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View Full Version : He-219 blueprints? Modeller friend might undertake...



volkware.xyz
09-12-2005, 10:57 AM
Any source for detailed blueprints of the He-219? Gibbage? Mr. Maddox?

A good friend of mine is a brilliant and precise modeller, and if the right sources are available he *might* take a crack at doing the plane.

Also, any peculiarities involved in the process that a modeller needs to know about? Any writ available on this?

I am pursuing this myself because of course I love that plane. The better the sources available, the greater the chances this friend will try it. Thanks heaps.

volkware.xyz
09-12-2005, 10:57 AM
Any source for detailed blueprints of the He-219? Gibbage? Mr. Maddox?

A good friend of mine is a brilliant and precise modeller, and if the right sources are available he *might* take a crack at doing the plane.

Also, any peculiarities involved in the process that a modeller needs to know about? Any writ available on this?

I am pursuing this myself because of course I love that plane. The better the sources available, the greater the chances this friend will try it. Thanks heaps.

Jaws2002
09-12-2005, 11:08 AM
I think is way too late for this.

JG52Karaya-X
09-12-2005, 11:16 AM
And Oleg already stated that they wont introduce nightfighters of any sort (He219, P61, etc.) as they can't model them correcty and the programming of radar would take too much of their resources/time...

volkware.xyz
09-12-2005, 02:24 PM
Maybe its too late, maybe the nightfighter could be simulated without accounting for the radar system onboard, just like the 110 was (in its night-fighting configuration... its still there as an interceptor & bomber...). I`d rather hear what people in more 1C proximal positions have to say about all that though.

Information?

SaQSoN
09-12-2005, 03:26 PM
The deadline for accepting any 3rd party models was set to 31 March, 2005. Past that deadline no more models will be accepted.

Ok, now, what is the date today?..

volkware.xyz
09-12-2005, 09:29 PM
So say you - I see no 1C credentials behind that name.

I find someone who may be able to model a new aircraft for the game and you decide to be snippy. Its not appreciated.

I`m sorry but I missed the broadcast of CNN Prime Time that carried that story.

Anybody *else* have info? Perhaps a new aircraft might yet make it into the series... never say never. Unless of course somebody from 1C says so.

1C???

VW-IceFire
09-12-2005, 09:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Warlok_0:
So say you - I see no 1C credentials behind that name.

I find someone who may be able to model a new aircraft for the game and you decide to be snippy. Its not appreciated.

I`m sorry but I missed the broadcast of CNN Prime Time that carried that story.

Anybody *else* have info? Perhaps a new aircraft might yet make it into the series... never say never. Unless of course somebody from 1C says so.

1C??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
SaQSoN is one of the closest non Maddox games employee that we've got. When he says something, its usually correct and right.

Also keep in mind that I don't think he's a native english speaker. Various slavik (just assuming in this case) languages (like Russian) to English translation tends to come out short and sharp. I don't think its any slight against you or anyone.

And he is infact right. The Netwings development forums circulated information regarding a dealine that was essentially "Get your work done and submitted by March 31st."

As it stands, there are complete and presumably quality models that are in the books and not planned to be used. Not according to the list that Oleg circulated. There is a large backlog of completed models that were submitted during that time period. They are currently awaiting inclusion.

So I would say, based on what I know of the development proces, having played a small research role in it for one plane...that there will definately be no new models accepted.

Oleg of course is the final say. But based on information at hand...chances are slim to none. He-219 would be neat to have...and perhaps what your friend needs to do is think about looking at what the new engine will offer. When details are released, a quality He-219 night fighter with cockpit, radar station, and the whole deal for the new engine (Oleg did say radar night fighters would be possible) would be fantastic.

But right now...that time is not at hand.

SaQSoN
09-12-2005, 11:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Anybody *else* have info? Perhaps a new aircraft might yet make it into the series... never say never. Unless of course somebody from 1C says so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Basically, I don't mind, if some idiot would force his friend to do a hard work for free, only to find their train has left 1 year ago...

