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View Full Version : Lets talk about some bp buffs now.



Girl2Good
03-14-2019, 11:17 PM
Alright so everyone doesn't like bp and Iget that, but they gimped him too hard now. So lets give him some buffs in some other areas to compensate.

First: Lets make his bash recoveries cancelable with bulwark

Second: let him throw a lite on a wiffed bash

Third: Buff dmg of Bulwark

Fourth: either buff tracking on delayed bash or remove it to make gbs easier to do on a failed bash read by the opponent.

Siegfried-Z
03-15-2019, 12:00 AM
I gess this is a joke

Knight_Raime
03-15-2019, 01:30 AM
From preliminary testing it seems like BP's bash is still pretty hard to punish. More dodge attacks seem to be working for the neutral bash. But the bash in combo seems basically still impossible to punish (if you were hit stunned by the light or blocked his light while he's in revenge.) The verdict is still out on it though. Though to stay on the topic at hand these are the buffs i'd personally want BP to get at some point:

~Dash heavy gets a range and tracking increase
~all crushing counter hits get a damage buff
~Bullwark heavy GB vulnerability reduced by 100ms
~Bash in combo gets an increase in range when delayed
~Soft feint bash now has better tracking and shorter recovery
~running heavy attack speed bumped up from 1000ms to 800ms

EvoX.
03-15-2019, 05:59 AM
He wasn't gimped too hard, he was brought down to an equal ground with the rest of the heroes. Not compared to Warden, but compared to every other hero, which is still putting it very generously, considering he's still better than most of them.

But if we're talking buffs:

1. Buff to his dash heavy
2. Buff to his sprint heavy (what is even the functionality of this move right now?)
3. Ability to softfeint heavies into bulwark

He'll get an indirect buff in Season 10 as well. Once static guard heroes are rid of that attack delay on guard switch, his Crushing Counter will be almost as good as parry attempts from any side.

Siegfried-Z
03-15-2019, 12:10 PM
From preliminary testing it seems like BP's bash is still pretty hard to punish. More dodge attacks seem to be working for the neutral bash. But the bash in combo seems basically still impossible to punish (if you were hit stunned by the light or blocked his light while he's in revenge.) The verdict is still out on it though. Though to stay on the topic at hand these are the buffs i'd personally want BP to get at some point:

~Dash heavy gets a range and tracking increase
~all crushing counter hits get a damage buff
~Bullwark heavy GB vulnerability reduced by 100ms
~Bash in combo gets an increase in range when delayed
~Soft feint bash now has better tracking and shorter recovery
~running heavy attack speed bumped up from 1000ms to 800ms

Yes. I've test it, the only noticeable difference are with Shaman among the char i play.
Still Valk, Kensei, Shaolin and glad dodge into light cant punish it.
I didn't test it for Nuxia because i dont play her but i gess if now Shaman dodge attack works, Nuxia should too.. if anyone can confirm this ?

About the proposal buff i agree with his dash foward heavy and rush attack.
But he is strong enough without buffing his SB tracking while softfeinted or delayed To me.

Girl2Good
03-15-2019, 01:21 PM
This is all coming from a high level player though, so if you're anything below a Master rank then I can see why you had trouble against him before. I understand the dmg nerfs, those don't bother me. What bothers me is the Bulwark nerf and no tracking buff on his sb to compensate the nerf.

I'd always rather see buffs then nerfs, but now we should be getting the Warden sb nerf making it so she can't cancel whenever she wants and a Zerk nerf taking away all the hyper armor as well as the shaman nerf where she has to commit to her pounce.

I don't want to see anyone get nerfed, but if that's what the community wants then I suppose that's what we'll get.

Vakris_One
03-15-2019, 01:25 PM
The tweaks I would like to see for him are:

- Increase tracking and range of his dash forward heavy

- Buff the speed and AoE of his running attack. This thing is useless as both an attack and at minion clearing currently.

- Fix his unusually long recovery after a throw from GB. NOTE: While you're at it, decrease Shugoki's recovery from a whiffed hug because that too is not right.

