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alert_1
12-05-2005, 03:57 AM
Me109? Fox ex. powerloading fo Me109G2 (3043/1475) is the same as Fw190A8 (4230/2050)?

alert_1
12-05-2005, 03:57 AM
Me109? Fox ex. powerloading fo Me109G2 (3043/1475) is the same as Fw190A8 (4230/2050)?

danjama
12-05-2005, 04:00 AM
Dude, obviously it's because that is how it was in real life comparison. Get with the programme http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

This aint no CFS game, this is forgotten battles. If you like the 109 flight model fly that, dont come here spamming about the 190's "brick like" qualities. Its a plane that takes patience to learn. Like it or lump it.

*edit* besides you cannot determine how a plane will fly just by lookin at power to weight ratio. You gotta look at a whole range of things. Example wing area, size of control surfaces (How big is ailerons) etc etc. Many things. You are being too narrow minded and making assumptions.

p1ngu666
12-05-2005, 05:03 AM
fly a5/6 or dora
really not brick like

SeaFireLIV
12-05-2005, 05:10 AM
From when i was a kid the FW190 was my fave Axis plane (just cos it looked good and tough). But later I discovered it simply didn`t fly the way i wanted itto (turning in circles). I discovered I had to have a LOT of discipline: Fly straight, Boom and Zoom, DON`T get into a turn fight.

So I stopped liking the 190.

Did I whine about it? No, I checked up the basic WWII flying books and discovered that its performance compared to other aircraft was similar. It performs good, but you have to fly it differently to get the best out of it _ Some can do this really well.

I can`t.

Kuna15
12-05-2005, 05:28 AM
Seafire says good. I however never liked FW-190 because I never liked that style. Aircraft is a good looking tho; especially Dora / TA-152 I considered them as one of the best looking fighter of ww2.

Codex1971
12-05-2005, 05:31 AM
The FW is in a class of it's own...you need to study "it" and learn from "it".

Read some books on the FW...read alot of them.

I have been flying it online for about a year now and I'm still not that good in it, but when I fly it right shes the sweatest plane to fly in.

The FW is most unforgiving plane in the sim...if you treat it badly it will punish you big time...treat it well and you'll get the most satisfying kills any virtual pilot could ask for.

neural_dream
12-05-2005, 06:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by alert_1:
Me109? Fox ex. powerloading fo Me109G2 (3043/1475) is the same as Fw190A8 (4230/2050)? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The less experienced virtual pilots (usually those with no or little online XP) find the FW190 bricklike. You'll learn the game better after a while and you'll appreciate the different qualities of all planes. The FW particularly is one of the really exceptional ones.

You'll find tips for all planes here:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/8311086963

WOLFMondo
12-05-2005, 06:33 AM
Brick pfft. Dora and A6 are probably the 2 most agile planes in this sim.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
fly a5/6 or dora
really not brick like </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

None of them are brick like! The A8 and F8 are bit slow for there time but some guys fly them and do well with them regardless.

Hristo_
12-05-2005, 06:48 AM
You won't like it for its dueling qualities, that's for sure. If you mess up, you'll even hate it and wish it was a 109 or any other plane for that matter http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

But you'll surely like it for its unmatched ability to give you kills and keep you alive. It has another intrinsic quality of frustrating people who confuse flight sim bravery with stupidity. You just have to learn to live with various namecalling on open channel by those whirling dervishes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

When the arena is full of Spitfires, there is no other plane I'd rather be in than a Fw 190.

WOLFMondo
12-05-2005, 07:00 AM
I agree there. Getting called a coward for disengaging is always funny. Especially from the same guys that tnb in P47's and P51's and get eaten up by 109's.

jurinko
12-05-2005, 07:01 AM
Fokkers sux, and in 4.02 they do more than before. I usually get a lot of kills using hit-and-run tactics against slower planes, but against planes with similar speed it needs surprise, numerical superiority and pilot superiority. Its gunsight view sux, it bleeds E like no one. If we omit the differences in aerodynamics, full tank La-5/5F should fly like almost-empty tank Fw 190 A-4, having the same hp, similar wing area and weight. Except the dive at 800kph and roll, Fw is beaten in all maneuvers, including the damage model of course.

Fw seemed to be close to the historical reports and books in V4.00 beta. I can imagine the whine from some betatesters to add him some drag.

neural_dream
12-05-2005, 07:06 AM
There's no Fokker in IL-2.

p1ngu666
12-05-2005, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Codex1971:

The FW is most unforgiving plane in the sim...if you treat it badly it will punish you big time...treat it well and you'll get the most satisfying kills any virtual pilot could ask for. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hm id disagree with u there, p51 is more unforgiving, and u can get satisfing kills in any aircraft, from a spitfire to a rear gunner seat, one of my favourites is yak9T, one shot one kill but its difficult...

190 is best in a team environment, just stay fast and with 4 cannon u just blast anything really, you can turn abit aswell

i agree with hristo, 190 series is best ingame series. granted if your on your own it isnt so good (ai is so iffy thatll include offline stuff)

HellToupee
12-05-2005, 07:31 AM
Most ppl who say 190 cant turn are the ones trying to turn fight spitfires, try to turn fight 109s in 51s and 47s same thing. 190 will win a turn fight vs a 47, and 51 tho its close i know the d9 can, the a6 is even more manoverable i find. U even have more stall warning than the spitty now.

LEBillfish
12-05-2005, 07:40 AM
<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">Settle down guys...geez....Alert 1, because that's how they supposedly flew in comparison as best as the sim can model.....Like a brick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif</span>

Not sure if this is a troll or not as you've been here long enough to know.....However, just in case you've simply never flown it before and have been devoting your forum time to other interests then learning about the planes and how they work.......I'll bite.

It really is nothing much more then sacrifices for gains. Greater stability means less ability to manuever. In kind make it so that it seems to float effortlessly, means the same and possibly speed......It's all about trade offs. If you want a fast roll you have to make the plane able to do that by reducing wing area, yet if you do you just made it so it doesn't grab that air as well.

The FW190 from what I can gather much like other narrow/thin/short winged planes was designed to be very manueverable....YET also fast. To gain that speed you lose the manueverability of say maybe a Zero and the like. Yet that doesn't mean it's not, it is simply manueverable "differently".

It's speed allows it to snap it's tail around, roll and reposition for climb and dive very well....Yet it doesn't bank as nice as say a Zero.....Yet banking in most cases once in a fight means nothing short of you're in trouble (be it trying to evade, or get on anothers 6)......Yet to get that "different" manueverability you need to keep its speed up, in kind not be going too fast. So there is a range of speed dependant upon the manuever that is ideal, YET, it in very slow or fast speeds seems to stall easier "so you can get that speed".

Volumes could be written as they're trying in other threads to do on how to fly the FW. My suggestion is simple. Practice.

Also however try and think in terms of roll and snapping the tail around vs. banking
.....IOW....
Instead of graceful curves as you might with a Zero or Spitfire, Imagine radical zig zagging as you roll hard and slightly pull up on the elevator. In kind you'll also soon learn that instead of a turning dogfight in a horizontal plane, that a fight where you dive in, fire, climb, snapping the tail around and "rolling" to aim toward your opponent again will help.

Given time and practice you'll eventually be able to work into turning dogfights where you'll discover how still using a bit of roll and tail snap you can also fight in the horizontal making graceful curves.

The advantage though is..........You can actually make them at a faster speed http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Sacrifices, yet in the end, a whole lot of gain.

Sturm_Williger
12-05-2005, 07:53 AM
What LEBillfish said. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BuzzU
12-05-2005, 08:18 AM
When you have that many guns, you don't have to be a swan.

alfa_fsb
12-05-2005, 08:33 AM
I fly the FW-190A5 in JABO campaign ... and it is a very tricky plane to fly.
Whith a full bomb load you need to have at least 200km/h to take off.
Landing is quite hard also.
It picks speed very fast ... and it turns quite bad ... so i learded to fly in straight lines ... line up the ground targets release the bombs ... and climb .
I tried to fly the 190 like the IL-2 ... or 109E/B ... and you can`t http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Maraz_5SA
12-05-2005, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Dude, obviously it's because that is how it was in real life comparison. Get with the programme http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

This aint no CFS game, this is forgotten battles. If you like the 109 flight model fly that, dont come here spamming about the 190's "brick like" qualities. Its a plane that takes patience to learn. Like it or lump it.

*edit* besides you cannot determine how a plane will fly just by lookin at power to weight ratio. You gotta look at a whole range of things. Example wing area, size of control surfaces (How big is ailerons) etc etc. Many things. You are being too narrow minded and making assumptions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the modeling we have in IL2 of FW.190 is nowhere like the real thing.

In real life, Fw.190 was a powerful weapon, here it is cannon fodder for the Spitfire.

Please look at this post in ORR:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m...191014183#3191014183 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/6771033183/r/3191014183#3191014183)

Some excerpts:

"The Fw 190 is considered an excellent low and medium altitude fighter. It is fast, well armed and very manoeuvrable. "

"The aircraft is pleasant to fly, all controls being extremely light and positive"

"The aircraft is very pleasant for aerobatics even at high speed."

"The view for search from the Fw 190 is the best that has yet been seen by this Unit"

"The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about half a ring of deflection) better than that from a Spitfire."

"The good all-round view from the aircraft, particularly over the nose, makes the Fw 190 very suitable for low flying and ground strafing"

"The flying characteristics are exceptional and a pilot new to the type feels at home within the first few minutes of flight. The controls are light and well-harmonised and all manoeuvres can be carried out without difficulty at all speeds. The fact that the Fw 190 does not require re-trimming under all conditions of flight is a particularly good point. "

"Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control. It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when viewed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made."

The source of all these statements are not Dr. Goebbels propaganda, but trials done by RAF... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So a bit of disconcert from the simmer who made this post is quite justified, and does not deserve your very rude reply.

Maraz

jurinko
12-05-2005, 08:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maraz_5SA:

"The Fw 190 is considered an excellent low and medium altitude fighter. It is fast, well armed and very manoeuvrable. "

"The aircraft is pleasant to fly, all controls being extremely light and positive"

"The aircraft is very pleasant for aerobatics even at high speed."

"The view for search from the Fw 190 is the best that has yet been seen by this Unit"

"The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about half a ring of deflection) better than that from a Spitfire."

"The good all-round view from the aircraft, particularly over the nose, makes the Fw 190 very suitable for low flying and ground strafing"

"The flying characteristics are exceptional and a pilot new to the type feels at home within the first few minutes of flight. The controls are light and well-harmonised and all manoeuvres can be carried out without difficulty at all speeds. The fact that the Fw 190 does not require re-trimming under all conditions of flight is a particularly good point. "

"Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control. It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when viewed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made."

Maraz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is fast and well armed, but thats all. It is unpleasant in maneuvers, loses energy quickly and its flight envelope is limited terribly compared to other planes. Newbie is lost in Fw 190, despite all historic accounts.
Only the above average pilot skill with excellent aerial gunnery skill makes an excellent plane of it online.

stathem
12-05-2005, 08:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maraz_5SA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Dude, obviously it's because that is how it was in real life comparison. Get with the programme http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

This aint no CFS game, this is forgotten battles. If you like the 109 flight model fly that, dont come here spamming about the 190's "brick like" qualities. Its a plane that takes patience to learn. Like it or lump it.

*edit* besides you cannot determine how a plane will fly just by lookin at power to weight ratio. You gotta look at a whole range of things. Example wing area, size of control surfaces (How big is ailerons) etc etc. Many things. You are being too narrow minded and making assumptions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the modeling we have in IL2 of FW.190 is nowhere like the real thing.

In real life, Fw.190 was a powerful weapon, here it is cannon fodder for the Spitfire.

Please look at this post in ORR:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m...191014183#3191014183 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/6771033183/r/3191014183#3191014183)

Some excerpts:

"The Fw 190 is considered an excellent low and medium altitude fighter. It is fast, well armed and very manoeuvrable. "

"The aircraft is pleasant to fly, all controls being extremely light and positive"

"The aircraft is very pleasant for aerobatics even at high speed."

