PDA

View Full Version : wfr.gr.21 "Stovepipes"?



SS_Bubblehead
11-22-2004, 10:13 AM
In the book "AirCraft of the Aces: Legends of WWII" Hermann Graf is quoted as saying that they placed anti-bomber formation rockets on the wings of his Bf-109G, they resembled stovepipes. I am assuming this is the same weapon as the Wfr.Gr.21 rockets in the game?

I have found this payload on the Bf110 and the FW-190, but not the the Bf-109 did I miss it somewhere?

SS_Bubblehead
11-22-2004, 10:13 AM
In the book "AirCraft of the Aces: Legends of WWII" Hermann Graf is quoted as saying that they placed anti-bomber formation rockets on the wings of his Bf-109G, they resembled stovepipes. I am assuming this is the same weapon as the Wfr.Gr.21 rockets in the game?

I have found this payload on the Bf110 and the FW-190, but not the the Bf-109 did I miss it somewhere?

WTE_Galway
11-22-2004, 03:42 PM
fitted to the Me-109G-6/R2 "Pulk Zerst├┬Ârer"

do not think we have that variant in game

TX-Gunslinger
11-24-2004, 02:38 AM
We have the Wgfr 21, air modified Nebelwefer 210 mm, contact and time-fuse detonated weapons in the FW-190 series and ME-110G aircraft. They are awesome weapons, if you learn how to use them, which is quite complicated. The Me-110 actually carries two pair, for two shots.

I have a great interest in this weapon, as if you can use it, you have the ability to bring down a bomber with one shot.

Besides the Me-109 omission, I have found at least two references (Helmut Lipfert's autobiography and an FW-190 book) which state that the launch tubes were able to be jetisonned by the pilot after launch. This is not so in the game, and A/C which use this weapon pay a penalty in drag and top speed by carrying the tubes.

If you ever turn up another source that says the stovepies were jettisonable, could you please PM me with the info?

Thanks

ElmerFuddGantry
11-24-2004, 03:25 AM
Hi Stovepipe,

Agree with you about the ommission of the Gr.21 from the Bf 109's. I've never heard of them being jetisonable though. In an earlier flight sim "European Airwar" they had them, but I could never ditch them after use. Apparently wern't widely used. I've read that some G-6's were tested with them but proved unsatisfactory and seldom used. On the Bf110 and FW190, they are "rustsatze" options. Glad to see that your getting kills with themm, but what is your technique in using them? I can never get it right. They are much harder to use then the RM rockets. What I'd like to know is, at what range do you fire them the target? How long do you set the range and timer on the rocket? Their trajectory seems to curve up, then drop. So do you fire under the target? Do always fire them into the enemy bomber formations six o'clock position. Thanks for any reply.

Abbuzze
11-24-2004, 03:29 AM
JG53 used them at the invasion in Sicily vs landingboats with succsess, but the 109 got a nasty landing behavier cause of them.

Ugly_Kid
11-24-2004, 09:00 AM
This more or less says it:

http://people.freenet.de/hausberg/page_209.jpg

"Im Notfall konnten die kompletten Ger├┬Ąte abgesprengt werden."

"In case of emergency the complete equipment could be jettisoned."


Additionally, I recall reading the same thing in Heinz Knoke's "I flew for F├╝hrer but I just can't find the book at the moment...

TX-Gunslinger
11-24-2004, 02:11 PM
Hey UglyKid! Wow, thanks for that translation and page. Now I have several references for the ability to jettison the tubes!

I thought I'd marked all my Wgfr 21 references, but I did'nt. Anyway, here is one, from Osprey Aviation Series, by John Weal "Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richtofen'". On page 108-109 there is a description of Leutnant Wolfgang Fischer's D-Day sortie off Vers-sur-mer, along the 'Gold' beach head, using these weapons from an FW-190.

"Dodging between the fat, dark shapes of the barrage balloons, I was the only one lucky enough to find a fair sized vessel - it could have been a Liberty ship - almost directly in my path. It was turning slightly to port, so I aimed off a full ships length ahead and pressed the red button nomally used to jettison the ventral fuel tank.

For a split second I seemed to be enveloped in flames. Relieved of the weight of the rockets, the machine leaped upwards. Recovering from the shock, I watched the twin points of light head down towards the target. One exploded on the stern of the ship. The other disappeared in a foutain of water just behind her.

