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AllorNothing117
01-21-2009, 06:14 AM
I just flew against 16 bombers with me and a wingman and got 14 kills.

I fly the P-38 and the Bombers where KI-21-II.

So clearly this is too easy and I'll learn nothing from doing it.

However if I fly against zeros, 4v4, 8v8 I get creamed. What would a good middle ground be, I've received lots of fantastic advice about fighting Zeros but I think I should try it out on summit a little easier first. Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PS: Something Japanese would be nice trying to keep it historically acurateish.

AllorNothing117
01-21-2009, 06:14 AM
I just flew against 16 bombers with me and a wingman and got 14 kills.

I fly the P-38 and the Bombers where KI-21-II.

So clearly this is too easy and I'll learn nothing from doing it.

However if I fly against zeros, 4v4, 8v8 I get creamed. What would a good middle ground be, I've received lots of fantastic advice about fighting Zeros but I think I should try it out on summit a little easier first. Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PS: Something Japanese would be nice trying to keep it historically acurateish.

WholeHawg
01-21-2009, 06:17 AM
What model Zero are you flying aginst? Usually I use an older version like the A6M2-21 when I am flying the earlier P-38. In other words give the AI an older aircraft type to offset the fact that they cheat.

AllorNothing117
01-21-2009, 08:56 AM
Ha that so won't offset it lol. I usualy fly against the A6M5 a,b,c but I've flone against most of the A6M range and usually loose.

F19_Orheim
01-21-2009, 09:07 AM
don't turn http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Xiolablu3
01-21-2009, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by F19_Orheim:
don't turn http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Remember he can always outturn you if you try a sustained turn.

Think of a way to attack which doesnt involve bleeding all your energy and speed off in turns.

HINT - Vertical

Watch this for even more advice, they are bombers but the tactic still applies vs Zeros.....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=34wz5L1XMJ0

Uufflakke
01-21-2009, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Watch this for even more advice, they are bombers but the tactic still applies vs Zeros.....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=34wz5L1XMJ0 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

X3, I dunno if this vid is such a good example. The P-47 is attacking its mates in B-17s. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Xiolablu3
01-21-2009, 01:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Uufflakke:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Watch this for even more advice, they are bombers but the tactic still applies vs Zeros.....

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=34wz5L1XMJ0 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

X3, I dunno if this vid is such a good example. The P-47 is attacking its mates in B-17s. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, its a QMB with the guy in a P47 attacking enmy B17's to show to attack bombers without getting shot. Listen as he passes them, you can hear the return fire.

Also see the 'Enemy Aircraft Destroyed' message

I thought it was an excellent example of the vertical attack, be it on B17's, Stukas, Spitfires or Zeros. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_Galway
01-21-2009, 03:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Hehe, its a QMB with the guy in a P47 attacking enmy B17's to show to attack bombers without getting shot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its also an excellent example of how shots fired from above or below are much more likely to do serious damage in a single short burst than shots fired from the direct six.

LEBillfish
01-21-2009, 07:00 PM
Practicing against an assured win on your part opponent is not the way to improve your skills. If you want to kill Zero's, great, practice against zero's. You have the luxury of not dying, that really your "problem".

If you had 1 life, that it, then my guess is you would NOT be taking the chances you do flying the P38 wrong.....Either that or you'd be fodder.

Well you have the luxury of an infinity lives in this sim.....So keep at it.

K2

AllorNothing117
01-22-2009, 02:58 AM
Alright then, I will. But it very boaring. One pass followed by running away for 4 hours.

AllorNothing117
01-22-2009, 03:01 AM
Also, that vd is almost exactly how I was attacking bombers, although you cannot do it quite that well in the p-38 due to stupid decompression. Howevr it's crazy to think you can use those tactics agianst zero's.

general_kalle
01-22-2009, 03:19 AM
try another airplane that the P38. i wouldnt reccoment that plane as the first plane to compete with Zero's.

Try a Seafire, Corsair or Wildcat...especially the wildcat. superb Zero Killer. at least in this game.

Lightning wont turn at low speed, wont turn at highspeed..hardly maneuver at high speed.

na85
01-22-2009, 04:09 AM
Try it with another aircraft, and then apply what you have learned to the P-38.

With no wingman to drag'n'bag with, yes you will be doing a lot of boring extensions.

Xiolablu3
01-22-2009, 07:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
Alright then, I will. But it very boaring. One pass followed by running away for 4 hours. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont think real US pilots were too worried about things getting 'boring'.

They learned not to turnfight the Zero from the deaths of their friends.

mortoma
01-22-2009, 01:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AllorNothing117:
I just flew against 16 bombers with me and a wingman and got 14 kills.

I fly the P-38 and the Bombers where KI-21-II.

So clearly this is too easy and I'll learn nothing from doing it.