"The view for search from the Fw 190 is the best that has yet been seen by this Unit"

"The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about half a ring of deflection) better than that from a Spitfire."

"The good all-round view from the aircraft, particularly over the nose, makes the Fw 190 very suitable for low flying and ground strafing"

"The flying characteristics are exceptional and a pilot new to the type feels at home within the first few minutes of flight. The controls are light and well-harmonised and all manoeuvres can be carried out without difficulty at all speeds. The fact that the Fw 190 does not require re-trimming under all conditions of flight is a particularly good point. "

"Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control. It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when viewed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made."

The source of all these statements are not Dr. Goebbels propaganda, but trials done by RAF... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So a bit of disconcert from the simmer who made this post is quite justified, and does not deserve your very rude reply.

Maraz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Everyone knows that RAF flight trials are just biased British propaganda and can't be trusted....It was a POS, be sure

fordfan25
12-05-2005, 09:16 AM
i do better in a FW190 A8 threw the dora line than almost any other plane. it handles just right for B&Z for me. smooth yet still able to jink and flip around. armed with the 108 wing cannons i get more kills vs death than in anything sept a la-7. it DM is strong,it does not have a over heat problem. just dont try and fly it like a spit,fly it like a FW http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. one thing i will have to admit to is when i do fly it its in open cockpit servers like afj and 334th. i just dont fly it regulerly enough to get used to that horrible forward veiw and gunsite veiw

WOLFMondo
12-05-2005, 09:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jurinko:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maraz_5SA:

"The Fw 190 is considered an excellent low and medium altitude fighter. It is fast, well armed and very manoeuvrable. "

"The aircraft is pleasant to fly, all controls being extremely light and positive"

"The aircraft is very pleasant for aerobatics even at high speed."

"The view for search from the Fw 190 is the best that has yet been seen by this Unit"

"The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about half a ring of deflection) better than that from a Spitfire."

"The good all-round view from the aircraft, particularly over the nose, makes the Fw 190 very suitable for low flying and ground strafing"

"The flying characteristics are exceptional and a pilot new to the type feels at home within the first few minutes of flight. The controls are light and well-harmonised and all manoeuvres can be carried out without difficulty at all speeds. The fact that the Fw 190 does not require re-trimming under all conditions of flight is a particularly good point. "

"Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control. It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when viewed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made."

Maraz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is fast and well armed, but thats all. It is unpleasant in maneuvers, loses energy quickly and its flight envelope is limited terribly compared to other planes. Newbie is lost in Fw 190, despite all historic accounts.
Only the above average pilot skill with excellent aerial gunnery skill makes an excellent plane of it online. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok.

The trial says its a low and medium altitude fighter. Thats true in this sim.

Pleasent to fly and light controls - It is in this sim. rudder and ailerons have tons of authority and are precise, elevators are good too. In fact nothing side slips as nice as a 190 in this sim. Nothing rolls like a 190 in this sim.

The view for search - well look out the window, apart from the front view over the gunsight its one of the best. Just check out the downward view compared with the Spitfire which allot of these tests compared it against.

Aerobatics? rolls, loops, tail slides, all easy in the 190.

Sight view, well I'll leave that alone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good for ground attack due to the sight again, lets leave that be however its not that bad generally.

Re trimming - fly at a cruise and it needs only elevator trim. Compare it to a spitfire, now that is a plane that could do with aileron trim.

Harmonised controls - Check your stick settings. Its 100% down to that.

Remember, allot of guys that flew this in tests previously had flown the cab style tiffie and Sptifires which both had questionable views, especially downward view, poor high speed roll etc.

The one thing we cannot do is 'feel' the aircraft. 190's pilots sat reclined so high G moves were possible without blacking out as bad as a conventional seat. Systems were automated, undercart was very wide, the engine had allot of power. One thing we can appreciate is the fantastic cockpit layout.

I think it does take practice to fly because of that in this sim but IRL it was different because the pilot could concentrate on flying and no twiddling dials and hitting buttons when he should be watching his wingman like allot of its contemparies.

Also, I swear allot of these plane issues are to do with personal stick settings and NOT the flight models.

AoA is also important in the 190. keep and eye on the artificial horizon which is in the default view and your laughinghttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

190's are great planes in this sim IMHO.

p1ngu666
12-05-2005, 09:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jurinko:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maraz_5SA:

"The Fw 190 is considered an excellent low and medium altitude fighter. It is fast, well armed and very manoeuvrable. "

"The aircraft is pleasant to fly, all controls being extremely light and positive"

"The aircraft is very pleasant for aerobatics even at high speed."

"The view for search from the Fw 190 is the best that has yet been seen by this Unit"

"The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about half a ring of deflection) better than that from a Spitfire."

"The good all-round view from the aircraft, particularly over the nose, makes the Fw 190 very suitable for low flying and ground strafing"

"The flying characteristics are exceptional and a pilot new to the type feels at home within the first few minutes of flight. The controls are light and well-harmonised and all manoeuvres can be carried out without difficulty at all speeds. The fact that the Fw 190 does not require re-trimming under all conditions of flight is a particularly good point. "

"Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control. It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when viewed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made."

Maraz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is fast and well armed, but thats all. It is unpleasant in maneuvers, loses energy quickly and its flight envelope is limited terribly compared to other planes. Newbie is lost in Fw 190, despite all historic accounts.
Only the above average pilot skill with excellent aerial gunnery skill makes an excellent plane of it online. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

its all true apart from the frontal view
its LOW SPEED flight envolope is more limited than most, but at mid to high speed its fine to very good.
u haveto cruise abit faster and keep speed abit higher than say a 109, but to say it requires experienced pilot is BS.

basics of 190 flying. fly flat out all the time, it doesnt overheat readily. do bnz attacks mostly, as soon as your losing in turn flip round and extend. use drag and bag and team tatics. keep speed 50kph faster than most other planes for manoverability, ie the "safety speed"

it was hard a few patches ago, but not now.

LEBillfish
12-05-2005, 09:53 AM
Think you all are missing the boat here.....Here just as I'd suppose real life it is VERY.......let me say that again....VERY, manueverable. It just doesn't nor is meant to manuever like say a Zero.

This was quoted from what I assume to be a pilots report......."Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control. It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when viewed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made."

Read that carefully as it is speaking of roll as I stated before. You have to change your mindset from "elevator to aileron and rudder"......Most people here very simply use very little roll and a ton of "climb" or elevator to make a turn. In the FW like many others you use aileron and rudder to roll the plane into a new line using "little" elevator.

Zoom & Boom does not have to be straight up and down...........It can be very side to side much like a rolling scissors. There the FW has the advantage as it rolls better then most.

Simply a "How you do things mindset change is all".......Yet learn both ways and...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Sintubin
12-05-2005, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maraz_5SA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Dude, obviously it's because that is how it was in real life comparison. Get with the programme http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

This aint no CFS game, this is forgotten battles. If you like the 109 flight model fly that, dont come here spamming about the 190's "brick like" qualities. Its a plane that takes patience to learn. Like it or lump it.

*edit* besides you cannot determine how a plane will fly just by lookin at power to weight ratio. You gotta look at a whole range of things. Example wing area, size of control surfaces (How big is ailerons) etc etc. Many things. You are being too narrow minded and making assumptions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually the modeling we have in IL2 of FW.190 is nowhere like the real thing.

In real life, Fw.190 was a powerful weapon, here it is cannon fodder for the Spitfire.

Please look at this post in ORR:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m...191014183#3191014183 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/6771033183/r/3191014183#3191014183)

Some excerpts:

"The Fw 190 is considered an excellent low and medium altitude fighter. It is fast, well armed and very manoeuvrable. "

"The aircraft is pleasant to fly, all controls being extremely light and positive"

"The aircraft is very pleasant for aerobatics even at high speed."

"The view for search from the Fw 190 is the best that has yet been seen by this Unit"

"The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about half a ring of deflection) better than that from a Spitfire."

"The good all-round view from the aircraft, particularly over the nose, makes the Fw 190 very suitable for low flying and ground strafing"

"The flying characteristics are exceptional and a pilot new to the type feels at home within the first few minutes of flight. The controls are light and well-harmonised and all manoeuvres can be carried out without difficulty at all speeds. The fact that the Fw 190 does not require re-trimming under all conditions of flight is a particularly good point. "

"Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control. It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when viewed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made."

The source of all these statements are not Dr. Goebbels propaganda, but trials done by RAF... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

So a bit of disconcert from the simmer who made this post is quite justified, and does not deserve your very rude reply.

Maraz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Agree 100%

Sintubin
12-05-2005, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jurinko:
Fokkers sux, and in 4.02 they do more than before. I usually get a lot of kills using hit-and-run tactics against slower planes, but against planes with similar speed it needs surprise, numerical superiority and pilot superiority. Its gunsight view sux, it bleeds E like no one. If we omit the differences in aerodynamics, full tank La-5/5F should fly like almost-empty tank Fw 190 A-4, having the same hp, similar wing area and weight. Except the dive at 800kph and roll, Fw is beaten in all maneuvers, including the damage model of course.

Fw seemed to be close to the historical reports and books in V4.00 beta. I can imagine the whine from some betatesters to add him some drag. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Agree 100%

Sintubin
12-05-2005, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jurinko:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maraz_5SA:

"The Fw 190 is considered an excellent low and medium altitude fighter. It is fast, well armed and very manoeuvrable. "

"The aircraft is pleasant to fly, all controls being extremely light and positive"

"The aircraft is very pleasant for aerobatics even at high speed."

"The view for search from the Fw 190 is the best that has yet been seen by this Unit"

"The sighting view, when sitting comfortably in the normal position, is about half a ring of deflection) better than that from a Spitfire."

"The good all-round view from the aircraft, particularly over the nose, makes the Fw 190 very suitable for low flying and ground strafing"

"The flying characteristics are exceptional and a pilot new to the type feels at home within the first few minutes of flight. The controls are light and well-harmonised and all manoeuvres can be carried out without difficulty at all speeds. The fact that the Fw 190 does not require re-trimming under all conditions of flight is a particularly good point. "

"Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control. It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when viewed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made."

Maraz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is fast and well armed, but thats all. It is unpleasant in maneuvers, loses energy quickly and its flight envelope is limited terribly compared to other planes. Newbie is lost in Fw 190, despite all historic accounts.
Only the above average pilot skill with excellent aerial gunnery skill makes an excellent plane of it online. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And ..... AGREE 200% http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Sintubin
12-05-2005, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Think you all are missing the boat here.....Here just as I'd suppose real life it is VERY.......let me say that again....VERY, manueverable. It just doesn't nor is meant to manuever like say a Zero.

This was quoted from what I assume to be a pilots report......."Perhaps one of the most outstanding qualities of this aircraft is the remarkable aileron control. It is possible to change from a turn in one direction to a turn in the opposite direction with incredible speed, and when viewed from another aircraft the change appears just as if a flick half-roll has been made."

Read that carefully as it is speaking of roll as I stated before. You have to change your mindset from "elevator to aileron and rudder"......Most people here very simply use very little roll and a ton of "climb" or elevator to make a turn. In the FW like many others you use aileron and rudder to roll the plane into a new line using "little" elevator.

Zoom & Boom does not have to be straight up and down...........It can be very side to side much like a rolling scissors. There the FW has the advantage as it rolls better then most.

Simply a "How you do things mindset change is all".......Yet learn both ways and...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You forgot to say that the HISTORICALY rol rate of the FW 190 CANT BE USED IN THIS SIM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Why BECAUSE AL PLANES ROLLS NEARLY THE SAME

Example

Flying at 4500 meters in a fw190 ...Sundenly you look back and see a spitfire coming at your six

You do a half loop diving to earth in midle of diving you turn left ..right using the airelions and rudder ..Wat do you see spit is following http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif THATS WAT IS WRONG!!!! ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The fw190 could go from left to right and back in a inch of a second irl http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Not in Il-2 BECAUSE AL PLANES CAN FOLLOW THIS MANOUVRE http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif


My two cents http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JuHa-
12-05-2005, 10:13 AM
Online nutshell: Zoom, boom, _hit_ and run with
a wingman.

