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SpaceJim12
05-28-2019, 09:07 AM
I remebered, how Ubi nerfed Black Prior after a month of forum's crying. And except one glitch BP was almost balanced. Meanwhile, Hitokiri and reworked Raider have their easy-as-hell matches around the month and no actions from Ubi.

Well, yes, I now Hitokiri are not as bad as Raider right now. Still, it's cheap hero for noob friendly gameplay. Let be honest, Hitokiri do not require any skill. All you have to do is spam, do charged attacks or cancel it against turtles. Cause of Hyper Armor she is extremely hard to deal for assassins. If you play PK, don't even try. And of course her absolutly cool 4th feat. Instakil acrobatic ****. And before all "you can easily dodge it" guys wake up, It's not feat itself. The problem is a cooldown time. I saw Hitokiris, who used this feat 4-5 times in a single match. Really?

And of course, Raider. I think there are enough "Delete this guy, pls" threads around the forum. People stop playing cause of Raiders now. And remove dodge GB will not change this situation.

If maul guy and next reworked char will be the same level of unbalanced ****, I guess Ubi will loose all players who still have courage and mental strengh to play For Honor.

Peace!

Siegfried-Z
05-28-2019, 11:38 AM
The BP nerf was needed because he was close to unpunishable for most heroes.
I think he is currently a good A tier heroe which is where every heroes should be :)

Hitokiri is not OP but his kit is not balanced properly.
I mean Hito needs both Nerf and Buff. Nerf on the HA opener and on the 18 dmg HA light attack.
Buff on the range of his bash mix up and zone should chain.
And his Dodge heavy dmg should be nerf btw and should get better tracking then.
The 4th feat should have a better range but longer cooldown.

As for Raider, i have nothing to say, he is too strong now.
His defense is too strong because of Dodge GB.
But in terms of offense he needs nerf too :
-stunning tap should ne a Real 500ms moove, not faster
-stunning tap should be nerf from 18dmg and 80% of your stam to 15dmg and max 40% of stam dmg considering how easy and oppressive it is now
-rider fury (chained zone) should be nerf from 50 to 40, max 42dmg considering the easy access it has and insane AOE.

He would still be strong because of his new chains, faster lights and ST, new softfeints and HA.

MrB3NX
05-28-2019, 11:46 AM
Currently Vortiger is still much more powerful than Hitokiri

I'm happy that Ubisoft made a fun to play hero AND not disgusting to play against

it is very hard to do that yet they succeeded on it

The game needs to remove all the bashes or set them a cooldown otherwise it would still kill the fun every time .

Zombie.Face
05-28-2019, 12:09 PM
Ill be very surprised is they change the raider more than the GB dodge. face it, he's going to be broken from now on. why do we even keep asking for change? its like beating a dead horse with Ubisoft. they won't listen, they don't give 2 ****s, end of story. deal with the raider or just quit at the beginning of the fights like i do now. I'm just not going to fight them anymore. its too frustrating. rip for honor.

SpaceJim12
05-28-2019, 01:33 PM
The BP nerf was needed because he was close to unpunishable for most heroes.
I think he is currently a good A tier heroe which is where every heroes should be :)

Hitokiri is not OP but his kit is not balanced properly.
I mean Hito needs both Nerf and Buff. Nerf on the HA opener and on the 18 dmg HA light attack.
Buff on the range of his bash mix up and zone should chain.
And his Dodge heavy dmg should be nerf btw and should get better tracking then.
The 4th feat should have a better range but longer cooldown.

As for Raider, i have nothing to say, he is too strong now.
His defense is too strong because of Dodge GB.
But in terms of offense he needs nerf too :
-stunning tap should ne a Real 500ms moove, not faster
-stunning tap should be nerf from 18dmg and 80% of your stam to 15dmg and max 40% of stam dmg considering how easy and oppressive it is now
-rider fury (chained zone) should be nerf from 50 to 40, max 42dmg considering the easy access it has and insane AOE.

He would still be strong because of his new chains, faster lights and ST, new softfeints and HA.

