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EURO_Snoopy
08-28-2005, 02:52 AM
SeafireLIV has submited a quick review of BOBII, based on only a day and a half of play he delivers a comprehensive and well balanced review.

The Review (http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/GMX%20BOB/reviews/seafireliv.htm)

If you would like to comment or submit a review of your own please visit our forum (http://airwarfare.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=687)

Friendly_flyer
08-28-2005, 03:21 AM
So taking off is harder than in FB/PF? Now I start realising why educating pilots took so long...

F0_Dark_P
08-28-2005, 03:40 AM
The Review
thanx for the the review, now i really want to try it and no demo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
08-28-2005, 04:44 AM
Thanks for the Heads up

Sigi_di_Capri
08-28-2005, 05:04 AM
There are 2 movies showing take off and general aircraft operation and airbattle here:

http://www.gamershell.com/news/24265.html

Grey_Mouser67
08-28-2005, 09:18 AM
Does anyone know why the CTD's?

I intend to buy it, but the CTD might make me change my mind unless I knew why and could do something about it.

3.JG51_BigBear
08-28-2005, 09:22 AM
It looks like they're already working on a patch to solve a lot of the initial problems. I'd wait to hear what happens in the next week or so before buying it.

ashley2005
08-28-2005, 10:30 AM
ye ive got it there are a few problems so far witch should of been easily spotable ..but all round it is a good game harder dogfighting than pf ..and the ai are better ..hundreds of planes on screen rules as you here the engines of spits and me109s and other planes roaring past and i mean ROARING !!

Kuna15
08-28-2005, 10:42 AM
Nice review... also I have seen BoB_intercept video, and my impressions are that game is certainly worth a try.

.303s are, IMO, more effective than our .303s in game, and BoB VoW's bomber gunners are less lethal than FB ones.

But what I really want to know is there a tactical side of the sim? Something like in original Rowan's sim? Some kind of tactical screen and we are in control of air forces on one side?

Chuck_Older
08-28-2005, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Kuna15:

But what I really want to know is there a tactical side of the sim? Something like in original Rowan's sim? Some kind of tactical screen and we are in control of air forces on one side?

That's Strategy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The tactical screen is your windsheild. And yes, it has been reported that picking your strategy is possible, although it can be turned off

Jester_159th
08-28-2005, 12:50 PM
That sounds very promising, but as soon as anyone mentions MSFS2004 type ground textures (especially in a combat sim that can involve dogfights at low level etc) I go cold.

I think I've been spoiled by IL2 and LOMAC in the eyecandy dept.

If they release a demo I'll definately have a look at it. If the immersion factor and strategy\ tactical areas of the sim are good enough, and the FM's are as complex as Seafire suggests I might be prepared to forgive the poor ground textures etc. But without the opportunity to try it myself first, I'll probably give it a miss.

PBNA-Boosher
08-28-2005, 01:31 PM
Harder doesn't mean realistic. In real life taking off is pretty easy, and fighting the plane for control shouldn't happen. Trimming isn't that hard.

Obi_Kwiet
08-28-2005, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Harder doesn't mean realistic. In real life taking off is pretty easy, and fighting the plane for control shouldn't happen. Trimming isn't that hard.

Thank you! Finally someone who gets it!

MichaelMar
08-28-2005, 03:07 PM
Yep, those videos sold me. I really think the FM will be WAYYYYY more realistic then IL2. For the planes not only will be harder to take off/land but combat will require much more skill and plane controle.

Went to EBGames today and placed a preorder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

JG7_Rall
08-28-2005, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
Harder doesn't mean realistic. In real life taking off is pretty easy, and fighting the plane for control shouldn't happen. Trimming isn't that hard.

Thank you! Finally someone who gets it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, we should all listen to boosher. after all, he does have MULTIPLE hours in pipers!!!

btw boosher...did they have to install a custom aileron trim on your aircraft? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

madsarmy
08-28-2005, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Jester_159th:
That sounds very promising, but as soon as anyone mentions MSFS2004 type ground textures (especially in a combat sim that can involve dogfights at low level etc) I go cold.

