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View Full Version : Raider needs to be toned down.



C4rmine52
05-04-2019, 05:12 AM
Were you guys high off coke or do you just not give 2 ****s about the balance in this game anymore ? Raider needed fixes donít get me wrong, but what in the **** were thinking ?. And then I see lawbringers rework and see how you just spat in every single law bringer mains face. You guys seriously donít give a **** do you ? And you nerfed steel and xp gains on Pvai, **** Ubisoft youíre looking more like EA as time goes by. **** you and your game

Baggin_
05-04-2019, 05:43 AM
This isn't a good way to get your point across, however I do agree he needs toned down. The way I think they should do this is by what most people are saying just having his dashing gb/cgb normalized. It promotes too much defensive player when he has all of these options.

ArchDukeInstinct
05-04-2019, 05:55 AM
Agreed. The amount of buffs Raider received is excessive. He needed some, but not all of that together.

Faster speed and higher damage across the board? Soft feints into GB on all the heavies? Hyper armor on all the combo heavies? And that while maintaining his strong tools like dodge GB and dodge CGB and the stamina damage he can dish out. It's out of control.

OhHowSheGoingEh
05-04-2019, 06:12 AM
Were you guys high off coke or do you just not give 2 ****s about the balance in this game anymore ? Raider needed fixes donít get me wrong, but what in the **** were thinking ?. And then I see lawbringers rework and see how you just spat in every single law bringer mains face. You guys seriously donít give a **** do you ? And you nerfed steel and xp gains on Pvai, **** Ubisoft youíre looking more like EA as time goes by. **** you and your game

It just goes to show that ubisoft doesnt care about the community, they do whatever they want because they know the community will lie down and take it. But oh well, this game ain't my problem now. Everyone i know,l and myself have put for honor in the trash where it belongs.

To the rest of the community enjoy being walked over by ubisoft, I've finally had enough.

Star.Princess
05-04-2019, 06:19 AM
I think Raider is normal, Lawbringer have much more powerfull rework as a duelist, anyway they are both not as strong regarding all heroes as BP was, Raider is #2 A-Tier and Lawbringer is #1 A-Tier or bottom S-Tier (I know that tier list is gone, but just imagine that not). I don't think Raider need nerf (maybe lights finishers nerf, but I don't think it will change something, few damage buff/nerf never changed something), this game need strong heroes, this game need shake up, new A/S-Tier heroes, new meta, new power standarts for future heroes/reworks.

Goat_of_Vermund
05-04-2019, 08:39 AM
Bp has zero chance in duel against raider. Every single bash he has is punished by a gb, he has lower damage, and no other offense. Raider is S tier, possibly the strongest character in the game right now. Dodge gb and cgb must go.

Star.Princess
05-04-2019, 08:52 AM
Bp has zero chance in duel against raider. Every single bash he has is punished by a gb, he has lower damage, and no other offense. Raider is S tier, possibly the strongest character in the game right now. Dodge gb and cgb must go.

Of course he counter BP, but he isn't the strongest, you can just have good reaction and react top light, it isn't impossible, also LB have no big problems then he isn't the strongest, Conq can win him by parry option select, JJ can win him too, he isn't S-Tier, top of A-Tier, not higher.

Sakura__Empire
05-04-2019, 08:59 AM
he is real spammer , GOD DAMM UBI , wtf is this

Sakura__Empire
05-04-2019, 09:09 AM
stop making spamers , spam + hyper armor

god dam it ubi why

he can spam better than orochie

Playing_Mantis
05-04-2019, 11:37 AM
ops that guy who thinks he's not op as **** plays him.

XxAgoniexX
05-04-2019, 11:50 AM
It's cool to upgrade Heroes but when you can't defeat them no.
I make around 20 brawls and in this 20 brawls , i was against Hersir 15 Times and i son just 0 Time.
You have just brocken your game , well played ... I will play when hersir will be defeatable

SpaceJim12
05-04-2019, 12:25 PM
Raider now is too strong

ZeroOn3
05-04-2019, 12:40 PM
Raider now is too strong

Seriously, what was wrong with the Raider to start with. It is impossible to beat, Heavy's are supposed to be slow but deal more damage, All you've done is given the Raider the speed and agility of the peacekeeper and increased the damage.