Why 1 year? Because, even a proffessional 3D designer without knowlege of the FB-specific modelling, working in his/her spare time would need about 1/2 year to build the extarnal model correctly. Add to that the time, that passed since the deadline, and... You got it.

Oh, and by the way, point your modeller friend to this thread:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/1341020453

So he would know how much work you suggest him to do in vain. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Also keep in mind that I don't think he's a native english speaker. Various slavik (just assuming in this case) languages (like Russian) to English translation tends to come out short and sharp. I don't think its any slight against you or anyone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, may be, not this time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

P.S. Besides, speaking seriously, I don't see any reason for that particular plane to be included without the cockpit. Which would take another year to build...

Gibbage1
09-13-2005, 01:36 AM
He-219 would be nice to have. A few have attempted but none have compleated.

I was going to model it myself back before I chose to work on the P-80/Go-229, but it was "taken" by another modeler.

Its a cool aircraft. I like its design! But I dont see it being a success in IL2. It was slow and not very nimble and IL2 has no real support for night fighting. The key to the He-219 was the night and radar. Not speed or manuverability.

It also had a rather NAstY weapons loadout http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F19_Olli72
09-13-2005, 02:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
He-219 would be nice to have. A few have attempted but none have compleated.

I was going to model it myself back before I chose to work on the P-80/Go-229, but it was "taken" by another modeler.

Its a cool aircraft. I like its design! But I dont see it being a success in IL2. It was slow and not very nimble and IL2 has no real support for night fighting. The key to the He-219 was the night and radar. Not speed or manuverability.

It also had a rather NAstY weapons loadout http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IIRC it wasnt that particularly slow? Checking online sources some versions were faster than Mosquitos.
(edit): "Fastest of all the He 219A series versions was the He 219A-7/R6 with 2,500-hp ( 1,865-kW ) Jumo 222A/B engines and a top speed of 435 mph ( 700 km/h ). Most aircraft were equipped with FuG 220 Lichtenstein SN-2 radar. Of all RAF Mosquitoes lost during night operations more than 60 per cent ( estimated ) fell to He 219s."
http://www.ww2guide.com/night.shtml

Oh and while we're talking nightfighters, someone please tell Oleg to make server forced gammasettings in BoB (Return to Castle Wolfenstein had this for example). Quite pointless to do nightmissions online now when everyone turns up gammasettings to daylight brightness.

Gibbage1
09-13-2005, 03:05 AM
From what I remember when I was doing my research, most of them had weaker engines and had trouble catching the Mossy, its intended target. I dont think there was many 219's with the 2500HP Jumo engines. The typical engine loadout was 1750-1900HP.

I could be wrong. Luftwaffe aircraft are not my strong point. Im sure Kurd will come in and bust my balz about getting something wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

EnsignKarl1
09-13-2005, 03:48 AM
No busting required Acoording to Gebhard Aders (author: Geschichte der deutschen Nachtjagd) the Uhu "Never achieved the values given in its manual. With almost full fuel and full armamnet it could not get above 8000 m. With the SN-2 and flame dampers its maximum speed was about 500 km/h" Even the last variant produced (and most produced) the A-7 used the DB 603 (G or E) with 1900 hp. Even the stripped anti-Mosquito version could only muster 650 km/h.
Without night fighting modelled, the Uhu would be better suited to ground attack with its various heavy armament. It is one of those planes that just looks too cool to have performed poorly. I would love to see it in the game, it is one of my favorites.
P.S. Gibbage, the P-80 and Go-229 are great additions (all additions are great). I have seen the 229 at the Garber Facility a couple of times, with some great shots by standing up in the front gear well into the cockpit. Just awesome.

KIMURA
09-13-2005, 04:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
From what I remember when I was doing my research, most of them had weaker engines and had trouble catching the Mossy, its intended target. I dont think there was many 219's with the 2500HP Jumo engines. The typical engine loadout was 1750-1900HP.

