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View Full Version : The Dam Busters return as sharp as ever !



The.Tyke
08-28-2007, 02:51 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=O...07/08/28/ndam128.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=OCH2CAM1KQTCXQFIQMGSFGGAVCBQ WIV0?xml=/news/2007/08/28/ndam128.xml)

The.Tyke
08-28-2007, 02:51 AM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=O...07/08/28/ndam128.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=OCH2CAM1KQTCXQFIQMGSFGGAVCBQ WIV0?xml=/news/2007/08/28/ndam128.xml)

JG52Uther
08-28-2007, 03:23 AM
Cool! Will it have 'Tigger' in it I wonder?

Bewolf
08-28-2007, 04:39 AM
I always wondered why the Dambusters are held in so high regard.

The intended goal to disrupt german war industry was not accomplished at all, nearly half the planes were lost and most casualties were allied prisoners of war. The only effect it had was a short in foodsupply for alot of drowned animals.

Sure, it was marvelous and very couragous flying displayed there and that requires praise. But that is true to countless other occasions nobody ever mentions anything about. The Taranto raid beeing a prime example. Not to belittle the aeronautical feats, it just appears pushed a bit out of prooportions.

That said, I still have to watch that movie. Films about the airwar are still way too rare, from either side's perspective.

Skoshi Tiger
08-28-2007, 06:12 AM
Why they were held in so high regard? Because they were hero's.

You can't fight a war on one front and expect to win. Some times you have to use un-conventional methods.

The British had tried conventional methods of attacking the dams and failed. The whole thing was concidered impossible.

So right from the initial concept by Barnes-Wallis, all the way through to the men who flew in the aircraft, they all had something to prove to the Germans.

That there was nothing that the germans had that could be concidered safe.

The Dambusters flew against tremendous odds, using weapons that, at best, might work if the theory was right.

These guys put their lives on the line with the understanding that a lot of them would not return even if everything went right.

Bewolf
08-28-2007, 06:16 AM
I guess. Pure psychology, I suppose.

JG52Uther
08-28-2007, 06:18 AM
It was a propaganda victory more than anything else.At the time,things were not going so well.

leitmotiv
08-28-2007, 06:58 AM
To completely knock out the Ruhr the RAF needed to get all three dams. Before the raid, they knew the two concrete dams were vulnerable to the bomb, but that it was ineffective against the third, earth, dam. Thus, the raid was incapable of achieving the goal before the first aircraft took off.

Without a doubt it was a beautifully executed mission. 617 paid dearly for the 2/3 success in lost crews. The British have always celebrated their cunning in trying to find an indirect approach to take down a formidable enemy. The fire ships loosed on the Spanish Armada while in port is a classic example, as is the dams raid. They are justifiably proud of a flawed but brilliant scheme beautifully executed against the odds.

han freak solo
08-28-2007, 07:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JG52Uther:
Cool! Will it have 'Tigger' in it I wonder? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I shot "Tigger". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Bewolf
08-28-2007, 07:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by leitmotiv:
To completely knock out the Ruhr the RAF needed to get all three dams. Before the raid, they knew the two concrete dams were vulnerable to the bomb, but that it was ineffective against the third, earth, dam. Thus, the raid was incapable of achieving the goal before the first aircraft took off.

Without a doubt it was a beautifully executed mission. 617 paid dearly for the 2/3 success in lost crews. The British have always celebrated their cunning in trying to find an indirect approach to take down a formidable enemy. The fire ships loosed on the Spanish Armada while in port is a classic example, as is the dams raid. They are justifiably proud of a flawed but brilliant scheme beautifully executed against the odds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, even the third dam would not have caused much of a difference. The Ruhr area relies on a lot of dams an rivers for its water and electricity supplies, back in those days already. Successive raids would have been nessecary either way. It was an interesting approach for sure and, given a more determined attitude, with good chances of success (not taking into account more sophisticated german defenses that probably would have been set up). But this one raid, even with the third dam destroyed, would not have changed much at all.

About the rest I won't argue. That it was a daring and brave, wonderfully executed raid is without a doubt the case.

x6BL_Brando
08-28-2007, 07:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I always wondered why the Dambusters are held in so high regard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think in the aftermath of so much war, and the plethora of biographical accounts that were being published, the focus on technical accomplishments combined with daring flying made it a good subject for Paul Brickhill's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Brickhill) writing-style.

