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Goat_of_Vermund
02-26-2019, 09:50 AM
If a mod reads this, I want to ask a question first: do all heroes matter the same? I mean, a posterboy/girl like warden, a popular dlc hero like black prior, a community favourite like lb, or an unpopular og hero like pk matters the same? Does it affect how much effort do you put in during reworks?

Second, just a reminder: pk is absolutely the weakest in all game mode for all roles right now, her only defining strenght, speed, is quite avarage among assassins. Her range is terrible, mobility is meh, mixups are predictable, damage is horrible, openers are nonexistent, feats are situational. Not even omnidirection 30 damage heavy openers could raise her from where she is. She needs buffs the most.

For people saying get in the line: if you receive two pieces of rice instead of a full meal you waited for so long, you wouldn't give a damn about the line.

nufrancis
02-26-2019, 10:34 AM
and she used to be top tier hero in Y1... lmao

Ara also in very bad spot since last year.

But I can understand. Balancing is not an easy issue. The job they did to Kensei and Conqueror was fantastic. Adding new animation also takes time.

I believe Ubi can solve this

Siegfried-Z
02-26-2019, 11:26 AM
PK need some buff for sure. But she is not the worst. Glad and Nobu are on the same bad spot.

There is only 1 thing i disagree about what you say about her and i dont understand why many people said that Btw, her dmg arent trash at all.
Only her dagger feint does too little dmg.
But her lights are average, her zone dmg is ok considering the speed and the recent stam buff, her heavies does more dmg than almost all others assassins with the bleed, her dodge attack has the highest dmg of the game, she does a lot of dmg on a GB. No, her dmg are fine.


But of course next to that, she has a poor range, highly punishable dodge attack and predictable mix up.

Herbstlicht
02-26-2019, 12:19 PM
I think assassins will remain relatively weak in the team environment and the more far reaching,sweeping attackers we get, the likelier this trend will continue. In duel though ... well, I am sure we will see her rise a few ranks in the next state of balance update. Not saying she is fine, guess some slight adjustments are still in order. However, I feel Ubis pace on fixing did slow down. Or I am just angry that Nobushi seems like completely forgotten. Actually hardly touching the game anymore with not even some changes for her on the horizon.

Siegfried-Z
02-26-2019, 04:29 PM
I think assassins will remain relatively weak in the team environment and the more far reaching,sweeping attackers we get, the likelier this trend will continue. In duel though ... well, I am sure we will see her rise a few ranks in the next state of balance update. Not saying she is fine, guess some slight adjustments are still in order. However, I feel Ubis pace on fixing did slow down. Or I am just angry that Nobushi seems like completely forgotten. Actually hardly touching the game anymore with not even some changes for her on the horizon.

To me Nobu should be the main priority for the next reworks in S3y3 with Glad in 2nd and i would say cent/Musha in 3rd. Fingers cross

Goat_of_Vermund
02-26-2019, 04:40 PM
I always found nobushi weak, but this optionselect hidden stance thing makes her strong in good hands, according to good players. Aramusha and cent are weak of course, though they both have fairly good damage. Glad is okay, safe for his reflexguard and revenge feed on punches. I really think pk is weaker than any of them.
And her damage is not good, all punishes are under avarage, her heavies deal low chip damage, her attacks barely land. Compared to shaman, orochi, berserker, nuxia or shinobi damage, she is not fine. The ones she beats in damage are glad, conq and valk, and they all have great access to inblockables.

EvoX.
02-26-2019, 06:07 PM
Aramusha is the weakest hero in the game, currently. There's no debate about that. Once Season 10 hits, Centurion will be the second worst.

Imagine that, two DLC characters being the very bottom of the barrel.


To me Nobu should be the main priority for the next reworks in S3y3 with Glad in 2nd and i would say cent/Musha in 3rd. Fingers cross

Nobushi? No. S-tier in Brawls and Dominion, very difficult to overcome defense in 1v1, despite being unable to attack. She's far from being a main priority.

Goat_of_Vermund
02-26-2019, 06:15 PM
Isn't aramusha the number 1 in official data in 4v4? And I think he is weak, but he has some of the strongest parry punishes with semi-viable offense and a situationally strong fullblock. He is nowhere near the weakests.