- Fix the whole late guard switch guarranteeing BP's bash when blocking his light.

Siegfried-Z
03-15-2019, 03:25 PM
The tweaks I would like to see for him are:

- Increase tracking and range of his dash forward heavy

- Buff the speed and AoE of his running attack. This thing is useless as both an attack and at minion clearing currently.

- Fix his unusually long recovery after a throw from GB. NOTE: While you're at it, decrease Shugoki's recovery from a whiffed hug because that too is not right.

- Fix the whole late guard switch guarranteeing BP's bash when blocking his light.

This, would be perfect

rottmeister
03-15-2019, 03:49 PM
The tweaks I would like to see for him are:

- Increase tracking and range of his dash forward heavy

- Buff the speed and AoE of his running attack. This thing is useless as both an attack and at minion clearing currently.

- Fix his unusually long recovery after a throw from GB. NOTE: While you're at it, decrease Shugoki's recovery from a whiffed hug because that too is not right.

- Fix the whole late guard switch guarranteeing BP's bash when blocking his light.

The amount of times I whiffed the forward dash heavy is insane. it isn't by a lot either, usually he stops in front of the enemy's face and there's that awkward little pause and then I'll usually throw out a light instead :/ . Wouldn't be bothered by these buffs. As long as I can punish his bash

EvoX.
03-15-2019, 07:36 PM
This is all coming from a high level player though, so if you're anything below a Master rank then I can see why you had trouble against him before.

You're not even close to the top players who were in agreement his bash was way too good/safe while playing against way better Prior players than you, so what's the point of mentioning this?

Girl2Good
03-15-2019, 08:35 PM
You're not even close to the top players who were in agreement his bash was way too good/safe while playing against way better Prior players than you, so what's the point of mentioning this?

My point is that besides the original light, bash, light oos bug I never had an issue fighting Black Priors (Using Aramusha). Now they're just weak sauce. He's just a beginner stomper.

Also, you've never fought against me. So don't act like you know my skill level. I've beaten some of the best players in the world (using Aramusha mind you) I'm fith in the world on PC with him and got to Master rank (almost grandmaster until I lost interest in ranked) using only Aramusha.

So that's why I mentioned that.

Siegfried-Z
03-15-2019, 08:40 PM
My point is that besides the original light, bash, light oos bug I never had an issue fighting Black Priors (Using Aramusha). Now they're just weak sauce. He's just a beginner stomper.

Also, you've never fought against me. So don't act like you know my skill level. I've beaten some of the best players in the world (using Aramusha mind you) I'm fith in the world on PC with him and got to Master rank (almost grandmaster until I lost interest in ranked) using only Aramusha.

So that's why I mentioned that.

Doesn't matter if you are ranked number 5 on pc or not while you're saying wrong things.
I didn't see ANY ytubers ranked Master or GM saying BP is balance. Even after the patch so far.
Saying he is now a weak sauce is deeply wrong.
Not only beginners got troubles against him, it is the whole community, including top players.

Girl2Good
03-15-2019, 08:46 PM
Doesn't matter if you are ranked number 5 on pc or not while you're saying wrong things.
I didn't see ANY ytubers ranked Master or GM saying BP is balance. Even after the patch so far.
Saying he is now a weak sauce is deeply wrong.
Not only beginners got troubles against him, it is the whole community, including top players.

Except me, I had no issues. Sure I've lost to them, but it was my mistakes. Not the character being to strong.

Most of the community in this game don't like to learn strategic ways on how to beat characters. They just lose and cry for nerfs. Every time.

Edit: Oh, and YouTubers are not the end all be all of what is op or not.

atac56
03-15-2019, 09:10 PM
Except me, I had no issues. Sure I've lost to them, but it was my mistakes. Not the character being to strong.

Most of the community in this game don't like to learn strategic ways on how to beat characters. They just lose and cry for nerfs. Every time.

