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View Full Version : Fleshing out Peace keeper. (a hero balance pass)



Knight_Raime
04-21-2019, 08:59 PM
The first of my hero balance passes post my mechanic ideas. I wanted to address Peace Keeper first for a few reasons. The first being that she's the only legit assassin don't @ me. But on a serious note it's mainly because I don't think her identity has ever been fleshed out enough. We know that bleeding is important to her. Gameplay wise she feels more like a passive assassin. But speaking from a lore perspective i've always seen peace keeper as an assassin who pressure's her opponent with a flurry of attacks. She doesn't out right kill you. She toys with you via bleed. So today i'm going to attempt to bring that style to light a bit more. The goal being giving her a clear gameplay path and overall being more interesting to play as and fight against.

Bleed update:
In addition to already doing low constant damage I want to add that the bleed will also now do stamina damage and pk's attacks cost less stamina to use.
Refreshing bleed will not stack stamina damage. just keep it ticking. And cleansing bleed in any method will cleanse the stamina damage as well.

Dagger Cancel update:
So Dagger cancel is now a chain starter. To make sure that this can be fully taken advantage of PK can now dagger cancel into any direction.
It is 400ms on the sides and 500ms on the top.

Dodge attack update:
The dodge heavies now have an option. You can input light after landing to keep bleeding going. OR you can input heavy for a heavy finisher.

Zone attack update:
The second hit of the zone is now chargable into an unblockable heavy. (input by holding heavy after a zone input, is feintable)

Soft feint GB revert:
The soft feint into GB now has a varied input timing again.

Dash heavy/dash/sprint GB:
Dash heavy now has the undodgable property and is a chain starter. Dash GB is now a command grab. Throws them by kicking off of them. briefly blinds the opponent.

New input:
Blocking a neutral heavy let's pk chain into a combo starter light that is enhanced.

Deflect update:
Deflect can execute.

Fix:
Pk can no longer kill with chip when the opponent is bleeding.


Explanation:

Let's tackle my first 3 points as those imo are the most important changes her kit would be receiving. Bleed damage in itself is rather neat. But to a lot of players in the higher end brackets don't really fear the damage. The intent with the stamina damage is specifically to apply further pressure to her opponent. Stamina is a huge thing. It directly effects how much pressure someone can push on someone. And it also is their life line on how often they can attempt to parry something. To clarify a worry the stamina damage WILL NOT happen during OOS. Reducing her cost also encourages pk to be a bit more active with attacks of all kinds. But with the idea in mind that if you go too hard you will get parried. Essentially the bleed update seeks to encourage more active play from both parties.

The Dagger cancel update specifically exists to allow pk to actually have some kind of aggression as her soft feints are her other main source of activity in her kit. Not simply something you throw out on occasion. That's only afforded to stacked kits. Making it 400ms on the sides is to specifically increase the likelyhood of it landing so she can actually try to use it multiple times. Similar to how shaman will go for multiple bleed soft feints just to mix things up. The dodge heavy change follows this line of thought as well. Letting her aggression actually be aggression. And because it chains into her heavy finisher she has some mix up potential with it. She becomes an actual counter attacker.

All of the other changes are QoL updates to make the rest of her kit feel..well like she has more of a kit. Zone is a huge part of her kit as is. Giving it a charge option means she can do her own bait and parry game but it also gives her something she can use in an external situation beyond GB's. She can only hard feint once the heavy becomes unblockable though. This is to prevent her zone from becoming too stacked. The varied soft feint window for GB returned for one specific reason. To deal with people who avoid her soft feints on one timing. Deflect executing is a nice incentive to actually go for the deflect.

The new input affords PK a reason to actually use raw heavy openers without conflicting with her bleed follow up since it's a blocked attack and not a landed heavy. The changes to her dash heavy/gb exist to give her some interesting chase down game for those who decide to try and flee from her. And the fix is done as sort of a balancing point. Now that PK has more power and more tools to aid her in securing kills she doesn't need the frankly buggy gimmick that allowed bleed to kill with chip.

As with any of my suggestions on hero write ups i'm well aware that they come off being a little stacked or potentially abused by people who don't bother to learn the kit. I appreciate when people point this out. But understand that i'm also trying to design heros that can be viable for high end play in an interesting fashion. I won't pretend to think that my ideas are 100% what they want or that they will work as I envision them. As i'm not a top tier competitive player. However I think my suggestions are at least decent points to start the ideas rolling for how to achieve such a goal.

I have no issues with maybe toning something down if it can be proven to be far too strong. (I.e accidentally giving a hero an undodgable unblockable with my created hero or absurd damage in the way of double chip damage and a guaranteed move.) I guess what i'm saying is if you're immediately put off by a fast attack, mix up that requires a read, or something that isn't stopped by blocking don't jump down my throat. Try to explain how said choice would be unhealthy beyond "it's not easy to deal with so it's a problem." Please and thank you.

Okt0g00N
04-22-2019, 12:13 PM
This is way too much, imagine a pk just cancel bleed, finisher side heavy, cancel into bleed then side heavy finisher into you guessed it, nothing but a raw finisher that will probably him because you think it is gonna be a cancel agane.

