PDA

View Full Version : Let's talk about pace



Oddy._.
04-27-2019, 04:38 AM
So, looking at this whole rework debacle. One thing I'm taking away from this is a few questions, this all left me very confused.

Question one: How long does it REALLY take for a hero to ACTUALLY be worked on? (I.E. Reworks or number tweaks.)

Question two: Looking at the patch notes for season 10, does anyone else feel like the reworks for both Raider and Lawbringer were little more than glorified tweaks that could've been done with only a few weeks of thought put in?

Question three: Do the devs actually look and listen to community feedback and or take inspiration from any of the communities ideas?

These questions may come off as a little self-serving or bias, but I've been in deep thought about this whole situation and have begun wondering if it honestly takes the devs 2+ years to change a few number values or if they actually struggle to think on their own volition. Out of the tweaks I've seen, these two are the most deceptive in my opinion. For example: It wouldn't take the community, who's played this game for a long time, to figure shove on block is bad - turn it off - done. It's as simple as taking a number value and turning it from one to zero.

And what I mean by inspiration as well is taking the fundamentals off player or hero or whatevers' ideas and building OFF them, not carbon copying them onto someone else, point being, LB now has Shugoki's lights, literally just brought over from Shugo and pasted onto LB now... That's a rework?

I'm going on like this because I'm genuinely concerned about season 10 being probably the roughest spot in FHs history. I get it "Wait and see" or "Oh you're being a conspiracy theorist." Not at all, this is coming from a fan who's played the game since the first two alphas.

garr1999
04-27-2019, 05:06 AM
I'm rep 21 with lawbringer and rep 14 with raider and
Tbh you are right these are not reworks but more like weekly tweaks
anyone with the right kind of thinking can see that
it felt like they put lawbro in the gutter and put
"Chad" raider into a whole new level of just what the heck is damage I am the damage
all I'm saying is this "rework" is totally bs, bad and rly lazy for what IT is

Knight_Raime
04-27-2019, 11:21 AM
Q1) There is no proper way to answer that for several reasons. Each hero is different requiring different types of adjustments.

Q2) I'm sure you're not the only one to think that. But boiling things down to "it's just numbers" is falsely misrepresenting the situation. We play a game where the viability of a move is dictated by 100ms of difference. Small tweaks/numbers can have drastic effects or unintended side effects. The accidental buff to dodges that happened a few months back is easily the most recent example of this. Due to a change the devs made else where dodges ended up some how having more effective I frames. Which nerfed all bash based offense across the board. Bashe's like conq's who were borderline unreactable became reactable for higher tier players.

Q3) Yes to both accounts. Shove on block is being removed per community request. Parry changes made back in season 5 were made per community request. Pommel strike on Kensei was an idea born from the community. There are so so so so many changes that have happened at the behest of community request and a handful of ideas made from the community. Just because the developers don't do every single thing we ask of them doesn't mean they don't hear us or value our input.

I STRONGLY encourage you to actually pick up some classes to learn programming at a basic level. And then try to imagine that at a higher level. But also having to deal with several other factors. Like the communities input. What the dev team wants out of a particular hero. etc. Arm chair developing is what you're doing.

If you truly have been playing this game since the alpha then you cannot seriously believe season 10 is going to be the worst spot this games ever been in. Pre season 5 this game was entirely different and it was plagued with several terrible design choices and mechanics. I don't buy your concern at all.

watsonclan335u
04-27-2019, 03:42 PM
While I do agree with Raime that the game is in a good spot rn especially with revenge being an actual deterrent from ganking again, however: the devs on this project have always been reluctant to make light adjustments to balance in a timely fashion. That single factor has resulted in the alienation of a sizable portion of the game’s population. In this case a lack of action forces an impression of indifference.

UbiInsulin
04-27-2019, 07:31 PM
So, looking at this whole rework debacle. One thing I'm taking away from this is a few questions, this all left me very confused.

Question one: How long does it REALLY take for a hero to ACTUALLY be worked on? (I.E. Reworks or number tweaks.)

Question two: Looking at the patch notes for season 10, does anyone else feel like the reworks for both Raider and Lawbringer were little more than glorified tweaks that could've been done with only a few weeks of thought put in?

Question three: Do the devs actually look and listen to community feedback and or take inspiration from any of the communities ideas?

