View Full Version : Better PCI vs Lesser AGP

08-19-2010, 12:21 PM
To all you techno gurus out there. I fried my video card (Geforce 9400GT w/ 512MB in standard PCI slot) so my TH2Go is down until I replace it. My question is what would be better, the card I fried or a Geforce 6200A w/ 512MB in the AGP slot? It's a Dell 4600C P4 2.8ghz w/ 2GB Ram, so I need low profile cards with passive cooling because space and PSU are limited. I could also get:
HIS H435F512HA Radeon HD 4350 Video Card - 512MB DDR3, AGP, Dual-Link DVI, VGA, HDMI, it has a fan but the power draw is pretty low.
But I recall seeing on this and other forums where IL-2 likes Nvidea cards better than Radeon. Any knowledgeable input is appreciated.

08-19-2010, 12:38 PM
AGP better then regular PCI hands down.

Have a neighbour with a PCI card- not a whole lot better than on-board (on their machine anyway)

AGP, then newer rigs PCIe which is better still.

Yeah nVidia seems better for gaming in my experience (for now), and I used to use ATi cards since my Macintosh days way back when.

Competition is good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Good luck either way


08-19-2010, 12:44 PM
NVidia is as good as they say. ATI builds some very good cards but shoot themselves in the foot sometimes with their drivers. The latest one (v10.7) works very well, though.

I use ATI and am quite happy with it.

08-19-2010, 11:31 PM
GeForce 6000's are not so great at all and a 200 in that line... pricewatch on videocards just now (http://www.pricewatch.com/video_cards/)

Still with 512MB the cheapest 6200 they show is $50 before shipping so maybe run that while you scrape up for better? There's always overclocking to check out but you really want a backup card as some kind of safety net.

08-20-2010, 11:33 AM
You can pick up a 2nd hand 6800GT AGP off ebay for around 25 now, why not get one of those?

I found a 7800GS AGP for a customer the other day for 35.

Either of these will be many worlds better than the 6200 which is a poor gaming card.

EDIT : I now realise your problem which is the 'low profile'. Ignore the above

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Asus-512...cs_Video_TV_Cards_TW (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Asus-512MB-Radeon-3450-AGP-Low-Profile-Graphics-Card-/350352374644?pt=UK_Computing_Computer_Components_G raphics_Video_TV_Cards_TW)

^ is better than the 6200 but more pricey and still not great...

08-20-2010, 02:31 PM
Thanks for all the input so far. I'm leaning toward the ATI 4350 AGP low profile 512MB. I'm hoping it's a step up from the 3450 being 4000 series as capared to 3000 series but I don't really know the actual difference. I have no problem spending $75 to $100 to get TH2go back up and running. I know Nvidea is better for IL2 but they stopped making AGP with the 7000 series and I can't find any 7,8 or 9 series in AGP low profile. It seems the best I can do from them is the 6200. My brother is suggesting I ditch my case and PSU so size and power aren't an issue but It's a P4 and I'd rather just save my money and get a whole new machine with all the good stuff down the road a piece. Keep the input coming if you don't mind guys. Thanks.

08-20-2010, 03:42 PM
If you can get it, thats the best choice I think.

The 3450 gets higher benchmarks than the 6200 for sure, I just searched out a few tests.

The 4350 SHOULD be faster, but I dont know?


EDIT : found this :-

http://www.motherboards.org/re...ardware/1824_11.html (http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1824_11.html)

http://www.motherboards.org/re...hardware/1824_9.html (http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/hardware/1824_9.html)

If it can almost keep up with a 9400GT its far far faster than a 6200

08-27-2010, 02:59 PM
Hey Guys,
So I pulled the trigger and got the 4350 from tiger direct. Never got off the ground. The DDR3 memory on that chip doesn't like my Dell mobo and P4. HIS confirmed it's incompatible. They said the 3450 should be much more so. Well I did allot of web research and my only 2 choices in low profile AGP are the geforce 6200 and the ATI 3450. I'm attaching a forum post that compares the 2 and it looks as though the 3450 will be considerably faster than the 6200. But the problem is drivers as many here have said. If I can get much better FPS from the 3450 over the 6200 than I'll go thru the trouble to work out all the bugs because once I get this going I'll probably stick with it for at least a year if not two before I dump a wad on a really good gaming machine. But if it's more trouble than it's worth I'll stick with the geforce because I've never heard of any problems with them. Anyway, if you get a chance to check out the thread let me know what you think. Thanks. F

08-29-2010, 09:09 AM
If by drivers you mean the various fiascos with ATI drivers not working well with IL-2... well there is a good thing and a bad thing about that. Some of the recent drivers fix the problem (ATI does try!) according to what I've read and if you don't play that many other games (especially not new ones) there is no reason for you to move from a driver that works well.

So you may be in luck with the ATI drivers. They are good drivers when they behave http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I imagine the 3450 is a huge advancement over the 6200. I had a 6600GT and that was just able to keep up several years ago. The 6200 is really quite slow.

09-01-2010, 05:29 AM
Personally, I could NEVER get the ATI cards to work. Support was non-existant, and help on numerous forums boiled down to a lot of guessing that never panned out.

IMLTHO, no matter what all the hard core ATI fans say.....For many/most ATI just does not mesh well with IL2. Nvidia is plug and play.

That's not saying ATI is a bad card, it's just saying it and IL2 doesn't play well together....and screenshots from those claiming it does often leaves me shaking my head.

