PDA

View Full Version : Help: Zero vs. Wildcat



eddiemac0
11-28-2004, 01:44 PM
Yeah, this sounds crazy (should be the other way around), but I can't shoot down an F4F-3 in an A6M2-21. I've been trying for hours (well, weeks) 1-on-1, rookie AI, and the only tactic I've found to work is to let him on to my tail, let him expend all his ammo, and then when he runs away, catch up to and kill him. He's booming and zooming happy as a clown and I can't do anything about it. All the literature is on how to keep out of a turning fight. How do I get him into one?
Thanks.

eddiemac0
11-28-2004, 01:44 PM
Yeah, this sounds crazy (should be the other way around), but I can't shoot down an F4F-3 in an A6M2-21. I've been trying for hours (well, weeks) 1-on-1, rookie AI, and the only tactic I've found to work is to let him on to my tail, let him expend all his ammo, and then when he runs away, catch up to and kill him. He's booming and zooming happy as a clown and I can't do anything about it. All the literature is on how to keep out of a turning fight. How do I get him into one?
Thanks.

SkyChimp
11-28-2004, 01:53 PM
You can't shoot down a ROOKIE AI F4F-3 while flying a A6M2?

Stop using the keyboard and get a joystick.

Serously, the moment he passes you in the head on - TURN. I like to loop onto his tail, the Zeke if grand for that.

Ankanor
11-28-2004, 01:59 PM
This applies to all scenarios (I don't have PF. Yet) Try to gain the upper hand. If you have an advantage, you can force him fight your way. You have better climb, acceleration and speed, right? I would suggest that you try to get above him, not very much(we don't want stiff controls now, do we? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif , just to be above him, with same speed, then try B&Z HIM. You force him turn, right? So, he loses his energy, while you have kept yours roughly at the same level, AND you can regain yours faster(climb and acceleration). Now, when he is low, he's yours.

I hope that helped. Just remember, you don't lure him into turn fight, you FORCE him. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif, just look at my sig pic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ColoradoBBQ
11-28-2004, 02:11 PM
Remember that the Zeroes have a better climb rate than the Wildcat. While he is running away, put your energy into climbing as high as you can without going too slow. By neutralzing his altitude advatange, you can use your higher speed and climb to gain advantage amd boom and zoom the poor sucker.

FA_Maddog
11-28-2004, 02:43 PM
Sounds like your shooting to far away to me. Get closer and shoot 200 meters or less. Turn your icons on to tell how far out you are from the target and then practice, practice, and then practice some more.

VW-IceFire
11-28-2004, 02:49 PM
This is like a wash and rinse procedure against the Wildcat.

1) Approach target (say its QMB and its a head to head merge) from above and dive into his attack. You're gaining speed as you go past him and he's probably trying to turn up on your tail so you use the speed your gaining to leverage yourself against the speed he's loosing to try and follow you.

2) Use the insanely tight turn rate on the Zero (use combat flaps if necessary) to tuck in behind him.

3) Open fire at short range and take him out. Fire, smoke, and control damage are killers and the 20mm cannons on your wings will do the trick. Use the cowl machine guns to pepper him and find your range and then open up with the cannon.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

eddiemac0
11-28-2004, 03:08 PM
Sky Chimp- I've been doing what you said and I can't turn into him.

VW-IceFire- I have to be faster than he is to out-turn him?

OK, clearly I'm doing something drastically wrong as I turn into him. I'm assuming I should be going slow for a tight turn, but I don't want to lose all my energy, so I have to keep my speed up. In other words, I have to find the happy medium.

Am I right so far?

So, what are the ideal conditions (throttle, speed) for turning the Zippo into my bandit? I'm turning a lot slower than he is it seems. He can snap that thing around, but I slowly arc into the head on with him again; how do I change this?

Sorry I wasn't more clear before.

Mozzie_21
11-28-2004, 03:35 PM
Keep climbing. While you can climb with a relatively low speed penalty due to the zeros greater power to weight ratio, when a wildcat climbs it will loose speed drastically and enter the zero's killing zone.

As long as you keep climbing you have the advantage. If he chooses not to follow just shadow him at a slightly higher altitude and when the time is right swoop.

flatlander5
11-28-2004, 03:43 PM
Dont aim for the cockpit or the engine. On the Wildcat the wings and tail section are the weak spots. The other bits have too much armour.

I agree with what was said above. Use your MG at 300-400m to distract him and scare him into an energy loosing move. Get in close (200m) behind and rip his wings off with your 20mm cannons.