Thank you, Siegfried to posted more detailed analysis here. I made this thread mostly...in rage term.=)
Sure, Hito not OP. As Warden I could feel really comfortable against her. And of course Black Prior and Conq and Warlord can be a tough opponents for her. But I played a lot on Orochi cause of orders last weekend, and as assassin I have a very little chance against her.=)
And you should agreed, that when hero need both buff and nerf, it's...well...mean Hitokiri need balancing.=)

And I guess Raider is a first reworked character, who bring full consent in the community. Even some Raider's mains said he is too strong.

SpaceJim12
05-28-2019, 01:37 PM
Currently Vortiger is still much more powerful than Hitokiri

I'm happy that Ubisoft made a fun to play hero AND not disgusting to play against

it is very hard to do that yet they succeeded on it

The game needs to remove all the bashes or set them a cooldown otherwise it would still kill the fun every time .

Much powerful? =) I saw a lot of new players on Black Prior, who can't handle skilled player on every other character. And now I see a lot of new players on Hitokiri, who easily destroy more skilled players on bottom tier chars. If you don't have bash, you will eat a lot of Hito charged heavies. Sure, you can turtle till death, but this could work in duels. 4v4 modes do not let you spend your time for staring on Hito in front of you.

Vakris_One
05-28-2019, 04:53 PM
Well firstly, we're not mid-season yet. Which is when Ubi tweaked BP last time around.

Secondly, from a bare minimum perspective, BP only needed to be slightly toned down in terms of his recovery from bulwark and shield bash and a bug fixed so that his shield bashes weren't being guaranteed in certain situations. Otherwise BP is a pretty solidly designed hero, minus the utter lack of a chase tool. Hitokiri on the other hand demands a rebalance because of how badly designed she is and this is far more work than what they put into BP's mid-season patch. Her strengths are also very matchup specific, whereas BP is pretty solid across the roster - i.e. he doesn't have any particularly one sided matchups where he's either too weak or oppressively strong. So comparing these two is a bit like comparing apples to oranges. They each have a very different set of issues at release.

Raider is the one that I would agree is a bit simpler to tweak and he can be likened to the slight tweaks that BP received rather quickly after his release. We'll have to wait and see what Ubi do with him when the mid-season patch comes along.


The BP nerf was needed because he was close to unpunishable for most heroes.
I think he is currently a good A tier heroe which is where every heroes should be :)

Hitokiri is not OP but his kit is not balanced properly.
I mean Hito needs both Nerf and Buff. Nerf on the HA opener and on the 18 dmg HA light attack.
Buff on the range of his bash mix up and zone should chain.
And his Dodge heavy dmg should be nerf btw and should get better tracking then.
The 4th feat should have a better range but longer cooldown.

As for Raider, i have nothing to say, he is too strong now.
His defense is too strong because of Dodge GB.
But in terms of offense he needs nerf too :
-stunning tap should ne a Real 500ms moove, not faster
-stunning tap should be nerf from 18dmg and 80% of your stam to 15dmg and max 40% of stam dmg considering how easy and oppressive it is now
-rider fury (chained zone) should be nerf from 50 to 40, max 42dmg considering the easy access it has and insane AOE.

He would still be strong because of his new chains, faster lights and ST, new softfeints and HA.
Sounds about right for Hito just to re-balance her into a healthier state.

I don't agree with putting Raider's stun tap to 500ms. He doesn't have any other form of opener to threaten with so a 400ms indicator on stun tap is fine in my opinion. The real problem with the move is that it does too much for something that is so easy to access and to land and you've already addressed that aspect by reducing it's damage and its stamina damage.

Siegfried-Z
05-28-2019, 05:10 PM
Thank you, Siegfried to posted more detailed analysis here. I made this thread mostly...in rage term.=)
Sure, Hito not OP. As Warden I could feel really comfortable against her. And of course Black Prior and Conq and Warlord can be a tough opponents for her. But I played a lot on Orochi cause of orders last weekend, and as assassin I have a very little chance against her.=)
And you should agreed, that when hero need both buff and nerf, it's...well...mean Hitokiri need balancing.=)

And I guess Raider is a first reworked character, who bring full consent in the community. Even some Raider's mains said he is too strong.

You're welcome man ;)

Yes Hito needs balancing and by saying this i mean both buff and nerf.

