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View Full Version : You buffed health/Armor by almost double and nerfed damage from 70 to 40



sandpants
04-27-2019, 04:01 PM
Can someone at Massive/Redstorm who is making these changes
take 30 minutes of their time

to think out loud.

P.S. Oh we also get % armor stats on gear. Full circle bois. From DPS meta to TD1 "get 4k firearms to unlock these talents and then stack Toughness"

SgtDmX
04-27-2019, 05:59 PM
And they also nerfed most DPS talents that had any impact. The nerfs to DPS talents was much needed, and the changes to survivability was needed as well imo, but to change the PvP damage modifier from 70% to 40% at the same time? That's just crazy...

Cannot understand how this doesn't raise an eyebrow or two at Massive...

krfloll
04-27-2019, 06:04 PM
It's pretty disappointing, but I get the idea. I think that if they want to keep this change, they should up the PVP HS Damage modifier to 100% (30% higher then it is on live, for clarity). Highly skilled players get the Fast TTK they want, but your average player vs average player gets the running around in healing circle meta they seem to want.

SgtDmX
04-27-2019, 06:14 PM
It's pretty disappointing, but I get the idea. I think that if they want to keep this change, they should up the PVP HS Damage modifier to 100% (30% higher then it is on live, for clarity). Highly skilled players get the Fast TTK they want, but your average player vs average player gets the running around in healing circle meta they seem to want.

They should try without the change to PvP damage modifier. They already increased survivability and nerfed DPS potential. They should have left it there and see how it turns out. If the TTK is still too low, make small adjustments.

krfloll
04-27-2019, 06:16 PM
They should try without the change to PvP damage modifier. They already increased survivability and nerfed DPS potential. They should have left it there and see how it turns out. If the TTK is still too low, make small adjustments.

I can't argue that. I'm of the opinion that the TTK on live is too high, personally. Some kind of HS DMG tradeoff would be nice. There aren't a lot of shooters that reward holding the mouse down and aiming for the body quite as much as this game does.

Diedel443
04-27-2019, 06:18 PM
I can't argue that. I'm of the opinion that the TTK on live is too high, personally. Some kind of HS DMG tradeoff would be nice. There aren't a lot of shooters that reward holding the mouse down and aiming for the body quite as much as this game does.

They are tuning far to many variables at the same time, you NEVER do that, at least not if you want to figure out what is going on.

sandpants
04-27-2019, 06:22 PM
They are tuning far to many variables at the same time, you NEVER do that, at least not if you want to figure out what is going on.

You can spitball numbers without much effort.

People are going from 230k total health to about 400k total health, and damage is reduced

1.75x Health
0.58x Damage.

Since TTK is Health/damage (per second)

It's basically 1.75/0.58 ~ 3x

TTK in Normalised right now is triple.

SgtDmX
04-27-2019, 06:39 PM
You can spitball numbers without much effort.

200% crit damage and 100% weapon damage at 0 armor.

If that made it into the full game at launch, I don't think the devs do much spitballing at all.
They just put random numbers in and see what happens.

sandpants
04-27-2019, 06:48 PM
200% crit damage and 100% weapon damage at 0 armor.

If that made it into the full game at launch, I don't think the devs do much spitballing at all.
They just put random numbers in and see what happens.

Fair point.

edible1
04-28-2019, 02:33 AM
You die in 1 second on live so it will be 3 seconds after the patch. Not really that big a deal.

SgtDmX
04-28-2019, 06:58 AM
You die in 1 second on live so it will be 3 seconds after the patch. Not really that big a deal.

You can't look at it that way, it's not that simple. An extra second to react means you can dodge, the other guy has to reload, you have time to run to cover, heal up, and reset the fight, and it can go back and forth for quite a while. The TTK can go from 1 second to 10+, just by lowering the damage taken by 10-30%.

sandpants
04-28-2019, 09:11 AM
You die in 1 second on live so it will be 3 seconds after the patch. Not really that big a deal.
Well most people are smart and use dodges and cover and kite people around and heal up, instead of standing like deer on the road waiting to get run over. So those 3 seconds go to 60s.

C4C-Markus-752
04-28-2019, 12:04 PM
We will have to wait and see what they do with PvP. The modifier can be easily changed if they feel it's off.

