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View Full Version : The perfect way to fix Hitokiris' HA



Baggin_
05-30-2019, 09:49 PM
The best way to fix Hitokiris' Hyper Armor is going to be giving it to her when she releases her attack.

Doing this will make it so she has to make correct reads as to what her opponent is doing. She won't be able to mindlessly throw out a heavy on indicator while still making her heavies viable.

This to me is the best way to go about it. Personally I'd prefer only Shugoki having hyper armor on his initials, but since Hitokiri was designed around it, she needs to have it.

DaytimeRaider
05-31-2019, 04:43 AM
The best way to fix Hitokiris' Hyper Armor is going to be giving it to her when she releases her attack.

Doing this will make it so she has to make correct reads as to what her opponent is doing. She won't be able to mindlessly throw out a heavy on indicator while still making her heavies viable.

This to me is the best way to go about it. Personally I'd prefer only Shugoki having hyper armor on his initials, but since Hitokiri was designed around it, she needs to have it.

Her hyper armor definitely needs looked at since she trades every attack with her heavies. I think it's fine for her having it but it shouldn't be recieved so early on into the heavy. the fact that she can wait for an opponent to throw out attacks and trade on reaction is a bit rediculous. That being said though I do also believe she needs buffed elsewhere in here kit because she is a very mediocre to average hero at best. It's just her hyper armor heavies that actually make her somewhat competitive in 4's. I really don't enjoy how Ubi designs a whole character around one single part of a kit. hitokiri has her hyperarmor heavies, raider has his stunning tap now, beserker has his feints and hyper armor. the list goes on and on. I really wish Ubi would start designing characters around an overall playstyle rather than specific moves or properties.

Cyroy95
05-31-2019, 04:52 AM
The main problem with this change would be that her hyper-armour would become somewhat redundant. On a proper prediction you can get basically a heavy punish for a heavy with some damage received back in turn instead of the parry into light. The problem is though, uncharted heavies are 30dmg, many people will out-trade you on a heavy exchange.

But on the flipside it's safer to try and parry a light instead of trading into it as the slightest misread will get you knocked out of your heavy. And she still has nothing else in her kit to balance such a nerf out, as everything can be back-dodged, into rolled out of.

I understand and agree that her hyper armour is a problem, but I think that before touching that the rest of her kit needs tweaking, the timings and speeds changed, more chains (especially from zone and dash-heavy) and better tracking before nerfing her only viable offense.

One of the few heroes that needs a rework on release, worst designed hero so far.

DaytimeRaider
05-31-2019, 05:03 AM
The main problem with this change would be that her hyper-armour would become somewhat redundant. On a proper prediction you can get basically a heavy punish for a heavy with some damage received back in turn instead of the parry into light. The problem is though, uncharted heavies are 30dmg, many people will out-trade you on a heavy exchange.

But on the flipside it's safer to try and parry a light instead of trading into it as the slightest misread will get you knocked out of your heavy. And she still has nothing else in her kit to balance such a nerf out, as everything can be back-dodged, into rolled out of.

I understand and agree that her hyper armour is a problem, but I think that before touching that the rest of her kit needs tweaking, the timings and speeds changed, more chains (especially from zone and dash-heavy) and better tracking before nerfing her only viable offense.

One of the few heroes that needs a rework on release, worst designed hero so far.

I definitely hear you out there. She is kinda a problem hero. She is this new hero that isn't very used for being new. she has some good characteristics (hyper armor) but they dont compliment the rest of her kit and kinda make her a one trick pony. I wish that they would fix the back dodge problem and tracking with some of the chains and then change the hyper armor timing in one change. I think it would be fair to adjust the hyper armor if they at the same time fixed many other of her problems in her kit.

Knight_Raime
05-31-2019, 09:30 PM
Or they could just move it back by 200ms so that she can't attempt to parry on light timing to trade with neutral thrown heavies.

Baggin_
05-31-2019, 10:38 PM
Or they could just move it back by 200ms so that she can't attempt to parry on light timing to trade with neutral thrown heavies.

Nah, then it'd be too much like Shugoki and warlord and whatnot. Putting it on a release timing would give her a unique trait to it. Then she'd have to make some reads if she wants to trade with lite timing.

Knight_Raime
06-01-2019, 03:56 AM
Nah, then it'd be too much like Shugoki and warlord and whatnot. Putting it on a release timing would give her a unique trait to it. Then she'd have to make some reads if she wants to trade with lite timing.