In my opinion, Fw190A doesn't bleed much energy, unless, you pull the stick and try to manouver a bit. In straightline glides it holds the energy, but it doesn't allow much AoA before bleeding...
a lot. D-series bleed less and acclerate better too.

Comparing to a CFS3 (out of the box) Fw190, well IL2 one is much better.

p1ngu666
12-05-2005, 10:14 AM
hey, think i found the dream 190 you guys are after...

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//dream190.jpg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

faustnik
12-05-2005, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
u haveto cruise abit faster and keep speed abit higher than say a 109, but to say it requires experienced pilot is BS.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

190 is easy, Spitfire requirez mad skilz. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


...Yeah...

*********************************

Some things make using the Fw190 in sharp vertical maneuvers difficult in PF. Spitfires and other a/c can climb at full power at super low speeds with little concern for engine torque. Spits can also aim like a turret in a low speed vertical hover. Because of this, zoom and hammerhead maneuvers are almost unusable online.

This was the traditional tactic of the Fw190 during the time they dominated the Spitfires over the Channel. Too bad it doesn't work well in PF.

LEBillfish
12-05-2005, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sintubin:
You forgot to say that the HISTORICALY rol rate of the FW 190 CANT BE USED IN THIS SIM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Why BECAUSE AL PLANES ROLLS NEARLY THE SAME </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Where's some IL2 numbers then, because I know that to be untrue otherwise the plane and many others would be virtually worthless.

Now elevator on it IS.....But I've yet to see a Spit match it's roll.....Hunt up one of the many little charts done up around here and post away.....Show me.

p1ngu666
12-05-2005, 10:33 AM
think many ppl just roll and bank, ofcourse they gain in the roll, but other aircraft gains in turn, i think the trick is to keep rolling and changing direction, im not good at that tho..

faus, no plane is very stable for me at low speeds, to say aim i couldnt, be more of a lucky spray.

irl spits probably didnt want to hang on there props at low speed, easy target to hit. ive read of mk12 and 14 spits could climb up in a head on to enguage the german fighters that where above..

vs spits you shouldnt go up, as the spits are better at that..

but to fly 190 u just haveto accept that u cant outturn stuff at low speed, but at medium speeds u can turn well enuff to blast ppl. you just extend if in trouble, flying in a moreorless straight line requires more skill than break turns in a spit, obivously http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

for hammerheads, most pilots have learnt not to follow much faster/better climbing planes, climb a certain amount and keep speed at "X", X being speed where u can dodge if needed

incidently, aiming a turret gun is actully pretty hard

HayateAce
12-05-2005, 10:35 AM
Kewl, the blooes are starting to sob into their Frostee Flakes again. This arcade game must be taking its first few steps back towards realism.

Keep the trend up Oleg!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Stll we have the Fb~109, which the FM is modeled after this:



http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com/controlline/Brodak/images/CLP-6.gif

faustnik
12-05-2005, 10:43 AM
In regards to the PF Fw190 model I have only a couple questions.

- The maneuverability difference between the A4 and the later models seems disproportionate to Fw190 weight creep.

- I have looked extensively for evidence of the Fw190A4 being limited to 2400rpm and have found none. All evidence idicates that the full 1.42ata@2700rpm 3-minute rating was used.

- The historical high speed roll rate advantage of the Fw190 does not seem present in the sim.

- <span class="ev_code_GREY">Forward view.</span> (although I understand the reasoning for the in-sim view)

MLudner
12-05-2005, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
There's no Fokker in IL-2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Absolutely right. Fokker is a Dutch company, the Germans flew their planes in WWI, but not in WWII.

Kuna15
12-05-2005, 10:57 AM
VVS pilots liked to call FW-190 "Fokker".

@ Experienced/inexperienced thing?
You have to be experienced whatever you fly otherwise you are just flying target on serious, realistic as possible servers.

Whether that being Spitfire, FW-190, LA-5FN or Bf-109G. There is no difference, other than fight style.

anarchy52
12-05-2005, 11:04 AM
Focke got nerfed in 4.02 with "AoA having more effect on stall".
The strength of the RL focke was arnament, level speed, dive, armour, zoom climb (against more draggy low wingloaded planes with lower power/weight) and roll. Only thing it didn't do well were low speed turns due to high wingloading. In game Focke only has 2 decent characteristics : the arnament and level speed on low-medium alt. In 4.01 focke was closest to FM one would expect after reading the books/reports.

In 4.02 it shakes and stalls easy even at high speed gentle turns, accelerates poorly in shallow dives, and it can even be outturned by P-47s at low speed.
Roll rate was never an advantage of FW in the game as all aircraft roll good anough to follow (except zero). Instantaneous turn was fockes strong point, now it's gone.

FW-190 in FB 4.02 definitely doesn't match it's real life counterpart's qualities.

I can't imagine IRL anyone praising an aircraft with worse manuverability then P-47. Either "our" focke in game is nerfed or the RL aircrafts they were comparing focke with were less capable then represented in the game. it's all about relative performance.

P.S. 4.0 beta was excellent, but way too hard for average Johhny Joystick. Only version where roll rate mattered.

faustnik
12-05-2005, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:

vs spits you shouldnt go up, as the spits are better at that..
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the sim, but, historically steep vertical maneuvers were the main tactic used by Fw190s.

In PF 4.02, the Spit can climb at super low speed at full power without torque roll-over. This is what ruins the 190's ability to use historical steep vertical tactics, not the Fw190 FM.

MLudner
12-05-2005, 11:32 AM
It has to do with how you fly it. The Focke-Wulf is a good fighter, which flown well can cope with anything. In the QMB Mission those stills I posted in "P-51 Won The War" were from I shook that Ace P-51D20-NA off of my tail 3 times, and he was faster. That was why the first two times I was unable to get at him after I shook him. I had to take the risk of luring him in close .... very close, as you can see from one of them, in order to get at him. Use the excellent roll rate and your wits.

p1ngu666
12-05-2005, 11:32 AM
that isnt confined to just the spitfire tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

faustnik
12-05-2005, 11:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
that isnt confined to just the spitfire tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are talking about low-speed high power super climb, no, it is there with a lot of lightweight planes. The Spit and 109 are two of the strongest with this ability.

So, this makes things rough for the Fw190, P-47 and P-51. It makes it harder to take advantage of the heavy a/c's advantages and easier for the Spit/109/light-a/c pilots to use their advantages.

Pirschjaeger
12-05-2005, 11:50 AM
I think we debate and rely too much on the various a/c specs and not enough of pilot tactics. The pilot makes more of a difference than the physics of the plane.

Fritz

Von_Rat
12-05-2005, 11:52 AM
a6 and doras seem ok, but in comparision to them a8 a9 do seem bricklike.

p1ngu666
12-05-2005, 11:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
that isnt confined to just the spitfire tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you are talking about low-speed high power super climb, no, it is there with a lot of lightweight planes. The Spit and 109 are two of the strongest with this ability.

So, this makes things rough for the Fw190, P-47 and P-51. It makes it harder to take advantage of the heavy a/c's advantages and easier for the Spit/109/light-a/c pilots to use their advantages. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ya, but the advantage of the heavier plane is in zoom climb, not sustained climb.

plane with better thrust to weight will be better in helicopter climbs

controlability is a unknow, weight may help against torque, but any momentum bulit up will be worse

faustnik
12-05-2005, 12:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:

ya, but the advantage of the heavier plane is in zoom climb, not sustained climb.

plane with better thrust to weight will be better in helicopter climbs

controlability is a unknow, weight may help against torque, but any momentum bulit up will be worse </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

High power climbs at low speeds were difficult and required hard rudder inout to maintain. In 4.02, light a/c can climb full power with no rudder and still have enough control to aim. Again, this makes the historical dive and zoom climb tactics of the Fw190, P-47, P-51 and F4U problematic in the sim.

faustnik
12-05-2005, 12:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I think we debate and rely too much on the various a/c specs and not enough of pilot tactics. The pilot makes more of a difference than the physics of the plane.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the Fw190 is certainly deadly in the sim when flown with the right team tactics.

OldMan___
12-05-2005, 12:36 PM
The only thing wrong with FW190 is the too low roll rate at high speed (where it rolls worse than 51 in game), and the fuel leak.

People that say that FW is uselles really don 't know what they are talking about. Granted I 've been not playing much in more than a month due to problems with my X45, But I used not to fear any plane while in ANY FW190, even in the A4 (my favorite one, it bleeds less E so it usually keeps itself faster during fight than a heavier one)


Just correct high speed roll and FW would become even more dominant.

Something present in RL and not in game is the advantage that FW pilots had in high G turns due to its seat position (advantage shared by p51 pilots using their G-suits). I just Hope BOB models different G limit for blackouts on these planes.

WOLFMondo
12-05-2005, 12:45 PM
If you want an accurate 190 pull some evidence out the bag to prove its wrong.

Other than that stop coming out with utter rubbish like this:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sintubin:

Why BECAUSE AL PLANES ROLLS NEARLY THE SAME
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kuna15
12-05-2005, 12:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a198/FritzFranzen/A4Wolfsig.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
Wolves do better when grouped http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Pirschjaeger
12-05-2005, 01:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
I think we debate and rely too much on the various a/c specs and not enough of pilot tactics. The pilot makes more of a difference than the physics of the plane.

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the Fw190 is certainly deadly in the sim when flown with the right team tactics. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've often thought about this but the fact is, not enough people fly them.

Fritz

anarchy52
12-05-2005, 01:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
The pilot makes more of a difference than the physics of the plane.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It certainly does not in the game.

danjama
12-05-2005, 01:32 PM
A fantastic place to fly the 190 is Warclouds. So many Spitfires unaware in there it is incredible fun. They think they have all the time in the world to be turning with 109's, then you come in fast as their pullin up, and you get that perrrrrr....say it again, peerrrrrrfect deflection shot! WHAM! One spit down. All that is left to flick half roll and get the hell out of the way. Fly for a bit get some altitude. Catch another spitfire beginning to climb, rush in on him and....

You get the point. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

HayateAce
12-05-2005, 04:36 PM
Jah, sounds terribly skilless and cowardly.

WOLFMondo
12-05-2005, 04:47 PM
Sounds like someone who gets shot down by them often while turning and burning with 109's on the deck? :P

Pirschjaeger
12-05-2005, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
The pilot makes more of a difference than the physics of the plane.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It certainly does not in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It does so. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fritz

chaikanut
12-05-2005, 06:39 PM
The Fw really is a brick that flies great at high speed only (470km/h +). If you stay fast, high and do very slow turns and hit and run nothing can kill you. This is very tedious when there is no teamwork though. When you fly with a good wingman you can dogfight with barrel rolls, you will lose all your energy fast but the Fw wingman has deadly weapons.

danjama
12-05-2005, 07:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HayateAce:
Jah, sounds terribly skilless and cowardly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh on the contrary sir! It takes more than the normal collection of skills to perform in this rare bird! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BfHeFwMe
12-05-2005, 07:32 PM
Usually park high up over the fight, watch for the run90 slinking back and forth, time it right when he's wheeling back about. About time he blows a little steam through the furball, they always deflect a little, WHAM, another bites the dust.

Run90's, they taste Grrrrreat...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Badsight.
12-05-2005, 10:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Oh on the contrary sir! It takes more than the normal collection of skills to perform in this rare bird! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>you are replying to a guy who couldnt fight his way out of a paper bag danjama . . . . .

Fish6891
12-05-2005, 11:35 PM
Why is it that I'm the only one who knows everything? All of you are at least somewhat wrong.

