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SenBotsu893
04-24-2019, 01:49 PM
a simple Axe is the last weapon i would associate with the samurai.

it boggles my mind why not the obviouse choice fell to the Yari wich was probably more often used than the Katana in Japanese Warefare.

even if the devs wanted something more obscure they could have used so many other Options: Tonfas, Nagamaki, jitte or sai, tekko-kagi, sasumata...

any of these would be way more eastern than just the ono.

Illyrian_King
04-24-2019, 02:40 PM
Well the yari is basically a spear ... pretty common in feudal japanese warfare. Nobushi is wielding a naginata, which also basically a spear. Of course it is not the same, but there isn't a lot of difference. Also the tonfa is rather a martial arts tool then an actual battle tool.

I personally would have been okay with the masakari, if it wasn't that big. The modell from the trailer must weight at very least 20kg. This is WAY too heavy for any real use. It is WAY to slow and WAY too impractical. It offers no real defensive options. Also he/she wears next to no armour, which would make her more like a bloody sacrefice to the enemy, then a real thread.

I would have been alright with him/her, if he/she wore massive amounts of armour (more then kensei) to compensate the complete lack in defense and actually allowing him/her to do wide swings without getting both arms chopped of mid-way.

Hormly
04-24-2019, 03:14 PM
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Siegfried-Z
04-24-2019, 03:17 PM
a simple Axe is the last weapon i would associate with the samurai.

it boggles my mind why not the obviouse choice fell to the Yari wich was probably more often used than the Katana in Japanese Warefare.

even if the devs wanted something more obscure they could have used so many other Options: Tonfas, Nagamaki, jitte or sai, tekko-kagi, sasumata...

any of these would be way more eastern than just the ono.

Nobushi Naginata is already pretty close to the Yari and the Nagamaki is too close to the Nodachi. So i am not surprise they didnt choose these one.

Tonfa, Sai and tekko kagi doesnt fit with a Tank type of heroe. They are more fitting with assassins or hybrids. So i am not surprised either.

As Sakura concept is clearly inspired from a Japanese Myth.
I am ok with her using a simple massive Ono.



I personally would have been okay with the masakari, if it wasn't that big. The modell from the trailer must weight at very least 20kg. This is WAY too heavy for any real use. It is WAY to slow and WAY too impractical. It offers no real defensive options. Also he/she wears next to no armour, which would make her more like a bloody sacrefice to the enemy, then a real thread.

I would have been alright with him/her, if he/she wore massive amounts of armour (more then kensei) to compensate the complete lack in defense and actually allowing him/her to do wide swings without getting both arms chopped of mid-way.

Hum it looks heavy thats true but not more that the HL Claymore or Shugoki Kanabo i think.

It looks a bit too big for her but as she looks so, unreal.. i mean Sakura is clearly a witch, i gess logic doesnt apply to her.

That being said, her armor looks pretty close to non existant thats true. Maybe with some armor sets she gonna have at least wooden one like Kensei.

Illyrian_King
04-24-2019, 03:39 PM
Hum it looks heavy thats true but not more that the HL Claymore or Shugoki Kanabo i think.

It looks a bit too big for her but as she looks so, unreal.. i mean Sakura is clearly a witch, i gess logic doesnt apply to her.

That being said, her armor looks pretty close to non existant thats true. Maybe with some armor sets she gonna have at least wooden one like Kensei.

The averge claymore weights around 4.5kg. It is not as heavy as you might think. But sakura's axe has much more metall on it. The surface is much bigger and thicker. Me personally, I am a metallurgy student. I really estimate the axe around 18-20kg.
Also the weight contribution plays a big role. If the whole weight was focused on a very tight point near the hilt, it would be at least easier. But in the case of the axe, the whole weight is distributed on the end of a long staff.

Her concept might be "supernatural", but still this equipment combination would end her spooky rampage in a blink.