Edit: Oh, and YouTubers are not the end all be all of what is op or not.

facts. i'm no for honor god and ive never had much trouble with BP's. stay on the offensive and guardbreak often. the shieldbash light gimmick was for killing turtles before they pop revenge. out of all the dlc characters he was definitely the easiest to deal with on release date

Vakris_One
03-15-2019, 09:31 PM
Except me, I had no issues. Sure I've lost to them, but it was my mistakes. Not the character being to strong.

Most of the community in this game don't like to learn strategic ways on how to beat characters. They just lose and cry for nerfs. Every time.

Edit: Oh, and YouTubers are not the end all be all of what is op or not.
2 things:

1) Please remember that your opinions are not the end all, be all authority on Vortiger. They're just opinions like everybody elses.

2) Much higher ranked and more experienced competitive level players than yourself have brought up legitimate issues with Vortiger. Including the over tuned nature of his bash recovery coupled with his followup light damage and his Bullwark stance being able to be exited on reaction to feints while still recovering in time to counter GB.

The fact these guys can still beat a Vortiger player when they want to does not ovewrite their objective criticism about his kit.That is the purpose of being objective about a character after all, rather than going "Lol, I can beat randoms playing him so that means he's garbo."

Girl2Good
03-15-2019, 09:51 PM
2 things:

1) Please remember that your opinions are not the end all, be all authority on Vortiger. They're just opinions like everybody elses.

2) Much higher ranked and more experienced competitive level players than yourself have brought up legitimate issues with Vortiger. Including the over tuned nature of his bash recovery coupled with his followup light damage and his Bullwark stance being able to be exited on reaction to feints while still recovering in time to counter GB.

The fact these guys can still beat a Vortiger player when they want to does not ovewrite their objective criticism about his kit.That is the purpose of being objective about a character after all, rather than going "Lol, I can beat randoms playing him so that means he's garbo."

I know my opinions are not the end all be all either, I never said I was the best at the game either. Just a high level player (which I in fact am).

As I've previously stated, I am not aggravated about the dmg nerfs or the bash recovery nerf. I'm aggravated that they change things without buffing other areas. Look at warlord for example. He was the best character in the game, got nerfed hard without any other compensation and became one of the worst (stats aside, unlocking and crashing charge was the only reason he was good). The full guard recovery didn't need changed either. It was a good gb bait and if you read your opponent wrong and went for the bulwark flip or unblockable, that's when they get their chance for the free gb. It is now one of the riskiest moves in the game and not really worth it tbh.

Siegfried-Z
03-15-2019, 11:03 PM
Except me, I had no issues. Sure I've lost to them, but it was my mistakes. Not the character being to strong.

Most of the community in this game don't like to learn strategic ways on how to beat characters. They just lose and cry for nerfs. Every time.

Edit: Oh, and YouTubers are not the end all be all of what is op or not.

This isnt a question about strategy or training. This is just a fact that BP kit is extremly safe and effective. Which means he almost take no risk with his offense but it still allow him To score dmg very easly.

Plus, ytubers may not be the end of all, but when the overall high level player base (and all others btw) says he isnt balance and when the game direction decide To nerf him not even two month after release without waiting for some stats, this means a lot more than your own opinion.

I win regularly against BP, i also loose some. But tbh, when i win this is mostly because i am better then my opponent. If i fight someone of my skills (top 3%) who plays BP. . I am pretty sure to loose if i didn't play him myself or another S tier char.


I know my opinions are not the end all be all either, I never said I was the best at the game either. Just a high level player (which I in fact am).

As I've previously stated, I am not aggravated about the dmg nerfs or the bash recovery nerf. I'm aggravated that they change things without buffing other areas. Look at warlord for example. He was the best character in the game, got nerfed hard without any other compensation and became one of the worst (stats aside, unlocking and crashing charge was the only reason he was good). The full guard recovery didn't need changed either. It was a good gb bait and if you read your opponent wrong and went for the bulwark flip or unblockable, that's when they get their chance for the free gb. It is now one of the riskiest moves in the game and not really worth it tbh.