Genie-
12-06-2005, 12:45 AM
One interesting thing, every time when somebody mentions that FW190 FM is porked there goes tons of ppl saying how it is very important to fly 190 in a "certain way". (and 80% of those ppl flies allied planes)

and that way is very high, very fast and don't turn too much.

Now, I have a question. What f*peep* plane shouldn't be flown like that?

The point is. If ANYBODY sits on your six and you are flying FW190 you are dead. Period.

Take ANY other plane, and you got some chance to do something. But in FW190 there is no way out. All that can save you is your teammate or pure luck.

And don€t give me that BS about "there is a certain way how to fly FW190", that €œway€ is a way you fly in a perfect conditions :

high, fast, one shot, one kill. + having a wingman

In non sterile environment FW190 is pure sh*peep*.
That makes FW190 a poor fighter (in this "sim") because you need all those factors to make a successful run.

Von_Rat
12-06-2005, 01:20 AM
______________________________________________
The point is. If ANYBODY sits on your six and you are flying FW190 you are dead. Period.

Take ANY other plane, and you got some chance to do something. But in FW190 there is no way out. All that can save you is your teammate or pure luck.
_______________________________________________



huh,,,, while i do admit there might be some problems with fw, this is just plain wrong.


as long as your not slow on the deck you can easily get somone off your six with a fw.

get on my six, or ralls, or hienzbar, or fishes, we'll show you.

btw i usually fly well under 3k, fw190 d9 45 is awesome at low level dogfighting. just stay very fast, and use vector rolls to change direction. if you lose energy extend a little to get speed back, it does this very fast, and reingauge.

WOLFMondo
12-06-2005, 01:23 AM
Sounds like the bitter ranting of someone who's been burnt trying to go solo in a Focke.:P

Poor fighter? Real fighter pilots didn't go out by themselves lone wolfing it did they. They went out in packs. FW190's went out in packs. Right till the end of the war. Occasionally you would get a lone pilot but those guys had been flying since Spain and could run rings around allied fighter pilots.

You don't fly the FW very high, it doesn't do very high, its a low and medium altitude fighter and if flown fast you have the best chance in any fighter because you can get away from most allied fighters. The idea is not to let someone sit on your 6 because you use your speed advantage to get you away and drag and bag the slower plane.

I fly blue probably 90% of the time right now, the other 10% is the Mustang MkIII and P47 and I don't think there is much wrong with the 190, any of them. very high speed roll there is a problem by its till light years better than anything else.

According to some server stats the guys with the highest K/D ratios', were talking 30 to 40 here, fly the 190's.

Pirschjaeger
12-06-2005, 01:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genie-:
And don€t give me that BS about "there is a certain way how to fly FW190", that €œway€ is a way you fly in a perfect conditions :

high, fast, one shot, one kill. + having a wingman
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here Genie, check this out. Not exactly the conditions you are mentioning. You'll note that I don't need to have great alt or speed. I'm often under 300 and rarely over 400. I'll also mention I was using an old 3D Gold with a bad hatswitch. This was also my first time flying after more than a year. The A4 CAN tnb tactically.

http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=061205/1133843008/A4vs4P-39.rar

Fritz

Hristo_
12-06-2005, 02:13 AM
Fw 190 is the best plane to tip the balance of afight in many vs many engagements. Sheer number of cannons in the air is what matters. Speed and ruggedness are also a factor. And the best thing is it is extremely hard to counter an aggressive group of Fw 190s.

Several times I witnessed a group of Fw 190s not afraid to mix it up with Spits and P-51s on the deck and winning. The result was dead Spits and P-51s running away, while other P-51s were circling above, afraid to engage. How cowardly is that ?

This is by far the best use of Fw 190. When in numbers and coordinated, there is no other plane who can press the fight as effectively and persistantly, knock down a bomber stream or suppress a base (read, vulch). That's why it is the best plane in this sim.

It lacks in dueling qualities, you say ? Well, who cares http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Xiolablu3
12-06-2005, 02:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
From when i was a kid the FW190 was my fave Axis plane (just cos it looked good and tough). But later I discovered it simply didn`t fly the way i wanted itto (turning in circles). I discovered I had to have a LOT of discipline: Fly straight, Boom and Zoom, DON`T get into a turn fight.

So I stopped liking the 190.

Did I whine about it? No, I checked up the basic WWII flying books and discovered that its performance compared to other aircraft was similar. It performs good, but you have to fly it differently to get the best out of it _ Some can do this really well.

I can`t. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


AMen to that.

Pirschjaeger
12-06-2005, 02:33 AM
I've always flown the 190 alone. It seems not too many will give it a chance. Everytime I've flown with teams everyone else always grabbed a 109. It's a deadly plane on its own and I imagine a well disiplined group of 190's would clean house every time.

Good to see you're back Hristo. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fritz

ploughman
12-06-2005, 02:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Good to see you're back Hristo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah, great. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Lucius_Esox
12-06-2005, 03:11 AM
It's great hearing people whine about how bad the 190 is in this sim.. Cannon fodder!!!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hristo_
12-06-2005, 03:31 AM
Thanks Pirsch and Ploughman especially http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif.

I'm just lurking a little. Still involved in GT Legends, but I may be back soon (just not on WarClouds, certain problems will keep me away http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

Anyway, back to the subject:

Fw 190 is new best !

Pirschjaeger
12-06-2005, 04:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Fw 190 is new best ! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You said it. I just tried the Fw190A5. I hadn't flown that one for about two years. I guess there's been many changes since then. At one point the A4 was a better plane. The A5 rocks. It can turn much better than the A4 now.

What is the hardest Ai to beat? Some Spit version? The p-392 are a breze, even at treetop level.

BTW, is there a difference betwenn the A5 and A6?

Fritz

alert_1
12-06-2005, 04:17 AM
Geeez dudes...I was ONLY refering to slow acceleration and climb rate of Fw190 COMPARING it to Me109 and I said NO word about how good/bad turnrr Fw190 should be or not. This was NOT attepmt to troll but I hoped for some explanation (diffrent wingprofile might be?) . I'm not aviatic expert but I know what the wingloading means...
OK, next time I'll be more carefull with "how to put a question and dont stirr hornet nest"
And BTW I was just curious, Fw190 is not my preffered plane (I admit not having enough skill to be succesful in it but not noob either)

nakamura_kenji
12-06-2005, 04:24 AM
well radial enegine aircraft nose no exact much areodynamic compare to inline. always wonder why almost never try streamline radial nose so much smooth shape than flat round shape normal have.

HellToupee
12-06-2005, 04:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
u haveto cruise abit faster and keep speed abit higher than say a 109, but to say it requires experienced pilot is BS.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

190 is easy, Spitfire requirez mad skilz. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


...Yeah...

*********************************

Some things make using the Fw190 in sharp vertical maneuvers difficult in PF. Spitfires and other a/c can climb at full power at super low speeds with little concern for engine torque. Spits can also aim like a turret in a low speed vertical hover. Because of this, zoom and hammerhead maneuvers are almost unusable online.

This was the traditional tactic of the Fw190 during the time they dominated the Spitfires over the Channel. Too bad it doesn't work well in PF. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

um but thats bs spitfire in a low speed zoom is impossible to aim as you cannot use rudder unless u want ur plane to flop around like a fish.

Most 190s die in zooms because they do it at utterly stupid times, unless you do so at very high speed or with a signficant speed advantage your a dead man in any plane, zoom renders u a floating slow moving target anyone can hit at considerable range.

Codex1971
12-06-2005, 05:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nakamura_kenji:
well radial enegine aircraft nose no exact much areodynamic compare to inline. always wonder why almost never try streamline radial nose so much smooth shape than flat round shape normal have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

cooling is reason why...stream lining almost always reduces air flow to cool the engine.

nakamura_kenji
12-06-2005, 05:08 AM
raiden use cooling fan suck air through collowing. also possible make water cool radial but rare guess

ploughman
12-06-2005, 05:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Fw 190 is new best ! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You said it. I just tried the Fw190A5. I hadn't flown that one for about two years. I guess there's been many changes since then. At one point the A4 was a better plane. The A5 rocks. It can turn much better than the A4 now.

What is the hardest Ai to beat? Some Spit version? The p-392 are a breze, even at treetop level.

BTW, is there a difference betwenn the A5 and A6?

Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I find the Japanese NKJM2 (not quite the right designation but I hope you know what I mean) to be the most difficult AI to beat. It can do lots of things very well and is quite pretty too in a Homer Simpson sort of way. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Oh, and Pirsch, your sig is now the scariest on the forum. It's official.

Genie-
12-06-2005, 05:30 AM
as long as your not slow on the deck you can easily get somone off your six with a fw.

sure. you can hit the deck (if mustang, or spit or p47 or p38 or LaXX, or.. is not on your 6), and if you escape and then try to reangage, you must be VERY lucky not to have another foe on your 6 in the meantime.

Sounds like the bitter ranting of someone who's been burnt trying to go solo in a Focke.:P

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif solo? heh.. I'm not kamikaze...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

They went out in packs. FW190's went out in packs.
as I said. You can win in only perfect conditions.

http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=061205/1133843008/A4vs4P-39.rar

is this vs AI? if it is, pls don't waste my time.

Speed and ruggedness are also a factor.

they are non existant in Olegs (4.02) world Hristo.
Do not mix apples (game) with bananas (RL). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Pirschjaeger
12-06-2005, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genie-:
is this vs AI? if it is, pls don't waste my time.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not about beating ai, it was about being able to do what you claim to be impossible.

Just one question, how often and how long have you been trying to fly a 190?

FRitz

Pirschjaeger
12-06-2005, 05:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
Oh, and Pirsch, your sig is now the scariest on the forum. It's official. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Coming from you, keeper of hell's penguins, that's a compliment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fritz

WOLFMondo
12-06-2005, 06:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genie-:
as long as your not slow on the deck you can easily get somone off your six with a fw.

sure. you can hit the deck (if mustang, or spit or p47 or p38 or LaXX, or.. is not on your 6), and if you escape and then try to reangage, you must be VERY lucky not to have another foe on your 6 in the meantime.

Sounds like the bitter ranting of someone who's been burnt trying to go solo in a Focke.:P

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif solo? heh.. I'm not kamikaze...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

They went out in packs. FW190's went out in packs.
as I said. You can win in only perfect conditions.

http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=061205/1133843008/A4vs4P-39.rar

is this vs AI? if it is, pls don't waste my time.

Speed and ruggedness are also a factor.

they are non existant in Olegs (4.02) world Hristo.
Do not mix apples (game) with bananas (RL). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You really need to learn to fly them. In every year plane set at low and medium altitude the FW190 from that year is the fastest aircraft apart from 2 planes. The Mustang MkIII (which is faster no argument) and the La7 is 1kph faster than the Dora. Get a wing man in a FW and I'd take that over any other 2 plane combination.

Fighting is packs isn't perfect conditions, its idea conditions. All planes should be flow in packs of at least 2, just with the 190 its more dangerous than any other combination i.e. speed and firepower.

Speed and ruggedness does exist in Olegs world, I suspect some people have yet to realise thishttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

I give up, some people whine for something they already have yet don't realise it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

If you want a solo plane go fly an La7, 109 or Spitfire. Better yet, install BF1942 cause it sounds like you want a game, not a simualator.

nakamura_kenji
12-06-2005, 06:39 AM
here what mean much more stream line shape compare fw-190/p-47

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/J2M-23s.jpg

fan suck air behind prop
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/J2M-40s.jpg

p1ngu666
12-06-2005, 06:54 AM
if u get something on your 6 in a 190 u just run, or if its as fast as u it turns about the same so u can df.

la7 outdoes everything, its a joke tbh

sy-subrc
12-06-2005, 07:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fish6891:
Why is it that I'm the only one who knows everything? All of you are at least somewhat wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif share your wisdom with us, who are unworthy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

In fact, a couple of years ago, I also thought, a FW is worse in combat than a Boeing 747 - until I managed my first highspeed bnz kill - It's really fun to dive down with 800+ km/h and
eat some spits...

