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View Full Version : Highlander is now underwhelming



bonecrushems
06-06-2019, 02:45 PM
I just need to get this out here. For those of you like me, who main highlander are probably starting to realise that highlander is becoming very underwhelming now. What I mean by this is he has nearly the worst of everything. I know people will disagree but hear me out;

He has the worst hyper armour in the game.

He is one of the slowest (heavy, lights and running).

Yeah he still has high damage but not that amazing seeing as most characters now have 40dmg heavies while being faster.

He can get gb very late into his heavies (including dash heavy)

Because of the 100ms delay is very hard to cc light attacks unless you predict it perfectly

His feints are very late into his heavy animations leaving him very susceptible to unblockable spam (which happens a lot)

There are some more points and more details for each point that I could get into but Iíll leave it like this for now and see if the community agrees or disagrees with my current view on the matter.

The_B0G_
06-06-2019, 05:11 PM
I agree, I've been pointing out how useless his HA is since his release. It kicks in way too late to be used for trading. Like you said, his damage is good but other heroes can do just as much but quicker, with easier mixups.

His celtic curse is useless against even average defenders. Any move from defensive stance is easily parried, my defensive light attacks get parried often, defensive heavy's are pointless to throw.

I play on console, I don't use him often any more and when I do, it's usually light spammers that get the best of me, he has no answer for 500-400 ms spam. When I fight against HL it's all I have to do to beat them, just hammer my fastest attacks over and over, he has no opportunity short of parrying a fast light to turn the tide.

NHLGoldenKnight
06-06-2019, 07:41 PM
Lol every HL I see in the game kicks butts around him. Not sure how good or bad he is in a duel but in 4v4 he is a god compared to some other heroes.

Unblockable at his command, kick that transitions into grab really quickly ( like 8 out of 10 times he dan grab me right away after dodging his kick) crushing counter on all 3 sides, ha he can trade....guy has a lot.

On the other end we have someone like Conq ( just as example) who has chain attack and shield bash and ....hm nothing else. People ***** when he spams shield bash but he really doesn't have anything else.

So devs couldn't come up with 1-2 extra moves for Conq ( ha on third heavy in a chain, or unblockable or some sort of cool move) but they should improve on hero that already has decent moves and pretty op offensive mode, in 4v4 that is.

Sneakly20
06-06-2019, 08:32 PM
The problem is that he is very matchup dependent.

Defensive needs a buff but offensive needs a nerf in some aspects.

Doesnít matter how weak defensive is, if your character canít beat him out of offensive then youíll get steamrolled. However if you have a character that can consistently beat HL out of offensive stance then he will probably be one of the easiest matchups youíll have.

400ms dodges need to go I believe. His offensive stance needs to be looked at. Possibly rework him to have two different fighting styles that both have guard but normal dodges and stuff.

Liduras
06-06-2019, 10:30 PM
I would rework his offensive stance like this:


Increase his 400 ms dodge recovery to 600 ms
Let him cancel his dodge recovery with an OS light
Add "superior block" property to his OS heavies
Add enough tracking to his kick to hit the players who walk back
Make his kick 600 ms
Make his kick in the OS heavy into kick 500 ms
Make his grab in the kick into grab 500 ms
Reduce the stamina cost of his OS lights from 27 to 20
Let him cancel his kick recovery with an OS light and OS heavy
Make his side OS heavies undodgeable (and obviously blockable) to give him more mindgames


And buff his defensive stance like this:


Make the hyperarmor of his heavies start at 400 ms.
Add "enchanted light attack" property to his light openers (600 ms light attacks are free parry,so it wouldn't be too strong. It is better than giving him 500 ms lights because his "defensive stance" needs to be defensisve. It also makes sense with the way he swings his weapon).

MuscleTech12018
06-06-2019, 10:38 PM
With the fastest top lights and hyper armor, people cry :))) insane ! :))

FlyinBeef
06-07-2019, 12:45 AM
The main his problem is lack of viable offence. 500ms lights and faster heavies with faster HA will make nothing. He need gameplay core changes. Offensive Stance must be really offensive, not defensive stance 2.0 with moveset all made for defense. First what I think about is hard-feintable kick and soft/hard-feintable grab that will easily catch rolls.