In the 50's when I was growing up the RAF was revered for it's part in defending the island, and the burgeoning film industry delighted in the kind of technical effects that the original film is littered with.
After a very popular radio bandleader released a recording of the theme music, complete with the cultured tones of the 'chaps' throughout, saying "Steady....right a bit....steady" and "bang on, skipper, jolly good show" and "let's go home".

Now I've got the flipping tune stuck in my head! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Don't you just hate that?

Anyway, it was seen as a tribute to the heroic deeds of the RAF in general - though I doubt anyone thought it was particularly real. No one in those days would have taken a child to see the realities of where they had just been - and films like this were seen as family entertainment, not the virtual re-enactments that modern audiences seem to crave.

I think it reflects the ideals of the country at the time after the war and after the coronation of E II R. Britain's boffins bring us through! - onward into the atomic age, and all that. It wasn't until British authors such as Len Deighton started writing about subjects like Dresden that we (the post-war generation) began to hear about the fiercer, X-rated war that was flown by RAF bomber crews.

Despite the clipped accents and the "oh bother, I've been hit" "it's curtains for poor old Charlie" script - and that dratted Daa, da da, da da da da daH! that's echoing round my by-now deserted cranium, the film also celebrated the prowess of the enigmatic Barnes-Wallis in getting a new idea past the Air Marshals. (Not to mention having the idea and making it work!)

It was all redolent of Kipling and Baden-Powell and the "never mind manoeuvres, have at them" kind of tradition that filled bookshelves and sold films. It takes a Brit to get the full nuances of the sub-text, back in the days when they played the national anthem after the performance and everyone automatically stood up.

I doubt anything made nowadays can really capture the mood of the book and film, and its place in our consciousness. It's really celebrating the British ability to hit a pinpoint target and bring it down, while using the most primitive of hand-held sighting equipment, viz. B-P and the Scouting tradition. Back in the days when we ate Spam rather than wrote it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

B

Skoshi Tiger
08-28-2007, 07:30 AM
Just one example of how brave some of these guys were.

During the attacking the Möhne dam, Flt Lt Martin, After dropping his own planes upkeep bomb, flew parallel AJ-A (the 4th attacking Lancaster) with all his light on to attract the AAA fire away from the other lanc.

He instructed his gunners to take on the flak batteries with the Machine guns. ( which had been loaded with daytime tracers to give the germans the hibbidy-gibbidies!)


I think he got the DSO for his part in the attacks.

stathem
08-28-2007, 07:34 AM
There are other effects and considerations though.

Right at the outbreak of war Barnes-Wallis theorised the Grand Slam bomb. Its intention was to attack Germany's sources of power in all their forms, coal mines, power stations etc. He realised that the tiny GP bombs that the RAF had would be ineffective at damaging German industry. He sketched out a delivery method (and it was Wallis that designed the Wellington so he did know a thing or two about aircraft design.)

However, he wasn't taken seriously on the Grand Slam until after the Dams raid. After that, the Ministries did that him seriously, and he went on to build the Tallboy and Grand Slam. And whilst the Grand Slam really arrived too late to do much, the Tallboy, in destroying the V3 site and in good few other applications, made a real difference to the War.

Bewolf
08-28-2007, 07:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I always wondered why the Dambusters are held in so high regard. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think in the aftermath of so much war, and the plethora of biographical accounts that were being published, the focus on technical accomplishments combined with daring flying made it a good subject for Paul Brickhill's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Brickhill) writing-style.

In the 50's when I was growing up the RAF was revered for it's part in defending the island, and the burgeoning film industry delighted in the kind of technical effects that the original film is littered with.
After a very popular radio bandleader released a recording of the theme music, complete with the cultured tones of the 'chaps' throughout, saying "Steady....right a bit....steady" and "bang on, skipper, jolly good show" and "let's go home".

Now I've got the flipping tune stuck in my head! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Don't you just hate that?

Anyway, it was seen as a tribute to the heroic deeds of the RAF in general - though I doubt anyone thought it was particularly real. No one in those days would have taken a child to see the realities of where they had just been - and films like this were seen as family entertainment, not the virtual re-enactments that modern audiences seem to crave.

I think it reflects the ideals of the country at the time after the war and after the coronation of E II R. Britain's boffins bring us through! - onward into the atomic age, and all that. It wasn't until British authors such as Len Deighton started writing about subjects like Dresden that we (the post-war generation) began to hear about the fiercer, X-rated war that was flown by RAF bomber crews.