If you have a good SA, most (slow) planes are toast (except those spits with dutch markings http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif).

Most of the time I got downed by a spit (and this happens quite often I must admit), it was my own fault - lacking SA, going too slow. They seldom outmaneuver me because I don't maneuver with them.

mynameisroland
12-06-2005, 07:06 AM
The Fw 190 had cooling fan too behind spinner, it also had its exhausts arranged in a more streamlined manner rather than having them dotted around the place

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/10/detail_fw190a8_07.htm

Here is ducted fan , look down the page to see the re reouting of the exhausts

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2004/10/detail_fw190a8_04.htm

Here you can see the exhausts and how they exit the fuselage skin.

Bearcat99
12-06-2005, 07:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BuzzU:
When you have that many guns, you don't have to be a swan. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

HE IS ALIVE!!!

nakamura_kenji
12-06-2005, 07:15 AM
i know fw-190 have fan but still much wide nose because engine close prop. j2m3 prop and engine quite bit distance between allow nose become more narrow. main question was why other radial plane no try similar as areodynamic shape = more speed. good example p-47 where little streamline at all at front even prop no have nose cone like other prop do.

i probab wrong just much curios that all ^_^

mynameisroland
12-06-2005, 07:23 AM
Here is my favourite cowling ever for a WW2 fighter Nakamura

http://www.luftarchiv.de/flugzeugbau/v1.jpg

I think its beautiful, wish Fw 190 had gone in to mass production with this nose config.

Yes your right about the Fw 190 having a short distance between engine and Propellor. I think that in this aircraft the centre of gravity was very inportant and any additional lengthening was always countered by having to extend the aircraft somewhere else. I think it suits its short stubby nose however http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

nakamura_kenji
12-06-2005, 07:29 AM
that nice compare normal one ^_^

Genie-
12-06-2005, 07:43 AM
Just one question, how often and how long have you been trying to fly a 190?

every time I have a chance (few last on line wars). it has big cannons. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do not worry for my FW flying skills or bf109 skills. What I want to say is that FW is a bad plane in IL2. It has cannons and that is it. It has NO advantage regarding "competitive" (in RL) allied planes. Every La or Spit or Mustang or P47 or P38 eats FW for dinner. Especially if you fly those planes high, fast and you don't turn. Heh, imagine allied on line pilots sticking to that! We (blue) would not have a chance.

In short if you have 2 planes in the same situation with same skill pilot and one of those planes is fw190. fw looses. That is by mine definition a bad plane.

You really need to learn to fly them.

learn? you mean high, fast and turn like a truck? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

all you need to learn is to shoot when enemy plane is below your nose and you don€t see him and pray that he doesn€t turn right away on you

If you want a solo plane go fly an La7, 109 or Spitfire. Better yet, install BF1942 cause it sounds like you want a game, not a simualator.

well first of all I play this €œsimulator€ from day one, and I play it because there is no better one. That is true. Now close your eyes.. imagine LaXX series hunting in packs...and with wingman.. and high and fast and ... Now.. how much chance blue pilots would have to survive? We can only be grateful that flying those €œplanes€ is so easy that you don€t need to think about any tactics.

Yank all the way!

Pirschjaeger
12-06-2005, 08:01 AM
When I started flying online I always flew 109s, nothing else. Then someone complained that no one in our squadron flew 190s. Everyone agreed we should but I was the only one who did. My first impression was the 190 was impossible to fly, but I kept at it. Eventually I was kicking everyone a$$, but I got killed many times before I reached that level.

The trick to turn fighting with the 190 is to always turn relatively vertical and never follow the same path. Always choose a new direction, preferably relative to your enemies'.

The 190 is tough to learn and not easy to fly, especially compared to the 109's. After some time when my squadron saw I was getting many kills and landing, there was one of our teammates that decided to make the switch. I'll never know why, but he choose the A8. This, IMHO, is the worst of the 190's and the hardest to fly. Eventually he got good at it but he was into bnz, I never was.

Genie, I can't understand why you are having such bad luck with the 190 when regular flyers often swear by it. I can still fly the 109 better than the 190 but my first choice is the 190. I love the challenge. When I used to fly online my enemy was Spits, Migs, Ponies, Jugs, and more. I also flew solo and never minded turning.

I'd like to fly with you sometime online. I wanna see what you are doing with the 190. Would you mind making a track so I can see?

Fritz

Von_Rat
12-06-2005, 08:02 AM
quote,,,,sure. you can hit the deck (if mustang, or spit or p47 or p38 or LaXX, or.. is not on your 6), and if you escape and then try to reangage, you must be VERY lucky not to have another foe on your 6 in the meantime.
__________________________________________________ __________________________


you can outrun p51 spit p47 or p38. you can also barrel roll or rolling scissor them to clear em of your six, if you don't wanna dive away.

with a la7 you bnz them from well above, if you miss you climb till they gasp, they suc hi up.



__________________________________________________ _____________________________
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Genie-:
Just one question, how often and how long have you been trying to fly a 190?

every time I have a chance (few last on line wars). it has big cannons. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do not worry for my FW flying skills or bf109 skills. What I want to say is that FW is a bad plane in IL2. It has cannons and that is it. It has NO advantage regarding "competitive" (in RL) allied planes. Every La or Spit or Mustang or P47 or P38 eats FW for dinner. Especially if you fly those planes high, fast and you don't turn. Heh, imagine allied on line pilots sticking to that! We (blue) would not have a chance.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________

one of the most popular servers is warclouds,, fws have the best kill death ratios of any type.



__________________________________________________ ___________________________

quote,,,,In short if you have 2 planes in the same situation with same skill pilot and one of those planes is fw190. fw looses. That is by mine definition a bad plane.

You really need to learn to fly them.

learn? you mean high, fast and turn like a truck? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

all you need to learn is to shoot when enemy plane is below your nose and you don€t see him and pray that he doesn€t turn right away on you
__________________________________________________ _____________________________

i rarely fly hi and i turn alot, i just do it in such a way as to stay fast. ive manAged a kill streak of 24 in a row once without dying, with rarely getting hit at all actually.

learning deflection shooting is a must, ive deflection shot spits from so far away i know they shouted WTF.

mynameisroland
12-06-2005, 08:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genie-:
Just one question, how often and how long have you been trying to fly a 190?

every time I have a chance (few last on line wars). it has big cannons. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Do not worry for my FW flying skills or bf109 skills. What I want to say is that FW is a bad plane in IL2. It has cannons and that is it. It has NO advantage regarding "competitive" (in RL) allied planes. Every La or Spit or Mustang or P47 or P38 eats FW for dinner. Especially if you fly those planes high, fast and you don't turn. Heh, imagine allied on line pilots sticking to that! We (blue) would not have a chance.

In short if you have 2 planes in the same situation with same skill pilot and one of those planes is fw190. fw looses. That is by mine definition a bad plane.

You really need to learn to fly them.

learn? you mean high, fast and turn like a truck? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

all you need to learn is to shoot when enemy plane is below your nose and you don€t see him and pray that he doesn€t turn right away on you

If you want a solo plane go fly an La7, 109 or Spitfire. Better yet, install BF1942 cause it sounds like you want a game, not a simualator.

well first of all I play this €œsimulator€ from day one, and I play it because there is no better one. That is true. Now close your eyes.. imagine LaXX series hunting in packs...and with wingman.. and high and fast and ... Now.. how much chance blue pilots would have to survive? We can only be grateful that flying those €œplanes€ is so easy that you don€t need to think about any tactics.

Yank all the way! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you want to fight one on one take a Spitfire if you want to fight in an large engagement where planes never meet each other co altitude co Speed the Fw 190 is king. Just dive in and take your pick kill you victim then zoom out again.

The Fw 190 is a Butcher bird it is not a plane for niceties.

arjisme
12-06-2005, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
learning deflection shooting is a must, ive deflection shot spits from so far away i know they shouted WTF. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So I'm curious: what convergence settings do folks use when flying the FW?

WOLFMondo
12-06-2005, 09:20 AM
200m for me.

I know some like 500m to 1000m for the Antons due to the spread of fire.

Pirschjaeger
12-06-2005, 09:22 AM
I'm trying to get used to 300 now. I used to use longer distances but I want to improve my fly more than my shooting. Now I don't shoot unless it's up close and personal, or at least I'm trying. Old habits die hard.

Genie, if you wanna see a decent show of BnZ and E saving, check out Jurinkos track in the second post. Don't worry, no AI http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3401071383/p/2

The Spits never had a chance. They stayed low and did nothing regarding teamwork. Easy pickins for a good pilot.

Fritz

faustnik
12-06-2005, 09:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:

um but thats bs spitfire in a low speed zoom is impossible to aim as you cannot use rudder unless u want ur plane to flop around like a fish.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not bs, It's very easy to pull that superclimb off. Need track?

faustnik
12-06-2005, 09:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genie-:

What I want to say is that FW is a bad plane in IL2. It has cannons and that is it. It has <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">NO advantage</span> regarding "competitive" (in RL) allied planes. Every La or Spit or Mustang or P47 or P38 eats FW for dinner. Especially if you fly those planes high, fast and you don't turn. Heh, imagine allied on line pilots sticking to that! We (blue) would not have a chance.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Fw190 has many advantages over the competition in PF, including speed, roll rate and firepower. I think you are looking only at turn rate in your evaluation and missing the total picture.

The Fw190 had higher wing-loading that many RAF or Soviets a/c, that's a simple fact. It was not designed for horizontal turning. Don't you want the PF model to reflect the historical design?

p1ngu666
12-06-2005, 10:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:

um but thats bs spitfire in a low speed zoom is impossible to aim as you cannot use rudder unless u want ur plane to flop around like a fish.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not bs, It's very easy to pull that superclimb off. Need track? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep id like a track, the IX with cw if possible, below 300kph thats wobblin and slidin all by itself..

faustnik
12-06-2005, 10:09 AM
SuperClimb (http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_files/SpitV_super_climb.zip)

I don't have one of the Spit IX made, here's the Mk. V.

EDIT: In posting this I'm not trying to pick on the Spitfire, the same track could have been made with a Bf109. This is a question on the historical strengths of heavy vs. light a/c and the heavy a/c's ability to exploit the zoom climb.

rnzoli
12-06-2005, 10:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genie-:
In short if you have 2 planes in the same situation with same skill pilot and one of those planes is fw190. fw looses. That is by mine definition a bad plane. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You've got to be joking. I have flown against FW-190 in one-to-one a couple of times and instead of winning all time time, I actually learnt what makes them win or loose. All said before. One more additional thing is that flying in relatively straight lines is also good for my situational awareness, at least in comparison with a dizzying turn-fight furball on tree-top level.

faustnik
12-06-2005, 10:15 AM
If anyone would like to ask more technical questions about the Fw190, or if you would like some tips with getting the most out of it in the sim, please drop by the Fw190 Consortium Forum (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=8). You have to register at CWOS but, we have some people who really know there stuff in the Fw190 forum. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

OldMan___
12-06-2005, 10:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by nakamura_kenji:
well radial enegine aircraft nose no exact much areodynamic compare to inline. always wonder why almost never try streamline radial nose so much smooth shape than flat round shape normal have. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is because the main effect of a flat face on aerodinamics is to make the air flow become turbulent (the oposite of laminar flow). That increases drag. But The air flow is already turbulent after it passes by a propeller. So the flat face doesn't make so much difference. That is also why small protuberances in the nose don 't have a huge effect on final drag.

Von_Rat
12-06-2005, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ar****e:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
learning deflection shooting is a must, ive deflection shot spits from so far away i know they shouted WTF. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So I'm curious: what convergence settings do folks use when flying the FW? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


i use 1000m in dora,, convergence isnt really important with wing root cannons, and it seems to raise the aimpoint so i not always shooting under my nose.

anarchy52
12-06-2005, 12:26 PM
On the FW-190 arnament advantage, it's reasonably well armed, still...

http://marvin.kset.org/~riddler/head-on.avi

danjama
12-06-2005, 01:53 PM
I fly 190 almost exclusively ever since i started flying with fish and saw how he handled it!

