View Full Version : Raider - My opinion

06-02-2019, 10:02 AM
The only thing i would change on raider at the moment is the HA on the third heavy. This needs to be nerfed for a shorter time period. Only because theres room for punishment in the third heavy animation if a raider chooses to spam heavy.

Other than that he is solid as he is, he can compete at top level and with newer hero's, thats what the rework is intended for.

Ive been playing duels a lot recently at the top 1% and i have Valk character mastery. Fighting raider is hard and thats good, his moves are fast and the stunning tap is annoying but i wouldn't want it nerfed. Its because its so fast and unreactable that makes you change your play style. If you are truly good at the game you will adapt, because its so fast it forces you to read every frame and predict when its coming within the standard raider mix ups and feints. Being able to do this with a high % success rate & knowing what your opponents going to do is also game mastery, I have vastly improved my skill level due to this mindset.

If things were nerfed it would go back to the way things were, where stunning tap can be countered easily. Boring...

This is only in duel and brawl. I have found in a 4 v 4 situation dealing with more than 2 raiders at any one time is an instant death sentence, and revenge mode is truly nullified. Single pick heros needs to be a thing or make it that stunning tap doesnt work if another raider is in proximity. Not too sure.

06-02-2019, 10:26 AM
To sup up they made the raider so casuals have a hard time with him and gives vets a good challenge.

06-02-2019, 04:41 PM
The problem with Raider isnt his kit himself. It is his numbers.
He needs a dmg nerf, like really.

Dodge GB is also a too good defensive moove.

I dont understand why he got a 400ms indicator on a 500ms moove too, wth is that ?

I can hear Raider is strong but fine in 1v1. But in 4v4 he is really game breaking atm.

I am not at Master level like you but at Diamond 4 which is still good, i only play 4v4 and on ps4 and imho his numbers needs to be reduced.

06-02-2019, 05:00 PM
I'd say his stam damage and stunning tap indicator timings should be fixed, dodge gb removed that way as valk I can punish him on the finisher if I chose to gb when he dodges. Stamina in general should be getting a change soon, so I'd say if they change anything fix the indicator for the tap and remove dodge gb, and that would be fine.

06-02-2019, 06:32 PM
The problem with raider isn't any one thing about his kit. It's that it was a fundementally poor "rework" because it didn't make his kit any different playstyle wise. It just made him better at everything he already did. No one is saying that we want raider or any other hero to not have viable mix ups for offense. What we don't want is giving someone the ability to win every trade easily with the ability to consistently keep your stamina down.

I would have loved if they leaned into making him more of a grappler type hero instead of your generic trading machine. Heck, i'm sure people would be less upset with the straight power increase he got if his animations actually were clear and understandable. It just feels really terrible to fight an average raider. Because even if you DO manage to kill him you pretty much had to out play him a lot harder than he had to do to you. At least with heros like Warden the bash mix up games he has require some kind of thought process. With raider you just mash out. (i'm aware this doesn't work against great players. But we're talking average play here.)

It's like, why would I bother to learn how to play a more complex hero when the payout for simpler heros is generally at best the same and at worst much better than the complex heros.

06-03-2019, 03:52 PM
I find it odd how with LB, they wanted to keep his "Identity". But with raider they made him into a high damage dealing, trading, mixup intensive counterattacker. But LB can't get any offence improvement because they dont want to change his "identity".

06-03-2019, 03:55 PM
I spose that would be a thing i personally like. Bringing a E tier hero like valk and beating the s tier hero at any level of play. I get that some may not want to put in the effort

06-03-2019, 06:52 PM
I spose that would be a thing i personally like. Bringing a E tier hero like valk and beating the s tier hero at any level of play. I get that some may not want to put in the effort

Don't confuse my post as a lack of effort please. I absolutely enjoy playing heros that require you to put a lot of thought into using them effectively. It's why Black prior is my favorite hero and shaolin before BP released. I'm just saying the pay out for mastering a harder hero should always be better than a simpler hero. The advantage of playing a simpler hero is to have less to worry about when fighting others but having to work harder in most cases.

The raider of old was fine in the damage department because you had to tactically swap with his chained zone and know when not to because it can still be parried. You had to know how to master his throw distance in order to get those meaty wall splats for high damage. etc. He still wasn't complex back then but you still had to actually try to play smart. New raider takes all of that out of the equasion. You don't need to learn how to use his kit to it's fullest to roll people. And people who DO learn how to do so are even more powerful.

Mastering how to use Valk's kit doesn't give you comparable pay out values. At best you can make space for yourself and maybe land a decent punish with pin/CC. Mastering shaolin doesn't let you kill people quicker. It just lets you chip people more reliably. etc. I don't roll with raider all the time despite being a meta slave now because it's not fun to constantly push people over with little effort. It's also why Warden is always my fall back hero. His bash is incredibly strong but I still have to use it some what smartely in a fight or I get GBed for a lot of damage.

I've actually swapped to using Orochi against band wagon raiders because his dodge attacks consistently punish bad raiders on reaction. It's caused quite a few to quit mid match.

06-04-2019, 12:38 AM
I spose that would be a thing i personally like. Bringing a E tier hero like valk and beating the s tier hero at any level of play. I get that some may not want to put in the effort

As Raime already said, that's not the point.
Among the 8 heroes i only play myself you can find Glad, Valk, Musha and Shinobi (the 4 others are Warden, Shaman, Shaolin and Kensei). So i mostly play underdog heroes and i like the feeling it give to outplay someone using Conq or Zerk for example.

But this is only Something personnal. It doesnt mean the game should not be balanced.

Not later than 2 hours ago i had a good FH session playing Glad, i manage to pull off a lots of deflect but hey, Raider just ignore Glad deflect with the side HA heavy.. so is this normal that someone can take advantage of me despite i just outplay him ? No.

Raider is now very very simple AND effective to use. This is not a good thing.