They also introduced per weapon class balancing and buffed Assault rifles by around 15% iirc. That gives them slightly less loss of damage than then other classes.

I also feel like Snipers might actually become balanced in PvP now as the Nemesis (not nerfed yet at least) will still be able to OHK players after the patch so you still have this type of gameplay but without the scopeless cheap way of killing people in a snapshot. The normal Bolt-Actions could be tweaked to deal more body damage in PvP to balance out the fact they are not able to OHK players anymore.

Overall balance was off by a long shot with all those heavy damage stacking talents like Strained, Berserk, Unstoppable Force etc.

Now I think Red Storm and Massive done it again and got a classic "double nerf" where Massive went ahead and nerfed Talents for PvE purposes which affects PvP as well and Red Storm went ahead and put in modifers so now we are stuck with PvP TTK getting a "nerf" from both sides.

I really do hope the modifier get's increased again to something a bit less harsh. 70%-40% is almost a 50% reduction in damage. I could see a 70-55% reduction working out.

And the most important thing we shouldn't forget:

Chem Launcher Heal doesn't stack anymore. That means people, especially now due to the higher armor amounts will have to heal for longer times.

SakariFoxx
04-30-2019, 08:27 AM
the game has no damage mitigation . there is no actual armor in game, so in order to increase time to kill they need to make the numbers larger for health and armor and the damage values smaller.

not sure why people can't figure this out.

D-Y-N-4-M-O
04-30-2019, 12:45 PM
Increase TTK and the need for cover in a cover based shooter becomes less desirable.

TTK was fine.

The worst thing you can do is knee jerk it.

Nothing changes.

Zimbo78
04-30-2019, 01:11 PM
TTK was horrible.
We don't play COD or PUBG.
This game needs a bit of survivability.

D-Y-N-4-M-O
04-30-2019, 01:36 PM
TTK was horrible.
We don't play COD or PUBG.
This game needs a bit of survivability.

“This game needs a bit of survivability”

It already has that. It’s called cover.

sandpants
04-30-2019, 06:47 PM
the game has no damage mitigation . there is no actual armor in game, so in order to increase time to kill they need to make the numbers larger for health and armor and the damage values smaller.

not sure why people can't figure this out.

You could also just increase health and armor without decreasing damage to the point where it triples the TTK.
Not sure why people can't figure this out.

SinisterJoint
04-30-2019, 07:43 PM
You can't look at it that way, it's not that simple. An extra second to react means you can dodge, the other guy has to reload, you have time to run to cover, heal up, and reset the fight, and it can go back and forth for quite a while. The TTK can go from 1 second to 10+, just by lowering the damage taken by 10-30%.

Since when was pvp meant to be instantaneous combustion? I don't understand the problem with what you are saying. YOu feel you should be able to kill someone in 1 second and anything more than that is bad?


I'm glad they made this change. This means that there is no predetermined results from a sneak attack, or any other attack for that matter. PvP should be exhilarating, tense and fun. Skill should play a roll, not just "i shot first" Like others have said, this isnt CoD

and yes, it is that simple.

D-Y-N-4-M-O
04-30-2019, 11:38 PM
Since when was pvp meant to be instantaneous combustion? I don't understand the problem with what you are saying. YOu feel you should be able to kill someone in 1 second and anything more than that is bad?


I'm glad they made this change. This means that there is no predetermined results from a sneak attack, or any other attack for that matter. PvP should be exhilarating, tense and fun. Skill should play a roll, not just "i shot first" Like others have said, this isnt CoD

and yes, it is that simple.

"Skill should play a roll, not just "i shot first" Like others have said, this isnt CoD" - All you're actually doing is rewarding bad positioning, zero tactical awareness, none use of cover & zero ability to manage flanking (both offensively & defensively) etc etc. That, my friend is not "skill".

"i shot first" - If you'd actually played any PvP you'd know that just isn't true at all, also there are still multiple ways to one shot kill players.

Yes, it isn't "COD" however its still a shooter. You shoot, you kill, players die.

sandpants
05-01-2019, 11:46 PM
Especially the part where the TTK hit auto weapons the most, whilst high spike weapons like snipers are still pretty good.

Guess how well that will end...