I go to the gym for 4 years now. Wielding a staff with 20kg on one end is not plausible ... I have tried it ^^

Okita_Soji..
04-24-2019, 04:33 PM
As someone who loves the Japanese culture, I don't like the weapon shown in the trailer. It look to much like something Conan would use, very fantasy. Most other heroes at least samurai ones have some sense of realism. Maybe it just that one head on the axe that looks that way. I thought it looked different in the picture with the weapons stabbed into the ground.

SenBotsu893
04-24-2019, 04:42 PM
i knew the similarty between naginata and yari would be brought up. yes both are polearms with a pointy sharp end. but then again you could argue that the Battleaxe is exactly the same that Raider uses. And the Axe type just fits more to the Vickings.

well here is hoping that in the Year 4 seasonpass it will be possible to shout: MY NAME IS GYOUBU MASATAKA ONIWA!

Siegfried-Z
04-24-2019, 05:00 PM
The averge claymore weights around 4.5kg. It is not as heavy as you might think. But sakura's axe has much more metall on it. The surface is much bigger and thicker. Me personally, I am a metallurgy student. I really estimate the axe around 18-20kg.
Also the weight contribution plays a big role. If the whole weight was focused on a very tight point near the hilt, it would be at least easier. But in the case of the axe, the whole weight is distributed on the end of a long staff.

Her concept might be "supernatural", but still this equipment combination would end her spooky rampage in a blink.

I go to the gym for 4 years now. Wielding a staff with 20kg on one end is not plausible ... I have tried it ^^

I have no clue about metallurgy so i believe you ^^

We gonna have to see how they made her moove on thursday too. Because in the trailer, when she raise her axe and slam it down, you can see her moovment is done using the weight of the axe more than her own strengh.

If she hit slowly, maybe it can be "kind of" realistic. But then i am wondering how she is going to defend her self .. :/

In a very realistic world she could not even feint anything with a massive axe like this.

Yeah i am going to the gym too, i am not going to try, i know i cant 😅

Illyrian_King
04-24-2019, 05:12 PM
We gonna have to see how they made her moove on thursday too. Because in the trailer, when she raise her axe and slam it down, you can see her moovment is done using the weight of the axe more than her own strengh.

If she hit slowly, maybe it can be "kind of" realistic. But then i am wondering how she is going to defend her self .. :/

In a very realistic world she could not even feint anything with a massive axe like this.

Yeah I am really curious about her and espcially about Roarbringer, since he was my main till Vortiger.

In a realistic world you wouldn't swing such an axe, but if you did ... it must be unblockable AND unparriable.

Dodge this shiit or it's gonna eat you alive ^^

Ohhh I already see PK completely annihilating Sakura's heaviest attacks with a swift parry ;b

Siegfried-Z
04-24-2019, 06:39 PM
Yeah I am really curious about her and espcially about Roarbringer, since he was my main till Vortiger.

In a realistic world you wouldn't swing such an axe, but if you did ... it must be unblockable AND unparriable.

Dodge this shiit or it's gonna eat you alive ^^

Ohhh I already see PK completely annihilating Sakura's heaviest attacks with a swift parry ;b

I cant wait for LB and Raider rework too.I dont play LB but he deserve it for a while.
I dont play Raider either but maybe i will give him a shot if i like the rework and i cant wait to see his Stampede becoming interuptible, i am so tired of this moove lol

Imagine if Sakura heavies are undodgable 😱

Haha its gonna be funny to see PK got a parry on that yes. Cmon Sakura axe is as big as PK and shinobi together XD

Illyrian_King
04-24-2019, 08:10 PM
I cant wait for LB and Raider rework too.I dont play LB but he deserve it for a while.
I dont play Raider either but maybe i will give him a shot if i like the rework and i cant wait to see his Stampede becoming interuptible, i am so tired of this moove lol

Imagine if Sakura heavies are undodgable 😱

Haha its gonna be funny to see PK got a parry on that yes. Cmon Sakura axe is as big as PK and shinobi together XD

Oh Lawdaddy couldn't please his wifes for so long ... maybe tommorow ^^
I really want to see hyperarmour on him and something that embraces his pure force and break through power. Something that simply lets him punch through, not super fast mix-up with balerina agility. Don't let PK parry him ... it's simple as that.