While in theory i would agree with that part, WL isnt a good example.
BP isnt even near to WL balancing state after the nerf. He is still a better version of WL.


facts. i'm no for honor god and ive never had much trouble with BP's. stay on the offensive and guardbreak often. the shieldbash light gimmick was for killing turtles before they pop revenge. out of all the dlc characters he was definitely the easiest to deal with on release date

You just said in another thread Kensei should be nerf ...
I dont even know how it is possible To say BP is fine but Kensei should be nerf.

UbiInsulin
03-16-2019, 12:46 AM
I'll send these different suggestions along to the team. It is probably way too soon to say whether BP needs buffs, but it won't hurt. :)

MrB3NX
03-16-2019, 04:40 AM
I'll send these different suggestions along to the team. It is probably way too soon to say whether BP needs buffs, but it won't hurt. :)

thanks to your team i'm no longer putting my contracts on black prior

very disappointing changes .

EvoX.
03-16-2019, 06:31 AM
My point is that besides the original light, bash, light oos bug I never had an issue fighting Black Priors (Using Aramusha). Now they're just weak sauce. He's just a beginner stomper.

First of all, after being in enough fights against him, he seems nearly as unpunishable as before. No clue how an apprently 200ms slower recovery can seem so negligible - Guardbreaks are still impossible without a hard read and dodge attacks are now inconsistent instead of impossible. What a nerf, the bash barely feels different, while the 2-3 point damage reduction is nothing special.

Saying he's ''weak sauce/beginner stomper'' is objectively wrong. You have way too high of an opinion about your skill, I think.


Also, you've never fought against me. So don't act like you know my skill level. I've beaten some of the best players in the world (using Aramusha mind you) I'm fith in the world on PC with him and got to Master rank (almost grandmaster until I lost interest in ranked) using only Aramusha.

So that's why I mentioned that.

Again, much higher ranked and more experienced players than yourself were having trouble against similarly skilled players using Prior, and all of them agreed he needed noticeable adjustments. But you, a much lower skilled player, apparently weren't sharing that experience, and the original line I quoted heavily implied you believe anyone Master or above shouldn't have had trouble against Prior and/or thought he should be toned downed, and/or only noobs wanted him nerfed. But that just contradicts the fact at the beginning of this paragraph, making any sort of skill comparisons when it comes to Prior completely irrelevant, since he was seen as overtuned at a much higher level than you seem to think is the end of Prior's viability.

So yeah, zero reason to mention your skill level, at all.

Siegfried-Z
03-16-2019, 08:32 AM
I'll send these different suggestions along to the team. It is probably way too soon to say whether BP needs buffs, but it won't hurt. :)

This is probably going to be the weirdest feedback ever 😅
Seriously, do you want the truth Ubi ??

-His foward dodge heavy need a better range/tracking : it is very bad right now
-Same for his rush attack

But In another hand, even after the patch he is too strong. Because his Bash game is still impossible to deal with .
You read his bash ? No reward for that untill you play one of the lucky char which can.punish it.
Then you keep dodging it for your safety at least ? He catch you with the zone .
You dont dodge it ? 17dmg.
You dodge too early because any others defense than gessing work ? You get an undodgeable 35dmg heavy.

Then, you think attack is the best défense! But oups he has crushing counters on every direction and shut you down with random lights and unlucky crushing counter for being to offensive...

Ok, there you go, i cant be To offensive but i cant just wait for the light parry or the SB game gonna start again ..

Hum what should i do?? Oh yeah spacing ! Spacing is the BP weakness !
-> ****, he just him himself..

Thanks :)

Ive written this on a funny tone, but this is kind of true.

BP should have one way to SB remoove from his kit in my opinion.
Why not letting him his dodge SB, his zone SB and his softfeint SB.

But the SB after a light is too strong.
And still the recovery of the guy not only on SB but even on lights or heavies is crazy.

It is not only a question about Buff or Nerf, this is pure balance, BP kit should not be that much Bash oriented.