When there are that many fighters & bombers around you the last thing your thinking about is **** ground textures.
If they iron the problems out it will be a must have.

Kuna15
08-28-2005, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:

But what I really want to know is there a tactical side of the sim? Something like in original Rowan's sim? Some kind of tactical screen and we are in control of air forces on one side?

That's Strategy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The tactical screen is your windsheild. And yes, it has been reported that picking your strategy is possible, although it can be turned off </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have enjoyed the strategic part (you could see a little icons [squadrons] on map and assign them to their duties). At given moment you could even jump in a cockpit of one airplane.

I'm not that demanding guy... it was fun for me. Just the Controls (assigning them etc.) part was nightmare.

I'm interested if someone could tell me if that strategic part (or something alike) is featured in this new sim (if possible, short description) as well.

ouston
08-28-2005, 05:21 PM
I posted a comment on the airwarfare forum which you can have a look at but I think this title is well worth a try. I found take off well nigh impossible on realistic but I need to see if I am doing something wrong. I gave it a brief tryout on Friday night but have not had a chance to look at it since. The interception I tried was sweaty palm stuff with a massive raid coming in over the Channel. At medium altitude graphics are impressive. Engine noises are far better than IL2, the radio chatter seems much more realistic and appropriate, the enemy used height and there was a multi-layer battle going on. I was able to bounce a couple of 110s who were not equipped with sniper rear gunners and possibly chipped the paintwork on one. The sheer number of aircraft steaming about is quite a shock and they suddenly disappeared leaving me in an empty sky just as one reads about in the memoirs. It is going to take a while to get to grips with it but I think it is a good game. It has its faults as it is a revamp of a fairly old game and ground detail is not up to IL2 standards but give it a go. It will be worth the money and makes one wonder what the Maddox team might make of the same conflict.

Pip pip
Ouston

fordfan25
08-28-2005, 05:22 PM
how hard is the game on hardwear compaired to FB?

ouston
08-28-2005, 06:15 PM
Minimum spec on the box says Pentium III 800 Mhz, 128 video card, 256 RAM. I ran my copy on some way above that and it ran quite smoothly. I need to play about with the settings a bit I think. Low level the detail is not great to be honest, tracks and roads are more smudges on the landscape as in CFS3. The roads and railways in IL2 do irritate me in the way they do sudden turns but they are a good deal better than either BOB2 or CFS3. One is intent on stopping the evil Hun from interupting our way of life, preventing us from enjoying tea, cricket and warm bitter, listening to the Home Service and paddling in the sea at Margate. **** it man, there are more important things than the ground detail in such a situation.

Sorry for that outburst. Think I have got myself back together again now.

Pip pip
Ouston

SeaFireLIV
08-28-2005, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Kuna15:
Nice review... also I have seen BoB_intercept video, and my impressions are that game is certainly worth a try.

.303s are, IMO, more effective than our .303s in game, and BoB VoW's bomber gunners are less lethal than FB ones.

But what I really want to know is there a tactical side of the sim? Something like in original Rowan's sim? Some kind of tactical screen and we are in control of air forces on one side?

Finally started the offline Campaign. Well, it`s got all the bells and whistles as far as I can tell. You can play Brit or German. You get to assign all kinds of priorities ranging from what planes go where after manufacture to when to retire men when they become too tired to fight effectively. You can set the enemy Strategic AI to behave as it did historically or use better-informed tactics of a wiser air marshal.

You can jump in at any point and join in the fight from a long distance (so you can set up a tactical attack) or right close up in the dogfight. But i`m just part of the squad at Tangmere for now. Flying as Blue 2.

(Personally, I`ve just given the AI control with a few basic suggestions from me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

Jumped into an interception of Stukas. I expected to bump into 10-20, but there must have been at least 100 in 2 groups of 50. My Squad leader ordered us to attack the bombers. The strange thing is you don`t know where to start, who to attack - what difference will it make there are so many.

I fly through the midst of them fast, firing wildly. A stuka breaks dropping his bombs, I immediately lose him, so i go for the next target, swooping through, certain i`m going to be hit. I think I hit one, not sure. Continuous waffle coming from the other aircraft: `Shoot him!` Someone yells.