The speculations about Sakura's kit are pretty wild on reddit.
I expect the worst ^^
I really hope it's pure punch through instead of lightning fast.

Siegfried-Z
04-24-2019, 08:17 PM
Oh Lawdaddy couldn't please his wifes for so long ... maybe tommorow ^^
I really want to see hyperarmour on him and something that embraces his pure force and break through power. Something that simply lets him punch through, not super fast mix-up with balerina agility. Don't let PK parry him ... it's simple as that.

The speculations about Sakura's kit are pretty wild on reddit.
I expect the worst ^^
I really hope it's pure punch through instead of lightning fast.

I think they are going to give LB a good rework. Hope so at least.

Tbh honest if Sakura got a fast light chain and some dodge attack like JJ i would give up about balancing in this game i think.
To me a tank should not rely on Dodge or light. Imo tanks should not even have a double lights chain. They should rely on others mech and pure force. As Shugo does now (even if i dont like his DE as it is now).

I cant wait to see her kit tomorrow.

Illyrian_King
04-24-2019, 09:15 PM
I think they are going to give LB a good rework. Hope so at least.

Tbh honest if Sakura got a fast light chain and some dodge attack like JJ i would give up about balancing in this game i think.
To me a tank should not rely on Dodge or light. Imo tanks should not even have a double lights chain. They should rely on others mech and pure force. As Shugo does now (even if i dont like his DE as it is now).

I cant wait to see her kit tomorrow.

You are completely right! Shugo with his hyperarmour and hug is pretty punchy. Even if that fully charged heavy unblockable would be unparriable for at very least 90% of the whole cast ... but how to balance that?
The problem with him is, that he only has that mix-up. It's a dirty 50/50 that can be roled away. He would need more moves, same as PK. She would also be okay, if she had some more tools to make her more diverse.

What I definitely don't like is, when a gimmick move like Shug hug or Lawbringer flip become the main damage tool. Basically as Shug is love frenzy and spamming hugs. It is not cool to hug your enemies to death instead of using that giant freakin club with spikes. I really fear, they will give Lawbringer a mix-up into flip, so every second hit is a throw over the shoulder ... how authentic ;b
I want to crush bones with a halberd/poleaxe !!!
Such exotic moves are spicy if the appear only sometimes here and there.

Siegfried-Z
04-24-2019, 11:48 PM
You are completely right! Shugo with his hyperarmour and hug is pretty punchy. Even if that fully charged heavy unblockable would be unparriable for at very least 90% of the whole cast ... but how to balance that?
The problem with him is, that he only has that mix-up. It's a dirty 50/50 that can be roled away. He would need more moves, same as PK. She would also be okay, if she had some more tools to make her more diverse.

What I definitely don't like is, when a gimmick move like Shug hug or Lawbringer flip become the main damage tool. Basically as Shug is love frenzy and spamming hugs. It is not cool to hug your enemies to death instead of using that giant freakin club with spikes. I really fear, they will give Lawbringer a mix-up into flip, so every second hit is a throw over the shoulder ... how authentic ;b
I want to crush bones with a halberd/poleaxe !!!
Such exotic moves are spicy if the appear only sometimes here and there.

Totally agree.
These kind of exotic mooves should not be so easy to pull off.

For example Shaman bite or Valk sweep mech are better. Its harder for them to catch their opponent with it and thats why it feels good when it works.

One of the best example is also Aramusha Blocade (it is different because this is a defensive moove but im sure you got the idea).

There are others example but i took these one as Valk, Shaman and Musha are all 3 among my 4 main heroes with Kensei.

