View Full Version : What are the chances...

09-18-2007, 08:48 AM
I was wondering for a while...
How big is a chance to escape with a (for exemple) b-25 when you are hunted by a fighter or two?

in real life i mean http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif not in the game

09-18-2007, 09:06 AM
That depends on who's chasinghttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
Generally very low if fighters are eager for a kill.

09-18-2007, 10:21 AM
If I remember right there was a show about a B-17 in the PTO on a lone mission that fought off enemy fighters for quite some time.
I mean the pilot and crew would just not give up.
I just can"t remember all the details,someone will have to help me out here.
Then there is the story of a lone SBD that took on 3 Japenese Zero"s and won the fight!
So it can be done ,the exception to the rule however.

09-18-2007, 05:58 PM
I saw a doco on that b-17 and its crew, I think it might have been on Dogfights on The History Channel. It also had extra guns compared to a normal B-17 and the nose gunner died, the aircraft eventually landed in PNG all shot up but they did score some kills on the fighters

09-18-2007, 06:16 PM
I believe that would be Capt J. Zeamer and the crew of Old 666.

09-19-2007, 07:14 AM
Here we go,from Wiki.

On June 16, 1943, volunteered to fly an unescorted B-17 nicknamed Old 666 to Buka, a small island off the north coast of Bougainville, a 1200-mile round-trip mission, to photograph Japanese installations and map the west coast of Bougainville as far south as Empress Augusta Bay in preparation for Allied landings scheduled for early November. Apparently unbeknownst to Allied intelligence, the Japanese had moved about 400 fighters into the Solomon Islands on June 15. The mission was Zeamer's 47th in combat.

The photo reconnaissance mission was without incident, although Zeamer's crew reported observing 20 fighters taking off from Buka airfield. Zeamer continued south to the mapping run and shortly before its completion, his B-17 was intercepted by five Japanese fighters attacking from the front. Though wounded in the attack, bombardier 2nd Lt. Joseph Sarnoski continued to fire his nose gun, shooting down two fighters. Zeamer also destroyed one of the attackers using a nose gun fired remotely by a switch on the flight control column. A 20-millimeter cannon shell exploded in the nose of the B-17, severely wounding Sarnoski and knocking him out of the compartment. Sarnoski dragged himself back to his station and continued to fire until he died at his position.

The B-17's oxygen and hydraulic systems were destroyed, as were the pilot's flight instruments, in the initial attack. Zeamer, injured with a broken leg and numerous fragment wounds, dove the bomber steeply from its assigned mission altitude of 25,000 feet to approximately 10,000 feet (where the crew could survive without use of the oxygen system), estimating the altitude by an increase in engine manifold pressure. An estimated 17 fighters began a series of attacks after the bomber leveled off, waging a 45-minute battle until low on fuel. Zeamer saved the B-17 by taking evasive action to disrupt their deflection, and the crew of the B-17 shot down at least two additional fighters.

Zeamer refused first aid for his wounds and flew the B-17 until the fighters broke off the engagement. Lapsing in and out of consciousness, he assessed the battle damage to the bomber, and concluded they would be unable to climb over the Owen Stanley Mountains, instructing the copilot, who was unwounded, to make an emergency landing at an Allied fighter airstrip at Dobodura, New Guinea. Without operable brakes or flaps because of the destroyed hydraulic system, the B-17 was ground-looped by the co-pilot. Of the crew, one was killed-in-action (Sarnoski) and six others wounded-in-action.

At first thought dead from a massive loss of blood, Zeamer survived the ordeal, although nearly losing his injured leg during recovery. Colonel Merian C. Cooper, chief of staff to the deputy commander of the Fifth Air Force, Major General Ennis Whitehead, recommended Zeamer be awarded the Medal of Honor, to which Fifth Air Force commander General George Kenney concurred. He received the award from Chief of the Army Air Forces General Henry H. Arnold on January 16, 1944, at the Pentagon.

Sarnoski was also awarded the Medal of Honor, the only instance of World War II when two members of one crew were honored for separate and independent acts of heroism in combat in the same engagement. All other members of Zeamer's crew received the Distinguished Service Cross.

Tough character!!

Thanks berg!

09-21-2007, 12:26 PM
Don't forget that, unlike it is in this virtual world we fly, in real life, pilots of both sides wanted to survive. Flying up the tail end of one of these virtual B-25s, firing all guns as long as possible and disregarding the consequences was definitely not the norm in real life. Fear, and anxiety are not modeled in the AI, nor is it very often displayed by the usual virtual pilot online or off.

09-24-2007, 01:47 AM
Single _unescorted_ bomber vs a couple of enemy fighters?

I think the chances vary by a magnitude depending if the fighters were Ki-43s or Fw-190A8s.

09-24-2007, 11:28 AM
Also, don't forget that the AI in this game are all seeing, all knowing, omnicient super beings that can and will hunt you down through weather and lighting conditions that would turn back the most dedicated US Mail carrier! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

In real life, it was much easier to evade a persuer using clouds, the sun, terrain, etc to mask your get away.