Despite the clipped accents and the "oh bother, I've been hit" "it's curtains for poor old Charlie" script - and that dratted Daa, da da, da da da da daH! that's echoing round my by-now deserted cranium, the film also celebrated the prowess of the enigmatic Barnes-Wallis in getting a new idea past the Air Marshals. (Not to mention having the idea and making it work!)

It was all redolent of Kipling and Baden-Powell and the "never mind manoeuvres, have at them" kind of tradition that filled bookshelves and sold films. It takes a Brit to get the full nuances of the sub-text, back in the days when they played the national anthem after the performance and everyone automatically stood up.

I doubt anything made nowadays can really capture the mood of the book and film, and its place in our consciousness. It's really celebrating the British ability to hit a pinpoint target and bring it down, while using the most primitive of hand-held sighting equipment, viz. B-P and the Scouting tradition. Back in the days when we ate Spam rather than wrote it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

B </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now this makes sense. *nods*

Thanks for typing that out.

Bewolf
08-28-2007, 07:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skoshi Tiger:
Just one example of how brave some of these guys were.

During the attacking the Möhne dam, Flt Lt Martin, After dropping his own planes upkeep bomb, flew parallel AJ-A (the 4th attacking Lancaster) with all his light on to attract the AAA fire away from the other lanc.

He instructed his gunners to take on the flak batteries with the Machine guns. ( which had been loaded with daytime tracers to give the germans the hibbidy-gibbidies!)


I think he got the DSO for his part in the attacks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never doubted the braveness of these men. From all I read about it, those men did one heck of a job.

My point is, so did others, and a lot of others, by far not getting as much attention.
Actually, only through these boards it came to my awareness the dambusters get that much credit in britain. Before that I considered it just one daring operation amongst many others.

Skunk_438RCAF
08-28-2007, 07:54 AM
I think the reason they get attention is because 617 was essentially a new squadron made up of the cream of the Bomber Command and trained to use specialized weapons. The only reason the Dams Raid may get so much attention is the fact it was their very first raid, and even though it was a failure, it was a major propaganda coup for the British.

I also believe that no single squadron should get all the attention. After all, had it not been for the huge team effort on the part of the allies, we'd all be eating lunch at the Nazi Café.

Skoshi Tiger
08-28-2007, 08:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
My point is, so did others, and a lot of others, by far not getting as much attention.
Actually, only through these boards it came to my awareness the dambusters get that much credit in britain. Before that I considered it just one daring operation amongst many others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's been 60 odd years since the war, and only in the last few year I've started to learn some of the thing my own father and his mates experienced during his stint in the Middle east and New Guinea/South Pacific.

In a lot of cases the veterans, for reasons of their own, just have chosen not to talk about what they did during the war.

The 617 Sqn's raid on the dams was public at the time and even if they wanted to, I don't think the people involved could get away from that publicity.

It wasn't the people that took part in the raids that made a big deal about it.

DuxCorvan
08-28-2007, 08:02 AM
I hope they don't make the film too sharp. That blurry image does a good job concealing some of the obviousness of the blotchy FX of those times.

And no, "********a" won't be in the movie.

han freak solo
08-28-2007, 08:07 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

han freak solo
08-28-2007, 08:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
we'd all be eating lunch at the Nazi Café. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've heard the schnitzel was very good there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

DuxCorvan
08-28-2007, 08:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skunk_438RCAF:
we'd all be eating lunch at the Nazi Café. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've heard the schnitzel was very good there. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agreed. Told that way, it doesn't look as bad. I'm almost tempted to order a cappuccino.

"Try the Apfelstrudel at Adolf's!"

Skunk_438RCAF
08-28-2007, 09:48 AM
Hey the Hanoi Hilton sounded nice too!

Bewolf
08-28-2007, 09:49 AM
Well, by all accounts, changing the british cuisine wouldn't have been that bad a result http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MB_Avro_UK
08-28-2007, 04:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bewolf:
I always wondered why the Dambusters are held in so high regard.

The intended goal to disrupt german war industry was not accomplished at all, nearly half the planes were lost and most casualties were allied prisoners of war. The only effect it had was a short in foodsupply for alot of drowned animals.