I released the two launch tubes, and quickly built up speed in a shallow dive towards the shore and home. I fired at the beaches as I passed overhead, but it wasn't safe to linger because of the numerous enemy fighter patrols."

One other thing, the FW-190 in the picture above is certainly an A4/A5 aircraft due to the MG-FF cannon in the outer wing position. I suspect it is probably an A5.

In the sim/game, you'll find that the outer wing cannons are removed if you arm with this weapon. I have picture after picture of later model FW-190's with the MG-151's intact in the outer wing position.

For those asking about employment considerations and techniques:

I'll be posting a very long Wgfr 21 employment guide in the "FW-190 Tactics" thread today. I've put this off for a long time, but since you guys are showing interest in this weapon, i'll work on the post today".

Thank you for showing interest in this obscure hardware. I thought I was the only one interested in using this, and I'm thankful that I'm not

Steven190
11-24-2004, 02:34 PM
Thanks TX
I have used this weapon with little success. I can't get the aim point right, but trying.

Look forward to more insight on this.

WTE_Galway
11-24-2004, 04:07 PM
they are an intersting weapon

i recall reading an interview with a former luftwaffe pilot who when asked about the effect of these on an allied bomber simply said one word "devastating"

BBB_Hyperion
11-24-2004, 06:45 PM
Just as Sitenote 3 years ago Oleg said not possible to model the emergency drop. I doubt that as bombs can be attached too !

Buckaroo12
11-25-2004, 12:40 AM
I'm curious...

I haven't done any formal research whatsoever on the German rockets, but I do remember reading somewhere that the GR.21 rockets were intended to disrupt allied bomber formations as opposed to being a more precise plane to plane missile like the R4M was.

My understanding of how they were supposed to work was that Luftwaffe pilots would lob them into the middle of say a box formation of bombers and the fragmentation area was so great that the bombers would be forced to break the formation and lose the advantage of massed guns, leaving individual bombers vulnerable to being picked off one by one.

In this game though, it seems that most try to use it as more of a air to air missle then a tool to break formations... Not trying to contradict anyone here, I haven't had any luck forcing formations apart with it so there's a good chance that I'm completely wrong!!!

The_Ant
11-25-2004, 01:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ugly_Kid:

Additionally, I recall reading the same thing in Heinz Knoke's "I flew for F├╝hrer but I just can't find the book at the moment... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes Knocke and his fellow pilots used the Wfr.Gr.21 rocket,sometimes in the book.I think they were one of the first units to use it in combat.I canÔ┬┤t remember excatly,but i think Johnny Fest in the book destroys 2 or 3 B-17s with 2 rockets getting a direct hit at one b-17 and the debris destroys the other 2.

TX-Gunslinger
11-25-2004, 04:03 AM
I'm a little late with the post, but it's coming. I had developed charts for the B-17G, Pe-8, TB3 and HE-111 about six months ago. They still work.

However, I just realized today, all the new bombers we have. A quick peak: Taking B-29's apart with this weapon will be easier than killing TB-3's with it! Of course you don't really need it against TB-3's.

You have to gauge the relative motion between you and the target, and estimate it's range. If your'e on a server with icons, it's easy. Not as easy without icons, but I have some ways!

Take a B-17 for example (any type will do, they all burn the same). Set your screen resolution to 1024 X 768, Visibility Distance to Low.

Now, set up QMB for test purposes with 4 friendly B-17G's. Get behind them a click or two and close. Use narrowest FOV, or Highest Zoom while following the bomber from his six in the gunsight.

Ok, Watch his propellers real close, they will "appear" at .52 km/520 meters! Magic!
If you adjust the Visibility Distance to medium, then the propellers will become visible at .69 km/690 meters

What's really cool is that in some of the new bombers, the props have two stages of visibiliy (B-29 and B24) in which they appear at one range and darken at a closer range.

These weapons are most dangerous as "area" munitions vice trying to achieve a point hit. You can rip the wings off a pair of B17G's if you can cause the ordance to explode between them when flying in formation.

1152 X 864 - low visibility setting - test

You need to release your weapons at about .55 km/550 meters at a own A/C speed of 470-500 kmh after the B17G is leveled off, with a rocket fuse delay of 2.2 secs and convergence at 700 meters. You can "range" the B-17G by utilizng 1152 X 864 at a visibilty distance setting of low. Release the rockets when you see the propellers! Now, your'e closure rate is fast. By the time you see the props at .58 your release will be about .54 - .56 depending on how your hand/eye coordination is.

