tap but which is of course easy to do with stun) for gb easily which is always OOS if you was GBroken when tried to mix-up.



That's only if he gets full range carry from his gb & also a wall needs to be there. That's very unlikely to happen even on well coordinated team. Positioning is one of the important aspect you have to keep your mind on. But i won't mind a slight number nerf on that, slightly. A good player looks for his stamina consumption, so that he doesn't get oos easily.

The_B0G_
06-10-2019, 11:53 AM
His carry distance should have been nerfed along with WL's and Shaman's.

Lotus.Sia
06-10-2019, 12:15 PM
His carry distance should have been nerfed along with WL's and Shaman's.

One of the reason they nerfed WL's & shaman's is y3s3. That's a great thing coming from the devs.

The_B0G_
06-10-2019, 12:33 PM
One of the reason they nerfed WL's & shaman's is y3s3. That's a great thing coming from the devs.

They keep saying it will make sense why they were nerfed once the new season starts, but I don't have much faith left for this dev team, WL is already a rarely picked character with not much going for him, I think any nerf to him should have been accompanied with a buff.

AmonDarkGod
06-10-2019, 12:50 PM
He needs a nerf he does waay too much damage and his attacks are waay too fast also considering the blocks and parries rarely work now...