If i had to rely on outrunning people on warclouds i would be dead meat every time! Most of the time you have got to outmaneuvre and outsmart them. It is hard to learn but once you have it learnt, it works every time. P51's, Spits, P38's, P63's, their all out maneuverable. TBH the only opponents i struggle with on Warclouds is Spitfires. Even then only if their good in it (Blu and Bird pwn me every time i meet them).

I use 250m convergence on my 190 for Cannon, and 310 on my MG's.

DIRTY-MAC
12-06-2005, 02:20 PM
A pack of coordiated Fw190s is what I fear most online of any fighter, in that they are extreemly deadly,
The greatest thing with the 190 from my point of wiew is its excellent snapshot abilities,you can through that nose around on the target at high speed like nothing else,
well flown its really scary

Genie-
12-06-2005, 02:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:

The Fw190 has many advantages over the competition in PF, including speed, roll rate and firepower. I think you are looking only at turn rate in your evaluation and missing the total picture.

The Fw190 had higher wing-loading that many RAF or Soviets a/c, that's a simple fact. It was not designed for horizontal turning. Don't you want the PF model to reflect the historical design? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are missing the picture. I was not saying anything about turn rates of FW.

And what are you mixing is RL with Olegs World when talking about plane specifications.

In short if you fly main countraparts of FW190 (P51, p47, p38, LaXX, Yak etc etc) just like you would fly 190, FW becomes a mediocre plane. (ring ding -&gt; we are talking about 4.02 not RL (just to reminde you.))

Genie-
12-06-2005, 02:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:

well flown its really scary </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

try flying LaXX like you would FW190 if you want to know what is REALLY scary.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

faustnik
12-06-2005, 02:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genie-:


I think you are missing the picture. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may be right Genie, I'm not sure what you are saying.

How this...

What particular aspects of the Fw190 do you think is are modeled correctly in PF 4.02?

Chadburn
12-06-2005, 03:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:


How this...

What particular aspects of the Fw190 do you think is are modeled correctly in PF 4.02? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummm...it's shape?... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
12-06-2005, 03:13 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genie-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DIRTY-MAC:

well flown its really scary </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

try flying LaXX like you would FW190 if you want to know what is REALLY scary.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The La7's wings will break off if you try to fly it like an FW190http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Fact.

p1ngu666
12-06-2005, 03:46 PM
u cant fly those others like 190, infact i suggest u go try...

quick summery

p51 will spin and kill u, or snap wings, and will wobble alot

p47, will wobble a fair bit, but ur best bet

p38 compressability, and huge target, guns dont compair to 190

yak, decent turn and roll rate, guns arent great, weak elivator. oh and dont get hit in the wing unless u wanna be scared.

la series, lose all ur friends from flying n00b plane.

spit, discover why they dont fly in straight lines to get away from faster aponents

oh i use 750metre convergance on 190. fish uses 1000, someone else i forget used 500, i split the difference http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

faustnik
12-06-2005, 03:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
u cant fly those others like 190, infact i suggest u go try...

quick summery

p51 will spin and kill u, or snap wings, and will wobble alot

p47, will wobble a fair bit, but ur best bet

p38 compressability, and huge target, guns dont compair to 190

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fw190/P-47/F4U all work with the same tactics. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Hopefully the Tempest will soon too!

danjama
12-06-2005, 04:05 PM
"La series, lose all ur friends from flying n00b plane."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Chadburn
12-06-2005, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:


The La7's wings will break off if you try to fly it like an FW190http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Fact. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The FW190's wings will break off if you try to fly it like a FW190 too.

p1ngu666
12-06-2005, 04:42 PM
its not as bad as the p51. wish they hadnt put the g limit on as u only snap wings from spiking g's for a split second..

once my p51 snaped a wing cos i opened up throttle :/

yeah faus
theres 4 types of fighter, 1 speed type like 190 p47 etc, interceptor, roc is everything, spit, 109 etc, general like yak, and heavy fighter, twin engine, like mossie 110 etc

Chadburn
12-06-2005, 05:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
its not as bad as the p51. wish they hadnt put the g limit on as u only snap wings from spiking g's for a split second..

once my p51 snaped a wing cos i opened up throttle :/

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the wing breakage in the P51 is particularly annoying too.

anarchy52
12-06-2005, 05:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
its not as bad as the p51. wish they hadnt put the g limit on as u only snap wings from spiking g's for a split second..

once my p51 snaped a wing cos i opened up throttle :/
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

P-51 issue is related to over-effectiveness of elevators at high speed, while it was very manuverable for WWII fighter at high speed, it wasn't nearly as much as in game. If elevator effectiveness were to be reduced 51 would be easier to fly at low speed and wouldn't suffer from over-G structural failure. It really shouldn't be able to pull 14G at 650km/h without using trim. That's insane.

The problem with FW-190 is acceleration (just try to take off with 100% fuel and see how much runway you need), high speed roll rate (lower then historical while most planes roll better then historical) and turn. Yes, FW turns worse then it should. It's not a turnfighter, but it doesn't mean it couldn't change direction.

According to US test FW-190, I believe it was A4 in not-so-good condition (characteristic rough-running engine) in a turnfight FW would get on P-47's tail in 3 turns. At 26000 feet where BMW was above rated alt. That is similar to Spitfire vs 109 turn comparison IIRC. In the game P47 can do sharp reversals followed by sharp slightly upwards turn which FW can't follow because it will snap stall. Even at horisontal sustained turn I believe focke is slightly worse then Jug.

Now, that ain't right, is it?
http://marvin.kset.org/~riddler/p47-fw190-4.jpg

MLudner
12-06-2005, 05:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
The pilot makes more of a difference than the physics of the plane.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It certainly does not in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Au contraire, mon ami: It makes just all the difference. When I escorted those A20's (Refer to "P-51 Won The War", pg 10) both of them made it back to base without a scratch in either case. Same can't be be said for the 190D9 or 190A8.

Serpentmaster09
12-06-2005, 05:41 PM
the 190 might be tough, but it is no match for a well flown King Cobra with a 37 mm bite. The cannon cracks open the 190s shell real nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Its fast and any 109 it cant out turn, it can out run. Unfortunately most dont have the patience to master the serpent. SSSSSSSSSSSSSS

anarchy52
12-06-2005, 05:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
The pilot makes more of a difference than the physics of the plane.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It certainly does not in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Au contraire, mon ami: It makes just all the difference. When I escorted those A20's (Refer to "P-51 Won The War", pg 10) both of them made it back to base without a scratch in either case. Same can't be be said for the 190D9 or 190A8. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

flying vs AIs?!? You can't be serious?

MLudner
12-06-2005, 05:55 PM
I love the Aircobra. We get along well in the air. I am flying D-2's over New Guinea with the 36th Pursuit Squadron / 8th FG in my PTO campaign and Burrows just made Ace in it (Though, 2 of his victories were made in a P-40C over Hawaii).

danjama
12-06-2005, 06:48 PM
Ive got some nice cheese and ham sandwiches here if any of you would like a bite to eat...Only, i know this thread has been going on way longer than it should and i for one am getting hungry http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Fish6891
12-06-2005, 07:54 PM
I so happy to see the Focke-Wulf community remains so zealous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I remember my first thread here, called "Focke-Wulf Tactics", resulted in a tome of Focke info from a buncha Focke people, whilst a recent thread of similar tone called "Spitfire tactics" yielded a measly couple of pages with vague info, what might that mean? :P

Fish6891
12-06-2005, 08:12 PM
The Focke-Wulf imo simply has the deadliest combination of characteristcs of all the planes out there.

I know it can difficult understand how a plane like the Focke can be so good, when it can be so unfriendly when compared to say, the usual subject, a Spit.

Well its because thats the only major advantage the Spit, and several other planes, have over the Focke. The fact that they are easier to fly (Not that they shouldn't be...the Spit was historically friendly to new pilots). It doesn't really make them the better fighter.

Think of it this way -
Put a n00b in a Spit and a n00b in a Focke-Wulf. Well the Spit is going to be more successful.

Now, take a couple of experts and put one in a Spit and one in a Focke, and the Focke will be more formidable.

^^IMO

Good pilot + Focke = Majorly deadly efficient weapon

Pirschjaeger
12-06-2005, 09:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fish6891:
I so happy to see the Focke-Wulf community remains so zealous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I remember my first thread here, called "Focke-Wulf Tactics", resulted in a tome of Focke info from a buncha Focke people, whilst a recent thread of similar tone called "Spitfire tactics" yielded a measly couple of pages with vague info, what might that mean? :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've seen the tactics of Spit pilots. Not much to talk about.

With a tactical pilot, the Spit can be deadly, but tactical pilots rarely fly them.

"Well its because thats the only major advantage the Spit, and several other planes, have over the Focke. The fact that they are easier to fly (Not that they shouldn't be...the Spit was historically friendly to new pilots). It doesn't really make them the better fighter."

I agree 110% with this and would like to add that by flying Spits or La7s, you will not achieve your potential skills.


Fritz

faustnik
12-06-2005, 10:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:

I agree 110% with this and would like to add that by flying Spits or La7s, you will not achieve your potential skills.
Fritz </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A good Spit pilot has a lot to worry about. He has to deal with a plane that is slower than the competition in most cases. It takes skill to be good in any plane. While a good Fw190 pilot has to mantain his speed advatage, a good Spitfire pilot has to maintain his height advantage. Neither is easy in a combat situation.

TX-Gunslinger
12-06-2005, 10:46 PM
S~ to all my old FW mates. Here's hoping your Spitfire tally's are Prillerish http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Remember those roll rate tests that Tagert posted a few months ago?

That's my biggest gripe. Even though the roll rates at low speed are excellent (much too fast), the roll rates at higher speeds (say 400 kmh plus) are horrible. Now, I've run through these threads and seen folks talk about routine 300 kmh flying. Good indication of a problem, imho.

FW-190's should spend most of their time above 350kmh, and live happiest above 400. Not in 4.02. Roll rate peak is way too low at high speed, where the Focke Wulf loves to fight.

My next biggest gripe is the A4's new low rpm engine. It rev's like a tractor. Faustnik (as usual) has hit that nail right on the head.

Next time you reinstall, go fly the Anton's in AEP before patching. That's what the roll rate of the FW should be like in this sim. Sadly, this is no more. That's another reason (in addition to Faust's vertical climb/AOA point) why evasion is more difficult.

What needs to happen is that the peak roll rate needs to be moved up to it's proper speed, but I don't see this happening due to FM constraints.

On the other hand, the Ta is flying better than ever, but I find this a poor trade-off wrt to what's been lost in the Anton's. The 1942-43 period is my favorite to fly, and historically the Focke-Wulf's "glory days".

The 45 Dora is great below 3K as someone mentioned earlier BUT - Dora's have always been very dissapointing when flown over about 7.5K. At 9-10 Km, where the Dora was designed to flourish, it is very very weak. The real Dora had a service ceiling of around 39,000 feet. Our Dora can't make but a fraction of that. Last time I checked, I could top out higher in an A9.

Last note:

Like all true Focke Wulf pilots in this sim, I'll never quit flying it, no matter what happens. My years with this A/C have made me a much better pilot than if I'd simply chased the "new best" A/C in the game.

So, I'll take my "brick" and do the best I can, like I've always done.

S~

Gunny

P.S. Fritz - That is one of the most awesome sig's I've ever seen!