One more thing before you try this! You must aim low as the weapons naturally rise. This was the planned trajectory of the weapon so the pilot coud see them. Use about -18 mils of depression, or place the target a little above the outer ring in the Revi.

Don't shoot at turning planes, wait till they steady up. Shooting turning planes is very advanced. Just try to hit the straight flyers for now.

Enjoy! Oh yeah, it is a little hard at first, but keep trying and slow down the sim to 1/4 speed after you release the rockets. The friendly bombers can't shoot at you and you can monitor precisely where the indirect explosions occur and adjust you aim for the next go. You should try this with unlimited ammo to start, obviously.

When you get proficent, you can even do them from the front, but it's harder, much harder due to the difficulty of judging relative closure rates adequetly. Also, the greatest challenge for real Luftwaffe pilots in employing these weapons where the same as you have in the sim: a) range estimation b) relative closure rate. If you close too fast, the indirect explosion will occur too far in front of the target. Too slow and it will be behind. Fortunatly, you have a margin of error. Both of those warheads carry about 200lbs of HE FRAG together!

In any event, I've been promising a post to include charts and techniques for ME-110's and FW-190, based on my testing and shooting, and I will post it in the near future.

I hope this will help, till I can get the rest put together.

S!

TX-Gunslinger
Black 2

MOhz
11-25-2004, 04:17 AM
Hi TX! If you go to www.luftarchiv.de, (http://www.luftarchiv.de,) then click "Flugkoerper" under Index, "Luft-Luft", then Rh.B WGr21, you will find pictures of a Fw190 with outer cannons intact, fuel thingy underneath and the WGr21. I cannot tell which Fw it is, but I am guessing, later than A5. If you want I can also translate the text for you... greeetings!

TX-Gunslinger
11-25-2004, 04:31 AM
HI MOhz...Great to see you man!

You know what? I've had that link for awhile and can't read it. I'd really, really appreciate it if you could translate it.

I've been wanting to know what said for over a year and a half. I found it once using Google and searcing for "WGr 21".

Thank You Sir!

P.S. Take your time. I wont be back here till tommorow

CARBONFREEZE
11-25-2004, 05:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TX-Gunslinger:
Don't shoot at turning planes, wait till they steady up. Shooting turning planes is very advanced. Just try to hit the straight flyers for now. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remeber getting several deflection shot hits against Yak-3s from about 400m with the 21cm mortars with Fw190 A-5. Very satisfying. I believe it was with v2, on "Greater Green" server. I may have a track around somewhere, I will have to see if I can pull them off of the damaged RAID array on my old gaming machine.

MOhz
11-25-2004, 05:11 AM
Hi, firstly I just would like to point out how stupid I am, because right above the picture in caption is written: Fw190 A-7/R6 wird mit WGr 21 best├╝ckt (is being equiped with...). So my guess was right...

Sorry for having to dissapoint you, but I just cannot cope with the translation, I can however give you a detailed summary. If anyone who is better at translation should pass by, they should give it a shot!

"Der von Dipl.-Ing. Nebel entwickelte 21-cm-Werfer-42 war ein Ger├┬Ąt mit f├╝nf Rohren auf einem Schie├čgestell und verschoss Feldraketen mit einer Reichweite bis zu 7800 m. Als sich 1943 herausstellte, dass sogar schwere Bordkanonen f├╝r die Bek├┬Ąmpfung feindlicher Bomber nicht wirkungsvoll genug waren, wurde aus eigener Verantwortung von deutschen Fliegeroffizieren die Verwendbarkeit des Werfers auf seinen Einbau in Jagdflugzeugen untersucht, was im Januar 1944 zu einer ersten Probeausr├╝stung einiger Me 109, Fw 190 mit je einem Werferrohr und Me 110 mit zwei Werferrohren unter dem Fl├╝gel f├╝hrte. Hierbei konnten die Geschosse in einem Abstand vom Feind bis zu 1200 m verschossen werden. Die sich zeigende gro├če Wirkung bei der Bek├┬Ąmpfung schwerer viermotoriger Bomber rechtfertigte diese Versuche, wenn sie auch nur ein Provisorium blieben, da jeweils nur zwei Geschosse bzw. vier bei Me 110 mitgef├╝hrt werden konnten und diese, da sie nicht fl├╝gelstabilisiert waren, widerstandserh├┬Âhende Abschussrohre erforderten. Der Antrieb bestand aus 18,4 kg Diglykol-Feststoff. Der Sprengkopf besa├č 40,8 kg Pulver. Der erste Erfolg mit dem WGr 21 wurde am 17. August 1943 erzielt. Von 376 angreifenden B-17, die Schweinfurt und Regensburg angriffen, wurden 60, d.h. 16% abgeschossen, teilweise mit Wgr 21. Noch gr├┬Â├čer war der Erfolg am 14. Oktober 1943, als beim Angriff der 8. USAAF auf Schweinfurt von 291 B-17-Bombern 60 abgeschossen wurden, 17 auf dem R├╝ckflug verloren gingen und 131 nach der R├╝ckkehr nicht mehr zu reparieren waren."