Lotus.Sia
02-26-2019, 07:42 PM
Just Backdodge

Vendelkin
02-26-2019, 07:50 PM
Just Backdodge

Ara is very strong in anti ganks and with his feats. In duel an ara player has to have an immense skill lvl and control to overcom other good players. Especially those that repeatedly back dodge and or roll away because of the way his game works.

So he isnt super weak, but he has a devastating flaw to his main kit.

Additionally his anti bash game isnt great and he has a built in vulnerablity to both bashes and gb with any feints into them because of his BB.

Despite all this tho and despite him being my main i personally would like to see changes to Nobu at least first and a small tweak to shugoki to give him a chase down(forward dash heavy or light is all he needs to be complete) but many might disagree with me on the shugoki thing. I just get so tired of seeing people just dance in front of me cause they know i cant catch them in 4v4 modes.

Peacekeeper i might still personally put in line before him for a further look, but i really am not sure what she actially needs or how theyd change her for the positive. She actually suffers very similarily to aramusha in that her gbs are predictably going to come out and guarding top negates a fair portion of her combo mix up power.
What she has that ara doesnt is decent dodging and can soft feint into all those things. Ara tho has BB that she does not have and potential infinite combo game with less predictable but more difficult to pull off soft feints into lights. Both of them sometimes have range issues.

Ara has to hardfeint all his gbs still and hard feinting into dodge doesnt give us anything.

Siegfried-Z
02-26-2019, 09:05 PM
Nobushi? No. S-tier in Brawls and Dominion, very difficult to overcome defense in 1v1, despite being unable to attack. She's far from being a main priority.

Only in the Setmyx world. Saying Nobu is S tier is as far as the reality as possible.

If she is not the next priority then i dont know who is it?
She should have gotten a real rework before Raider btw in my opinion.

Knight_Raime
02-26-2019, 09:22 PM
Only in the Setmyx world. Saying Nobu is S tier is as far as the reality as possible.

If she is not the next priority then i dont know who is it?
She should have gotten a real rework before Raider btw in my opinion.

If we're not considering hero's based on the most optimal way played by players of high skill then what are we basing our answers on?
Not saying Nobushi shouldn't be looked at. But the devs in their own words have avoided addressing Raider (till next season) because Raider was considered a top tier pick in breach by good high tier players.

EvoX.
02-26-2019, 11:54 PM
Only in the Setmyx world. Saying Nobu is S tier is as far as the reality as possible.

Uhh, no. We're not even talking about the ridiculous health lead/time out stuff that nobody does but Setmyx envisions. In 2's and 4's, Nobushi has massive range, good bleed punishes on opponent whiffs/recoveries as a ganker which also set up a Shaman pounce, great and wide-arced zone, very safe sidewinders for chip and setting up a play on block, very strong mid presense, very diffiuclt to punish since she's one of the two recovery cancelers in the game, the only other being JJ (another S-tier, fancy that), also making her a good staller.

So yeah, easy S-tier. Definitely not a top priority, as she shouldn't be. When heroes that universally suck in every single gamemode finally get improved, only then can Nobushi get something as a duelist.

Ubiflowessence
02-27-2019, 12:57 AM
To answer your question OP, each hero matters to the devs; however, each players experience with each hero is different and when it comes to balancing, its something the team is always looking into.

From my personal experience when it comes to heroes like Shugoki, Raider and some of the Wu Lin I'm a beast, but when it comes to other certain heroes I get stomped haha.

Right now, we're currently gathering questions for Stefan on the next Warrior's Den in terms of fight topics also! :)

Siegfried-Z
02-27-2019, 01:43 AM
If we're not considering hero's based on the most optimal way played by players of high skill then what are we basing our answers on?
Not saying Nobushi shouldn't be looked at. But the devs in their own words have avoided addressing Raider (till next season) because Raider was considered a top tier pick in breach by good high tier players.

You may have noticed it already but i am not a fan of the "only listen the top 0.1% players" in order To make some change for all others.
I am not saying the game should be balance arround beginners or average players but arround Decent players.
Even among Decent players (from Plat/diam.. maybe diam only), it is pretty well known Nobushi is weak.
To me the overall feedback from the decent playerbase is more important than some tier list made by some very few guys which spend a huge amount of time into FH and plays on PC.


Uhh, no. We're not even talking about the ridiculous health lead/time out stuff that nobody does but Setmyx envisions. In 2's and 4's, Nobushi has massive range, good bleed punishes on opponent whiffs/recoveries as a ganker which also set up a Shaman pounce, great and wide-arced zone, very safe sidewinders for chip and setting up a play on block, very strong mid presense, very diffiuclt to punish since she's one of the two recovery cancelers in the game, the only other being JJ (another S-tier, fancy that), also making her a good staller.