At the begenning i was not that hard with BP because i was trying it myself. . So mostly playing BP against BP. You realize how he is unfair only when you play others char against him.

Girl2Good
03-16-2019, 12:31 PM
First of all, after being in enough fights against him, he seems nearly as unpunishable as before. No clue how an apprently 200ms slower recovery can seem so negligible - Guardbreaks are still impossible without a hard read and dodge attacks are now inconsistent instead of impossible. What a nerf, the bash barely feels different, while the 2-3 point damage reduction is nothing special.

Saying he's ''weak sauce/beginner stomper'' is objectively wrong. You have way too high of an opinion about your skill, I think.



Again, much higher ranked and more experienced players than yourself were having trouble against similarly skilled players using Prior, and all of them agreed he needed noticeable adjustments. But you, a much lower skilled player, apparently weren't sharing that experience, and the original line I quoted heavily implied you believe anyone Master or above shouldn't have had trouble against Prior and/or thought he should be toned downed, and/or only noobs wanted him nerfed. But that just contradicts the fact at the beginning of this paragraph, making any sort of skill comparisons when it comes to Prior completely irrelevant, since he was seen as overtuned at a much higher level than you seem to think is the end of Prior's viability.

So yeah, zero reason to mention your skill level, at all.

Alright dude, I shouldn't have mentioned my skill level at the game so get off it. I didn't mean to trigger you with that.

All I'm saying is black prior needs some more done to him in the way of buffs, that's all.

I don't struggle against him at all as a character and I find him too easy. Even though I disagree, It's ok if you or anybody else have a hard time against him and want him nerfed. Those are your opinions and these are mine.

All of his shield bashes are 100% reactable and easy to dodge (Conqs are much worse). If he dashes forward for a fake bash to gb just throw out a side light. His guard automatically goes to the top on a forward dash, it's a free lite, plus it will also beat his zone if he tries that. His lites are slow and easy to parry as with his heavies. Now his bulwark is even easier to get the gb. His unblockable is 100% reactable and easy to tell if he's going to let it fly or feint it.


There are other heroes who need the nerfs (if that's what we want to do is nerf, however I'm against it) worse than Black Prior did. So the only reason Bp is catching the heat is because he's a new character.

Which brings me to a question for you. Name a character that has been released that the community didn't call op and wanted nerfed? This happens every time it's nothing new, but if we keep calling for nerfs instead of learning how to defeat a character then we as a community are going to turn this into a dull game.

Vakris_One
03-16-2019, 01:52 PM
I know my opinions are not the end all be all either, I never said I was the best at the game either. Just a high level player (which I in fact am).

As I've previously stated, I am not aggravated about the dmg nerfs or the bash recovery nerf. I'm aggravated that they change things without buffing other areas. Look at warlord for example. He was the best character in the game, got nerfed hard without any other compensation and became one of the worst (stats aside, unlocking and crashing charge was the only reason he was good). The full guard recovery didn't need changed either. It was a good gb bait and if you read your opponent wrong and went for the bulwark flip or unblockable, that's when they get their chance for the free gb. It is now one of the riskiest moves in the game and not really worth it tbh.
I'm of a similiar opinion in that I don't like seeing a list of hard nerfs for a character that should be properly balanced out. In Raime's thread about the additional patch changes I said as much and that I don't want a return to getting a Warlord after his hard nerfs or a PK after her crowbar to the legs.

I don't feel Vortiger needs a lot of straight up buffs though. In my opinion he just needs the power balance of his kit shifted slightly away from his bashing and equalised into a chase tool. He's got enough there to be a well rounded hero but the devs seem to just want to push him into being a one-trick shield bash platform.

Jiang Jun is much closer to heading towards the category of a hard nerfed Warlord imo because they didn't do a thing for his glaring issues in a 1v1. His damage nerfs are fine but they straight up deleted the Soothing Mist feat. No mention or acknowledgement of his utter lack of a 1v1 presence.