I am still looking for a tank fitting my playstyle thats also why i have big expectations for these Hitokiri (and damn i would like to know how it feels to main a S tier heroe one day ^^).

To came back at LB, him and Raider gonna have the same kind of rework i think.

Removal of some game breaking mech like shove on block for LB. Maybe less bombs in his feats too.
But in another hand more Combo, an improvment of his UB mix up, 500ms side light opener and some HA. It would be Nice.

Playing_Mantis
04-25-2019, 07:35 AM
I'm actually thinking its awesome to use a non stereotypical weapon for the new samurai personally. as long as it has no ****ing shield I'm cool.

Vendelkin
04-25-2019, 08:05 AM
Honestly adding the WuLin faction basically stole our japanese weapon types and style selection....
That being said varied forms of tonfa were used in actual combat, tho i would call those an assassin weapon.

I was favoring a heavy handed boxer/kick boxer using Tekko before we knew it was an axe for the role of heavy. woulda been unique to have a slower but heavy hitting fighter. And the tekko idea could be extended with metal arm guards to emphasize the heavy nature.

My second hope was the Sansetsukon.

Illyrian_King
04-25-2019, 01:37 PM
Totally agree.
These kind of exotic mooves should not be so easy to pull off.

For example Shaman bite or Valk sweep mech are better. Its harder for them to catch their opponent with it and thats why it feels good when it works.

One of the best example is also Aramusha Blocade (it is different because this is a defensive moove but im sure you got the idea).

There are others example but i took these one as Valk, Shaman and Musha are all 3 among my 4 main heroes with Kensei.

I am still looking for a tank fitting my playstyle thats also why i have big expectations for these Hitokiri (and damn i would like to know how it feels to main a S tier heroe one day ^^).

To came back at LB, him and Raider gonna have the same kind of rework i think.

Removal of some game breaking mech like shove on block for LB. Maybe less bombs in his feats too.
But in another hand more Combo, an improvment of his UB mix up, 500ms side light opener and some HA. It would be Nice.

Yeah I get what you mean ^^

Just some hours ago I read on a gaming website, that Hitokiri will be able to pull off some kind of black smoke that terrorizes her opponents ... I hope this is not true :nonchalance:

But for LB rework they surely made all his lights 500ms, HOPEFULLY hyperarmour (I mean just look at him), maybe somethiung punchy that can't get parried (eventhough I don't expect that) and some incredibly basic 50/50 mix-up ... maybe a heavy into shove or flip

Siegfried-Z
04-25-2019, 02:18 PM
Yeah I get what you mean ^^

Just some hours ago I read on a gaming website, that Hitokiri will be able to pull off some kind of black smoke that terrorizes her opponents ... I hope this is not true :nonchalance:

But for LB rework they surely made all his lights 500ms, HOPEFULLY hyperarmour (I mean just look at him), maybe somethiung punchy that can't get parried (eventhough I don't expect that) and some incredibly basic 50/50 mix-up ... maybe a heavy into shove or flip

Maybe this balck smoke is going to be a feat .. we gonna see in a few hours now anyway ^^

I just saw the last LB exec, maybe hes gonna get a Kick haha

Illyrian_King
04-25-2019, 02:25 PM
Maybe this balck smoke is going to be a feat .. we gonna see in a few hours now anyway ^^

I just saw the last LB exec, maybe hes gonna get a Kick haha

Lol that would be it ^^

Okita_Soji..
04-26-2019, 06:11 PM
So after seeing the Sakura in action the axe looks worse than in the trailer. Why would they give the samurai a battle axe straight out of a Conan comic. No only does it not fit the hero or faction, how fast and effortless she was swinging it was disappointing. When Raider or Shugoki swing it looks like they are putting some effort in. Sakura's axe is like its a prop and made of foam. They said she is heavy because of the weapon not her size but it doesn't show. Again why a battle axe? If they keep making heroes will the Vikings get a rapier?