I could be wrong. Luftwaffe aircraft are not my strong point. Im sure Kurd will come in and bust my balz about getting something wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some are still in the believe NF Mossies patrolled at night @full speed settings along the bomber stream. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif There was no need for 650kph topseed to surprise a patrolling NF Mossie. Fights at night rather had to do with experience, electronics and surprise than with topspeeds and turning ability.

Gibbage1
09-14-2005, 03:08 AM
Also remember that yes, you dont always fly at top speed. You fly at cruise. The cruise for a mossy is VERY high. Something like 370MPH. Thats almost as fast as most single engine fighter top speed at some alts! Most fighters cruised at 250-270MPH! So the Mossy is always putting around at 350MPH+, and the intercepters at around 250-300MPH. See a problem? P-61 had the same problem. Poor climb and speed. But at least it did not have all the drag from the radar the Germans used http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ImpStarDuece
09-14-2005, 07:32 AM
370 mph is REALLY high, even for a Mosquito. Actually is just really high for anything. Fast-speed cruise (combat cruise) for a P-51D was around 350 mph (220 mph indicated at around 27,000 feet).

The MOsquito FB Mk VI that we are getting has a top speed of around 378 mph at altitude. The only variants I can see doing close to 370 mph cruise is a NF 30, with the high alt rated Merlin 72/76, or a PR 32 with the Merlin 113/114. Maybe some of the Bomber variants cruised that fast after they had dropped. A unladen MK XVI would pick up 10-12mph at critical altitudes.

berg417448
09-14-2005, 07:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Also remember that yes, you dont always fly at top speed. You fly at cruise. The cruise for a mossy is VERY high. Something like 370MPH. Thats almost as fast as most single engine fighter top speed at some alts! Most fighters cruised at 250-270MPH! So the Mossy is always putting around at 350MPH+, and the intercepters at around 250-300MPH. See a problem? P-61 had the same problem. Poor climb and speed. But at least it did not have all the drag from the radar the Germans used http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your estimate of cruise speeds is a bit high.

Did a search for Mosquito cruise speeds and found this:

Mosquito B XVI:
Cruise speed: 245mph (394kph).


Mosquito FB VI:
Cruise speed: 255mph (410kph).

Mosquito N.F.XIX :

Cruise speed: 295mph (476kph).


Most sources I found listed the cruise speed of the P-61 as 275 mph.

Popey109
09-14-2005, 08:57 AM
We should'nt be so short sited. Olegs BoB may very well expaaned into night campaigns! haveing someone prepareing for added aircraft can only be good for us http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif LET HIM MODEL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

DIRTY-MAC
09-14-2005, 11:19 AM
I think the tempest had the highest cruise speed of any fighter in WWII,
It was known for its extreemly high cruise speed
(and top speed)

volkware.xyz
09-14-2005, 11:49 AM
I have seen pictures of this aircraft without the nose radar array, so I assume it was at least sometimes used in conventional roles and not just for night-fighting.

Anybody have links to some detailed schematics/measurements for this plane? I found some very low resolution perspective views (top/side/front) on my own, but nothing near adequate for accuracy.

P.S.: YES - love the weaponry lists for this thing. Besides that it has character visually.

womenfly
09-14-2005, 12:24 PM
On my visit to the "Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center" near Washington Dulles International Airport ... enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/womenfly2/He-219/DSC02404.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/womenfly2/He-219/DSC02405.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/womenfly2/He-219/DSC02406.jpg

Popey109
09-14-2005, 01:20 PM
Nice pick womenfly, wasn€t the 219 the first to have a steerable nose gear? Also the first to use ejection seats?...fast or not, would love to fly her in BoB for some late night rendezvou http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

p1ngu666
09-14-2005, 01:29 PM
that one would be fast in a dive, anyways http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

well, the FBVI had low alt engines, like LF spitvb but even more so.
so its critical alt was low..

so low topspeed yes, but it does a laughable 354mph on the deck. with droptanks. and a full load.
in the book "day bomber" he stats several times they where doing 366mph on the deck after dropping there bombs (4x 500lb, 2 on wingracks)

i think the bomber mossies would average 300mph on the way to target bit higher on way back, depends on the target distance, time etc.