So yeah, easy S-tier. Definitely not a top priority, as she shouldn't be. When heroes that universally suck in every single gamemode finally get improved, only then can Nobushi get something as a duelist.

Well in everything you talk about her she is not the best.
Maybe only S tier at cleaning minions, then ok.
S tier are Zerk, Conq, BP, Warden etc .. Nobu is far from their efficiency untill the Nobu player is 2 times better than the others above.

Her strenghts : Good dmg, decent range (but no aoe) and an usefull hidden stance in some situations.

Her weaknesses :
-No offense. Any lights are parried. And in the the current state of FH with the overall offense being improved.. it is enough To put her in a bad spot.
-Heavies are telegraphed.
-Dodge into lights are free parry. Dodge heavy are correct but almost doesn't dodge anything.
-Her bash is so easy to avoid on reaction.
-Her Zone is correct, nothing spécial.
-Hidden Stance requires a Huge amount of stam.

Now, she doesn't have any UB, No HA, No Softfeint, No 400ms mooves, No superior block..

I've never played Nobu (only rep 2 with). I dont really care about her, this is just about To be fair.
You seriously cant say she is strong until you are ok at not attacking and just wait for a Hidden Stance opportunity.
If i seriously try to remember the last time a Nobu player beat me, this is not a Joke it was in the very first days of MF. But my opponent was really really good.

I'm a little bit surprised i have to argue about that tbh.

Knight_Raime
02-27-2019, 02:06 AM
You may have noticed it already but i am not a fan of the "only listen the top 0.1% players" in order To make some change for all others.
I am not saying the game should be balance arround beginners or average players but arround Decent players.
Even among Decent players (from Plat/diam.. maybe diam only), it is pretty well known Nobushi is weak.
To me the overall feedback from the decent playerbase is more important than some tier list made by some very few guys which spend a huge amount of time into FH and plays on PC.



Well in everything you talk about her she is not the best.
Maybe only S tier at cleaning minions, then ok.
S tier are Zerk, Conq, BP, Warden etc .. Nobu is far from their efficiency untill the Nobu player is 2 times better than the others above.

Her strenghts : Good dmg, decent range (but no aoe) and an usefull hidden stance in some situations.

Her weaknesses :
-No offense. Any lights are parried. And in the the current state of FH with the overall offense being improved.. it is enough To put her in a bad spot.
-Heavies are telegraphed.
-Dodge into lights are free parry. Dodge heavy are correct but almost doesn't dodge anything.
-Her bash is so easy to avoid on reaction.
-Her Zone is correct, nothing spécial.
-Hidden Stance requires a Huge amount of stam.

Now, she doesn't have any UB, No HA, No Softfeint, No 400ms mooves, No superior block..

I've never played Nobu (only rep 2 with). I dont really care about her, this is just about To be fair.
You seriously cant say she is strong until you are ok at not attacking and just wait for a Hidden Stance opportunity.
If i seriously try to remember the last time a Nobu player beat me, this is not a Joke it was in the very first days of MF. But my opponent was really really good.

I'm a little bit surprised i have to argue about that tbh.

It would be a mistake to balance the game solely around the top 1% of players. That being said a lot of what they speak about is true even outside that tier of play. Nobushi is a top pick in 4's particularly because of her ganking ability, her range/aoe presence, and how strong her hidden stance is. 4's are all about what you can do for a team and not what your kit has individually. So yes on her own she's particularly weak. And her stamina management issues and lack of a viable offense are indeed problems that need addressing. But there is a reason why Nobushi has been a top pick since the game has launched. She's just a great enabler and is in general very safe.

Vendelkin
02-27-2019, 02:10 AM
You may have noticed it already but i am not a fan of the "only listen the top 0.1% players" in order To make some change for all others.
I am not saying the game should be balance arround beginners or average players but arround Decent players.
Even among Decent players (from Plat/diam.. maybe diam only), it is pretty well known Nobushi is weak.
To me the overall feedback from the decent playerbase is more important than some tier list made by some very few guys which spend a huge amount of time into FH and plays on PC.



Well in everything you talk about her she is not the best.
Maybe only S tier at cleaning minions, then ok.
S tier are Zerk, Conq, BP, Warden etc .. Nobu is far from their efficiency untill the Nobu player is 2 times better than the others above.