I see what looks like 3 more groups of 50 aircraft to the left and right.

Then I hear another squad of Spitfires arrive. It`s neat because they briefly introduce themselves, "This is Phoenix Squad, hello."

"Hello, Phoenix, you fly top cover!"

I can`t remember the exact callsigns, but you get the gist. Very nice touchs. It`s just a pity that the voices all sound like the same man, apart from the tower. Still it`s very immersive.

Whether you bail or survive you return to the Campaign map and get a daily debrief of the situation. On my first day we had a record kill of Jerry planes, none of my doing I can assure you... But then it would be a record being the 1st day!

I wrote my fledging adventure in the little diary you get. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway, that`s the basics.

Kuna15
08-28-2005, 07:55 PM
Thanks SeaFire for your answer. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Seems there are some very neat features there, and I will certainly enjoy the look at large group of bombers although I bet that I will go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif if I happen to be in the Hurricane interceptor. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

jamesdietz
08-28-2005, 08:02 PM
Have been reading of very big install & FPS probs from guys in England...did you have these? If so how did you cope? Am getting game , but wondering if I should see if a patch will be coming before I try to install???

SeaFireLIV
08-29-2005, 02:50 AM
I`m in England. I had absolutely no install problems whatsoever. I did have some FPS slowdown. I didn`t use the meter, but I could see it. When I finally printed out the manual, i realised why/ the MAXIMUM settings are designed for top-range and even later computers. I set most settings to medium and reduced the amount of ground stuff.

I set my resolution to 1024X768 with anisotropic and AA on to 2X. I might go higher. On these settings the sim looks very nice.

After this the sim ran very smoothly, even through 100s of aircraft. I think a lot of people are trying to fly on too high settings (Max).

I did have a CTD though. Seems to happen once every 7-8 missions and often on loading or when the sim has to make a decision. An English text error appears. I know the Devs are working on fixing this right now...

Alexi_Alx_Anova
08-29-2005, 03:45 AM
This sim has a lot of potential I agree.

The sound is a whole new dimension compared to FB's absolute rubbish (although there are synch problems, e.g., the engine all but stops and you can see the propellor blades just turning, but the engine still sounds like high revs. A 109 may zip past you and then you hear it approaching, etc.) However, this is a price worth paying for the fabulous stall buffeting sounds (Oleg, please pay attention), and the bumb of the wheels on landing/takeoff. All I need to do now is find out how to stop the passing plane and bullet hit noises which is an arcade touch.

The cockpits are fine enough but nothing revolutionary. All the dials do appear to work and I personally like the virtual cockpit (although it's limited to just a few switches). The use of TrackIR 6DOF is FANTASTIC. This really, really adds yet another dimension to combat flying.

The plane models are also OK, but they don't look anything as good as FB's when viewed externally. There's something comic-booky or dull about them.

The flight model is up to 4.01. Difficult, but not impossible to take off. However, very difficult to stall while in flight and no yaw (i.e., I've not yet needed to trim the plane, and yes, I'm using the realistic flight model). Landing is difficult, because the ground is so low detailed, it's hard to guage how close you're getting to terra firma.

AI seems OK. At least the AI pilots don't fly into the ground like in FB. Suffice to say, combat is challenging and protracted. Good fun.

The GUI is horrid. Ghastly colours. Amature layout/fonts. If you use 120 DPI fonts (like I did), the menu system is compeltely screwed. You'll have to go back to default 96 DPI fonts. There are still faults; try choosing the RAF from the Luft campaigns! There is no correct mapping of the mouse position and the 'buttons'. I had to just click randomly around the screen before I could get an RAF campaign to start.

The CTD is a real show stopper. It can happen anywhere in the game (menu, loading, in game). There are some particular trouble spots, e.g., approaching bombers in one of the instant action scenarios, or if you choose 'continue' before saving your controlled settings.

The game plays realy slooowly. I've varied all sorts of detail levels, but not yet got better than 21 fps. There is something seriously wrong here. If you have lots of planes, it goes down to 4 fps. This is with a system that runs FB+ACE+PF (4.01) in perfect at 35 fps (with vsynch on). So go figure....

