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Star.Princess
05-06-2019, 01:37 AM
1. After guard recovery to 100ms (instead of 300ms) he is broken, he have almost infinite dodge with infinte i-frames, it is quite impossible to hit him in OS.
2. He still have unpunishable parry, he can hold heavy, go into OS and feint, it will be parry but you can't do the gb without soft-feint, he will just counter it. Also he can parry light and block heavy with such thing, it is just impossible to open him with many heroes and it is frustrating to play against such HL. This need to be fixed.

Meanpie13
05-06-2019, 02:39 AM
You do realize Highlander is one of the worse performing characters in all game modes? Highlander has to work his butt off to compete with most of the cast. If anything he needs some improvements to his move set.
1. Yes. He is good at dodging, but it's not impossible to deal with him. Dodging in OS is really his best tool and what makes him unique. Plenty of characters have undodgeable or very fast/difficult to dodge attacks, or soft feint to GBs, or variable timing attacks that aren't really dodgeable on reaction
2. I'm assuming you mean when he cancels his offensive stance to parry? You do know that this isn't a just a parry right? The Highlander has to read your attack, cancel his OS, and then also parry by pressing Heavy Attack. Canceling OS isn't a parry by its self. At least on console, this is ridiculously hard to do and takes a ton of practice. The Highlander basically has to assume you are about to throw out an attack and then immediately cancel OS and parry. If you are consistently being parried like this, you are being way too predictable.

Star.Princess
05-06-2019, 04:39 AM
1. Yes. He is good at dodging, but it's not impossible to deal with him. Dodging in OS is really his best tool and what makes him unique. Plenty of characters have undodgeable or very fast/difficult to dodge attacks, or soft feint to GBs, or variable timing attacks that aren't really dodgeable on reaction
Man, you don't understand, he can make dodge, stance change, dodge, stance change and have lower than 500ms basic OS recovery, after 100ms attack recovery buff for non-reflex guard heroes he can cancel recovery with guard change more fast, so fast you can't even catch him, it is bug, I am not talking about simple faster dodge-recovery in OS.


2. I'm assuming you mean when he cancels his offensive stance to parry? You do know that this isn't a just a parry right? The Highlander has to read your attack, cancel his OS, and then also parry by pressing Heavy Attack. Canceling OS isn't a parry by its self. At least on console, this is ridiculously hard to do and takes a ton of practice. The Highlander basically has to assume you are about to throw out an attack and then immediately cancel OS and parry. If you are consistently being parried like this, you are being way too predictable.
It is parry, yeah it need lot of practice, but it is real parry option, unpunishable against simple feints, Conq and maybe Shinobi have such thing too, I have friend who can use such feature, it is really work, I fought against HL with my LB and it is just impossible to open him, he can parry all heavies and I can't punish him for it, after my heavy feint appears OS animation, it is glitch too, maybe from HL release.

The_B0G_
05-06-2019, 10:50 AM
I thought this was going to be a buff HL thread lol I was about to make one myself.

I haven't met too many HL's that I couldn't knock out of OS, it sounds like you just went up against a really good HL, because he isn't really that stong of a character. His lights get parried often, his neutral heavys always get parried, and his HA initiates too late into his attacks to be any help.

His kick/throw mixup is all he really has that's good besides dodging in OS, which is risky. Even after his kick/throw, he csn get his free heavy snd he has to back off because of his high stamina cost to do the move. He can't keep any pressure up at all. I find that he suffers against heroes with fast attacks, and that list gets longer after every hero balance.

Knight_Raime
05-06-2019, 11:08 AM
You do realize Highlander is one of the worse performing characters in all game modes? Highlander has to work his butt off to compete with most of the cast. If anything he needs some improvements to his move set.
1. Yes. He is good at dodging, but it's not impossible to deal with him. Dodging in OS is really his best tool and what makes him unique. Plenty of characters have undodgeable or very fast/difficult to dodge attacks, or soft feint to GBs, or variable timing attacks that aren't really dodgeable on reaction
2. I'm assuming you mean when he cancels his offensive stance to parry? You do know that this isn't a just a parry right? The Highlander has to read your attack, cancel his OS, and then also parry by pressing Heavy Attack. Canceling OS isn't a parry by its self. At least on console, this is ridiculously hard to do and takes a ton of practice. The Highlander basically has to assume you are about to throw out an attack and then immediately cancel OS and parry. If you are consistently being parried like this, you are being way too predictable.