Same for the Lawbringer.

I consider myself a good technical player but i cannot see the point in spending my time throwing eggs at brick walls over and over for the limited time i have to play per evening.

The only issue now is pride. It is a known fact the Ubisoft will do nothing to undo the the damage caused because they do not back down to the community as they hate to admit stupidity.

I shall return to play if this gets sorted but hey, Not that you care UBI

PQ-Goldberg
05-04-2019, 12:42 PM
Played some games and i got no chance to win against a Raider. Thats the first time that i will stop playing For Honor until they nerf him.

C4rmine52
05-04-2019, 12:52 PM
This isn't a good way to get your point across, however I do agree he needs toned down. The way I think they should do this is by what most people are saying just having his dashing gb/cgb normalized. It promotes too much defensive player when he has all of these options. The constant stupid decisions made by Ubisoft lately especially with The balancing? I think I can speak most of the for honor community and say... they do not give a flying ****. I want to love this game but they make it impossible so Iím going to post like someone whoís been let down multiple times and is now pissed off, because thatís what I am Iím pissed off. Raider is officially Broken I have him at rep 26 I canít even bother to use him anymore because I literally kill everyone in .2 seconds and Idk about you guys but I like a challenge.
Heís just too strong now

UbiInsulin
05-04-2019, 08:00 PM
Thanks everyone for weighing in. What aspects of the current kit should be changed in your opinion? I get that "he needed some, but not all" of these changes as someone put it, so which ones stand out?

allenhollow
05-04-2019, 08:25 PM
just bring back his old damages,nerf his zone attack, do something about his spammy stunning effect

C4rmine52
05-04-2019, 09:30 PM
Thanks everyone for weighing in. What aspects of the current kit should be changed in your opinion? I get that "he needed some, but not all" of these changes as someone put it, so which ones stand out?
His damage didnít need to be buffed at all anywhere, his stunning tap needs to not be so spammy. He doesnít need dodge guard break anymore and his lights come out like orochis ,other then that heís fine and the hyper armor can stay.

Kryltic
05-04-2019, 09:39 PM
Thanks everyone for weighing in. What aspects of the current kit should be changed in your opinion? I get that "he needed some, but not all" of these changes as someone put it, so which ones stand out?

Remove his dodge GB/CGB. Make Stunning Tap do stamina damage and not set someone's stamina to 20. We were told this was something the developers were looking at as part of a global stamina overhaul... So why not fix this now since it was apparently causing issues for the overhaul?

His damage is pretty high but I would settle for just the two changes I've mentioned.

Meanpie13
05-04-2019, 10:03 PM
The only thing Raider needed was a faster chain starter, more chains, and variable timing on his stunning tap. That's all. Did they not even consider that Raider already had a 50% win rate before they gave him all this extra stuff? His speed is too fast. It's comical how fast he is swinging his axe. His hyper armor is too much. The ability to feint heavies to GB is too much, especially with stampede charge. His damage buffs were too much. You can't even see anything he does, let alone react to anything he does. Revert Raider back to the way he was. Leave his extra chains and keep the variable timing on the stunning tap. Leave his first light as 500ms and leave the rest 600ms, but make them superior like you did with LB. Raider was already a descent character, did I mention the 50% win rate that he had before? He didn't need buffed.

Zombie.Face
05-05-2019, 12:01 AM
well said zeroOn3. ubi will not listen to us at all. they hire this guy to respond to us just to make us feel better. i quit playing a few weeks ago due to the valk never getting a simple damage buff and now i see the raider get a damage buff?? who the **** is in charge of this balancing? my god. and how does the testing team not say to the devs...hey guys.. the raider might just be a little over the top don't ya think? i mean the valk players are doing 23 damage heavies..maybe we should buff that? NO lets make the raider ****ing over the top and increase hid damage just to spit in the face of all the ****ty valk players!!! well.. it was fun checking back in but ill be gone another few weeks until i see some actual changes that make sense. have fun with the game guys!. with the 30 million players that u still can't even find a rank match in... or much else to be honest. i think 30 million people have bought the game but i guarantee 30 mil people are not playing this game. now with the new patch they prob lost another 15% of their players.