Sure, it was marvelous and very couragous flying displayed there and that requires praise. But that is true to countless other occasions nobody ever mentions anything about. The Taranto raid beeing a prime example. Not to belittle the aeronautical feats, it just appears pushed a bit out of prooportions.

That said, I still have to watch that movie. Films about the airwar are still way too rare, from either side's perspective. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bewolf has made very valid comments http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

But the raid was very unusual. The concept was conceived by Dr Barnes Wallis (he designed the Wellington and after the war the swing-wing fighter).

He overcame negative British Air Ministry opposition and 617 Squadron was created.

The lancasters flew at 60 feet (20m) over water to the target and their height was established by two lights under the fuselage that converged at that height.

So, they had to fly on a steady course illuminated by their belly lights towards the target http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

The raid was not a total success of course. But how could a few Lancasters totally disrupt the Ruhr industry anyway?

But those Lancasters caused the redirection of German resources in rebuilding the dams and providing extra flack.There was also reduced industrial production.

A valid comparison is the Doolitle raid by the USA against Tokyo in 1942. Damage was not huge but the propaganda effect was significant.

Just my thoughts...

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Skoshi Tiger
08-28-2007, 06:06 PM
The actual idea about destroying the Dams was thought up in the 1930 (well before the war) by the British millitary, as a way to disrupt Germany if they ever went to war.

Barnes Wallis worked out how to do it with his Upkeep bombs.

Its interesting to know that he had to hold back the British navy from using the technology (Highball bombs) to go after Battle ships. He didn't want the germans to work out a defence against it at the dams.

He also worked on another smaller version for use from torpedo boats. (I supose for bouncing over the torpedo nets as happened in the dams!)

If your arguing it was pointless, then you might as well argue that the POW that escaped from Stalag Luft III during the 'Great Escape'. was a waste of time.

On 75 people got out of the camp, 50 of thouse were murdered by the germans and only 3 got to freedom.

What did it achieve. It tied up valuabe german resources over many months saving countless lives on the fronts. It also showed the germans and the rest of the world that no matter how barbaric and ruthless their regime, ordinary people would continue to fight against any odds to defeat them. Which they did.

The moments caught in these films are like a spotlights that shines from the souls of all the people that fought for what was right nomatter how big or small was their contribution.

The actual people in the events were average people put into extraordinary situations. Thats why their place in these events is so fantastic.

Enforcer572005
08-28-2007, 08:44 PM
It's the unique nature of the raid and the weapons used that cause the attention. It was just way "different". It still had a tremendous local effect though, even if it wasn't quite what they hoped. Just another battle in a long war, but a really unique battle.

PLus, as stated, those guys were just courageous beyond belief, as were most airmen, but these guys just kept fighting. Gibson was killed later in the war. The odds were against allied bomber crews surviving, much less special ops.

M_Gunz
08-28-2007, 09:18 PM
Did those dams and generators get rebuilt?

Skoshi Tiger
08-28-2007, 09:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Did those dams and generators get rebuilt? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Mohne dam was repaired in 4 months by 2000 workers, but the power station was not rebuilt.

I don't think the others were repaired during the war.

It is interesting to note that the Geneva convention was modified in about 1976 to ban attacks like these. Aything that will unlease a force that had the potential to indiscrinately kill civilians.

M_Gunz
08-30-2007, 02:08 AM
Then that was 2000 workers for 4 months that could have been doing other things, plus materials
to rebuild. What other things? More V1 and V2 sites for starts. There was a lot of deliberate
indiscriminate killing of civilians going on then, and discriminate killings too, by all sides.

Side one of the Yes Relayer album is a song called The Gates of Delirium.
It starts out with "Stand and fight we do consider, reminded of an inner pact between us"
and works up from there including "burn their children's laughter on to hell".
I think the boys got the pattern about nailed, when military gets involved rules are only
there for appearances to and appeasement of civilians and allies. What gets written down
becomes "The Truth" with disagreements settled by rigged courts and politicians. You might
get a clearer picture 50+ years later but the books and educations before then mostly prevail.

luftluuver
08-30-2007, 02:34 AM
link, http://www.dambusters.org.uk/

and other info on 617

Low_Flyer_MkVb
08-30-2007, 02:40 AM
German bouncing bomb...copied from unexploded British, rocket powered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93AQQ9qYoQo

Skoshi Tiger
08-30-2007, 02:57 AM
The scary thing is that history is written by the victors. So I hope we weren't too liberal with the "TRUTH".