Find a cheap Nvidia AGP (though they don't have them any longer I found a 512Mb 7300 at Tiger) and it will be running in no time......One last thing....I ran a 128mb 4200 till Pacific fighters that worked great, then a 256mb 6600 through 1946....Mods can put a strain on it, yet can be toned down. Do some searches and get a refurbished if you must (expecting you may lose it).........So if there are no other options I'd say the 6200 Nvidia....Passive cooling will be a problem though.

Yet frankly, though very choppy....My Voodoo 32Mb 5000 had a 10x better picture then the ATI 512Mb 3850....and didn't crash....ATI crashed constantly.


09-02-2010, 08:53 AM
Thanks for the input fellas,
Right now I'm waiting on the 3450. Almost could't get it, everyone was out of stock but finally found one US dealer. Should be here tomorrow. I'm hoping this one is more compatible than the 4350. It seems if I can get the 3450 to work right, it should be much faster than the 6200. But that's starting to sound like a big if. Does anyone know if the DDR2 memory on the 3450 will have a problem with the DDR memory on my Dell 4600C P4 mobo? The DDR3 memory on the 4350 would not work at all. As I mentioned earlier, HIS said the 3000 series should be more compatible than the 4000 series because of the DDR3 vs DDR2. This is all to get TH2Go working so the Nvidea 4000 or 5000 series cards are not an option and won't work with TH2Go. The 6000 series is the lowest that is listed as compatible on the Matrox TH2Go list. The HD 3450 is a later generation of card than the 6200 so it should be worth the trouble. I'm a little concerned about the Dell 4600C PSU because this 3450 card needs a molex power connector from the PSU and the PSU is listed at 160 watts but everything I read says it's really more like 250 watts because of the way Dell rates them. Also, the Geforce4 MX440 that the PC shipped with says it needs a 300 watt PSU so go figure. And lastly, I ran a PSU calculator on the ASUS web site and it said I need 250 watts so I'm thinking it'll be fine. It's funny because this tread is kind of coming full circle.

Given LEBillfish's input, if I were to stick with an nVidea card, I'd be left with the original choice and question that I asked at the top of this page. Would I be better off with a 9400GT in the standard PCI slot, or the 6200 in the AGP slot. I'm thinking the 3450 in the AGP will kick both their butts, but if it doesn't work, or is plagued with bugs, what good is it? And in case anyone forgot, remeber we're dealing with low profile agp or pci cards only. Thanks again boys. I'll let you know what happens with the 3450. Later, F.

09-12-2010, 07:49 AM
Well if anybody cares this card is in and seeems to be working great. I just had to adapt a mini molex to full size molex. Clipped and soldered on new plug wires took 15 minutes. Deleted old drivers and checked with CCleaner. Swapped in the card, put in the drivers CD and installed. No problems encountered. Track IR 5 and TH2go work great as well as San's FOV Changer. I'm getting 25-30+ fps with perfect scenery. Water on 2(high for ATI) and Shadows on 2 dragged the fps down to 20 some so I opted put them both on 1 and things sped up to over 30 except for very heavy scenery. These two settings on 1 don't detract much from the visual. The Geforce 9400 in the PCI slot would only give me 12-15 fps in perfect mode so this is a significant improvement.
The smart doctor feature with temp monitor shows the chip running pretty cool even under 3 screen full load. Now I get to play with the overclocking feature. We'll see if things speed up without cooking it. So if anyone needs a low profile AGP card for a P4 computer with low PSU draw, I'd say this card is it. I'll post the results of the overclocking when I get to trying it. For $40.00 I think this is a cheap and quick way to extend the life of this dated machine. Any input on overclocking memory vs GPU would be appeciated. Thanks, F.

Dell 4600C P4 2.8ghz, 2GB DDRPC3200 Ram, ASUS ATI AH3450 w/ 512MB, TH2go, TrIR5, SansFOV, Stock 160W PSU.

10-03-2010, 08:14 AM
Man oh man,
Fiasco is an understatement. I can certainly see what people have complained about when it comes to ATI drivers. I have been through hell and back and basically all for nought. This card is now working and working well. But I have to use the stock 8.52 driver that shipped with the card. Every attempt to upgrade ended up with the TH2go not being recognized. Even the AGP hotfix 10.9 driver did the same thing. I've tried every driver available for this card from ASUS and ATI but none have worked. And the hell I went through having to uninstall drivers and reinstall and then having the "video mode not supported" screen get me. I was almost going to reinstall Windows it got that bad. But I finally got things worked out.
I was getting some real bad stutters until I used the "Advanced Tweaks for IL2 stutter problems" and that cured everything. I get 40+ FPS and still have IL2 set to Perfect scenery. I guess if I could get the newest drivers to work I might get better visuals or faster FPS but I am no longer willing to risk it.
And for you gurus and OCers, the overclocking on the video card didn't seem to change much of anything. I ran the Auto tune feature and it jumped the speed from 600mhz to 670mhz and the memory from 400 to 525mhz. But this didn't seem to increase the FPS in IL2 one bit. At this point it doesn't matter, I can fly missions with no stutters and decent FPS and good visuals, so all in all I'm happy. Now do I dare install FS9 and torture myself some more? Thanks for all the input during this upgrade process. F.

10-03-2010, 07:28 PM
Not sure if this helps, but my last system was a P4 2.8 and I had very good performance from an ATI x1650 512mb agp card. They should be very cheap now. you don't want to go too high end with a P4.