However if I fly against zeros, 4v4, 8v8 I get creamed. What would a good middle ground be, I've received lots of fantastic advice about fighting Zeros but I think I should try it out on summit a little easier first. Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PS: Something Japanese would be nice trying to keep it historically acurateish. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well you just let me fly a P-38 4x4 or 8x8 mission and I'll show ya how it's done. In a 8x8 I'll get at least 4 out 8 of the Zeros making it easy for the AI on my side to clean up. Want me to post a track for you? Everyone has so much trouble with the P-38, but if you know how to fly it against either AI or humans, you can clean up in it. Especially the AI.

I'll tell ya what. I'll even put my side on Average and the 8 Zeros on Ace and I'll still whip their butts. The AI pose no real threat to me but then again I've been flying against AI in this game for nearly 7 years now. If Oleg would have made the AI twice as good as they are now, I'd still be yawning when I fly against them. The AI in this game are pathetic wussies even on so-called "Ace". Why people are so afraid of them has me puzzled.

Old_Rusty
01-23-2009, 08:05 AM
The biggest point has been said, but I'll state it again. Many people overlook the idea of fighting in the vertical. I practiced 1v1 and 1v2 with zeros in a lone p40. yes, the P40 turns a lot better than a P38 but it is not as fast in a vertical fight, however you still immediately have an advantage if you are either diving down on an apponnent or zooming up behind. Sure, he may follow and you might end up with a vertical scissors situation but the closing speeds mean the window of opportunity to score a hit (for him too!) are lower than a long turning fight where you are constantly trying to lead the target, or they are you.

It only takes the zero to not climb enough for you to immediatly hav an energy advantage to dive upon the point he will be at (say, if he is turning or flying across your path) He can turn as much as he likes but its harder for him to evade if you can intercept him at a point.

I've managed to survive a hell of a lot longer both on and offline with vertical fighting, its great fun.

P

dirkpit7
01-23-2009, 09:14 AM
You can try against Ki-43. They are a little slower than A6M, even better turners, but most importantly have far worse armament. If you get shot at you have better chances to survive.

What you really need is patience and discipline not to engage in a manoeuvring fight or throw out your advantages (speed, altitude) for a tempting snap shot chance (something I do regularly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ). Fly smoothly, plan ahead and maintain situational awareness.

As for climbing and diving, do both in shallow angles. Climb at 300-400 km/h and you should be able to leave Zeros and Oscars behind you quickly.

Don't be afraid to disengage. Your speed advantage gives you the option to choose whether to fight or not, use it to your best. Shallow dive will bring you out of trouble most of the time, without losing too much altitude.

P-38 requires a certain style of combat to be succesful. If this style feels boring to you, you should start looking for some other plane with capabilities that suit you better.

TinyTim
01-23-2009, 09:33 AM
Hop online and fight zeros in a full realistic environment.

Real players, as opposed to AI, do overheat, they do blackout, they can't dive to mach 1, and, most importantly, they can't see you approaching if you are in their blind spot. AI always sees everything around it, so you can't surprise it.

It's this fact alone that makes speed more important than maneouverability. 90% of RL air to air victims never saw their attacker (so they didn't try to dodge). AI always sees you.

"I never pursued the enemy once they had eluded me. I broke off and set for a new assault, searching for another target."
~ E. Hartmann

ace1328fw190
01-23-2009, 09:16 PM
usually i do 1 vs 4 ace battles using the P40 or the corsair MK2....after the first head on pass, they usually climp up and do a vertical turn, wat i do is i dive about 100-150m and loop around, then i should be getting around 400m from them and they are at the top of their climb, about to dive down on me, this is the part that i get at least 2, they are going slow enough that i just put the sight on them and fire a 3 second burst...it usually takes off a wing or knocks out their engine...just fool them into climbing up and turning...you can almost always get them then! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif hope this helps

Ba5tard5word
01-24-2009, 01:12 AM
The P-38 is just plain tricky to use, in fact so are any US Pacific fighters. The Corsair is fast but is very wobbly and difficult to aim steadily, though the 1945 C version with cannons is easy to hit anything with. The Hellcat and Wildcat always feel underpowered, but are a good speed match with Japanese fighters. The P-38 is like driving a dragster that can't turn easily. The P-39 will spin out of control with a minor turn. The P-40 is also rather wobbly but is a good speed match for the Japanese fighters.

Anyway...here are some good matchups that could be good for practice...

- Early Spitfires against any Italian plane

- Spitfire VIII or La-5 or LaGG-3 vs. Bf-109 1942 or Fw-190 1942

- I-16 versus Finnish B-239

- Tempest versus 1944/45 FW-190's or Bf-109's

Also you might want to take the Ki-84 out for a spin, it's pretty fast and has a great armament. Maybe get revenge on some P-38's. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Other than that I dunno what to say other than practice. Ki-43's and Ki-61's aren't fast but they can really be frustrating because they'll zip all around you. Zeros seem a bit more sluggish and are easy to blow up with only a couple hits...Ki's seem quite a bit sturdier at least in Il-2.

I make a lot of offline missions so I have to know what planes match up well against one another and provide a good challenge but don't make me feel like throwing my computer out the window. I really prefer planes in the European Western Front or Russian Front to the Pacific Front, the planes are just more fun to fly.