The Germans had a 5-pipe 21cm field rocket launcher "Werfer 42" which could fire ranges up to 7800m (7,8km). By 1943 the heavy cannons which the planes used were not enough to bring down the enemy bombers so Fliegeroffiziere tested the effectivness when carried by fighters. In January 1944 the first prototypes were tested on the Me109 (one under each wing), Fw190 (as well) and on the Me110 (two under each wing). They could be fired at enemies from distance of 1200m and because of their obvious effectivness against 4props the test were seen as successful. However due to only 2(4) rockets could be carried along and because the rockets did not have stabalizers and so needed "friction increasing pipes", they did not see much usage. They were powered by 18,4 kg ( you will have to look this uphttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)Diglykol-Solidfuel. The heads had 40,8kg of explosive powder.
The first success reported was on 17.
August 1943. Of 376 B17s that attacked Sweinfurt and Regensburg, 60 (16%) were shot down, partially with WGr21. The success was even greater on Oct. 14 1943 when the 8th USAAF attacked Schweinfurt with 291 B17s: 60 shot down, 17 lost on the way home, 131 not to repair.

'scus my terrible English, but that would be it roughly, I will try and link the pic!http://luftarchiv.de/flugkorper/wgr4.jpg

MOhz
11-25-2004, 05:18 AM
Hi, firstly I just would like to point out how stupid I am, because right above the picture in caption is written: Fw190 A-7/R6 wird mit WGr 21 best├╝ckt (is being equiped with...). So my guess was right...

Sorry for having to dissapoint you, but I just cannot cope with the translation, I can however give you a detailed summary. If anyone who is better at translation should pass by, they should give it a shot!

"Der von Dipl.-Ing. Nebel entwickelte 21-cm-Werfer-42 war ein Ger├┬Ąt mit f├╝nf Rohren auf einem Schie├čgestell und verschoss Feldraketen mit einer Reichweite bis zu 7800 m. Als sich 1943 herausstellte, dass sogar schwere Bordkanonen f├╝r die Bek├┬Ąmpfung feindlicher Bomber nicht wirkungsvoll genug waren, wurde aus eigener Verantwortung von deutschen Fliegeroffizieren die Verwendbarkeit des Werfers auf seinen Einbau in Jagdflugzeugen untersucht, was im Januar 1944 zu einer ersten Probeausr├╝stung einiger Me 109, Fw 190 mit je einem Werferrohr und Me 110 mit zwei Werferrohren unter dem Fl├╝gel f├╝hrte. Hierbei konnten die Geschosse in einem Abstand vom Feind bis zu 1200 m verschossen werden. Die sich zeigende gro├če Wirkung bei der Bek├┬Ąmpfung schwerer viermotoriger Bomber rechtfertigte diese Versuche, wenn sie auch nur ein Provisorium blieben, da jeweils nur zwei Geschosse bzw. vier bei Me 110 mitgef├╝hrt werden konnten und diese, da sie nicht fl├╝gelstabilisiert waren, widerstandserh├┬Âhende Abschussrohre erforderten. Der Antrieb bestand aus 18,4 kg Diglykol-Feststoff. Der Sprengkopf besa├č 40,8 kg Pulver. Der erste Erfolg mit dem WGr 21 wurde am 17. August 1943 erzielt. Von 376 angreifenden B-17, die Schweinfurt und Regensburg angriffen, wurden 60, d.h. 16% abgeschossen, teilweise mit Wgr 21. Noch gr├┬Â├čer war der Erfolg am 14. Oktober 1943, als beim Angriff der 8. USAAF auf Schweinfurt von 291 B-17-Bombern 60 abgeschossen wurden, 17 auf dem R├╝ckflug verloren gingen und 131 nach der R├╝ckkehr nicht mehr zu reparieren waren."