With the UK version there is no printed manual, and the .pdf version is not much use despite its size. The printed map is nice but the key chart is a joke. You'll need to dig out your magnifying glass.

The DVD documentary is an onld one from 2002 that you can buy elsewhere (I already have it). It's this one;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00007L3RC/qid.../202-2774653-0467857 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00007L3RC/qid=1125308537/sr=1-10/ref=sr_1_11_10/202-2774653-0467857)

So all up, I feel the game has a lot of potential and will be a nice single player experience. But as it stands at the moment, there are some SERIOUS technical problems making it slow and unstable. Time will tell if they can patch it.

asgeirr73
08-29-2005, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by MichaelMar:
Yep, those videos sold me. I really think the FM will be WAYYYYY more realistic then IL2. For the planes not only will be harder to take off/land but combat will require much more skill and plane controle.

Went to EBGames today and placed a preorder http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I placed one my self to day will probobly come on friday http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif hmm now I just have to also get vectorexpansion

stubby
08-29-2005, 07:07 AM
As excited as I was about getting this game, I've read quite a few postings in other forums regarding CTDs (crash-to-desktop) and substantial frame-rate drops. If it has just been one or two random postings about it, I wouldn't be concerned. But folks that i respect and know what they're doing are reporting these issues. Now a days, unstable PC games that crash just isn't acceptable.

Alexi_Alx_Anova
08-29-2005, 02:44 PM
A few more observations:

Artificial horizon in Spit Mk 1: If you look, not too closely, you can see the horizon line moving through the dash board behind the guage. It looks like the guage image wasn't placed in properly.

Yaw/bank indcator in Spit Mk 1: The arrows periodically disapear and then reapear.

Clouds: High level clouds, especially when seen near edge of vision, periodically show grid patterns. Sometime straight lines are seen across the sky. At first I thought I was seeing contrails, but there are none in the game, in fact there is not even wing tip trails when turning tightly.

AI: Planes often fly slightly sideways (could be they are using rudder?). But most annoyingly, often when you line up on a plane, it does a 90 deg shift just before you can fire.

Aircraft collision: Collisions are clearly handled by an area effect. You can clearly have many feet between two planes, but you'll instantly loose a wing. There is no animation of the damege. One instant you're a whole plane, the next instant you've lost a wing and usually you've also teleported into a downwards attitude.

It's getting very hard to describe the feeling of this game. In some parts it's excellent and in others it's rank amature.

SeaFireLIV
08-29-2005, 03:26 PM
I hate to say it, but your observations about the sky lines are correct. Still before I say more i`ll keep running the game for about a week more first...

tsisqua
08-29-2005, 04:20 PM
Good review, and very informative. Thanks for taking the time, SeaFire.

As soon as I see this title here, I will have to buy it. I'm sure that whatever needs patched up will be fixed soon.

I doubt, however, that it will take the place of my IL2 installations anytime soon. I have tons of flight sims that were retired a month after purchase, and if it doesn't fuel my fire it will join them in my collection.

Tsisqua

Chuck_Older
08-29-2005, 04:25 PM
Where you been, Larry?

LEXX_Luthor
08-29-2005, 04:51 PM
Wellcome back to Forgotten Board tsisqua

tsisqua
08-29-2005, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Where you been, Larry?

Hijacking this old thread, evidently.

That and enjoying "When Tigers Could Fly", Mate! I have an idea that should have been done a long time ago; Online reviews for user-made campaigns. I want you to know that with all of the payware I've been writing about, I have yet to see a third party addon with more fun and realism than yours. The only difference is the huge amount of missions a team of developers can get together, but after 200 Banzai missions the fun of returning to your campaign has never left. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Heya, Lexx! Its really good to be able to post a little more now that the move is all over. BTW, 56k sux, bigtime! There's flooding all around us, and we are sitting high and dry. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tsisqua

SeaFireLIV
08-30-2005, 02:43 AM
It`s nice to see you Tsisqua, and thnx for the comments. It really was just a quickie review though. I hope to do a much more detailed one later.