Eroglas
05-05-2019, 12:11 AM
I'm mad with the steel reawrd nerf. They really went low with that one. You just don't push players to buy steel by lowering the gains in game modes!

MCBooma16
05-05-2019, 12:57 AM
@UbiInsulin

I think it's way too early to make any decisions yet about nerfs. I think the ones that are complaining are the owns with no reactions, or ones that simply don't want to admit they make mistakes when fighting.

The truth is, Raider is a seriously strong anti-ganker with the introduction of HA on second and finishing heavies. I'm not too sure if the second and finishing heavies needed any buffs in damage whatsoever, but I think this will help people think twice about ganking Raiders, now.

Right now Raider has pretty much everything, besides a neutral bash/opener.

Soft feint, 500ms lights, soft feint GBs, dodge GBs, HARD-***-HITTING heavies and HA on chained heavies.

Technically speaking, Raider's rework surpasses Kensei's. Kensei still has lame 600ms lights, but Raider and Kensei are equally matched in terms of HA and UB pressure. Both have dodge attacks but Raider also has the dodge GB.

PERHAPS Kensei's Heavy to Light soft feints could be faster, but that's just my opinion. (Just to match Raider's stunning tap).

I don't want to think about removing Dodge GB for Raider just yet, because unless you're near a wall, Raider can only get a 15dmg light. The neutral zone is not safe and will gaurentee the opponent a GB during the recovery. Not only that, but the stampede charge is interuptable, so dodge GB will be more limited in 4s.

HONESTLY, I think the long recovery for neutral zones is FINE. With all Raider has right now, it would be okay if the neutral zones were only to be used to finish off opponents. (28HP or less). If it's seriously a bug that does more damage to Raider than necessary, then I'd be willing to sacrifice that for what Raider has now.

You COULD nerf how far Raider runs for the stampede charge, that's no big deal I think. That would be Raider's weakness. You could keep Dodge GB, but after that Raider would have small damage options unless near a wall or ledge.

But what if Dodge GB is removed? Well, then Raider only has a stunning tap, which is easy to parry if baited and anticipated. Raider really wouldn't be as strong of a counter attacker compared to Warden or Tiandi, or even Kensei. He'd simply be weaker in duels again.

The soft feint to GB from any heavy helps Raider get those GBs off from combos that don't always just involve the zone.

HONESTLY, I did not expect this, and I didn't think it was a good idea at first, but it DOES make those heavies a little more scary and forces the opponent to pay more attention. You could hard feint and catch people before, but it is NOT believable in duels. It helps make him a stronger duelist overall.

For those arguing that Raider was okay before, you're right. He was great in 4s because of his 50dmg chained zone and uninterubtable stampede charge.That's IT...

In 1v1s? He could not initiate an offense easily at all. LB was worse, but the only pressure Raider had was from the chained zone. And, unless you could parry lights, you weren't going to be getting many heavies off. The 600ms lights did not work, and without a LH chain then, throwing a second light in a row was a stupid mistake and always resulted in a parry at high levels.

Having options that force players to make a choice instead of turtling for everything is good. Shugoki and Hitokiri do this well with their HA. They may not have soft feints or dodge attacks, but they do force reactions, either by UB heavies or grabs or sweeps or anything. Raider was givin faster lights, which are viable now; HA on heavies for alternative mind games than the zone mixup and better anti ganking potential; faster stunning tap since 600ms was just too reactable, now it's something that players MUST watch for; soft feints from heavies for more offensive dueling options.

If I WERE to criticize Raider on something, I would say that the chained heavy damage buff is probably too strong. WITH HA on chained heavies, Raider seriously rips through people easily. 48dmg heavy finishers are seriously nuts, especially for how fast Raider is now. WITH revenge, even more damage is just crazy.