Von_Rat
12-07-2005, 12:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fish6891:
I so happy to see the Focke-Wulf community remains so zealous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I remember my first thread here, called "Focke-Wulf Tactics", resulted in a tome of Focke info from a buncha Focke people, whilst a recent thread of similar tone called "Spitfire tactics" yielded a measly couple of pages with vague info, what might that mean? :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


it means fish started flying spits,,,,,lol

Von_Rat
12-07-2005, 12:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Genie-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:

The Fw190 has many advantages over the competition in PF, including speed, roll rate and firepower. I think you are looking only at turn rate in your evaluation and missing the total picture.

The Fw190 had higher wing-loading that many RAF or Soviets a/c, that's a simple fact. It was not designed for horizontal turning. Don't you want the PF model to reflect the historical design? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are missing the picture. I was not saying anything about turn rates of FW.

And what are you mixing is RL with Olegs World when talking about plane specifications.

In short if you fly main countraparts of FW190 (P51, p47, p38, LaXX, Yak etc etc) just like you would fly 190, FW becomes a mediocre plane. (ring ding -&gt; we are talking about 4.02 not RL (just to reminde you.)) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


if you fly a p51 like a fw, which you should, you have slower acceleration less firepower and have poorer low alt performence. and are slower at many hieghts.

same goes for p47 and 38 bad roll for 38 also. both of these should be flown like a fw but you have even less performance except hi up.

as for spit its horriable hi speed roll and low speed make it the hardest to fly like fw.

in short the plane that does best when flown a little hi and fast, like a fw is,,,,,,,,,THE FW.

TX-Gunslinger
12-07-2005, 12:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fish6891:
I so happy to see the Focke-Wulf community remains so zealous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I remember my first thread here, called "Focke-Wulf Tactics", resulted in a tome of Focke info from a buncha Focke people, whilst a recent thread of similar tone called "Spitfire tactics" yielded a measly couple of pages with vague info, what might that mean? :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


it means fish started flying spits,,,,,lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fish in a Spit? I'll buy that one when I see cows fly...

Genie-
12-07-2005, 12:33 AM
What particular aspects of the Fw190 do you think is are modeled correctly in PF 4.02?

well.. first of all I hate 4.02. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It is the worst and #$%& patch ever.

Correctly? hm..

big cannons http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

as I said before .. somebody took FW code from 3.04 and just copy paste it in 4.02

Von_Rat
12-07-2005, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Gunslinger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fish6891:
I so happy to see the Focke-Wulf community remains so zealous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I remember my first thread here, called "Focke-Wulf Tactics", resulted in a tome of Focke info from a buncha Focke people, whilst a recent thread of similar tone called "Spitfire tactics" yielded a measly couple of pages with vague info, what might that mean? :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


it means fish started flying spits,,,,,lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fish in a Spit? I'll buy that one when I see cows fly... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


well the cows in your area are gonna sprout wings then, because its ,,,,gasp,,,, true.

HellToupee
12-07-2005, 12:39 AM
I saw fish in a spitfire once, right before i shot his wing off with the 190 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Von_Rat
12-07-2005, 12:56 AM
when fish is in a spit on warclouds every spit flyer better make sure he doesn't have the same call sign.

because every blue on server will gang,,, errrr,,,sexually assualt him.

WOLFMondo
12-07-2005, 01:13 AM
Thats just you JV44 guys :P

danjama
12-07-2005, 05:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Gunslinger:
S~ to all my old FW mates. Here's hoping your Spitfire tally's are Prillerish http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Remember those roll rate tests that Tagert posted a few months ago?

That's my biggest gripe. Even though the roll rates at low speed are excellent (much too fast), the roll rates at higher speeds (say 400 kmh plus) are horrible. Now, I've run through these threads and seen folks talk about routine 300 kmh flying. Good indication of a problem, imho.

FW-190's should spend most of their time above 350kmh, and live happiest above 400. Not in 4.02. Roll rate peak is way too low at high speed, where the Focke Wulf loves to fight.

My next biggest gripe is the A4's new low rpm engine. It rev's like a tractor. Faustnik (as usual) has hit that nail right on the head.

Next time you reinstall, go fly the Anton's in AEP before patching. That's what the roll rate of the FW should be like in this sim. Sadly, this is no more. That's another reason (in addition to Faust's vertical climb/AOA point) why evasion is more difficult.

What needs to happen is that the peak roll rate needs to be moved up to it's proper speed, but I don't see this happening due to FM constraints.

On the other hand, the Ta is flying better than ever, but I find this a poor trade-off wrt to what's been lost in the Anton's. The 1942-43 period is my favorite to fly, and historically the Focke-Wulf's "glory days".

The 45 Dora is great below 3K as someone mentioned earlier BUT - Dora's have always been very dissapointing when flown over about 7.5K. At 9-10 Km, where the Dora was designed to flourish, it is very very weak. The real Dora had a service ceiling of around 39,000 feet. Our Dora can't make but a fraction of that. Last time I checked, I could top out higher in an A9.

Last note:

Like all true Focke Wulf pilots in this sim, I'll never quit flying it, no matter what happens. My years with this A/C have made me a much better pilot than if I'd simply chased the "new best" A/C in the game.

So, I'll take my "brick" and do the best I can, like I've always done.

S~

Gunny

P.S. Fritz - That is one of the most awesome sig's I've ever seen! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

FW roll at high speeds is lame!

mynameisroland
12-07-2005, 07:37 AM
Test this out, try a CW Spitfire IX or VIII it can out roll a Fw A6 at speeds of 700kmh +

This makes the Spitfire a very dangerous foe when trying to out roll one at high speeds. You have no roll advantage at combat speeds.

That is Bull**** in my humble opinion.

Chadburn
12-07-2005, 08:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Test this out, try a CW Spitfire IX or VIII it can out roll a Fw A6 at speeds of 700kmh +

This makes the Spitfire a very dangerous foe when trying to out roll one at high speeds. You have no roll advantage at combat speeds.

That is Bull**** in my humble opinion. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tagert's roll tests show that the 190's high speed roll is far too slow so what you say wouldn't surprise me. The CW Spit's slower speed roll is really far too slow as well but actually improves at high speed.

In a QMB a while back, I sheered a wing off an A6 trying to follow a full wing Spit IX in a spiralling dive. It occured around 690 kph TAS. So not only is the roll too slow, but apparently the FW's wing is weak in high speed manoeuvers as well.

WOLFMondo
12-07-2005, 08:24 AM
I've had 190's shed there wings once but it was a deliberate test. Never had them come off otherwise.

mynameisroland
12-07-2005, 08:41 AM
I have shed a wing in the Fw 190 A6 when travelling between 600 and 690 Km/h. I was following a bandit (probably an IL2) to the ground and I dewinged suddenly from about 90m I had no option but to fly underneath the IL2 to escape debris but my altitude was now 50m or less so I dipped below but had to pull up sharply to avoid the ground, my wing snapped clean off.

Pre 4.02 I never had a problem with wings falling off unless I was in a Dora 9.

Out of interest it seems impossible to shed the wing os a Spitfire yet you can black out almost instantly which suggests great elevator authority?

AKA_TAGERT
12-07-2005, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
I have shed a wing in the Fw 190 A6 when travelling between 600 and 690 Km/h. I was following a bandit (probably an IL2) to the ground and I dewinged suddenly from about 90m I had no option but to fly underneath the IL2 to escape debris but my altitude was now 50m or less so I dipped below but had to pull up sharply to avoid the ground, my wing snapped clean off.

Pre 4.02 I never had a problem with wings falling off unless I was in a Dora 9.

Out of interest it seems impossible to shed the wing os a Spitfire yet you can black out almost instantly which suggests great elevator authority? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Got Track?
Then we could see how many g's you were pulling.. that and it would be funny to watch.

mynameisroland
12-07-2005, 09:01 AM
Unlike you TAGERT I dont have 6 x 500GB hard disks to record every single sortie I fly.

You could for once take somebody at face value. You fly Fw 190 and pull high Gs at circa 650km/h and you will lose a wing. Its common knowledge in the Fw 190 community.

Chadburn
12-07-2005, 09:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Unlike you TAGERT I dont have 6 x 500GB hard disks to record every single sortie I fly.

You could for once take somebody at face value. You fly Fw 190 and pull high Gs at circa 650km/h and you will lose a wing. Its common knowledge in the Fw 190 community. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Roland...he's not doubting your word. He's just suggesting that device link could measure what G force the wing was subjected to when it shed so we could know if it's a bug.

BTW Tagert, I've got a track of it happening to me.

p1ngu666
12-07-2005, 09:29 AM
think its 15 or 14g chad, so it only affects highly effective elivator aircraft, and/or undamped like p51. i think a spit comes just below that.

we cant sustain that high a G in a turn, also to give u a idea how punishing that is, at 4-5G forward acceloration, x15? pilots found the tendons that hold the heart in place start to hurt http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

little wings of 190 make it pants for high alt basicaly.

AKA_TAGERT
12-07-2005, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Unlike you TAGERT I dont have 6 x 500GB hard disks to record every single sortie I fly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, just talk, got it, thanks. Point was, had you saved that track, or another, we could get an idea of how many g's you were pulling when the wing snapped.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
You could for once take somebody at face value. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Why start now?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
You fly Fw 190 and pull high Gs at circa 650km/h and you will lose a wing. Its common knowledge in the Fw 190 community. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Got Track?

mynameisroland
12-07-2005, 09:50 AM
Do you 'Got' track to prove otherwise TAGERT?

As I said I do not waste my gaming time recording every single sortie. It would fill up more than my Hard disk can hold.

Does anyone dispute the fact that the wings fall off the Fw 190? No, good. Why record it ... for posterity? There is clearly an issue with wings falling off Mustang and Fw 190. My stick settings havnt changed since 4.01 so all that has changed is the global FM.

p1ngu666
12-07-2005, 09:57 AM
my spitfire in blue book has these figures

PR XI (merlin 70)

time to 20,000ft 5 mins

time to 30,000 about 8.3

service ceiling 44,000 (possible to go higher, ceiling was when the roc dropped below a certain amount that i cant remmber)

speed at 27,000ft 422mph

dora
426mph at 21,650ft
397mph at 32,810ft

time to 19,685 7.1mins
time to 32,810 16.8mins

ceiling, 39,372ft

jumo be better than the bmw engine up high tho, no doubt about that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

HellToupee
12-07-2005, 10:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
I have shed a wing in the Fw 190 A6 when travelling between 600 and 690 Km/h. I was following a bandit (probably an IL2) to the ground and I dewinged suddenly from about 90m I had no option but to fly underneath the IL2 to escape debris but my altitude was now 50m or less so I dipped below but had to pull up sharply to avoid the ground, my wing snapped clean off.

Pre 4.02 I never had a problem with wings falling off unless I was in a Dora 9.

Out of interest it seems impossible to shed the wing os a Spitfire yet you can black out almost instantly which suggests great elevator authority? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

HellToupee
12-07-2005, 10:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
I have shed a wing in the Fw 190 A6 when travelling between 600 and 690 Km/h. I was following a bandit (probably an IL2) to the ground and I dewinged suddenly from about 90m I had no option but to fly underneath the IL2 to escape debris but my altitude was now 50m or less so I dipped below but had to pull up sharply to avoid the ground, my wing snapped clean off.

Pre 4.02 I never had a problem with wings falling off unless I was in a Dora 9.

Out of interest it seems impossible to shed the wing os a Spitfire yet you can black out almost instantly which suggests great elevator authority? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I snapped a wing off a seafire once, and only at around 400kph ias :P, i pulled it into a very tight turn even touched some flaps down, cos i noticed a ki84 zooming up beind me and snap not even a hit of blackout.

ploughman
12-07-2005, 10:22 AM
Has Tagert copyrighted "Got track?" That's pretty funny. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Got Track? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

mynameisroland
12-07-2005, 10:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HellToupee:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
I have shed a wing in the Fw 190 A6 when travelling between 600 and 690 Km/h. I was following a bandit (probably an IL2) to the ground and I dewinged suddenly from about 90m I had no option but to fly underneath the IL2 to escape debris but my altitude was now 50m or less so I dipped below but had to pull up sharply to avoid the ground, my wing snapped clean off.