The Germans had a 5-pipe 21cm field rocket launcher "Werfer 42" which could fire ranges up to 7800m (7,8km). By 1943 the heavy cannons which the planes used were not enough to bring down the enemy bombers so Fliegeroffiziere tested the effectivness when carried by fighters. In January 1944 the first prototypes were tested on the Me109 (one under each wing), Fw190 (as well) and on the Me110 (two under each wing). They could be fired at enemies from distance of 1200m and because of their obvious effectivness against 4props the test were seen as successful. However due to only 2(4) rockets could be carried along and because the rockets did not have stabalizers and so needed "friction increasing pipes", they did not see much usage. They were powered by 18,4 kg ( you will have to look this uphttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)Diglykol-Solidfuel. The heads had 40,8kg of explosive powder.
The first success reported was on 17.
August 1943. Of 376 B17s that attacked Sweinfurt and Regensburg, 60 (16%) were shot down, partially with WGr21. The success was even greater on Oct. 14 1943 when the 8th USAAF attacked Schweinfurt with 291 B17s: 60 shot down, 17 lost on the way home, 131 not to repair.

'scus my terrible English, but that would be it roughly, I will try and link the pic!

Fw190 A-7/R6 wird mit WGr 21 best├╝ckt (is being equiped with...).
http://luftarchiv.de/flugkorper/wgr4.jpg

MOhz
11-25-2004, 05:19 AM
Hi, firstly I just would like to point out how stupid I am, because right above the picture in caption is written: Fw190 A-7/R6 wird mit WGr 21 best├╝ckt (is being equiped with...). So my guess was right...

Sorry for having to dissapoint you, but I just cannot cope with the translation, I can however give you a detailed summary. If anyone who is better at translation should pass by, they should give it a shot!

"Der von Dipl.-Ing. Nebel entwickelte 21-cm-Werfer-42 war ein Ger├┬Ąt mit f├╝nf Rohren auf einem Schie├čgestell und verschoss Feldraketen mit einer Reichweite bis zu 7800 m. Als sich 1943 herausstellte, dass sogar schwere Bordkanonen f├╝r die Bek├┬Ąmpfung feindlicher Bomber nicht wirkungsvoll genug waren, wurde aus eigener Verantwortung von deutschen Fliegeroffizieren die Verwendbarkeit des Werfers auf seinen Einbau in Jagdflugzeugen untersucht, was im Januar 1944 zu einer ersten Probeausr├╝stung einiger Me 109, Fw 190 mit je einem Werferrohr und Me 110 mit zwei Werferrohren unter dem Fl├╝gel f├╝hrte. Hierbei konnten die Geschosse in einem Abstand vom Feind bis zu 1200 m verschossen werden. Die sich zeigende gro├če Wirkung bei der Bek├┬Ąmpfung schwerer viermotoriger Bomber rechtfertigte diese Versuche, wenn sie auch nur ein Provisorium blieben, da jeweils nur zwei Geschosse bzw. vier bei Me 110 mitgef├╝hrt werden konnten und diese, da sie nicht fl├╝gelstabilisiert waren, widerstandserh├┬Âhende Abschussrohre erforderten. Der Antrieb bestand aus 18,4 kg Diglykol-Feststoff. Der Sprengkopf besa├č 40,8 kg Pulver. Der erste Erfolg mit dem WGr 21 wurde am 17. August 1943 erzielt. Von 376 angreifenden B-17, die Schweinfurt und Regensburg angriffen, wurden 60, d.h. 16% abgeschossen, teilweise mit Wgr 21. Noch gr├┬Â├čer war der Erfolg am 14. Oktober 1943, als beim Angriff der 8. USAAF auf Schweinfurt von 291 B-17-Bombern 60 abgeschossen wurden, 17 auf dem R├╝ckflug verloren gingen und 131 nach der R├╝ckkehr nicht mehr zu reparieren waren."