Goki can already trade with neutral heavies as is so i'm not sure what you're getting at.
The proposed change fixes the current issue of her trading into indicators without severely nerfing her armor like your suggestion.
She also frankly should get HA on her comboed heavies too.

Baggin_
06-01-2019, 02:43 PM
Goki can already trade with neutral heavies as is so i'm not sure what you're getting at.
The proposed change fixes the current issue of her trading into indicators without severely nerfing her armor like your suggestion.
She also frankly should get HA on her comboed heavies too.

Making her get ha when she releases an attack would not severely nerf it, it would just change the timing and how you use it. She's too much like Shugoki and anyother character that has hyper armor on their initial attacks because it all works the same (she just gets here way before). Changing it this way would give her a unique feel instead of a generic one. She's kind of a lazily designed character so anything to make her not feel so basic would be a plus.

DFQN1
06-01-2019, 02:58 PM
Her hyper armor definitely needs looked at since she trades every attack with her heavies. I think it's fine for her having it but it shouldn't be recieved so early on into the heavy. the fact that she can wait for an opponent to throw out attacks and trade on reaction is a bit rediculous. That being said though I do also believe she needs buffed elsewhere in here kit because she is a very mediocre to average hero at best. It's just her hyper armor heavies that actually make her somewhat competitive in 4's. I really don't enjoy how Ubi designs a whole character around one single part of a kit. hitokiri has her hyperarmor heavies, raider has his stunning tap now, beserker has his feints and hyper armor. the list goes on and on. I really wish Ubi would start designing characters around an overall playstyle rather than specific moves or properties.

I second this.

Knight_Raime
06-01-2019, 06:22 PM
Making her get ha when she releases an attack would not severely nerf it, it would just change the timing and how you use it. She's too much like Shugoki and anyother character that has hyper armor on their initial attacks because it all works the same (she just gets here way before). Changing it this way would give her a unique feel instead of a generic one. She's kind of a lazily designed character so anything to make her not feel so basic would be a plus.

It would make it much harder for her to trade into her offense which is the point of her having HA from neutral.

The only hero that can be rightfully compared with her is goki. And his HA on his neutral 500ms light let's him do what hitokiri is doing now which is trading on indicator. The difference is its a lot riskier for goki to do so because it's a light. Meaning it's less safe and a bigger punish if baited. Not to mention because it's a light the trade likely isn't worth it initially.

The problem from a mechanical stand point with hitokiris armor is she's trading on reaction with a heavy that allows her to trade with other heavies on reaction. Pushing her HA back by 200ms fixes that. Meaning on a read she can still trade in on a light or heavy. But not a heavy on reaction to indicator.

Youre trying to address that issue along with making her HA unique. There is no reason to make it that difficult to trade in from neutral when the rest of her kit is lacking. And she'd feel unique as a whole if the rest of her kit actually worked for her.

MCBooma16
06-01-2019, 08:19 PM
I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. Something that forces you to fight a character differently can be good. I think, with the way Hitokiri's HA is right now, it makes him/her predictable. Try and get in their heads. If they're seriously throwing out random heavies on reaction, simply feint your heavies and parry/deflect theirs.... I do it all the time, and when going against a Hitokiri who's been mindlessly trying to trade with a neutral heavy, it's easier to punish them.

It gets harder when they start charging their heavies and/or feinting to GB, or even using the kicks and sweeps.

But keep in mind, when in a 1v1 against a mediocre Hitokiri, they're always just gonna want to toss out random heavies. If you can catch on and forget about YOUR offense for a sec and pay attention, you'll beat them by constantly baiting and parrying those random heavies.

Nurgle_Devotee
06-02-2019, 03:59 PM
I don't necessarily think that is a bad thing. Something that forces you to fight a character differently can be good. I think, with the way Hitokiri's HA is right now, it makes him/her predictable. Try and get in their heads. If they're seriously throwing out random heavies on reaction, simply feint your heavies and parry/deflect theirs.... I do it all the time, and when going against a Hitokiri who's been mindlessly trying to trade with a neutral heavy, it's easier to punish them.

It gets harder when they start charging their heavies and/or feinting to GB, or even using the kicks and sweeps.

But keep in mind, when in a 1v1 against a mediocre Hitokiri, they're always just gonna want to toss out random heavies. If you can catch on and forget about YOUR offense for a sec and pay attention, you'll beat them by constantly baiting and parrying those random heavies.

The point of HA is to play in a more agressive manner (dev vision) but as you say you "just" have to turtle to try to punish a BAD Hitokiri. That defeat the whole process especially when a somewhat "good" player will not throw random **** at you and will just punish you with their HA. In other words, turtle against you