NHLGoldenKnight
06-07-2019, 04:44 AM
Well you can charge your heavies in offensive stance and they are unblockable plus you can send them in 3 directions. On top of that you can kick and even if you miss you can follow up with fast grab. If that's not enough to open up opponent's defense than I am not sure what is.

His only issue is being interrupted with fast lights but he has crushing counter in all three directions so there's that.

The_B0G_
06-07-2019, 01:08 PM
With the fastest top lights and hyper armor, people cry :))) insane ! :))

Only his offensive lights are fast, 400 ms like quite a few other heroes light attacks and they can't be thrown from neutral, and do very little damage and use a ton of stamina, they are only used to disrupt attacks, his hyper armor is only in defensive stance and initiates way too late into the animation to use for trading on reaction. You obviously don't play HL.

Nice trolling comment though.

watsonclan335u
06-07-2019, 02:09 PM
[QUOTE=NHLGoldenKnight;14308394]Well you can charge your heavies in offensive stance and they are unblockable plus you can send them in 3 directions.

Charge heavies? If youíre gonna complain about him, at least learn what his capabilities are....

bonecrushems
06-07-2019, 02:24 PM
To charge a heavy implies that you can change the timing of your heavy at will but highlander canít to that, his heavys are set to a certain timing. As for the kick and caber toss those two moves can easily be countered with a side dash attack (which most characters have) and for those that donít have a side dash attack now have fast enough lights to cancel out highlanders OS stance before he can do anything.
A lot of my fights nowadays are just me dodging and waiting to catch them in their recovery time.
Iím not saying highlander needs a massive buff. Maybe a 5 damage buff to his heavies seeing as his DS side heavies deal the same as black priors tooth pick while highlanders weapon being a GREATSWORD.
Switching between DS & OS should be more viable.
His DS lights basically give out a free parry
High level gameplay his CC are very risky to do against heavy attacks and to CC light attacks now with everyones new found super speed is very hard with the 100ms guard switch delay.

Iím just saying, highlanders kit is very outdated now compared to the new meta and characters

The_B0G_
06-07-2019, 03:15 PM
^ my view of HL currently as well. We're in the speed meta, any slow characters without good HA are useless against the newly reworked speed characters, even Raider can light spam now.

NHLGoldenKnight
06-07-2019, 07:45 PM
Lol when I said "charged" heavy I was referring holding R2 to get into offensive stance and from that point on you are ready. I like how community will rather pick on someone's using wrong term (English is technically my third language ) but will ignore obvious things like excellent tools HL has at his disposal. Yeah he can't spam lights but he has crazy range, excellent damage and unblockable or HA on 80% moves he does. Crushing counter all three sides? Kick that transitions into grab?

I have terrible K/D lol, it's under 1 but with HL (used to be my main pre rework) it is 2x higher and if I would stick to playing him or Kensei, I would have K/D close to 2. Again, can't comment on 1v1 since I didn't use HL in duels but in 4v4 he is pure beast.

There are heroes with far less tools than HL and should get something before he does.

The_B0G_
06-08-2019, 02:23 AM
I have him over Rep 20, so I've played him quite a bit, and while you can beat some people, anyone who is good at parrying will make your life hell as a HL. HA doesn't help when your attack takes forever to land, his defensive heavy attacks have HA too late into the animation too, it's easy it knock him out of his heavy with a fast attack.

He has multi directional crushing counter but the damage isn't great on it, a little better than a light attack and hard to pull off when people are only using fast lights, which is nearly everyone.

His Kick/throw is really good, but after one kick/throw mixup followed by the free heavy, you basically have to back off because you have no stamina left, resetting the fight and losing the pressure and initiative.

TLDR: He has all the tools you need to make a good character, HA, crushing counter, unblockables, soft feint unblockable mixup, but every one of those options have an issue with them. He needs a lot of tweaks. As is he is weak overall compared to the higher tier characters.

Armuun_74
06-08-2019, 02:23 PM
I encourage the devs to look at this post.There are alot of good points posted here,im not saying over buff him like the raider,but there really need some more attention payed this class

AmonDarkGod
06-08-2019, 03:36 PM
More salt to the wound. How to easily counter Higlander
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jLf1uqTvl8