Other than that, I think the rework is fantastic. Let's wait a month or so for people to learn to respect the presence and capabilites of the reworked Raider. The next goal should be to make other characters just as viable as Raider's and Kensei's reworks.

Figure something out for Cent. Figure something out for Ara. Figure something ELSE out for LB maybe... Bring those characters in line with reworks.

Arekonator
05-05-2019, 01:08 AM
With all these improvements in place, the dodge-GB/CGB needs to go. It makes him too hard to start offense against, which is something he doesnt need now that his offense improved so much.

Knight_Raime
05-05-2019, 03:13 AM
Typically when a hero gets reworked they are given nice buffs to supliment whatever nerfs they may receive (even including finicky and quirky aspects.)

This was not the case with raider. He received a nerf to stampede like all other grab based moves. This is fine. But they didn't remove dodge into GB/cgb. It is unhealthy like shove on block was. Like passive HA was.

Raider has stunning tap from dodge which already punishes bashes and leads into a mix up. Keeping dodge GB just makes him a better turtle.


Damage profile was increased too much. Nearly all of his punishes were buffed significantly. Stunning tap into raiders furry is now a vary real punish in very easy to setup situations.


Buffing his in chain heavies was fine. Buffing his opening lights was fine. Buffing his finishers is overkill.

Stampede also needs a nerf in the way of stamina drain. As soft feint to GB is now a thing. Either that or stunning taps stamina damage needs to leave someone with more than 20% of their stamina. Finally he should not be able to stampede with zero stamina. We've had issues like this with other heros and they were patched.


I like the mechanical changes of this rework. Even going as far to say hiding his indicator on stunning tap is a good change. But the devs didn't think through what they did. And now raider is over powered.

C4rmine52
05-05-2019, 02:50 PM
@UbiInsulin

I think it's way too early to make any decisions yet about nerfs. I think the ones that are complaining are the owns with no reactions, or ones that simply don't want to admit they make mistakes when fighting.

The truth is, Raider is a seriously strong anti-ganker with the introduction of HA on second and finishing heavies. I'm not too sure if the second and finishing heavies needed any buffs in damage whatsoever, but I think this will help people think twice about ganking Raiders, now.

Right now Raider has pretty much everything, besides a neutral bash/opener.

Soft feint, 500ms lights, soft feint GBs, dodge GBs, HARD-***-HITTING heavies and HA on chained heavies.

Technically speaking, Raider's rework surpasses Kensei's. Kensei still has lame 600ms lights, but Raider and Kensei are equally matched in terms of HA and UB pressure. Both have dodge attacks but Raider also has the dodge GB.

PERHAPS Kensei's Heavy to Light soft feints could be faster, but that's just my opinion. (Just to match Raider's stunning tap).

I don't want to think about removing Dodge GB for Raider just yet, because unless you're near a wall, Raider can only get a 15dmg light. The neutral zone is not safe and will gaurentee the opponent a GB during the recovery. Not only that, but the stampede charge is interuptable, so dodge GB will be more limited in 4s.

HONESTLY, I think the long recovery for neutral zones is FINE. With all Raider has right now, it would be okay if the neutral zones were only to be used to finish off opponents. (28HP or less). If it's seriously a bug that does more damage to Raider than necessary, then I'd be willing to sacrifice that for what Raider has now.

You COULD nerf how far Raider runs for the stampede charge, that's no big deal I think. That would be Raider's weakness. You could keep Dodge GB, but after that Raider would have small damage options unless near a wall or ledge.

But what if Dodge GB is removed? Well, then Raider only has a stunning tap, which is easy to parry if baited and anticipated. Raider really wouldn't be as strong of a counter attacker compared to Warden or Tiandi, or even Kensei. He'd simply be weaker in duels again.

The soft feint to GB from any heavy helps Raider get those GBs off from combos that don't always just involve the zone.

HONESTLY, I did not expect this, and I didn't think it was a good idea at first, but it DOES make those heavies a little more scary and forces the opponent to pay more attention. You could hard feint and catch people before, but it is NOT believable in duels. It helps make him a stronger duelist overall.