These questions may come off as a little self-serving or bias, but I've been in deep thought about this whole situation and have begun wondering if it honestly takes the devs 2+ years to change a few number values or if they actually struggle to think on their own volition. Out of the tweaks I've seen, these two are the most deceptive in my opinion. For example: It wouldn't take the community, who's played this game for a long time, to figure shove on block is bad - turn it off - done. It's as simple as taking a number value and turning it from one to zero.

And what I mean by inspiration as well is taking the fundamentals off player or hero or whatevers' ideas and building OFF them, not carbon copying them onto someone else, point being, LB now has Shugoki's lights, literally just brought over from Shugo and pasted onto LB now... That's a rework?

I'm going on like this because I'm genuinely concerned about season 10 being probably the roughest spot in FHs history. I get it "Wait and see" or "Oh you're being a conspiracy theorist." Not at all, this is coming from a fan who's played the game since the first two alphas.

The devs have discussed a few times how they regret rushing into balance changes during the earlier seasons. Community input is a huge part of the decisionmaking process, but there's also their own thinking on the situation. And there's often a whole range of community opinions (tourney players vs. new players), not just one community consensus.

In terms of changing a value from a 1 to a 0, I do not think anything is quite that simple (I don't program myself, but that sounds simplistic to me). But I think your concern is that smaller tweaks shouldn't take long to implement. That's reasonable, but if you think a hero is deserving of big changes, then it might make sense to make one big pass at the problem instead of introducing more variables with smaller tweaks along the way.

Oddy._.
04-27-2019, 07:59 PM
@Ubilnsulin, one big pass as in a rework? Because I don't really see much different with LB at this point, he just seems faster and can access his unblockable one move faster.

@Raime, opinions will be opinions. We don't need you to plant your flag and be a moral crusader on every single detail anyone ever says about anything. So you're telling me it took Ubisoft this long to take LBs lights and make them faster? You're telling me it took hundreds of fans telling Ubisoft to take out shove on block and it took them THIS long? You didn't answer any of my question, just dodged them in your cocky virtuous fashion. End of Discussion.

Knight_Raime
04-27-2019, 08:20 PM
@Ubilnsulin, one big pass as in a rework? Because I don't really see much different with LB at this point, he just seems faster and can access his unblockable one move faster.

@Raime, opinions will be opinions. We don't need you to plant your flag and be a moral crusader on every single detail anyone ever says about anything. So you're telling me it took Ubisoft this long to take LBs lights and make them faster? You're telling me it took hundreds of fans telling Ubisoft to take out shove on block and it took them THIS long? You didn't answer any of my question, just dodged them in your cocky virtuous fashion. End of Discussion.

I did absolutely answer them. I just didn't give you answers you could easily shoot down. So you resorted to attacking me instead of addressing the points I made.

Oddy._.
04-27-2019, 08:29 PM
Oh you and "everyone is attacking me" spiel, telling me "Oh why don't you try programming." Is not a valid response, that's something kindergartners argue with. You're retorting my arguments as if I made this post to attack Ubisoft when in the above I stated against that. So end of discussion, the adults will resume talking.

Knight_Raime
04-27-2019, 08:35 PM
Oh you and "everyone is attacking me" spiel, telling me "Oh why don't you try programming." Is not a valid response, that's something kindergartners argue with. You're retorting my arguments as if I made this post to attack Ubisoft when in the above I stated against that. So end of discussion, the adults will resume talking.

Still not addressing the actual responses I made to your questions. Still attacking me.
You can't pull the moral high ground card with me when you're discrediting the devs work saying it's just numbers and said changes are simple.

Oddy._.
04-27-2019, 08:47 PM
If you truly believe I'm attacking you, don't come to my thread and white knight then cry wolf when anyone calls you out. Report me if you think I'm attacking you since it's not allowed and let the mods decide. Other than that good day.

Knight_Raime
04-27-2019, 09:02 PM
If you truly believe I'm attacking you, don't come to my thread and white knight then cry wolf when anyone calls you out. Report me if you think I'm attacking you since it's not allowed and let the mods decide. Other than that good day.

Choosing to address my attitude or random fluff in my statement over the actual responses I gave to your questions is attacking the person instead of the argument being made. Which is what I was pointing out. But I'll do you a solid and restate my replies with out all the fluff and streamlined.

Q1) there is no straight forward single answer.

Q2) I do not feel this way. The developers specifically avoid rushing out small adjustments. Both because changes can have unforseen ramifications (see the accidental dodge buff) and we as a community gave back lash because of it.

Q3) yes they listen and yes there are some ideas from us in game.