-Also what is a command grab?
-The zone attack unblockable thing sounds a bit odd also what's the timing on it?
-Also, imagine if bleeds ate your stamina, it would be horrible + the dagger cancel that can be repeated...
-Blocking a heavy let's you do an attack, but why don't you just parry it, and talking about parry she could get a nice attack after.

What i like about this though is that, deflect can executed the chip damage thing, but not dodge into finisher that then is mostly dagger canceled and if not, it is a 50/50 in someway.

Goat_of_Vermund
04-22-2019, 12:49 PM
I like this, I think this would be enough to make her viable without breaking her too much. I would prefer faster stamina regen by bleed instead hindering the opponent's, but this would also work well.

How much damage would her unblockable do? Could it be followed up by deep gouge? Could it be softfeinted?

Knight_Raime
04-23-2019, 01:30 AM
This is way too much, imagine a pk just cancel bleed, finisher side heavy, cancel into bleed then side heavy finisher into you guessed it, nothing but a raw finisher that will probably him because you think it is gonna be a cancel agane.

-Also what is a command grab?
-The zone attack unblockable thing sounds a bit odd also what's the timing on it?
-Also, imagine if bleeds ate your stamina, it would be horrible + the dagger cancel that can be repeated...
-Blocking a heavy let's you do an attack, but why don't you just parry it, and talking about parry she could get a nice attack after.

What i like about this though is that, deflect can executed the chip damage thing, but not dodge into finisher that then is mostly dagger canceled and if not, it is a 50/50 in someway.

1) Shaman already plays games like this. it's not as oppressive as you might think. Granted with PK it'll be a bit more powerful because her sides are 400ms. but still.

2) A command grab is an action via grab. So instead of grabbing the person with GB and then deciding what you want to do with the person you grab the person and the action is automatically performed. The upsdide to a command grab is that you usually can't tech them. Or they come with some kind of bonus like bouncing someone up to juggle them or slaming them down for a hard knock down. I haven't yet decided what her command grab would do yet.

3) The second hit of her current zone comes out 900ms into the zone attack. In order to make it a proper zone charge without insane timing i'd have to lower the timing on that second hit. I'd probably bring it down to 600ms or 700ms. Then charging it would be up to 900ms or 1000ms.

4) I haven't decided the stamina drain numbers. But they would be low. So it's not like she bleeds you once or twice and then you feint and you're OOS. She'd have to keep bleed on you for a significant period of time for that to happen. The stamina damage in my mind is really only going to affect people who don't manage their stamina already. People who spam attacks out constantly.

5) Your wording here is confusing. What I was saying is if she lets a raw neutral heavy land on someone and they block it she can chain into an enhanced light that is a chain starter. Meaning essentially unless the person parries the heavy or parries that enhanced light she's going to be able to get into chains to mix you up. This new "chain" won't be used often because of how slow her opening heavies are. But people already mix those in with her feint games. It will see the most use in 4's where external blocking is a big thing.

6) Yes the whole idea is to give her more mix ups and aggression. As is she doesn't have any natural mix ups. Soft feint into GB/dagger cancel can be avoided on one timeing. And anytime she does land a dodge heavy or a dagger cancel her aggression ends. She doesn't have any great opening tools. Rather than forcing her to have a strong opener with harassment I decided to improve her current mix up game by creating more situations for her to mix up and making her mix ups more reliable.

I don't claim that my suggestions are right for pk. But I prefer mine over most. Mine is more unique and interesting. Where as most want to just slap an unblockable on her or a bash. Most of the competitive community seems to want to do something interesting with her bleed and allow her bleed inputs to be combo starters.

Knight_Raime
04-23-2019, 01:32 AM
I like this, I think this would be enough to make her viable without breaking her too much. I would prefer faster stamina regen by bleed instead hindering the opponent's, but this would also work well.

How much damage would her unblockable do? Could it be followed up by deep gouge? Could it be softfeinted?

Haven't figured out numbers for some of the new inputs/variables quite yet. But no. The only thing that you can do with her zone once it's unblockable is feint it.
The idea is to have access to her normal zone mix up. Or to force a reaction with a higher stamina cost. I did think about letting it be soft feintable. But I feel like the only way I could do that without over stacking her zone is by removing the soft feint capabilities from her second hit UNLESS she was charging it. And I wasn't fond of removing something from pk.

Sweaty_Sock
04-23-2019, 09:52 AM
I like alot of the suggestions outside of the stamina stamina damage & the zone. Stamina damage feels a little oppressive & redundant with all the options to now maximise the damage on an opening (when you do find one) - also why the unblockable doesn't feel needed to me - I enjoy using her to test & test till an opening presents, it feels to me what is unique and I enjoy it (although like your suggestions more chain starters please to actually maximise damage outside heavy/light, getting stale)

TO throw my wishes into the ring

- heavy startup attack converts all current bleed into immediate damage (so you can execute with her with a little more regularity)

& Maybe
- undodgable property on the dodge attacks - it would give another engage with the tracking/distance slide

Goat_of_Vermund
04-26-2019, 05:03 PM
I really hope they will soon figure something out. There is so much potential in all these topics, I just can't understand why she never received a rework with more initiative put into it.