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View Full Version : Rework plans on some weaker heroes



Goat_of_Vermund
06-06-2019, 03:23 PM
I think you should rework the heroes listed below, as they become more and more useless with every day a new hero made or reworked. I kept new animations out as much as I could. You really shouldn't make us wait entire seasons, as these heroes are useless for more than a year (or from release actually). This is not a full list of course.

Peacekeeper:

1. Heavy-light chain added.
2. Deep gouge and dagger cancel act as second lights in a chain (heavy followup enabled). Dodge attack acts as first heavy in the chain.
3. Dodge attacks are now feintable.
4. Hitting a bleeding opponent restores 7 stamina.
5. Hitting with any heavy attack (including dodge attacks and the second part of the zone) on a bleeding opponent gives extra 10 damage, and turns all the bleed into direct damage (ie a 25 damage heavy on an opponent with 30 bleed deals 65 damage and consumes the bleed). No deep gouge if hitting an already bleeding target.
6. Top heavy finisher is unblockable. It can't be followed up with deep gouge, but deals 35 damage.
7. Zone's second part deals 30 damage, and is feintable later.
Feats: Fiat Lux deals 10 damage again and sped up, but radius reduced to 3 meters. Crossbow brought up to other projectiles. Last laugh made usable on will, even if the pk is an unexecuted corpse. If activated alive, it deals 200 damage to the pk, and she won't be revivable if she dies. If activated while dead, it will also count a revive denial.

Aramusha:

1. Light finisher added. 500ms enchanced light that deals 20 damage. Triggered if used from top after a top attack, or from any side after a side attack. Ends the infinite chain.
2. Side heavy deals 35, and heavy finisher deals only 40 damage, but the finisher is undodgable.
3. Blade blockade can be used to softfeint any heavy, including the zone's second part and the dodge heavies. Furthermore, blade blockade can be held and slowly consumes stamina.
4. Blade blockade top heavy only deals 20 damage, but is undodgable. Ring the bell starts tempest. Kick deals 5 damage. Kick and heavy (automatically top) can be used from the blockade from neutral. Heavy chained into tempest. Kick guarantees nothing unless wallsplats, but unless dodged preemptively, does not guarantee a gb.
5. Top heavy opener slowed a little to make it blockable after a heavy parry.
Feats: Rocksteady replaced with Chilling Stare.


Centurion:

1. The uncharged jab no longer grants anything. Instead, it deals 10 damage plus blinds the target. Recovery is 600ms.
2. Charged jab deals 10 damage, blinds and unbalances the target. 40 damage pin on grounded opponents guaranteed. It tracks dodges on the normal jab's timing. Recovery is 900ms.
3. Chains replaced with an infinite stance (very much like Hitokiri): lights, heavies, throws, the kick and uncharged jabs can be followed up even on miss, by a light, heavy, charged heavy, jab, charged jab or quick throw. Charged jab, charged heavy and quick throw (if countered) ends the chain.
4. Normal heavy deals 22 damage (guaranteed after any parry or the counter knee). Charged heavy deals 30 damage (guaranteed on a light parry). Unblockable charged heavy deals 35 damage and ends the chain (guaranteed on wallsplat). Every heavy is feintable, up to the very end of the animation.
5. The charged heavy pin no longer starts a cutscene, as it does not guarantee anything. Instead, it gets a new effect: it breaks hyperarmor. I think a black indicator could represent this, with maybe the sword getting a black aura.
5. Quickthrow can be inputted by Back+Guardbreak, after any throw or attack, safe for a Charged Heavy, Charged Jab, or any attack that were stopped on block or superior block. Guardbreak softfeint from heavies also replaced with the quick throw.
6. Forward jump heavy deals 30 damage and starts the stance even on miss.
7. The second and third part of the zone are feintable, chargable into pin (and if not fully charged into an unblockable, count as a normal heavy in the stance, and the charged pin is also feintable), and softfeintable into quickthrow. The first part deals 15 damage, down from 25.
Feats: Haymaker should deal only 5 damage. Centurion's march, with the changes, should be an effective alternative.

I think this would be enough to make these characters viable in the current meta.

Okt0g00N
06-06-2019, 07:32 PM
I think you should rework the heroes listed below, as they become more and more useless with every day a new hero made or reworked. I kept new animations out as much as I could. You really shouldn't make us wait entire seasons, as these heroes are useless for more than a year (or from release actually). This is not a full list of course.