PR aircraft often averaged 300mph+ easily for the entire sortie, and the PR aircraft arent much different from the bombers.

Kimura is mostly correct, if u have good radar then u are in the box seats. but most german night fighters where like 110, dragy radar, (didnt help handling at all either) 3 crew, probably drop tanks aswell.

btw the he219 mighty mossie killer, actully was equal with mossie when killin each other http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif 13 or 17 to each i forget..

EnsignKarl1
09-14-2005, 02:18 PM
Excellent picture Womenfly! I remember seeing it in the warehouse pre-restoration. It looks awesome now. I wonder when they'll get to some of their other oddities...
Planned variants for the 219 did include fighter bombers, but weren't built. And yes the nightfighting game was all about position and making an intercept so speed was not *as* important, but 219s were generally outmatched in performance by the mosquito and most German night intercepts ended with a 6-o'clock attack. I'd love to see the 219 in the game though, why not. Its a great looking aircraft, and Im sure somebody could find something fun to do with it.

volkware.xyz
09-14-2005, 03:01 PM
Wow.

One of the photos I came across was from a decrepit collection in some warehouse hangar somewhere - the rust and decay were truly awful sights, the plane as dismantled as it was anyway.

What a superb contrast. And good camera hand too! Funny how this aircraft looks so massive compared to my initial thoughts regarding its weapon loadout: I was thinking that you would be hard-pressed to find room for all the cannon on such a slender fuselage, but that plane is actually quite big.

Will investigate stuff - thanks again...

(bows Aztec Sungod`ishly)

"But look at all the GUNS..."

KIMURA
09-16-2005, 03:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by womenfly:
On my visit to the "Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center" near Washington Dulles International Airport ... enjoy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/womenfly2/He-219/DSC02404.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/womenfly2/He-219/DSC02405.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v716/womenfly2/He-219/DSC02406.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Womenfly, thanks for sharing the UHU-pics. I just linked your picture over there to the German forum, cause I'm sure there will be some interest on them.

Daiichidoku
09-17-2005, 12:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Popey109:
Nice pick womenfly, wasn€t the 219 the first to have a steerable nose gear? Also the first to use ejection seats?...fast or not, would love to fly her in BoB for some late night rendezvou http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


the 219 was the second to have EJ seats..the first was another heinkel product, the worlds first jet fighter, 1941 He 280

the 219 was at least the first to have UV lighting for instruments

dont have my references with me, there in storage for the next few eeeks, at least, but the 219 did have a VERY good cruise speed

it was fitted out with many engine combos, but, as gibbage pointed out, most were saddled with the lower power jobs...had to do with supply and demand issues

also had a great number of armament combos, too, one including 4x mk 103s...two in wing root, two in belly...NAstY, indeed....experiments were also carried out with tail barbettes, inc 4x 151mg, and AFAIK, with 2x mk 108s!!!!!

as with the He 280, and many other great potential AC, the RLM dropped the ball with the 219, and it could have been made in far higher numbers, much sooner than it did http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

volkware.xyz
09-21-2005, 02:02 PM
Unfortunately, according to an archivist at the Smithsonian, schematics for the 219 did not survive the end of the war - Germans destroyed them before surrendering.

Of note: the standard 4 20mm cannon were mounted in the nose module, with housings available for 2 more 20s or 2 30mm in the wing roots. This is for the 219 A. The A ideally came with radar and were flown by a radar operator and a pilot, but often appeared without the in-short-supply radar array and therefore too without the radar operator.