F19_Ob
08-30-2005, 04:42 AM
Hello seafire.

I was wondering about gunhit and damage effects.
On the "intercept" movie from the sim the mg hits of the spitfire on the bombers looked like 30mm hits. Now this was a cut movie so perhaps I missed something.
What is your opinion with longer experience of these effects?

DmdSeeker
08-30-2005, 05:48 AM
How does the sim handle control/comand mapping.

For me that was the biggest problem with the original sim; the appalling flakey control mapping, despite the fact that the original manual showed pictures of a Sidewinder, a programmable stick!

SeaFireLIV
08-30-2005, 06:27 AM
Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
How does the sim handle control/comand mapping.

For me that was the biggest problem with the original sim; the appalling flakey control mapping, despite the fact that the original manual showed pictures of a Sidewinder, a programmable stick!

The only problem I find with my SidewinderII FF stick is the Hatswitch simply refuses to map to anything. It appears to accept, but in flight doesn`t work. I`ve only tried adding views to the Hat like with FB, I haven`t tried anything else.

Other buttons work fine and the throttle works fine.

@F19_Ob

At the moment I really don`t know. I`m not really the sort to check that kind of detail unless it appears blatantly wrong, same with FMs. Best to leave that to our more studious bullet-hit chaps. To me shots from both the Hurri and Spit seem weak and it`s hard to take down a bogey in a first strike... (could my **** shooting too not helping).

Tiger27
08-30-2005, 08:16 AM
From what I read here it doesnt sound like a huge amount has changed since its original release 4+ years ago, its definately a nice offline sim just a bit dated I would imagine.
Does it still have the problem of damaged AI bombers not being able to leave formation?

SeaFireLIV
08-30-2005, 09:08 AM
Well I`m in mid July where so far i`ve only seen Stukas. When Stukas are attacked they tend to go all over the place. damaged ones definitely fall behind, etc.

As for He111s, I don`t know. I did a quick mission and as far as I could tell all seemed normal. some bombers smoking and trying to keep formation, fighters buzzing. I must admit I didn`t of this bug in the previous version. i`ll watch out for it properly next time.

Buzzsaw-
08-30-2005, 09:57 AM
Salute

I bought the original Rowan game BoB when it came out, and I was impressed with some aspects, and unimpressed with others. I also installed and played the 3rd party mods which came out.

It was one of the few games which I didn't fly max. realism, because the flight model was so twitchy. I'm hoping they toned it down a bit. I love IL-2's full realism, but BoB I felt went too far.

The terrain in the original game down low was blocky, especially for cities, and destroyed immersion for me. I'm hoping that is not the case anymore. The pictures I've seen show improvements, but wondering about those blocky cities.

On the other hand, the immersive aspect of the campaign was great. Seeing the huge numbers of aircraft in the air, hearing the ground controllers etc. was very good. I liked the way you could play as the strategic commander and then be notified when your personal Squadron was scrambled, so you could fly missions as a pilot. IL-2 could learn a lot about Campaign immersion from BoB.

Overall, I think the game is worth a try, if nothing just to get the feel of what a huge air battle is like, and how confusing.

I will be ordering it.

Clawed1970
08-31-2005, 10:26 AM
I was an avid fan of Rowan's original BOB. In fact, I still play it quite a bit, as it maintains superb frame rates, even with over one hundred planes in the air and thick flak, running at 1280x768 / 32 bit and all other graphic options set to maximum.

Although I initially enjoyed the strategic aspects of the campaign, I grew to curse it. The problem is that the campaign is unwinnable, unless you engage in substantial and time-consuming micromanagement. If you focus on the "pilot career" aspects of the game, and leave the campaign strategy and decisions to the computer, you will likely not even get past the convoy stage, which is the first stage of the battle. The campaign ai will not carry out fundamental and necessary tasks, such as revectoring patrols to intercept incoming raids and setting the "readiness" of available squadrons appropriately.

I am hoping that these campaign / pilot career issues are fixed in bob2:wov.