This game is a shell of what it once was and how it was marketed. Fast approaching Dynasty Warriors level of ridiculousness. How much more fantasy sh** are they going to put in this game?

Lastly how come the samurai don't wear armor? I can understand if they want to make them mobile but armor can be made that way. Kensei looks the part as does Orochi but everyone else is wearing robes with rope holding everything together.

Illyrian_King
04-26-2019, 06:59 PM
So after seeing the Sakura in action the axe looks worse than in the trailer. Why would they give the samurai a battle axe straight out of a Conan comic. No only does it not fit the hero or faction, how fast and effortless she was swinging it was disappointing. When Raider or Shugoki swing it looks like they are putting some effort in. Sakura's axe is like its a prop and made of foam. They said she is heavy because of the weapon not her size but it doesn't show. Again why a battle axe? If they keep making heroes will the Vikings get a rapier?

This game is a shell of what it once was and how it was marketed. Fast approaching Dynasty Warriors level of ridiculousness. How much more fantasy sh** are they going to put in this game?

Lastly how come the samurai don't wear armor? I can understand if they want to make them mobile but armor can be made that way. Kensei looks the part as does Orochi but everyone else is wearing robes with rope holding everything together.

Yes and do you know why? For the same reason why Lawbringer and Raider have these incredibly unauthentic fast animations.

Because otherwise it gets parried. So the only plausible solution can just be speeding a mountain on a stick up to 500ms per swing right? ^^
But it would be unauthentic and game breaking, if a PK with her mighty toothpicks couldn't parry literally everything, even from guys twice her size and mass ;)
I mean medieval greatswords where not meant to crush through block and defense, but to give enemies and easier parry due to their lack in speed right?

I oftenly proposed to give the heaviest of Heroes (like Lawbringer, Shugoki, Raider, Sakura) a special property to their heavy attacks to have immunity to parries (blocking still possible) and maybe even punish them with stamina, damage or whatever (this would need proper testing and tweaks, but the idea is clear). But for this power they would remain slow and believable for their mass.
Parries are the reason why everything has to be under 500ms !!!
Otherwise offense is shut down!

If these slow Heroes simply didn't have to worry about parries, when throwing out that slow attacks combined with higher block damage, it would be authentic and a new fair layer of gameplay. Heck ... weapons like halberds are even made to hook weapons.

But no ^^
When proposing that, I almost got clubbed to death in the comments. "Parries are a core mechanic in this game" ... aha what a groundbreaking skill to parry an 1000ms attack ;)

That's why Lawbringer needs to get a most shiitty rework and the whole game needs to become unfittingly fast and ugly so things "work" ... funny or not, but simply work somehow. 50/50 need to appear a lot and things need to be unreactable and just prediction needs to rule.

Have fun y'all.

Okita_Soji..
04-26-2019, 08:21 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the new Viking hero is named Mjolnir and he can shoot lightning out of the hammer/maul and he can fly to boot.

Illyrian_King
04-26-2019, 09:03 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the new Viking hero is named Mjolnir and he can shoot lightning out of the hammer/maul and he can fly to boot.

I don't know, but I can swear to you that his lights won't be above 500ms. Even if he was swinging a cow by holding it's leg ;b

rottmeister
04-27-2019, 12:01 AM
I actually really like that the devs didn't take the 100% historically accurate route. I think the weapon looks amazing and would definitely fit someone who previously was an executioner, however I can see your point of wanting other weapons for a potential Samurai hero. The devs also showed a teaser image of all the upcoming weapons (of year of the Harbinger) a while ago so they couldn't really change everything last minute. I think the hero has a very unique moveset and has a lot of potential. We can't change the decisions the devs have made surrounding potential heroes. I like that you provided an array of weapons you'd like to have in game for a potential new hero. If any of our feedback or suggestions reach the devs it might inspire them? I mean, I'm pretty sure they listened after the year 1 dlc (and wu lin) when fans were in a bit of an outrage at the sheer amount of assassins that got added to the game because now we basically have a full year of heavy heroes.