That never has been nor ever should be an excuse for having a broken mechanic.
Difficulty isn't an excuse for broken mechanics. Option selects that involve charge mechanics are incredibly dumb and only harm the game.
yes, being able to pull any HL tech off to make him an actual threat to other heros is difficult. Yes any hero with an easy way to shut out offensive form makes HL's day ten times harder.
No those are not excuses for terrible design. Highlander needs a major overhaul.


I thought this was going to be a buff HL thread lol I was about to make one myself.

I haven't met too many HL's that I couldn't knock out of OS, it sounds like you just went up against a really good HL, because he isn't really that stong of a character. His lights get parried often, his neutral heavys always get parried, and his HA initiates too late into his attacks to be any help.

His kick/throw mixup is all he really has that's good besides dodging in OS, which is risky. Even after his kick/throw, he csn get his free heavy snd he has to back off because of his high stamina cost to do the move. He can't keep any pressure up at all. I find that he suffers against heroes with fast attacks, and that list gets longer after every hero balance.

Fighting a good highlander is incredibly rare because mastery of such hero involves using a bunch of wonky tech in order to make him viable since he's the most match up reliant hero in the game.
Wether or not the OP was struggling against a HL doesn't change the validity of the statement. Wave dashing as HL makes him practically impossible to punish and existed prior to this patch. Now that the guard switch was normalized it makes him literally impossible to punish unless someone manages to hit him with an AoE feat or the guy messes up. HL can literally stall a capture point doing this.

I'd suggest actually looking into high tier play of highlander to actually see what kind of BS he's capable of. The only reason he's not complained about more despite how safe he can be and how easily he can ding you with 40 damage is because he's the most input heavy hero in the game even without factoring in his tech. HL is busted. Both in terms of power and in terms of weakness. He's more flawed than Centurion or Shinobi.

EDIT: Here is a link showcasing what wave dashing is like now. Prior to this update some of these attacks would actually land. Now that's no longer the case.


https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/bkw6jz/hey_guys_the_developers_accidentally_buffed_mah/

C4rmine52
05-06-2019, 12:11 PM
1. After guard recovery to 100ms (instead of 300ms) he is broken, he have almost infinite dodge with infinte i-frames, it is quite impossible to hit him in OS.
2. He still have unpunishable parry, he can hold heavy, go into OS and feint, it will be parry but you can't do the gb without soft-feint, he will just counter it. Also he can parry light and block heavy with such thing, it is just impossible to open him with many heroes and it is frustrating to play against such HL. This need to be fixed.

Now i know you don’t know jack about balancing lol. Raider is fine but high lander is op ? Yeah the door is that way ————>

The_B0G_
05-06-2019, 12:52 PM
That never has been nor ever should be an excuse for having a broken mechanic.
Difficulty isn't an excuse for broken mechanics. Option selects that involve charge mechanics are incredibly dumb and only harm the game.
yes, being able to pull any HL tech off to make him an actual threat to other heros is difficult. Yes any hero with an easy way to shut out offensive form makes HL's day ten times harder.
No those are not excuses for terrible design. Highlander needs a major overhaul.



Fighting a good highlander is incredibly rare because mastery of such hero involves using a bunch of wonky tech in order to make him viable since he's the most match up reliant hero in the game.
Wether or not the OP was struggling against a HL doesn't change the validity of the statement. Wave dashing as HL makes him practically impossible to punish and existed prior to this patch. Now that the guard switch was normalized it makes him literally impossible to punish unless someone manages to hit him with an AoE feat or the guy messes up. HL can literally stall a capture point doing this.

I'd suggest actually looking into high tier play of highlander to actually see what kind of BS he's capable of. The only reason he's not complained about more despite how safe he can be and how easily he can ding you with 40 damage is because he's the most input heavy hero in the game even without factoring in his tech. HL is busted. Both in terms of power and in terms of weakness. He's more flawed than Centurion or Shinobi.