For those arguing that Raider was okay before, you're right. He was great in 4s because of his 50dmg chained zone and uninterubtable stampede charge.That's IT...

In 1v1s? He could not initiate an offense easily at all. LB was worse, but the only pressure Raider had was from the chained zone. And, unless you could parry lights, you weren't going to be getting many heavies off. The 600ms lights did not work, and without a LH chain then, throwing a second light in a row was a stupid mistake and always resulted in a parry at high levels.

Having options that force players to make a choice instead of turtling for everything is good. Shugoki and Hitokiri do this well with their HA. They may not have soft feints or dodge attacks, but they do force reactions, either by UB heavies or grabs or sweeps or anything. Raider was givin faster lights, which are viable now; HA on heavies for alternative mind games than the zone mixup and better anti ganking potential; faster stunning tap since 600ms was just too reactable, now it's something that players MUST watch for; soft feints from heavies for more offensive dueling options.

If I WERE to criticize Raider on something, I would say that the chained heavy damage buff is probably too strong. WITH HA on chained heavies, Raider seriously rips through people easily. 48dmg heavy finishers are seriously nuts, especially for how fast Raider is now. WITH revenge, even more damage is just crazy.

Other than that, I think the rework is fantastic. Let's wait a month or so for people to learn to respect the presence and capabilites of the reworked Raider. The next goal should be to make other characters just as viable as Raider's and Kensei's reworks.

Figure something out for Cent. Figure something out for Ara. Figure something ELSE out for LB maybe... Bring those characters in line with reworks.
I have pretty good reaction time and I also play console with people that like to spam 400-500 ms attackís. Stunning tap does too much damage for it being able to blind you and how fast it is, being blind also makes it 10x harder to react to his other stupidly fast and over powered moves. raider needs the damage buffs removed and his dodge guard break removed and heís fine, also make his stunning tap not so spammy . He didnít need all that extra crap

MCBooma16
05-05-2019, 05:24 PM
I have pretty good reaction time and I also play console with people that like to spam 400-500 ms attackís. Stunning tap does too much damage for it being able to blind you and how fast it is, being blind also makes it 10x harder to react to his other stupidly fast and over powered moves. raider needs the damage buffs removed and his dodge guard break removed and heís fine, also make his stunning tap not so spammy . He didnít need all that extra crap

I agree with you on stunning tap doing too much damage. I mean, it's only 15dmg, but the blindness pretty much gaurentees the finishing light since the animation is so fast and jerky. So, 30ish damage from a 400ms soft feint... The finishing heavy is able to be read and reacted to, just watch out for a soft feint stunning tap.

But what about stunning tap to zone? Well, that's a brutal mix up, because Raider can either 1.) Let the zone fly. 2.) Soft feint to stunning tap. 3.) Cancel to light. and 4.) Soft feint to GB.

Raider has lots of good mind game and combo potential now. I still don't feel the dodge GB needs to go quite yet, because Raider's damage game off a GB is rather weak unless near a wall or ledge.

Before, Raider was a ledge lord and powerful isolator/support in 4s, but was not too great in duels.

Now Raider is a powerful pressurer offensively, along with the aforementioned.

Again, dodge GB probably doesn't need to go, since it is a pretty valuable tool and stampede charge able to be interrupted, but I understand the frustration.

I would simply get used to canceling heavies to lights to interrupt the dodge GB.

The.All.Father
05-05-2019, 08:29 PM
I would simply get used to canceling heavies to lights to interrupt the dodge GB.

Raiders hate him, he discovered a tool which can help deal with this ULTIMATE weapon of Raider. Please don't tell them they can block 500 ms lights or i will be done with my new god ;)

Vendelkin
05-05-2019, 08:34 PM
@UbiInsulin

I think it's way too early to make any decisions yet about nerfs. I think the ones that are complaining are the owns with no reactions, or ones that simply don't want to admit they make mistakes when fighting.