LEXX_Luthor
08-31-2005, 10:37 AM
mmm, that is interesting. I don't think they changed the campaign much. Not sure though. We must await the releace of the final concluding Seafire Report.

Dr...Watson
08-31-2005, 11:02 AM
Just installed it and tried the takeoff mission.

Got the engine started eventually, was to busy looking out the window at the crappy MSFS98 ground textures!

Takeoff was a bit dodgy, nose nearly came level then it spins you round and you get a message saying you are crashed, with your plane bouncing around and the most unrealistic flames you have ever seen.

Eventually got up, strafed a few trucks, well tried to, the sights seem off and when you do get it on target, the spread of bullets is huge and you cant hit a thing. So far I think its total rubbish, had a few CTD as well which isnt like my PC. Need to try it a bit more, control setup is a bit of a pain as well but I m working on that, just need to work out how to reverse my throttle axis.

I will give it time.

LeadSpitter_
08-31-2005, 04:11 PM
I was going to buy the game but since it does not have online play theres no point for me too. Seafire lend me your copy so i can write a real comprehensive review.

vanjast
08-31-2005, 06:21 PM
Sorry I'll pass on this one, as well as Rowan's.
In both previews I already see things that I don't like.
I'll wait for Oleg
Thank you
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

edt: AFAIK compare Oleg's setup to others. He has aeronautical engineers, real pilots (old and new) etc... all inputting their 2c worth into the development of the IL2 series. you don't hear anything like this from R..n of others and look at the difference in products produced. Oleg and crew put 2 years into research B4 the first IL2 arrived. Sorry ,I'm not going to waste my time with other wannabe sims, Thank you.

Clawed1970
08-31-2005, 06:32 PM
I can certainly empathize with many of these comments, but I must be honest and say that the original was and continues to be a very challenging, fun and immersive game.

That being said, I will wait until I own a system of considerable horsepower until I purchase the new version.

HoneySeeker
08-31-2005, 06:41 PM
I had ordered this, and I would still like to give it a whirl - but I think I'll wait for a patch or two, to give the game time to mature and have the bugs knocked out of it.

TPN_Cephas
08-31-2005, 07:15 PM
Collision problems in a single player game! Ack! It's bad enough when a multiplayer game has collision problems but in single player that is horrible. This is one area of IL2 that really shines. Oleg's netcode handles collisions nearly perfectly, except that sometimes one plane does not take damage, but in the sense they do not hit til they really touch even online is amazing. My second favorite sim of all time Jane's WW2 Fighters was a bit off in this regard also. It was really disappointing to see your squadmates sunk a meter or so into the ground after a mission because the game was not very good at tracking precise locations.

Overall it sounds like this game is not worth trying, sure I would love great sound and to have a real start up sequence with priming and such, but IL2 is just so much better in stability, FM, net code, and even fan based add-ons like skins and Scorched Earth.

Aaron_GT
09-01-2005, 02:18 PM
I got this today, and I've taken it for a spin.

The frame rates are choppy at 1280x1024x32 on an ATI 9800 Pro, AMD XP 3000, 1GB RAM. At dusk the sky is full of brown banding. In full sun there is still banding in the sky.

The LODs are a bit off so it is hard to see much detail on bombers when approaching at a point when you get more of an idea of what they are in IL2.

Sometimes 109s appear as if from nowhere and scream past you.

The terrain graphics are pretty decent from above 3000 ft with a nice effect of fields. Below 3000 ft they are poor.

Hit bubbles on bombers seem a little large.

Cockpits are fine (apart from a few graphics glitches).

Campaign essentially the same as before as far as I can tell.

FM modelling: not tried a take off yet, but seems ok when in the air.

CTDs present when trying to jump into the action from the campaign screen.

Overall, slightly superior to BDG 0.97 (the last version I tried) in terms of cockpit graphics, but suffers much more from graphical glitches than BDG 0.97 Without patches, though, it's not worth the money.

Old_Canuck
09-02-2005, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
.... Without patches, though, it's not worth the money.

This says it all for me. Will wait for BoB 1C and maybe hunt down that old CFS3 disc and laugh out loud at it: "didn't get fooled again Ha ha ha ha."