Her strenghts : Good dmg, decent range (but no aoe) and an usefull hidden stance in some situations.

Her weaknesses :
-No offense. Any lights are parried. And in the the current state of FH with the overall offense being improved.. it is enough To put her in a bad spot.
-Heavies are telegraphed.
-Dodge into lights are free parry. Dodge heavy are correct but almost doesn't dodge anything.
-Her bash is so easy to avoid on reaction.
-Her Zone is correct, nothing spécial.
-Hidden Stance requires a Huge amount of stam.

Now, she doesn't have any UB, No HA, No Softfeint, No 400ms mooves, No superior block..

I've never played Nobu (only rep 2 with). I dont really care about her, this is just about To be fair.
You seriously cant say she is strong until you are ok at not attacking and just wait for a Hidden Stance opportunity.
If i seriously try to remember the last time a Nobu player beat me, this is not a Joke it was in the very first days of MF. But my opponent was really really good.

I'm a little bit surprised i have to argue about that tbh.

Im with sieg here. My nobushi is rep 9 tho. If playing a legitimate game nobu is very weak. Mixup is exc3edingly minimal. No soft feints. Bash is one of the weakest and most predictable bashes in the game. Hidden stance moves are beaten by a variety of combo attacks such that in most situations if the attackers wiffs as you hidden stance they just have to add a light to the combo to stop you from doing anything. Also nobus range game isnt as good as everyone says. If tje step back block happened automatically instead of on weird input thatd be a different story. Her lights are slow. Her heavies are worse. Her damage is relativrly small unless she manages to actually combo flurry when oppenent is bleeding. Stamina is basically non existant after an HS

Also her dodge attacks might as qell be deflects because of how narrow the window is.

Seriously she has sooooo many problems right now. Stemyxs delay with nobu thing is a terrible idea to balance around. Game should be balanced around people that maintain lock on just as the devs said they envisioned, not people that exploit. However exploits should be removed in whatever most minimally game changing way for the regular player base is possible.

EvoX.
02-27-2019, 02:11 AM
I'm a little bit surprised i have to argue about that tbh.

Same, all you've presented is views from a low-average level matches that don't even begin to touch upon optimal Nobushi play in 2's and 4's and what she can do, plus points that seem like you're talking about a constant 1v1, in which case even then you're wrong, because HS heavy counters a lot of offense in the game, in turn making her, as I said, a great staller. If she's unable to kill someone in a 1v1 it'd hardly ever matter since she'll either get backed up or stall enough so the rest of the team focus on other points, a crucial advantage in 4's. All of those ''no UB, no HA'' are irrelevant, this isn't duels. You're being extremely narrow minded if you think that's what makes a character good in anything beyond a duel. 2's and 4's are not about individual kits and abilities, as the names suggest.

Also, lmao at Conq being S-tier in Dominion. I think Arch Duke would get a stroke at that statement.

Link me a 4's tournament without a Nobushi in the winning team. Hell, link me the loser team that doesn't have a Nobushi. She's the most picked 2's character as well, along with JJ. Those tournament players with more experience and knowledge than you seem to exclusively use a supposedly ''far from S-tier as possible'' character a lot, fancy that.

You're wrong.

Siegfried-Z
02-27-2019, 10:53 AM
It would be a mistake to balance the game solely around the top 1% of players. That being said a lot of what they speak about is true even outside that tier of play. Nobushi is a top pick in 4's particularly because of her ganking ability, her range/aoe presence, and how strong her hidden stance is. 4's are all about what you can do for a team and not what your kit has individually. So yes on her own she's particularly weak. And her stamina management issues and lack of a viable offense are indeed problems that need addressing. But there is a reason why Nobushi has been a top pick since the game has launched. She's just a great enabler and is in general very safe.

I can agree she has some ganking potential.
But even on that point, i see many better char.
Maybe her feats and perks are strong supports one.. that with her middle presence.
I just dont really see anything else going for her.

I know 4v4 isnt only about your individual kit. But as much you have going for you as much you can bring for your team as well.