Pre 4.02 I never had a problem with wings falling off unless I was in a Dora 9.

Out of interest it seems impossible to shed the wing os a Spitfire yet you can black out almost instantly which suggests great elevator authority? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I snapped a wing off a seafire once, and only at around 400kph ias :P, i pulled it into a very tight turn even touched some flaps down, cos i noticed a ki84 zooming up beind me and snap not even a hit of blackout. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Got track?

OldMan___
12-07-2005, 10:25 AM
Did TARGET or any other sent that Roll test results to oleg and team? Or are we complaining to the clouds ?

MLudner
12-07-2005, 10:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pirschjaeger:
The pilot makes more of a difference than the physics of the plane.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It certainly does not in the game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Au contraire, mon ami: It makes just all the difference. When I escorted those A20's (Refer to "P-51 Won The War", pg 10) both of them made it back to base without a scratch in either case. Same can't be be said for the 190D9 or 190A8. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

flying vs AIs?!? You can't be serious? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


AI, Human; makes no nevermind. That is beside the point. In fact, your response here makes my point; if the pilot makes no difference, then why would human be any better than AI?
Besides, while human can be better than any AI, not all Humans are as good as AI.

p1ngu666
12-07-2005, 10:52 AM
ai can cheat, especialy in roll rate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Genie-
12-07-2005, 11:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
my spitfire in blue book has these figures

PR XI (merlin 70)

time to 20,000ft 5 mins

yadaa yada yada... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

please ..be on topic, use Olegs World Data

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

MLudner
12-07-2005, 11:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
ai can cheat, especialy in roll rate http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Do you kick rudder when you roll? That helps.

But, indeed; There are times I would swear they knew just where my gunsight was pointed. They roll into a maneuver, I lead and fire into it, they roll again and go in another direction...

Chadburn
12-07-2005, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
think its 15 or 14g chad, so it only affects highly effective elivator aircraft, and/or undamped like p51. i think a spit comes just below that.

we cant sustain that high a G in a turn, also to give u a idea how punishing that is, at 4-5G forward acceloration, x15? pilots found the tendons that hold the heart in place start to hurt http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

little wings of 190 make it pants for high alt basicaly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think I was anywhere near 14 or 15g, and not near blackout at all.

An ntrk of the wing snap is available here:
http://www.ihud.com/file.php?file=071205/1133984132/A6wing.zip

p1ngu666
12-07-2005, 01:54 PM
chad, u cant pull into a 15g turn gradualy, ull black out, however u can "spike" suddenly to 15g in a few planes.

only sudden changes in direction, or acell/stoping will produce high G

anarchy52
12-07-2005, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
chad, u cant pull into a 15g turn gradualy, ull black out, however u can "spike" suddenly to 15g in a few planes.

only sudden changes in direction, or acell/stoping will produce high G </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

true, blackout happens progressivelly not instantly (even if you pull over 7G you will not black out instantly). So far realistic.

On the other hand pulling 14+G in a split second in a WWII fighter (P-51) without even using trim at 700km/h is ridiculous to say the least.

Fish6891
12-07-2005, 10:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Gunslinger:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Von_Rat:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fish6891:
I so happy to see the Focke-Wulf community remains so zealous http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I remember my first thread here, called "Focke-Wulf Tactics", resulted in a tome of Focke info from a buncha Focke people, whilst a recent thread of similar tone called "Spitfire tactics" yielded a measly couple of pages with vague info, what might that mean? :P </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


it means fish started flying spits,,,,,lol </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fish in a Spit? I'll buy that one when I see cows fly... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


well the cows in your area are gonna sprout wings then, because its ,,,,gasp,,,, true. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I fly anything/everything and that includes Spits :P

Focke series is still my favorite by far of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fish6891
12-07-2005, 10:35 PM
I rarely have the wings snap on me in the Focke but it is possible I know that. The 51 is a little ridiculous though, I can manage to keep my wings intact pretty much all the time, but I have to be much more careful on it than I am in a Focke. When it does happen its like wtf?

I had it happen from rolling at high speed once :\

TX-Gunslinger
12-08-2005, 12:02 AM
Originally posted by Fish6891:
I fly anything/everything and that includes Spits :P

Focke series is still my favorite by far of course http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/QUOTE]

Hi Fish! Well I fly ALMOST anything and everything http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Actually, I've diversified quite a bit. I've come to really enjoy many Red aircraft this year. As XO of a squadron that has predominatly Red A/C pilots I felt it was important.

But, like you, my fave is still the FW.

Have'nt been on W/C in ages. Most of my flying has been on GG/PROWAR with TUSA. Time for me to take a break, look up some old friends and see how things are on W/C.

Hope to see you, JV44 and the rest soon.

S~

Gunny

Pirschjaeger
12-08-2005, 01:13 AM
From what I've read it seems you can measure the G's from a track. It this so? How do you do it?

Fritz

Fish6891
12-08-2005, 01:18 AM
Lookin' forward to hearing from ya on TS Slinger http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Pirsch: You're sig is kind of sick 8F

p1ngu666
12-08-2005, 03:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by anarchy52:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
chad, u cant pull into a 15g turn gradualy, ull black out, however u can "spike" suddenly to 15g in a few planes.

only sudden changes in direction, or acell/stoping will produce high G </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

true, blackout happens progressivelly not instantly (even if you pull over 7G you will not black out instantly). So far realistic.

On the other hand pulling 14+G in a split second in a WWII fighter (P-51) without even using trim at 700km/h is ridiculous to say the least. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats not quite true, u could easily pull 15g, by slamming into the ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Pirschjaeger
12-08-2005, 03:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fish6891:
Pirsch: You're sig is kind of sick 8F </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you'll really love the next one I'm working on. Stay tuned. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz

nakamura_kenji
12-08-2005, 03:50 AM
old avatar be nicer.

my impression be fw-190 be that no much write home other than be fire power overkill no my type plane but would no like one behind me &gt;_&lt;. it much like f6f aslong be one it ok fight but no want fight more

neural_dream
12-08-2005, 03:51 AM
oh yeah, older avatar was better. And would make better contrast with the (gr8 btw) wolf in the sig.

Pirschjaeger
12-08-2005, 05:20 AM
I love that wolf pic. It's still not as cool as WarWolfe's though.

Still not happy with my sig though. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Fritz

robban75
12-08-2005, 07:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:

dora

time to 19,685 7.1mins
time to 32,810 16.8mins

ceiling, 39,372ft

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those are not full power climbs. If you add a little MW50 to that, the D-9 will reach 20,000ft in little over 5 minutes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

arjisme
12-08-2005, 09:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Does anyone dispute the fact that the wings fall off the Fw 190? No, good. Why record it ... for posterity? There is clearly an issue with wings falling off Mustang and Fw 190. My stick settings havnt changed since 4.01 so all that has changed is the global FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Pretty sure you'll get general agreement that the wings on the FW will fall off. Is that all the debate is about? Well, no. The fact that they fall off begs the question: why? It makes great sense to seek evidence that can be studied to help explain why they fall off. Thus, Tagert's request for a track. Why be defensive about that? Maybe a quick study will show that the plane was pulling 15G. Maybe those wings aren't so weak, but the elevators have too much authority? How about we try to understand what the actual issue is? A track would be a nice starting point.

Chadburn
12-08-2005, 09:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ar****e:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Does anyone dispute the fact that the wings fall off the Fw 190? No, good. Why record it ... for posterity? There is clearly an issue with wings falling off Mustang and Fw 190. My stick settings havnt changed since 4.01 so all that has changed is the global FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Pretty sure you'll get general agreement that the wings on the FW will fall off. Is that all the debate is about? Well, no. The fact that they fall off begs the question: why? It makes great sense to seek evidence that can be studied to help explain why they fall off. Thus, Tagert's request for a track. Why be defensive about that? Maybe a quick study will show that the plane was pulling 15G. Maybe those wings aren't so weak, but the elevators have too much authority? How about we try to understand what the actual issue is? A track would be a nice starting point. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I posted a track earlier. Hopefully Tagert or someone could check the g forces in place when the wing came off. Devicelink doesn't give a direct g force readout though, so would it be accurate?

CUJO_1970
12-08-2005, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Gunslinger:
Have'nt been on W/C in ages. Most of my flying has been on GG/PROWAR with TUSA. Time for me to take a break, look up some old friends and see how things are on W/C.

Hope to see you, JV44 and the rest soon.

S~

Gunny </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Man, I would love to have some of you TX squad FW190 drivers working with us on comms on WC.

I've flown with Zen and Eco-Dragon (not on comms though) and they were awesome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

faustnik
12-08-2005, 01:23 PM
Cujo,

Check the squad site, we have news!

Jeez, your like the lost wulf or something. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

CUJO_1970
12-08-2005, 04:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by faustnik:
Cujo,

Check the squad site, we have news!

Jeez, your like the lost wulf or something. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


LOL! Sorry!

OK, I'll be right over... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

horseback
12-08-2005, 04:57 PM
Pirschjeager's sig makes me wonder if he's met my ex...(which makes me also wonder if he's broke and desperate for any dish with potatoes in it).

cheers

horseback

anarchy52
12-08-2005, 05:00 PM
Despite having their own forums WC crowd is turning ubi zoo into warclouds spam/chatroom.

I'd ban anyone for even mentioning warclouds on this forum.
GRRRRRRRR

faustnik
12-08-2005, 05:19 PM
Warclouds is a nice DF server. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

CUJO_1970
12-08-2005, 06:14 PM
WarClouds is my server of choice.

p1ngu666
12-08-2005, 06:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:

dora

time to 19,685 7.1mins
time to 32,810 16.8mins

ceiling, 39,372ft

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those are not full power climbs. If you add a little MW50 to that, the D-9 will reach 20,000ft in little over 5 minutes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
didnt think dora was that good at climbin

TX-Gunslinger
12-08-2005, 09:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CUJO_1970:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Gunslinger:
Have'nt been on W/C in ages. Most of my flying has been on GG/PROWAR with TUSA. Time for me to take a break, look up some old friends and see how things are on W/C.

Hope to see you, JV44 and the rest soon.

S~

Gunny </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Man, I would love to have some of you TX squad FW190 drivers working with us on comms on WC.

I've flown with Zen and Eco-Dragon (not on comms though) and they were awesome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Zen and Eco are my Brothers and mentors and it's always great to hear someone say nice things about them! Thank you.

TX-Ecodragon is Black 1 and I'm his wing in TX. One of the greatest experiences for me this year, was to have Eco join TUSA. He worked up with us prior to our last match with Team Russia (FB+ROSS) and flew the match with us.

I visted with Zen not to long ago, and I'm happy to report he's doing just great, but busy as heck and has'nt had time to fly (similar situation for me right this minute).

Thank you again for your kind words Cujo. We'll be back soon. There are so many fine servers out there, and so little time.

We have been too long away from War Clouds.

S~

Fish6891
12-09-2005, 01:21 AM
Warclouds is first-class DF server, recommend it to everyone here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

robban75
12-09-2005, 02:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by robban75:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:

dora

time to 19,685 7.1mins
time to 32,810 16.8mins

ceiling, 39,372ft

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those are not full power climbs. If you add a little MW50 to that, the D-9 will reach 20,000ft in little over 5 minutes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
didnt think dora was that good at climbin </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not as good as the Spitfire, but for an airplane with such a high wingloading the D-9 is very good. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

RL climbrates from sealevel - 5000m. In m/sec. Fw 190D-9 '45.

SL - 22.5
1000m - 22.3
2000m - 21.0
3000m - 20.8
4000m - 20.4
5000m - 17.9

In-game climbrates

SL - ?
1000m - 21.3
2000m - 20.4
3000m - 20.4
4000m - 20.8
5000m - 20.0
6000m - 16.9
7000m - 12.8

The in-game Dora climbs too slowly the first 3000m, and after that it climbs too fast. The time to altitude in-game compares well with RL figures though.