EDIT: Here is a link showcasing what wave dashing is like now. Prior to this update some of these attacks would actually land. Now that's no longer the case.


https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/bkw6jz/hey_guys_the_developers_accidentally_buffed_mah/

Wow, never seen that yet, that's pretty broken.

Knight_Raime
05-06-2019, 12:59 PM
Wow, never seen that yet, that's pretty broken.

It's far more common on pc because most people refuse to change their buttons on console. But this is easily doable on console if you remapped your dodge button to LB.

It's one of the tricks HL has in his bag of goodies. A normal HL plays completely different compared to someone who's mastered the class.

The_B0G_
05-06-2019, 02:14 PM
It's far more common on pc because most people refuse to change their buttons on console. But this is easily doable on console if you remapped your dodge button to LB.

It's one of the tricks HL has in his bag of goodies. A normal HL plays completely different compared to someone who's mastered the class.

PC in general plays completely different I think, they seem to have completely separate issues.

First time I've seen that though, I though HL might get a buff just because of his crushing counters being easier to pull off with the new update, didn't see this coming though.

Knight_Raime
05-06-2019, 02:42 PM
PC in general plays completely different I think, they seem to have completely separate issues.

First time I've seen that though, I though HL might get a buff just because of his crushing counters being easier to pull off with the new update, didn't see this coming though.

Yes he was buffed in that fashion as well. Wave dashing existed prior to this update. This update just made it even better.

Here is a link that showcases all of the tech that i'm aware of with HL (beyond the standard things like holding to go into OF counts as option select parrying and that you can feint out of that basically immediately thus preventing any legitimate punish you could possibly attempt.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/9mapya/highlander_tech_extravaganza/

In that clip compilation the only tech from there that's legitimately hard if not impossible to do for controller is the seziure tech.

Meanpie13
05-06-2019, 05:36 PM
Just another example of how console players and PC players are on a completely different page. Wave dashing is non-existent on console; I've never seen it on PS4 in my 1800 hours of play time, but now I kind of want to try it. Canceling OS to go to a parry is rare. I've never had a Highlander do it to me. I watch Highlanders on PC and everything looks easy. The frame rate and input delay on console makes dodging in OS really difficult even with tons of practice I still get hit all the time by attacks that I'm certain that I should have dodged. (I'm a Rep 66 HL on PS4). HL is really buggy too on console. Sometimes he continues walking backwards after I backstep light to enter OS even if I change my direction to go forward. He also occasionally exits OS when I release heavy attack without throwing a baelor's might. Since the new patch, when I get knocked out of OS, sometimes I have to press down the heavy button twice to get back into OS.

Star.Princess
05-06-2019, 08:20 PM
Now i know you don’t know jack about balancing lol. Raider is fine but high lander is op ? Yeah the door is that way ————>
Lol, I didn't say anything about OP or not. HL is broken, ok? He need to be fixed, ok? Do you want let him be broken because he is mediocre?

Helnekromancer
05-06-2019, 09:04 PM
Just another example of how console players and PC players are on a completely different page. Wave dashing is non-existent on console; I've never seen it on PS4 in my 1800 hours of play time, but now I kind of want to try it. Canceling OS to go to a parry is rare. I've never had a Highlander do it to me. I watch Highlanders on PC and everything looks easy. The frame rate and input delay on console makes dodging in OS really difficult even with tons of practice I still get hit all the time by attacks that I'm certain that I should have dodged. (I'm a Rep 66 HL on PS4). HL is really buggy too on console. Sometimes he continues walking backwards after I backstep light to enter OS even if I change my direction to go forward. He also occasionally exits OS when I release heavy attack without throwing a baelor's might. Since the new patch, when I get knocked out of OS, sometimes I have to press down the heavy button twice to get back into OS.

It wouldn't be that way if Ubisoft just balanced the game for console separately but they don't. PC is the golden child and the Consoles are the kids locked in the basement. And because they don't balance it, console is a mess, with Fighters being **** to decent on PC to broken on console. I think most of the people on console just stopped caring once they devs said that they won't be balancing console, so they just play for fun so you're not going to find this dumb **** on console.