If there is more than one of them, take a wing man with you to watch your tail.

Good luck
~Flatlander

Ankanor
11-28-2004, 03:48 PM
Oh, well, The turning can be done with 100%, it should be, if you ask me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, but you cannot outturn him if you are much faster. You must be realtively as fast as he is, and you must be not quicker than say 350 kmh. With speed the controls of the Zero stiffen, so fast is not where you want to be. Keep your speed about 300-350 kmh at the most, when your speed drops below 280 kmh deploy combat flaps, but at about 280 kmh your tin can http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif performs best. Learn the limits of your plane. Stall limit is most important for a slow turn fight.

Athosd
11-28-2004, 06:17 PM
In a one on one against a Wildcat don't be concerned about dumping energy to stay on his tail (not advisable if he has friends in the area). Your Zero has a very low stall speed and will still be manageable at speeds as low as 150km/h.
If you are still having problems out turning him I suggest you review your in game control sensitivity settings for the X and Y joystick axiis. In particular make sure you are getting the full range of input.

Cheers

Athos

eddiemac0
11-28-2004, 06:28 PM
Athos,
I'm getting full response, because I black out or stall trying to turn with him.

Ok, I'm patched to 3.01.

If anyone is willing to make and send me a track of the engagement I described above, please PM me. If not, I suppose I'll figure this thing out eventually on my own.

P.S. I do use the rudder to turn, or does that spill energy too?

Thanks everyone who's bothered to listen to this ridiculousness

RAF74_Buzzsaw
11-28-2004, 08:09 PM
Salute

You might want to check the electronic alignment of your joystick and reset. You may not be getting full deflection of the elevator.

You should be able to outturn a Wildcat easily in a Zero.

Using the rudder is only nessesary to start the turn and in a descending turn.

If your joystick is not the problem, then look at your turn speed. You do not want to turn with the Wildcat at speeds over 325 kph. Ideally you want to maintain a speed of around 250 kph. Start to ease off on your elevator when your speed drops to that level.

rlk
11-28-2004, 08:48 PM
FWIW, here's a track showing a kill via one vertical loop:

http://kirby.homeip.net/files/pf/zero_vs_wc.ntrk

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddiemac0:
Athos,
I'm getting full response, because I black out or stall trying to turn with him.

Ok, I'm patched to 3.01.

If anyone is willing to make and send me a track of the engagement I described above, please PM me. If not, I suppose I'll figure this thing out eventually on my own.

P.S. I do use the rudder to turn, or does that spill energy too?

Thanks everyone who's bothered to listen to this ridiculousness <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

eddiemac0
11-28-2004, 09:13 PM
Rik, haven't seen it yet, but thanks a million.

If anyone finds more, send 'em on over: this noob needs all the help he can get. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rlk
11-28-2004, 09:23 PM
Bah...I should have mentioned that I recorded it with the beta patch (3.02bm), so it may not work for you if you're at 3.01. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddiemac0:
Rik, haven't seen it yet, but thanks a million.

If anyone finds more, send 'em on over: this noob needs all the help he can get. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

eddiemac0
11-28-2004, 10:48 PM
No worries Rik, the track ran fine. And good news I'll stop bothering you all; this little Zippo just bagged himself a cat! I'd been doing the right things, I was just looking for a nice, pretty, firing solution (that I wasn't gonna get). I nicked him a couple times in the initial slashing exchanges, and must've hit something because he slowed down. I chased him down to the deck in a long turning fight, and when he tried to climb out of it, I closed the gap and blew his wing off.
Well, I'm quite pleased with myself, thanks to all who contributed to this little posting adventure.

Thanks

VW-IceFire
11-28-2004, 10:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by eddiemac0:
Sky Chimp- I've been doing what you said and I can't turn into him.

VW-IceFire- I have to be faster than he is to out-turn him?

OK, clearly I'm doing something drastically wrong as I turn into him. I'm assuming I should be going slow for a tight turn, but I don't want to lose all my energy, so I have to keep my speed up. In other words, I have to find the happy medium.

Am I right so far?

So, what are the ideal conditions (throttle, speed) for turning the Zippo into my bandit? I'm turning a lot slower than he is it seems. He can snap that thing around, but I slowly arc into the head on with him again; how do I change this?

Sorry I wasn't more clear before. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not specifically talking about speech actually. Just the fact that because you're diving on him, you have more potential energy (therefore speed) and you can spend that energy to get the most out of your Zero's turn rate. Its not that your going fast but that you're using energy to manuver into a superior position behind.

Glad to know it worked for you! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif