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View Full Version : Make All Duels RANKED



TWICHIE.
05-31-2019, 03:41 PM
Remove "Ranked Duel BETA" and make all duels affect rank. This would help with matchmaking time and make every duel more exciting. Thoughts?

FlyinBeef
05-31-2019, 04:21 PM
Agreed

Vakris_One
05-31-2019, 04:28 PM
No because not everybody wants to get ultra sweaty when playing duel. Sometimes you just want to chill or take a character out for a test run. You shouldn't ever be forcing a game mode onto a player, the player should have the freedom to choose the mode they want to play.

First the foremost they need to stop calling it Ranked Duel "BETA". The beta period for this ended a long, long time ago and Ubi need to stop hiding behind the "but it's just beta" tagline as an automatic excuse for the poor state of this mode. Secondly, and probably most importantly, they need to disable bots in ranked duel. As of Season 10 myself and a few people I know have been put into a match against a bot more times than we have been put against a human player. And it actually counts a bot match as part of your ranking calculation, which is ridiculous for a PvP ranked mode.

There is no reason that bots should even exist in a ranked mode. And every time the game puts a player in with a bot match that's one less player in the matchmaking pool thus increasing the already long wait times. Remove bot matches in ranked and you'll improve wait times as well as the credibility of your ranking system, which tbh is a joke right now.

rocks.cl
05-31-2019, 04:54 PM
Yep, the mirrored queue just makes impossible to find a ranked game at all in most regions, if theres gonna be a viable way to play duels just make it a default ranked, theres no hurt in knowing how good/bad one really is

FlyinBeef
05-31-2019, 05:33 PM
No because not everybody wants to get ultra sweaty when playing duel. Sometimes you just want to chill or take a character out for a test run. You shouldn't ever be forcing a game mode onto a player, the player should have the freedom to choose the mode they want to play.

First the foremost they need to stop calling it Ranked Duel "BETA". The beta period for this ended a long, long time ago and Ubi need to stop hiding behind the "but it's just beta" tagline as an automatic excuse for the poor state of this mode. Secondly, and probably most importantly, they need to disable bots in ranked duel. As of Season 10 myself and a few people I know have been put into a match against a bot more times than we have been put against a human player. And it actually counts a bot match as part of your ranking calculation, which is ridiculous for a PvP ranked mode.

There is no reason that bots should even exist in a ranked mode. And every time the game puts a player in with a bot match that's one less player in the matchmaking pool thus increasing the already long wait times. Remove bot matches in ranked and you'll improve wait times as well as the credibility of your ranking system, which tbh is a joke right now.

They can play relaxed and just don't think about rank. Also there can be rank for every character and you choose character before searching, it will be good thing because you won't lose your rank if took new character.

SwellChemosabe
05-31-2019, 08:10 PM
So long as you slap the word "ranked" in the title of any game mode in any game people will always try their hardest to win and will never "play relaxed". Ranked is a playlist for people who want to play competitively and see where they stand in skill against the rest of the community. Regular and ranked duels should remain separate. At the very least its in the best interest of the game itself that regular duels never be removed. There are some players who only ever play duels and it would only burden them further to constantly worry about having to win.

Now you might say "well if they dont care about the rank then who does it hurt?" To which I say it hurts the players that do. Think about it: a player who plays competitively being matched up with someone who couldn't care less. The player who doesn't care isn't motivated to try and as a result doesn't give their 100% to the match. Not only is that unfair to the player looking to win and have that intense match up, it also hurts them. They're essentially being given a free win, which will reflect on their rank. For the better? No, their rank may go up but their experience and skill wont, then when they get matched up with someone significantly better than them, all because of a percentile difference, they wont be having a very fun time.

If you want to duel for the fun of it there is a regular duel mode that has been there since day one and it works just fine.

EvoX.
05-31-2019, 08:11 PM
As an avid duelist, I would love this change. Much better matchmaking times, more chance for those seasonal ornaments, a feeling of actual progress in a PvP game. However, that is ignoring the fact that the current ranking system is completely broken and you can pretty much only regress. First and foremost they'd need to fix it, which is iffy teritory for Ubisoft, and then make it so it's an actually rewarding experience without it being too lenient or too harsh on your rank. I honestly don't think this dev team can do that.

But anyway, this just another thing that will never be looked at or considered to be implemented.

Knight_Raime
05-31-2019, 09:26 PM
Disagree. Ranked is garbage and needs to be fixed first and foremost. Second you're taking away the capability for someone to play casually in duels. SBMM is a plague upon games as is and this already hampers enjoyment for people who just want to play. Doubling down on that by forcing all duels to be ranked is essentially taking both bad parts of duels currently and nuking them to make it worse just to "maybe" help matchmaking times.

FlyinBeef
05-31-2019, 11:16 PM
Disagree. Ranked is garbage and needs to be fixed first and foremost. Second you're taking away the capability for someone to play casually in duels. SBMM is a plague upon games as is and this already hampers enjoyment for people who just want to play. Doubling down on that by forcing all duels to be ranked is essentially taking both bad parts of duels currently and nuking them to make it worse just to "maybe" help matchmaking times.

Of course ranked needs to be fixed, but after fix it will be really good idea to make all duels ranked. If you want to play casually then who forbids you?

rottmeister
05-31-2019, 11:26 PM
No thank you, I'd rather not have to calm down after every match because of the cheese all 'ranked' opponents pull. I don't play PVP duels often but after having played ranked duels for an entire evening (I really wanted that yellow/red palette for Nuxia) I can say that casual duel and ranked duel are a night and day difference. One is basically a normal duel and the other is a bash spam fest filled with cheese, salt and players with extremely high latency that 'light spam'.

Playing ranked duel for an evening made me realise that I wouldn't want to touch it ever again. The heroes I hate fighting most are Aramusha and Shaolin yet somehow fighting them that day gave me the most pleasure I had that evening because neither of them were spamming while having a high latency or were trying to pull out cheesy tactics. In hindsight none of the rewards I got were worth having to face the personification of the devil in shiny armor EVERY match. My first ever ranked match was against a Tiandi with around 100 ping that kept doing dodge lights. It was REALLY fun seeing him teleport all over my screen... Even though I still managed to win (40 dmg deflects ftw), I nearly threw my controller into a wall out of anger. I've never broken anything before (on purpose), it takes a lot to anger me but that was literally hell.

Casual duels are more laid back and fun. Players don't fish for ledges or pull out some BS tactic like that "kiting strat" from a while back. I don't want the casual and competitive scenes to collide.

Sorry for the rant...

- Season 8 "Master" Nuxia signing off...

FlyinBeef
05-31-2019, 11:42 PM
No thank you, I'd rather not have to calm down after every match because of the cheese all 'ranked' opponents pull. I don't play PVP duels often but after having played ranked duels for an entire evening (I really wanted that yellow/red palette for Nuxia) I can say that casual duel and ranked duel are a night and day difference. One is basically a normal duel and the other is a bash spam fest filled with cheese, salt and players with extremely high latency that 'light spam'.

Playing ranked duel for an evening made me realise that I wouldn't want to touch it ever again. The heroes I hate fighting most are Aramusha and Shaolin yet somehow fighting them that day gave me the most pleasure I had that evening because neither of them were spamming while having a high latency or were trying to pull out cheesy tactics. In hindsight none of the rewards I got were worth having to face the personification of the devil in shiny armor EVERY match. My first ever ranked match was against a Tiandi with around 100 ping that kept doing dodge lights. It was REALLY fun seeing him teleport all over my screen... Even though I still managed to win (40 dmg deflects ftw), I nearly threw my controller into a wall out of anger. I've never broken anything before (on purpose), it takes a lot to anger me but that was literally hell.

Casual duels are more laid back and fun. Players don't fish for ledges or pull out some BS tactic like that "kiting strat" from a while back. I don't want the casual and competitive scenes to collide.

Sorry for the rant...

- Season 8 "Master" Nuxia signing off...

Such cheesy laggy players who abuse bash spam and ledges just will be (grand)master for example and people who want duels more "honorable" just will stay in gold/diamond for example and they won't meet each other so nothing bad will happen.
Now players separate themselves for casual and ranked duels, after all duels will be ranked the matchmaking will separate people.

Vakris_One
05-31-2019, 11:44 PM
Of course ranked needs to be fixed, but after fix it will be really good idea to make all duels ranked. If you want to play casually then who forbids you?
I'd say all the cheese tactics, super safe strats and meta picks do a very good job of preventing you from playing casually and actually enjoying yourself. Competitive 1v1s in For Honor are not fun dude, come on.

What will happen is you will get quicker matches for a grand total of 2-3 days and then all the players that just want to play chill duels will leave. Then activity will be right back to where it is now. If you don't want to wait so long for a duel you can always pop into the non-ranked mode and see what you get. Forcing the ranked mode on a playerbase ain't it chief.

EvoX.
06-01-2019, 12:14 AM
I'd say all the cheese tactics, super safe strats and meta picks do a very good job of preventing you from playing casually and actually enjoying yourself. Competitive 1v1s in For Honor are not fun dude, come on.

This is a myth based on assumptions. Ranked and non-ranked have almost no disparity when it comes to heroes picked and playstyles used. Ranked is not more populated with S-tiers than regular is, people don't try to time out with health leads. You are thinking of custom scrims by the pros and actual tournaments, not this game's ranked duels. Prior was just as common in ranked as he was in non-ranked during Season 9, so were heroes like Nobushi. The only difference I've noticed from personal experience and watching others play Ranked is that you will rarely see someone take a random rep 1 hero, which... why would anyone you even want that? I don't want to be experimented on, I want a duel. Take a look at the leaderboard as well. Most of the current GM's are not even the players you know by name that have a higher chance of doing the unenjoyable competitive play you described. Hell, my longest duel ever (17 minutes) was in non-ranked. It is completely dependant on the individual, not the mode they play. Everyone wants to win, everyone in non-ranked tries their hardest as well, it's just that the difference between ''I want to win'' and I really want to win'' is a playstyle that almost nobody will resort to.

Also, Ubisoft enforced the quit penalty on any game mode, a 15-minute prohibition from playig the game, something that to me is just as competitively inspired as making duels ranked would be. MK11 does not have restrictions on playing the game on a quit out, and that game is way more competitive than For Honor. How on earth is that acceptible, but meaningles icons above your banner aren't?

I believe this is something that would invigorate duels and permanently increase its population size. People, like always, would play how they want to play. Not a lot of players are so easily swayed and instantly intoxicated by the word ''ranked'', a trigger mechanism activating in their brains that makes them sweat profusely and chip health lead for the win while providing the worst experience ever for them and their opponent. Come on, now.

Vakris_One
06-01-2019, 01:52 AM
This is a myth based on assumptions. Ranked and non-ranked have almost no disparity when it comes to heroes picked and playstyles used.
And yet every time I play ranked people tend to whip out the super safe picks and strategies way more than I see them used in normal duels. And this is something that many others on here will also tell you so it's not as black and white as "my word is more relevant than yours".



Ranked is not more populated with S-tiers than regular is, people don't try to time out with health leads. You are thinking of custom scrims by the pros and actual tournaments, not this game's ranked duels. Prior was just as common in ranked as he was in non-ranked during Season 9, so were heroes like Nobushi.
Yeah, I've played against Prior's and Ara's and Wardens and Nobushi's and etc in both ranked and normal duels. Hero representation isn't the sole significant factor nor even the most significant. It's how people play and their focus on being competitive. There is a clear difference in intensity and intent to win at all costs in ranked that is much less prevalent in casual duels.

That's why the pick rates had/have no relevant correlation whatsoever to the win rates between normal and ranked duels.



The only difference I've noticed from personal experience and watching others play Ranked is that you will rarely see someone take a random rep 1 hero, which... why would anyone you even want that? I don't want to be experimented on, I want a duel. Take a look at the leaderboard as well. Most of the current GM's are not even the players you know by name that have a higher chance of doing the unenjoyable competitive play you described.
Tell that to the odd comp level player I have happened upon like Ravelord sporting his Conqueror and feeling in the competitive mood. But that's rather besides the point. Firstly, there's actually not that many tournament level players left nowadays, let alone ones that feel like being dedicated enough to maintaining GM rank in a game that hasn't had a relevant competitive scene for a very long time.

Secondly, you mentioned it yourself. You won't see anyone taking a low repped hero just to give them a shakedown run or perhaps doing random picks for fun. So where are all these players supposed to go if all that is available to them is ranked duel? Do you expect people to just accept that they will be heavily penalised for daring to play outside of their main? Not to mention that on the other end you'll have players looking for a competitive environment who keep having to curb stomp casuals out for fun. It's not a good experience for either side.



Hell, my longest duel ever (17 minutes) was in non-ranked. It is completely dependant on the individual, not the mode they play. Everyone wants to win, everyone in non-ranked tries their hardest as well, it's just that the difference between ''I want to win'' and I really want to win'' is a playstyle that almost nobody will resort to.

Also, Ubisoft enforced the quit penalty on any game mode, a 15-minute prohibition from playig the game, something that to me is just as competitively inspired as making duels ranked would be. MK11 does not have restrictions on playing the game on a quit out, and that game is way more competitive than For Honor. How on earth is that acceptible, but meaningles icons above your banner aren't?

I believe this is something that would invigorate duels and permanently increase its population size. People, like always, would play how they want to play. Not a lot of players are so easily swayed and instantly intoxicated by the word ''ranked'', a trigger mechanism activating in their brains that makes them sweat profusely and chip health lead for the win while providing the worst experience ever for them and their opponent. Come on, now.
You're being a tad hyperbolic while skipping over the fundamental purpose of a ranked mode. At the end of the day people come to ranked specifically to be challenged and to push themselves and see where they rank. Literally nobody hops into ranked with the mindset of wanting a more casual atmosphere to warm up with a few games or maybe try out a hero they want to experiment with.

If you alienate those people who want a casual duel experience by choice you won't be improving wait times for ranked duel in the long run. After a short honeymoon period you'll just end up with the same long wait times but you will have chased off a large portion of the casual duel playerbase for good. And quite a few competitive players will go as well after they become bored of stomping on 10-15 casuals for every 1 competitive player they meet.

And finally we'll all be stuck with the only available duel mode as this mausoleum piece, which will be to absolutely nobody's benefit.

Hormly
06-01-2019, 01:56 AM
Agreed. We need to condense a few game modes

Knight_Raime
06-01-2019, 03:18 AM
Of course ranked needs to be fixed, but after fix it will be really good idea to make all duels ranked. If you want to play casually then who forbids you?

There is either a language barrier here or you don't grasp the fundamentals of the situation.
Telling me to play "casually" against people who WILL try to play sweaty vs me doesn't fix the issue that is being brought up by Vakris, Rott, and I.

Yes, people can try their butt off in either mode. But it's more likely to happen in an environment that encourages that behavior. AKA ranked.
I already have a terrible time playing this game because the skill based match making throws people at me who are just as good or better often enough as is.

Forcing ranked for all duels would give me that experience consistently. Am I saying I want to fight blue berries all the time? No. I do enjoy a challenge.
But I don't ALWAYS want to be trying to fight at my best. I don't do games competitively. Again, by making Duel's ranked by default you'd be forcing that experience.

If it was forced i'd guarantee you'd kill off the population for the mode even more. The only upside to this that i'm seeing is an attempt to make the population of ranked duel better.
Do you know what's a better way to do that without pissing people off? Fix what's wrong with ranked. Then heavily encourage people to try ranked often.

rottmeister
06-01-2019, 09:14 AM
Such cheesy laggy players who abuse bash spam and ledges just will be (grand)master for example and people who want duels more "honorable" just will stay in gold/diamond for example and they won't meet each other so nothing bad will happen.
Now players separate themselves for casual and ranked duels, after all duels will be ranked the matchmaking will separate people.

The thing is I pretty much only faced such players in ranked. My first ever match as a yet-to-be-ranked player made me lose my marbles. The only reason I kept playing was because of a reward I wanted and after I got it I never looked back at ranked. Most matches consisted of meta picks and spam. In the 15 matches where you're not ranked yet I've had to deal with so much cheese it's insane: bash spamming wardens and conqs, light spammers with high ping, people who exclusively want ledges and wait there and much more. I'm just glad I didn't experience any unlock tech apart from maybe 1 WL that used it.

Even though I won the majority of the matches I wasn't experiencing any fun. I would've rather written an entire language portfolio in one evening than to have played ranked duels.

The only reason that I kept playing it was for that 1 color palette and bragging rights to my friends
If there weren't any rewards I would've never touched ranked and most likely I will never touch it again. At that point I was completely done with this game. I took a short break (barely played in BP's season) and I just don't give a f**** anymore whether I win or lose now. Now I'll occasionally come online to do some breach PVE (because teammates ruined it for me: AFK'ers, DC'ers, people who deliberately play bad, avoid revives and then DC and people that keep jumping from a zipline, killing themselves during THE ENTIRE MATCH) or dominion PVP.

Off topic: this year's For Honor E3 presentation better be good. I'm getting to the point where I want to quit this game.

DefiledDragon
06-02-2019, 12:15 AM
Nah. Ranked game modes in all games, not just FH, are largely populated with dedicated players who will exploit every ounce of cheese to earn the victory (not saying everyone who plays ranked is like that, but many are). If you made the only duel option ranked by default, I guarantee you would see a significant drop off in the number of people playing duels.

xIBlacKmaNIx
06-02-2019, 10:10 AM
Agreed - every duel should be ranked and your rank shouldn't be reset after a season. Thats the real reason the ranked beta has such a low population, whats the point in grinding for a rank if it gets reset.

On and winner stays lobbies should be a thing...

froggy.style
06-03-2019, 08:58 AM
i fully agree - make all duels rank. who cares if your rank is low. it would make for better competition.