Im with sieg here. My nobushi is rep 9 tho. If playing a legitimate game nobu is very weak. Mixup is exc3edingly minimal. No soft feints. Bash is one of the weakest and most predictable bashes in the game. Hidden stance moves are beaten by a variety of combo attacks such that in most situations if the attackers wiffs as you hidden stance they just have to add a light to the combo to stop you from doing anything. Also nobus range game isnt as good as everyone says. If tje step back block happened automatically instead of on weird input thatd be a different story. Her lights are slow. Her heavies are worse. Her damage is relativrly small unless she manages to actually combo flurry when oppenent is bleeding. Stamina is basically non existant after an HS

Also her dodge attacks might as qell be deflects because of how narrow the window is.

Seriously she has sooooo many problems right now. Stemyxs delay with nobu thing is a terrible idea to balance around. Game should be balanced around people that maintain lock on just as the devs said they envisioned, not people that exploit. However exploits should be removed in whatever most minimally game changing way for the regular player base is possible.

And this is the exact same feedback from a lot of rep60 Nobu main..
It remember me when Valk main use to say "Feels Valk man" because of how weak she was.


Same, all you've presented is views from a low-average level matches that don't even begin to touch upon optimal Nobushi play in 2's and 4's and what she can do, plus points that seem like you're talking about a constant 1v1, in which case even then you're wrong, because HS heavy counters a lot of offense in the game, in turn making her, as I said, a great staller. If she's unable to kill someone in a 1v1 it'd hardly ever matter since she'll either get backed up or stall enough so the rest of the team focus on other points, a crucial advantage in 4's. All of those ''no UB, no HA'' are irrelevant, this isn't duels. You're being extremely narrow minded if you think that's what makes a character good in anything beyond a duel. 2's and 4's are not about individual kits and abilities, as the names suggest.

Also, lmao at Conq being S-tier in Dominion. I think Arch Duke would get a stroke at that statement.

Link me a 4's tournament without a Nobushi in the winning team. Hell, link me the loser team that doesn't have a Nobushi. She's the most picked 2's character as well, along with JJ. Those tournament players with more experience and knowledge than you seem to exclusively use a supposedly ''far from S-tier as possible'' character a lot, fancy that.

You're wrong.

So youre also saying Nobu is a great duelist ? Maybe you're already playing the Y3 S3 version. .
You're wrong To say the issues i talk about for her are only at low level. Nobu Offense isnt punish at low level because people at this bracket are not able to consistently parry Her, they have troubles with Her zone and dont know how to deal with Her Hidden Stance.
These issues begin for her at average level and are terrible for her at decent level.

I am a 4v4 only player. I dont even talk about duel.

HS didn't counter all mix up in the game. This was a true statement a long ago. It works on some situational mix up and allow Nobu To escape the pressure sometimes but it also doesn't work against some others or just can be nullify by some chain as Vendelkin said. And it can be bait too.

The advantages you talk about for her such as Gank only work if the opposite team mates are bad enough To spend 1min at 3v1 against her.

UB, HA etc arent a duel only strengh. These are the bread and butter in 4v4 as it allow To force reaction in gank or to not being interupt during some brawls where you can easily get aoe hits. JJ would not be the best 4v4 Char without the huge amount of Ha and UB he got.

Then explain me why Conq wouldn't be s tier in dom?
The guy is amazing in anti gank, probably the hardest char to gank with JJ.
He is also very good if he has to 1v1.
He is a fast middle cleaner.
He is only not good at ganking because he feed revenge.
Sure, Conq is not the best in 4v4 at doing lots of kill. But he is one.of the best at not being killed.
I am very fine to discuss about it with Arch. I dont have anything agaisnt him. But i think he already have enough Call out with champ.

I dont pay attention to Tournaments.

PS: OP i am sorry for your PK thread which became a Nobu one ! But PK needs love ubi ^^

Knight_Raime
02-27-2019, 06:53 PM
Im with sieg here. My nobushi is rep 9 tho. If playing a legitimate game nobu is very weak. Mixup is exc3edingly minimal. No soft feints. Bash is one of the weakest and most predictable bashes in the game. Hidden stance moves are beaten by a variety of combo attacks such that in most situations if the attackers wiffs as you hidden stance they just have to add a light to the combo to stop you from doing anything. Also nobus range game isnt as good as everyone says. If tje step back block happened automatically instead of on weird input thatd be a different story. Her lights are slow. Her heavies are worse. Her damage is relativrly small unless she manages to actually combo flurry when oppenent is bleeding. Stamina is basically non existant after an HS

Also her dodge attacks might as qell be deflects because of how narrow the window is.

