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Baggin_
04-02-2019, 08:39 PM
Why can you side dodge a horizontal attack? This makes no sense at all. Back dodging should dodge horizontal attack and side dodges should dodge vertical attacks.

Doesn't that make the most sense?

Baggin_
04-02-2019, 08:52 PM
Which makes me think of other questions too.

Why can assassins parry?

Why is there hyper armor?

Why is this there varrying degrees of tracking?

Why do some assassins hit like heavies?

I really could keep going.

The_B0G_
04-03-2019, 12:48 PM
When the game first released I brought this up about dodging through side attacks, that's when I was maining LB, he swings his axe at waist level and it literally passes directly through people.

Parrying is a finesse move, so that is actually what an assassin would be doing in a real fight, blocking heavy handed attacks is something they should have an issue with in my opinion, stamina drain at least.

Hyper Armor makes sense on heavily armored characters only, like pretty much any Knight with a few exceptions, WL, Shugoki, any big character with lots of armor basically, because they definitely could take a hit while giving one with armor like that. It doesn't make sense for Berserker in the way that they set him up, he'd be dead after one trade, his armor wouldn't stop a steak knife.

I get what you're saying though, it doesn't make much sense in general, hopefully in For Honor 2 they make skills and move sets a little more realistic in their function, so it makes more sense.

Sweaty_Sock
04-03-2019, 03:18 PM
There is an old saying - function over form. Looks should always come secondary to functionality

Siegfried-Z
04-03-2019, 03:41 PM
Which makes me think of other questions too.

Why can assassins parry?

Why is there hyper armor?

Why is this there varrying degrees of tracking?

Why do some assassins hit like heavies?

I really could keep going.

I agree. But this is obvious we Don't have real different type of heroes anymore.

It's like why some Tanks or Vanguards have the mobility or speed of assassins. Or why some Tanks and Vanguards can lights spam. Same problem in the other way.

Baggin_
04-03-2019, 05:20 PM
I agree. But this is obvious we Don't have real different type of heroes anymore.

It's like why some Tanks or Vanguards have the mobility or speed of assassins. Or why some Tanks and Vanguards can lights spam. Same problem in the other way.
That's one of my biggest problems with this game. Classes just don't matter. No rhyme or reason as to why a character has the moves and abilities they have.

Liduras
04-03-2019, 06:47 PM
Why can you side dodge a horizontal attack?

They are dodged the same way hook punches are dodged to the direction they are coming from in real life: by ducking under it.

Siegfried-Z
04-03-2019, 06:47 PM
That's one of my biggest problems with this game. Classes just don't matter. No rhyme or reason as to why a character has the moves and abilities they have.

Me too.
I think they just lost themselves in the long path of balancing.
They should have made some rules from which they would never deviate for each type of heroe since the beginning.

Like HA only for tanks, side Dodge attack only for assassins and so on.

But it is too late for this kind of changes now we have to like it or leave.. (but it makes me laugh each time i see "vanguard" for Tiandi lol

Knight_Raime
04-03-2019, 11:40 PM
That's one of my biggest problems with this game. Classes just don't matter. No rhyme or reason as to why a character has the moves and abilities they have.

Classes did have distinct differences at the beginning. It clearly didn't work out because we had several balancing issues. Maybe if the games base mechanics had much more depth to them we could have gone a class route.

Illyrian_King
04-04-2019, 11:17 AM
I was always against allowing every Hero to parry every Hero's attacks.

There is no way a PK could parry a Lawbringer's heavy. I do martial arts myself and know what the mere weight of a punch means.

It would have been a very good step to get rid of the defensive meta in a good amount by introducing parry limitings ... beside making fights more "believable".

You could also make Heroes more different from one another, by giving them different parry "possibilities" (meaning if they can parry a Raider/Goki or just Assassins), different block damage (especially Goki, Lawbringer, Raider), hyperarmour till xx damage (since Warden with his medium-high armour could still continue a strike while being hit by a Shinobi light for example), etc.
Deeper character traits without even giving them new moves.
The devs really missed potential with this.

Goat_of_Vermund
04-04-2019, 11:26 AM
With that animation, I doubt she could pull it off and counterattack, but parrying is actually redirecting an attack's angle, using the enemy's momentum against them, mostly by simply hitting the attack sideways. Also, there is no way a lightparry would unbalance an assassin long enough for the Lawbringer to pull off a Blind Justice.

The_B0G_
04-04-2019, 02:23 PM
I was always against allowing every Hero to parry every Hero's attacks.

There is no way a PK could parry a Lawbringer's heavy. I do martial arts myself and know what the mere weight of a punch means.

It would have been a very good step to get rid of the defensive meta in a good amount by introducing parry limitings ... beside making fights more "believable".

You could also make Heroes more different from one another, by giving them different parry "possibilities" (meaning if they can parry a Raider/Goki or just Assassins), different block damage (especially Goki, Lawbringer, Raider), hyperarmour till xx damage (since Warden with his medium-high armour could still continue a strike while being hit by a Shinobi light for example), etc.
Deeper character traits without even giving them new moves.
The devs really missed potential with this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a parry be easier to perform than a block on a heavy hitting strike? It's a deflection or sorts isn't it? I think straight up blocking would be harder for a PK to do than a block on an LB.