Even from the start when Germany started it's attack on Poland, WWII broke most of the conventions of war. (A broadside from a visiting battleship at point blank range Polish harbour was the Germanys 'Declaration of War')

After going through the Blitz, I guess the idea of collateral damage was sort of pushed to the side for the duration.

The thing that always gets me about WWII was sheer size and scale of the thing. Also throughout the horror and brutality of it all some extrodinary examples of humanity shine through. (Sort of gives one hope!)

For example, during the siege at Torbruk. During some of the battles, on both sides you had German and Australian doctors working in the same hospitals (On oth sides of the line)operating on Australian and German wounded without regard of if the patient was a prisoner or not. Patients were treated in order of their needs. Nationality was forgotten.

People forget that things like this did happen.

Bewolf
08-30-2007, 04:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Skoshi Tiger:
The scary thing is that history is written by the victors. So I hope we weren't too liberal with the "TRUTH".

Even from the start when Germany started it's attack on Poland, WWII broke most of the conventions of war. (A broadside from a visiting battleship at point blank range Polish harbour was the Germanys 'Declaration of War')

After going through the Blitz, I guess the idea of collateral damage was sort of pushed to the side for the duration.

The thing that always gets me about WWII was sheer size and scale of the thing. Also throughout the horror and brutality of it all some extrodinary examples of humanity shine through. (Sort of gives one hope!)

For example, during the siege at Torbruk. During some of the battles, on both sides you had German and Australian doctors working in the same hospitals (On oth sides of the line)operating on Australian and German wounded without regard of if the patient was a prisoner or not. Patients were treated in order of their needs. Nationality was forgotten.

People forget that things like this did happen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The desert war was kinda a seperated opertion all together anyways. From all theatres of war, it comes most closely to the "gallant" and "romantic" way of war. In part because Rommel had much more of a free hand there then other commanders had, without looks over the shoulder by the Nazi Party. Due to Rommels success he also could allow himself to overlook certain guidelines given by Berlin.

One interesting sidenote, until the british SAS operation to assasinate him, Rommel even did not like to have special ops behind enemy lines. Only after that he allowed limited action by the "Brandenburgers", the Wehrmacht's special ops organisation.

Bremspropeller
08-30-2007, 05:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well, by all accounts, changing the british cuisine wouldn't have been that bad a result </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cuisine-wise an invasion would be a win-win situation for the Brits http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Bo_Nidle
08-30-2007, 12:23 PM
We have gone over this ground before so I will just repost what I said before:

"A lot has been written and filmed about the Dambusters raid, an awful lot on these forums.

As for precision bombing I would venture that it was an extremely good example. The "Upkeep" bombs had to be delivered at an absolutely specific height, speed and distance from the target and also aimed at precise location on the dams. All this at night and against considerable opposition at some of the dams.

It may not have brought the destruction that was anticipated but it did nevertheless cause considerable damage to Ruhr industry. It also had the effect of tieing up Nazi resources in rebuilding industries and the dams themselves as well as tieing down further troops in strengthening the dams defences and those at other dams in case of another attack.

Most importantly it was a terrific morale booster to the Allies and their civilian populations in showing that British technology and design were still a formidable force, that the Germans could be given a bloody nose on their own territory and it was a remarkable example of Allied airmanship and personal courage.

It has become ingrained into the British psyche and has become part of our nations history.

As for the film remake I have said before that i am all for it as long as it is not butchered by the Political Correctness cadres and the effects are state of the art.(And we do not have a Yank playing Gibson. Nothing against the Americans but Gibson was one of ours and should be played by one of ours, warts and all)

I have long been an admirer of the raid, I have seen the grave of Gibsons dog at RAF Scampton and have Brickhills book in my collection. But the print "Breaching the dams" by Nicholas Trudgian, signed by some of the Dambusters themselves is my pride and joy. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif "
http://www.painterskeys.com/clickbacks/images/featured_artist/nicolas_trudgian/nt_lancaster_big.jpg

MB_Avro_UK
08-30-2007, 03:22 PM
Something that is not often noticed.

The Lancasters that had already dropped their bombs flew with their navigation lights on http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif alongside the attacking aircraft to draw the flack away from the attacking aircraft.

Talk about asking for trouble.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.