The truth is, Raider is a seriously strong anti-ganker with the introduction of HA on second and finishing heavies. I'm not too sure if the second and finishing heavies needed any buffs in damage whatsoever, but I think this will help people think twice about ganking Raiders, now.

Right now Raider has pretty much everything, besides a neutral bash/opener.

Soft feint, 500ms lights, soft feint GBs, dodge GBs, HARD-***-HITTING heavies and HA on chained heavies.

Technically speaking, Raider's rework surpasses Kensei's. Kensei still has lame 600ms lights, but Raider and Kensei are equally matched in terms of HA and UB pressure. Both have dodge attacks but Raider also has the dodge GB.

PERHAPS Kensei's Heavy to Light soft feints could be faster, but that's just my opinion. (Just to match Raider's stunning tap).

I don't want to think about removing Dodge GB for Raider just yet, because unless you're near a wall, Raider can only get a 15dmg light. The neutral zone is not safe and will gaurentee the opponent a GB during the recovery. Not only that, but the stampede charge is interuptable, so dodge GB will be more limited in 4s.

HONESTLY, I think the long recovery for neutral zones is FINE. With all Raider has right now, it would be okay if the neutral zones were only to be used to finish off opponents. (28HP or less). If it's seriously a bug that does more damage to Raider than necessary, then I'd be willing to sacrifice that for what Raider has now.

You COULD nerf how far Raider runs for the stampede charge, that's no big deal I think. That would be Raider's weakness. You could keep Dodge GB, but after that Raider would have small damage options unless near a wall or ledge.

But what if Dodge GB is removed? Well, then Raider only has a stunning tap, which is easy to parry if baited and anticipated. Raider really wouldn't be as strong of a counter attacker compared to Warden or Tiandi, or even Kensei. He'd simply be weaker in duels again.

The soft feint to GB from any heavy helps Raider get those GBs off from combos that don't always just involve the zone.

HONESTLY, I did not expect this, and I didn't think it was a good idea at first, but it DOES make those heavies a little more scary and forces the opponent to pay more attention. You could hard feint and catch people before, but it is NOT believable in duels. It helps make him a stronger duelist overall.

For those arguing that Raider was okay before, you're right. He was great in 4s because of his 50dmg chained zone and uninterubtable stampede charge.That's IT...

In 1v1s? He could not initiate an offense easily at all. LB was worse, but the only pressure Raider had was from the chained zone. And, unless you could parry lights, you weren't going to be getting many heavies off. The 600ms lights did not work, and without a LH chain then, throwing a second light in a row was a stupid mistake and always resulted in a parry at high levels.

Having options that force players to make a choice instead of turtling for everything is good. Shugoki and Hitokiri do this well with their HA. They may not have soft feints or dodge attacks, but they do force reactions, either by UB heavies or grabs or sweeps or anything. Raider was givin faster lights, which are viable now; HA on heavies for alternative mind games than the zone mixup and better anti ganking potential; faster stunning tap since 600ms was just too reactable, now it's something that players MUST watch for; soft feints from heavies for more offensive dueling options.

If I WERE to criticize Raider on something, I would say that the chained heavy damage buff is probably too strong. WITH HA on chained heavies, Raider seriously rips through people easily. 48dmg heavy finishers are seriously nuts, especially for how fast Raider is now. WITH revenge, even more damage is just crazy.

Other than that, I think the rework is fantastic. Let's wait a month or so for people to learn to respect the presence and capabilites of the reworked Raider. The next goal should be to make other characters just as viable as Raider's and Kensei's reworks.

Figure something out for Cent. Figure something out for Ara. Figure something ELSE out for LB maybe... Bring those characters in line with reworks.

THIS.... is a good post well thought out. And just effectively reposting it. Your opinion may not be my exact opinion. But this is a solid way to discuss it.

Baggin_
05-05-2019, 09:05 PM
THIS.... is a good post well thought out. And just effectively reposting it. Your opinion may not be my exact opinion. But this is a solid way to discuss it.

It is a good post. However it's still to strong. What if instead of removing it all together they made it so you couldn't Cgb on dodge. That would be a lot more fair.