Illyrian_King
04-04-2019, 02:54 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a parry be easier to perform than a block on a heavy hitting strike? It's a deflection or sorts isn't it? I think straight up blocking would be harder for a PK to do than a block on an LB.

Not really ... look closer at the parry animation. The don't redirect the strike, but they completely lean towards it, trying to simply "overpower" it and throw it back.
Redirecting would be deflecting.
Just in the case of PK top parry: she crosses her blades. "traps" the hostile weapon and pushes it back. No matter if it's just a dagger or a bigass poleaxe.

Goat_of_Vermund
04-04-2019, 03:32 PM
Shaolin uses his arm to catch that poleaxe, which is way more stupid, it should be damaged beyond repair and the attack should continue.

On the other hand, as I said, light attacks wouldn't really open up people if countered, pk is using one hand for lights, if you parry it, she would be able to attack again in that second. It wouldn't harm lb's armor of course, so a pk would just avoid engaging in the first place.
But don't go deeper than that, in a realistic world, raiders would have died out from frostbites and infections.

Illyrian_King
04-04-2019, 04:06 PM
Shaolin uses his arm to catch that poleaxe, which is way more stupid, it should be damaged beyond repair and the attack should continue.

On the other hand, as I said, light attacks wouldn't really open up people if countered, pk is using one hand for lights, if you parry it, she would be able to attack again in that second. It wouldn't harm lb's armor of course, so a pk would just avoid engaging in the first place.
But don't go deeper than that, in a realistic world, raiders would have died out from frostbites and infections.

Yep Shaolin really tops all others.
But you are right about the missed opportunity with wielding 2 weapons. That's the biggest reason for using 2 weapons in real fights. If one weapon is blocked (or whatever), the other is still available. In FH It's just about light spam.

About your PK example: in real fights PK with her lack in armour and armour breaking weapons would not be likely to survive most match-ups. Also considering that she is a girl and not even a muscular one (sorry all SJWs).

The_B0G_
04-04-2019, 04:11 PM
Not really ... look closer at the parry animation. The don't redirect the strike, but they completely lean towards it, trying to simply "overpower" it and throw it back.
Redirecting would be deflecting.
Just in the case of PK top parry: she crosses her blades. "traps" the hostile weapon and pushes it back. No matter if it's just a dagger or a bigass poleaxe.

Oh yes, for PK that's her animation, but I mean for a parry in general, I thought a parry was all about using the weight of the blow against the guy throwing it, to use the momentum to redirect the attack while positioning for a strike and the same time.

Vakris_One
04-04-2019, 05:10 PM
What FH calls a "parry" is not actually how a parry works in real life. The assassin deflects are closer to how a parry works. For Honor's "parry" is basically a brute force overpowering where one character takes all of the force and impact of a blow full on and pushes the other fighter back with a feat of Herculean might. A Lawbringer or Shugoki would be able to do that to a PK or a Gladiator for example but it's unrealistic in the extreme when reversed and the PK does it to a Lawbringer/Shugo, etc.

But haven't we been here before about a hundred times already with the whole realism arguments? For Honor places gameplay over realism, always has and always will.

Knight_Raime
04-04-2019, 08:45 PM
What FH calls a "parry" is not actually how a parry works in real life. The assassin deflects are closer to how a parry works. For Honor's "parry" is basically a brute force overpowering where one character takes all of the force and impact of a blow full on and pushes the other fighter back with a feat of Herculean might. A Lawbringer or Shugoki would be able to do that to a PK or a Gladiator for example but it's unrealistic in the extreme when reversed and the PK does it to a Lawbringer/Shugo, etc.

But haven't we been here before about a hundred times already with the whole realism arguments? For Honor places gameplay over realism, always has and always will.

Not to be that guy but the parries in FH are technically "realistic" if every hero was wielding the kind of shield Warlord uses. You can always meet the blow and then shove it away. But batting the attack away can also work. Obviously some weapons like the ones that have axe blades this would be a bad idea. But for pretty much every other weapon in the game smacking it away would be fine. (aside from the fact that doing so is exposing your torso. which is not what you typically want to do.)

d:

Vakris_One
04-05-2019, 01:34 AM
Not to be that guy but the parries in FH are technically "realistic" if every hero was wielding the kind of shield Warlord uses. You can always meet the blow and then shove it away. But batting the attack away can also work. Obviously some weapons like the ones that have axe blades this would be a bad idea. But for pretty much every other weapon in the game smacking it away would be fine. (aside from the fact that doing so is exposing your torso. which is not what you typically want to do.)

d:
Well I did say that someone like Lawbringer can realistically brute force his way over a PK like the game shows us. A PK however would need a shield, as you accurately pointed out, to do the same to him. She could not do it with just her sword and dagger.

"Technically" though the parry manouver is usually a redirection of the opponent's blade to the sides, down or up depending on the angle of the attack so you can get a riposte in. Realistically you wouldn't opt for pushing the opponents blade off of yours and forcing their weapon back towards them unless you are capable of physically overpowering them with ease or you have a shield that gives that extra leverage. Most FH characters are pushing their opponent's blade off of their own weapon's blade(s) as if they were physically overpowering a child.