I'll send these different suggestions along to the team. It is probably way too soon to say whether BP needs buffs, but it won't hurt. :)
He doesn't need straight up buffs. Much like Warden the Black Prior (and Jiang Jun, and Conqueror, and Gladiator) needs a balance pass. Tweaking BP's damage and recovery numbers is just a first step. Now you have to look at what the character needs in order for him to be more versatile and not to be just a one-trick whose power is too unevenly skewed towards a single move.

Sweaty_Sock
03-16-2019, 02:09 PM
He doesn't need straight up buffs. Much like Warden the Black Prior (and Jiang Jun, and Conqueror, and Gladiator) needs a balance pass. Tweaking BP's damage and recovery numbers is just a first step. Now you have to look at what the character needs in order for him to be more versatile and not to be just a one-trick whose power is too unevenly skewed towards a single move.

+1 on this

Although I might add you need to nerf the 1 trick pony aspect first, then look at where the rest of the kit lacks prior to rework/balance pass otherwise its just another roll of the dice, should get all abilities = and if the character lacks at this point then build the character back up

Girl2Good
03-16-2019, 02:28 PM
He doesn't need straight up buffs. Much like Warden the Black Prior (and Jiang Jun, and Conqueror, and Gladiator) needs a balance pass. Tweaking BP's damage and recovery numbers is just a first step. Now you have to look at what the character needs in order for him to be more versatile and not to be just a one-trick whose power is too unevenly skewed towards a single move.

I agree. When I say buff this is what I mean really. Adding stuff and tweaking the character for the better. Balance pass is a better word for it.

Sweaty_Sock
03-16-2019, 03:05 PM
Another thing is I don't know if the dash forward needs to be buffed, its a chain initiate that carries crushing counter

Vendelkin
03-16-2019, 06:33 PM
Been reading without response for a few days now to a bunch of threads. Just popping in to say im astounded how bent out of shape people are getting at the BP nerf. I understand people getting frustrated with jjs cause it was a big dmg hammer and im aware of the discussed issues he supposedly has(even if im happy about it) but BPs nerf was extremely minor.

No significantly dehabilitating changes.
Going into bulwark now actually carries some risk (oh wow a move that can actually be punished by gb as it was intended)
Bash game change is so minimal that still most of the cast cant punish it in any way.
And dmg on a light that was far above standard metrics for lights, (especially guaranteed lights) went down by 3.

The only change that MAYBE shouldnt have happened is his heavy finisher 5 dmg nerf.

Please stop encouraging the devs to not make changes. I would love to have a more constant stream of small tweaks and changes than the massive blackouts we get of stagnation

But come on the guy has crazy sweeps, glorious recoveries, and incredible defense. He doesnt need to hit and move like the juggernaut too guys. He still actually needs more "bug fixes".

I would be fine with his forward dash being buffed at some point, i get how crappy it is i have played him.

I also just cant believe people would even consider trying to get him buffed even in his now mildly nerfed state because soooooooooooo many other heroes need to be made "viable" first. This literally blows my mind and is why i havent responded till now. I mean really. Pushing for your main black prior in the current state of balance is extremely selfish.

There has thankfully been some good discussion regarding balance pass. But yeah balancing is better done in minor nerfs and buffs than sweeping changes that are hardnto calculate the effects of. If the are going to tweak/rework/balance pass his kit (BP) they need to start with nerfs and reigning in his op moves to see what his weakness truly are and where he falls data wise before making any buffs.

rottmeister
03-16-2019, 06:58 PM
Been reading without response for a few days now to a bunch of threads. Just popping in to say im astounded how bent out of shape people are getting at the BP nerf. I understand people getting frustrated with jjs cause it was a big dmg hammer and im aware of the discussed issues he supposedly has(even if im happy about it) but BPs nerf was extremely minor.

No significantly dehabilitating changes.
Going into bulwark now actually carries some risk (oh wow a move that can actually be punished by gb as it was intended)
Bash game change is so minimal that still most of the cast cant punish it in any way.
And dmg on a light that was far above standard metrics for lights, (especially guaranteed lights) went down by 3.