The Germans had a 5-pipe 21cm field rocket launcher "Werfer 42" which could fire ranges up to 7800m (7,8km). By 1943 the heavy cannons which the planes used were not enough to bring down the enemy bombers so Fliegeroffiziere tested the effectivness when carried by fighters. In January 1944 the first prototypes were tested on the Me109 (one under each wing), Fw190 (as well) and on the Me110 (two under each wing). They could be fired at enemies from distance of 1200m and because of their obvious effectivness against 4props the test were seen as successful. However due to only 2(4) rockets could be carried along and because the rockets did not have stabalizers and so needed "friction increasing pipes", they did not see much usage. They were powered by 18,4 kg ( you will have to look this uphttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)Diglykol-Solidfuel. The heads had 40,8kg of explosive powder.
The first success reported was on 17.
August 1943. Of 376 B17s that attacked Sweinfurt and Regensburg, 60 (16%) were shot down, partially with WGr21. The success was even greater on Oct. 14 1943 when the 8th USAAF attacked Schweinfurt with 291 B17s: 60 shot down, 17 lost on the way home, 131 not to repair.

'scus my terrible English, but that would be it roughly, I will try and link the pic!

Fw190 A-7/R6 wird mit WGr 21 best├╝ckt (is being equiped with...).
http://luftarchiv.de/flugkorper/wgr4.jpg

pilotpimpf
11-27-2004, 03:59 AM
Hey TX
Thanks fror this thread, sometime back when l fist got the game l tried using the rockets and just couldnt get the hang of timing and range right. l posted on hear for any info and did searches with no luck so this is great, l look forward to expermenting with your settings.
If memory serves right Heinz Knoeke expermented with dropping bombs into B17 formations to break them up for further attacks and the rockets where designed to do the same thing, they where lobbed into the formations beyond the range of the defensive weapons, the rocket planes then left it to the normal fighters to come in and pick off the aircrsaft that had been knocked out of formation.
The rocket armed aircraft where greatly compromised in performance and where unpopular with the pilots because it made them easier targets for the defensive fighters. When the covering fighters gainded supperiorty the weapon was gradually phased out, many ME 110 , 410 , 109 and Focke Wulf flyers must of been happy at that.
Joining the debate about the weapon being jettisoned, looking at the referance material, also the notes on how these things where fittd as kits I doudt that the combat version could be discarded as the weapon was bolted to the aircraft and studying all the documentation I have can not find any instructions for jettison, this includes the orignal pilots notes and handbooks.Copies of the original aircraft notes are availabe on the net, I will see if I can come up with a address for you.
Hope this helps and keeps an interesting thread going

S
pilot pimpf

TX-Gunslinger
11-27-2004, 07:42 AM
Hey Carbonfreeze!

Yes sir! If you get the timing right, and becoming used to the relative motion you can do stuff like that. I've gotten Il2's, several P-47's and a Pe-8 going straight up once.

Some head on.

By the way, I've been to Shemya. Was stationed on Adak island for two years in the early-mid 80's. Great sig.

Pilotpimpf - I'll have more later. Rounding up webspace for some images, trying to get my UDPGraph working for some final testing and then we should be good to go.

These weapons were VERY hard to use correctly, and the sim proves this out. If you go to the trouble to strap them on, then your performance decreases in the first place, if you miss, they did'nt do you any good. That's why I have tried to develop reliable methods of employment. I think that the 110's, 210's and 410's kept these weapons around longer than Jagdgeschwader units. I need to look this up. Two of the biggest days for rockets were during the Schwiefurts raids when over 120 U.S. bombers were destroyed (both raids together).

To tell you the truth. I spent about 5 or 6 months, before I joined TX, obsessed with them. I would use these online most of the time, and spent way too much time testing them offline. This worked to the detriment of my gunnery development (I felt at that time like I had picked the wrong handle, for Gunslinger was much more of a RocketThrower in those days). Anyway, I had put the rockets away for the last 7 months or so, as the bomber guys had'nt been around much (particularly in the locked cockpit servers that I frequent nowdays) and I really needed to develop my gunnery. With the new bomber cockpits however, and more on the way, I'm dusting of the old WGfr 21's again. They work really, really well, if there are alot of bombers flying, particularly if they are trying to keep formation. They don't work as well, unless you are as good as Carbonfreeze, against highly manuvering bombers (read bombers flying like fighters).

Now you can get around difficult targets by closing past your firing point and going in for a point-blank shot. The aiming point then is right at the top of the Revi, across the very edge of the "glass", lined up at the bottom of his propeller blades when he's diving steeply and at the top of them when he's climbing, but you have to be real close.

Later