UbiInsulin
04-27-2019, 01:07 AM
I actually really like that the devs didn't take the 100% historically accurate route. I think the weapon looks amazing and would definitely fit someone who previously was an executioner, however I can see your point of wanting other weapons for a potential Samurai hero. The devs also showed a teaser image of all the upcoming weapons (of year of the Harbinger) a while ago so they couldn't really change everything last minute. I think the hero has a very unique moveset and has a lot of potential. We can't change the decisions the devs have made surrounding potential heroes. I like that you provided an array of weapons you'd like to have in game for a potential new hero. If any of our feedback or suggestions reach the devs it might inspire them? I mean, I'm pretty sure they listened after the year 1 dlc (and wu lin) when fans were in a bit of an outrage at the sheer amount of assassins that got added to the game because now we basically have a full year of heavy heroes.

Glad you're into the unexpected direction for the hero. I understand how it's sort of surprising. I was personally not familiar with whether axes were a thing in medieval Japanese warfare, but then I found out about this superhuman toddler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintar%C5%8D).

Sweaty_Sock
04-27-2019, 05:27 AM
Glad you're into the unexpected direction for the hero. I understand how it's sort of surprising. I was personally not familiar with whether axes were a thing in medieval Japanese warfare, but then I found out about this superhuman toddler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintar%C5%8D).

Also when there is a period in Japanese History where the peasant class were forbidden to carry swords :)

ThjoriArison
05-02-2019, 06:00 AM
First off, I've gotta say that especially when the other two factions do, the Samurai faction should have an axe wielding hero in it's base roster; Either the Kensei or the Shugoki should've been the axe Hero in that faction, then the axe wouldn't be behind a paywall. Secondly, the For Honor team call the Hitokiri's axe a Masakari, but it's clearly NOT a Masakari; a REAL Masakari, in it's proper battlefield weapon form, looks like THIS: and in it's improvised weapon form, like THIS: If the For Honor team wanted to put a double-headed battleaxe in the game THAT BADLY, what they should've done is introduce a new faction modeled of of either India or Persia, and given THAT faction an axe hero wielding a double-headed Tabarzin; THEN it'd actually be culturally accurate. Who's with me on that? I mean a faction modeled off of India or Persia would Definitely resemble any of the other factions much LESS culturally speaking than the Wu-Lin do the Samurai. China inspired LOT'S of aspects of Feudal Japan's culture.

ThjoriArison
05-02-2019, 05:42 PM
I'm sorry, I thought I'd put pictures of REAL Masakari in my first post, but apparently, they didn't register; here, I'll try again.

REAL Proper battle Masakari: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ono_(weapon)#/media/File:Ono-axe.jpg

REAL Improvised weapon Masakari: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ono_(weapon)#/media/File:Ono_1.JPG

Hope that fixes things.

ThjoriArison
05-02-2019, 05:44 PM
And trying again.

REAL proper battle Masakari: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ono_(weapon)#/media/File:Ono-axe.jpg

REAL improvised weapon Masakari: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ono_(weapon)#/media/File:Ono_1.JPG

ThjoriArison
05-02-2019, 05:51 PM
Okay you know what, here's the link to the Wikipedia page, that should make things easier on the both of us. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ono_(weapon)

Vendelkin
05-02-2019, 06:24 PM
Glad you're into the unexpected direction for the hero. I understand how it's sort of surprising. I was personally not familiar with whether axes were a thing in medieval Japanese warfare, but then I found out about this superhuman toddler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kintar%C5%8D).

Yeah im gojng to make a history video talking about kintari one day for a hitokiri fashion history segment of my series :)
Ive studied that story many times
But again kintaro used a handaxe. Not anything near as hulking as we see the mancutter use.