Peacekeeper:

1. Heavy-light chain added.
2. Deep gouge and dagger cancel act as second lights in a chain (heavy followup enabled). Dodge attack acts as first heavy in the chain.
3. Dodge attacks are now feintable.
4. Hitting a bleeding opponent restores 7 stamina.
5. Hitting with any heavy attack (including dodge attacks and the second part of the zone) on a bleeding opponent gives extra 10 damage, and turns all the bleed into direct damage (ie a 25 damage heavy on an opponent with 30 bleed deals 65 damage and consumes the bleed). No deep gouge if hitting an already bleeding target.
6. Top heavy finisher is unblockable. It can't be followed up with deep gouge, but deals 35 damage.
7. Zone's second part deals 30 damage, and is feintable later.
Feats: Fiat Lux deals 10 damage again and sped up, but radius reduced to 3 meters. Crossbow brought up to other projectiles. Last laugh made usable on will, even if the pk is an unexecuted corpse. If activated alive, it deals 200 damage to the pk, and she won't be revivable if she dies. If activated while dead, it will also count a revive denial.

Aramusha:

1. Light finisher added. 500ms enchanced light that deals 20 damage. Triggered if used from top after a top attack, or from any side after a side attack. Ends the infinite chain.
2. Side heavy deals 35, and heavy finisher deals only 40 damage, but the finisher is undodgable.
3. Blade blockade can be used to softfeint any heavy, including the zone's second part and the dodge heavies. Furthermore, blade blockade can be held and slowly consumes stamina.
4. Blade blockade top heavy only deals 20 damage, but is undodgable. Ring the bell starts tempest. Kick deals 5 damage. Kick and heavy (automatically top) can be used from the blockade from neutral. Heavy chained into tempest. Kick guarantees nothing unless wallsplats, but unless dodged preemptively, does not guarantee a gb.
5. Top heavy opener slowed a little to make it blockable after a heavy parry.
Feats: Rocksteady replaced with Chilling Stare.


Centurion:

1. The uncharged jab no longer grants anything. Instead, it deals 10 damage plus blinds the target. Recovery is 600ms.
2. Charged jab deals 10 damage, blinds and unbalances the target. 40 damage pin on grounded opponents guaranteed. It tracks dodges on the normal jab's timing. Recovery is 900ms.
3. Chains replaced with an infinite stance (very much like Hitokiri): lights, heavies, throws, the kick and uncharged jabs can be followed up even on miss, by a light, heavy, charged heavy, jab, charged jab or quick throw. Charged jab, charged heavy and quick throw (if countered) ends the chain.
4. Normal heavy deals 22 damage (guaranteed after any parry or the counter knee). Charged heavy deals 30 damage (guaranteed on a light parry). Unblockable charged heavy deals 35 damage and ends the chain (guaranteed on wallsplat). Every heavy is feintable, up to the very end of the animation.
5. The charged heavy pin no longer starts a cutscene, as it does not guarantee anything. Instead, it gets a new effect: it breaks hyperarmor. I think a black indicator could represent this, with maybe the sword getting a black aura.
5. Quickthrow can be inputted by Back+Guardbreak, after any throw or attack, safe for a Charged Heavy, Charged Jab, or any attack that were stopped on block or superior block. Guardbreak softfeint from heavies also replaced with the quick throw.
6. Forward jump heavy deals 30 damage and starts the stance even on miss.
7. The second and third part of the zone are feintable, chargable into pin (and if not fully charged into an unblockable, count as a normal heavy in the stance, and the charged pin is also feintable), and softfeintable into quickthrow. The first part deals 15 damage, down from 25.
Feats: Haymaker should deal only 5 damage. Centurion's march, with the changes, should be an effective alternative.

I think this would be enough to make these characters viable in the current meta.

Such a great post in my opinion, i play at diamond and these changes are very well made, yet a feintable dodge attack on pk will be a bit clunky, let's only let tiandi have that since he is swift and chinese, also instant bleed into direct damage, it might be actually way too good in team fights, like imagine putting a 120 bleed on someone and then landing a heavy, and yes i know that would be unreal, but you get my point, i think it should heal her for 50% of the bleed damage or 25%/ or give her that damage amount in stamina as well/ or even make the heavy deal 50% of that bleed damage as direct damage but the bleeds still remains.

I really don't mean this to be a hate reply, there are just few things missing.

Goat_of_Vermund
06-06-2019, 11:32 PM
Thank you for the answer. I think I suggested stamina regen on bleed damage and bleeding opponent for pk for a while. Now that I did the math, the finisher heavy alone is 45 damage unblockable with the option to softfeint plus all the bleed, so it is indeed too much (and 120 damage is actually not that unreal in a 4v4, the nailbomb with a stealth pk waiting would be brutal, but the sharpen blade would do a very quick work on most enemies too). Dodge attacks being feintable might not be a good idea either, it would be too safe.

I think it might be a good alternative if the pk would regen stamina for dealing bleed damage and hitting bleeding opponents.