The only change that MAYBE shouldnt have happened is his heavy finisher 5 dmg nerf.

Please stop encouraging the devs to not make changes. I would love to have a more constant stream of small tweaks and changes than the massive blackouts we get of stagnation

But come on the guy has crazy sweeps, glorious recoveries, and incredible defense. He doesnt need to hit and move like the juggernaut too guys. He still actually needs more "bug fixes".

I would be fine with his forward dash being buffed at some point, i get how crappy it is i have played him.

I also just cant believe people would even consider trying to get him buffed even in his now mildly nerfed state because soooooooooooo many other heroes need to be made "viable" first. This literally blows my mind and is why i havent responded till now. I mean really. Pushing for your main black prior in the current state of balance is extremely selfish.

There has thankfully been some good discussion regarding balance pass. But yeah balancing is better done in minor nerfs and buffs than sweeping changes that are hardnto calculate the effects of. If the are going to tweak/rework/balance pass his kit (BP) they need to start with nerfs and reigning in his op moves to see what his weakness truly are and where he falls data wise before making any buffs.

I haven't played after the update released yet, but I can see how people want recompensation after the recovery of both his bash and full block has been nerfed.
I don't think he HAS to be buffed but if I'd buff him I'd do it like so: I would most likely only increase the range/tracking of both his dash heavy as his out of lock running heavy, increase the damage of his crushing counter just a little bit and maybe give him the ability to softfeint into full block as I've seen people suggest. He's a good hero imo, doesn't need buffs, but it couldn't hurt talking about some 'imperfections'.

I do agree that other heroes need to be prioritized though since there are heroes who still aren't fully 'viable'.

P.S. love your video's man, you've got 1 new subscriber. Really like your fashion/history and weekly arcade videos. I spend way too much time in customization and I can't seem to create an outfit I like (except for Nobushi, hers looks fresh af), so your video's are really helpful :) .

Girl2Good
03-16-2019, 07:19 PM
Been reading without response for a few days now to a bunch of threads. Just popping in to say im astounded how bent out of shape people are getting at the BP nerf. I understand people getting frustrated with jjs cause it was a big dmg hammer and im aware of the discussed issues he supposedly has(even if im happy about it) but BPs nerf was extremely minor.

No significantly dehabilitating changes.
Going into bulwark now actually carries some risk (oh wow a move that can actually be punished by gb as it was intended)
Bash game change is so minimal that still most of the cast cant punish it in any way.
And dmg on a light that was far above standard metrics for lights, (especially guaranteed lights) went down by 3.

The only change that MAYBE shouldnt have happened is his heavy finisher 5 dmg nerf.

Please stop encouraging the devs to not make changes. I would love to have a more constant stream of small tweaks and changes than the massive blackouts we get of stagnation

But come on the guy has crazy sweeps, glorious recoveries, and incredible defense. He doesnt need to hit and move like the juggernaut too guys. He still actually needs more "bug fixes".

I would be fine with his forward dash being buffed at some point, i get how crappy it is i have played him.

I also just cant believe people would even consider trying to get him buffed even in his now mildly nerfed state because soooooooooooo many other heroes need to be made "viable" first. This literally blows my mind and is why i havent responded till now. I mean really. Pushing for your main black prior in the current state of balance is extremely selfish.

There has thankfully been some good discussion regarding balance pass. But yeah balancing is better done in minor nerfs and buffs than sweeping changes that are hardnto calculate the effects of. If the are going to tweak/rework/balance pass his kit (BP) they need to start with nerfs and reigning in his op moves to see what his weakness truly are and where he falls data wise before making any buffs.

The only part of the nerf that really ticked me off is the bulwark nerf. In my mind the full block aspect was used for baiting gb attempts. It wasn't until you went for the flip or unblockable that you're fully gb vulnerable. They completely took out the mind game portion of it and made it fully vulnerable without any p ok lother compensation. It's now one of the most risky moves (besides blade blockade) and the rewards isn't all that great

I don't care about the sb nerf or dmg nerf.