For raider i dont know what they are going to do but i think they gonna do something. Why ? Because i am on this forum for a year and half almost and never before saw that much problem created by a new heroe or a rework heroe. Lets see, i hope they gonna keep a mid season balancing patch as a habit.


Sounds about right for Hito just to re-balance her into a healthier state.

I don't agree with putting Raider's stun tap to 500ms. He doesn't have any other form of opener to threaten with so a 400ms indicator on stun tap is fine in my opinion. The real problem with the move is that it does too much for something that is so easy to access and to land and you've already addressed that aspect by reducing it's damage and its stamina damage.

Yes the problem mostly come from the dmg/stam dmg ST cause. As you said i've already mentionned it.

I said 500ms because, maybe i am wrong and then my bad but the moove was designed to get 100ms faster from 600 to 500ms.
So the 400ms indicator is just a bug they have to fix isnt it?

I agree this is THE Raider opener. But a 500ms softfeint from an UB which does massive dmg looks strong enough to me (considering all the others strong part of his kit). Most Openers works properly without being 400ms, Imo.

Vakris_One
05-28-2019, 05:31 PM
You're welcome man ;)

Yes Hito needs balancing and by saying this i mean both buff and nerf.

For raider i dont know what they are going to do but i think they gonna do something. Why ? Because i am on this forum for a year and half almost and never before saw that much problem created by a new heroe or a rework heroe. Lets see, i hope they gonna keep a mid season balancing patch as a habit.



Yes the problem mostly come from the dmg/stam dmg ST cause. As you said i've already mentionned it.

I said 500ms because, maybe i am wrong and then my bad but the moove was designed to get 100ms faster from 600 to 500ms.
So the 400ms indicator is just a bug they have to fix isnt it?

I agree this is THE Raider opener. But a 500ms softfeint from an UB which does massive dmg looks strong enough to me (considering all the others strong part of his kit). Most Openers works properly without being 400ms, Imo.
Most openers are bashes that force a reaction other than simply blocking/parrying. A 500ms indicator on stun tap soft feint would not be an opener any more than a Nobushi light from Hidden stance is.

The 400ms indicator is not a bug, it's intended. The move itself is indeed 500ms but the developer's decided to hide the indicator for the first 100ms. Reducing its damage and stamina damage is sufficient to tone the move down in my opinion. We need more characters that are actually able to throw attacks, not less. Otherwise it's back to the defensive meta and complaining about not being able to throw an attack without getting deleted for it. And Raider now is able to throw attacks (precisely because of that 400ms stun tap) without having a single bash, which I personally like because frankly there's too many kits crutching on bashes in the game already.

Siegfried-Z
05-28-2019, 06:47 PM
Most openers are bashes that force a reaction other than simply blocking/parrying. A 500ms indicator on stun tap soft feint would not be an opener any more than a Nobushi light from Hidden stance is.

The 400ms indicator is not a bug, it's intended. The move itself is indeed 500ms but the developer's decided to hide the indicator for the first 100ms. Reducing its damage and stamina damage is sufficient to tone the move down in my opinion. We need more characters that are actually able to throw attacks, not less. Otherwise it's back to the defensive meta and complaining about not being able to throw an attack without getting deleted for it. And Raider now is able to throw attacks (precisely because of that 400ms stun tap) without having a single bash, which I personally like because frankly there's too many kits crutching on bashes in the game already.

I dislike kit too oriented arround bash too.

But i think ST would be efficient enough just by being a classic 500ms softfeint.

This would be far from being back to the defensive Meta ;)
A better offense is a good and needed thing, a too easy offense to display would just turn FH in another kind of tekken. There is an important middle ground.
I personnaly would quit FH if one day it became too easy and safe to smash attack button.

This is my own feeling but i know the team is more thinking in your way.

UbiInsulin
05-28-2019, 06:58 PM
Stefan talked about Dodge GB and incoming stamina changes that will impact Raider two Warrior's Dens ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/bpg3ke/may_16th_warriors_den_qa_summary/ . Raider is still very much being looked at by the team, as you'd expect for a newly changed hero.

MuscleTech12018
05-28-2019, 07:22 PM
Lol guys chill, there will be no balance this season.