Seriously she has sooooo many problems right now. Stemyxs delay with nobu thing is a terrible idea to balance around. Game should be balanced around people that maintain lock on just as the devs said they envisioned, not people that exploit. However exploits should be removed in whatever most minimally game changing way for the regular player base is possible.

Sounds like you and Sig just don't know how to play Nobushi. I'd suggest you both go watch a guy called "Alernakin" on youtube. He's a top tier player and pretty much known as the best Nobushi that still plays the game.

But to put it simply you guys are constantly thinking of attacking with her. That's not really the case. She usually waits for an ally to either be the aggressor or is about to be punished. As she'll either contribute to the damage if ally stuns them or poke the person trying to punish their friend. She's able to safely do the poke in both situations because she can option select a parry attempt by hidden stancing the light from neutral. Occasionally she'll use the back light poke when it's safe to use to get bleeding going for way of the shark. to do chunky damage.

For instance if she lands the poke and then option selects a parry attempt with hidden stance she can GB and do a top heavy for some pretty high damage. Beyond those situations though she really only attacks in two other situations. When on minion point using constant chained unlocked dash heavies. Or if she's in a team fight. doing unlocked/target swapped dash heavies/zone cancels.

Her kick is rarely used. It's her most reliable punish from hidden stance after dodging something but in 4's it's mainly used as a target swap attack during a team fight or gank to setup an allies damage. You can mix up the timing of your kick though. as the kick from a light comes out at a different time versus a kick that comes after a dodge heavy. Hidden stance is largely safe from most mix ups because you can dodge out of it. Meaning if you hidden stance a comboed attack (for whatever reason) you can immediately dodge to avoid a follow up (unless it's like a 400ms attack.) On top of this she is capable of canceling her recoveries of most attacks with a dodge that and due to having one of the longest general ranges in the game (next to people like kensei and JJ) she's really hard to punish if you're not in her face. And trying to sprint after a nobushi playing at her edge range is a great way to get poked.

Finally her attacks out of hidden stance again are really just used in junction with an ally. Hidden stance heavy on block guarantees a kick. So you'd force a situation with your ally where the person is blocking a lot. and then do hidden stance heavy. Hidden stance light is usually used when the person is dealing with another individual. You would use it if the person is attempting to punish someone, in the middle of punishing someone, or just feinted an attack. You'd do this to do a bit of extra damage on top of getting a bleed proc. But generally speaking back light is easier to do for setting up bleed for damage.

Her back dodge on block is really only used if nobushi is already trying to disengage by running away. Other than that it's used sparringly in a 1v1 situation if she can't safely disengage with a roll. That way she's maintaining distance so she can edge the person out if they try to chase her. It's generally not a good move. Lots of things track it.

Vendelkin
02-28-2019, 01:40 AM
Evo/Raime I know all that tech. Im not some low level scrub with any of my heroes. Your post(s) illustrates exactly the problem that needs to be changed. I dont deny she has use. I dont deny she can perform very well with a competent and communicative team.

But you (raime) even say that she shouldnt attack. Thats an issue. From the devs perspective. From my perspective. From duel perspective. From moments of 1v1. You also talk about how she delays things. Again thats a problem im not asking for a solid buff only rework for her, and certainly i want her to maintain her utility in 4s to a certain extent, but her play is not satisfying and also is kinda exploit like when it comes to things like option selects and delaying. I know she can be great. But she needs a rework both because of how cheap she CAN be AND how WEAK she can be at times.

Im not going to continue this discussion for 5 reasons. 1 Weve hijacked the thread
2 blatantly state we are wrong without communicating to us why, instead you provide other information that further your points (which is useful information dont get me wrong) 3 you seem to assume we dont know things and are "average low tier players" ive been at diamond before thank you very much. 4 you write normally from a pc perspective while i play on console exclusively.

And 5 we just obviously have different perspectives of where balance should stem from. You seem (maybe) to like the idea of maintaining option selects, unlock tech, slippy tech(extreme probably not true example in your case), delay game, and the 1% as part of the experience. I fundamentally want all of these things impact on gameplay to be reduced. Tactics do have their place in 4v4. But exploits do not.

IMO as a composite of all things weak or not (variable for situations) nobushi is the hero singularily most in need of a rework. With very high end tech, things some consider exploits , and already refined skills she is impossible to enjoy playing. I either feel like a jerk when i play her troll tourney style. Or i feel like i cant do shiz.

Goat_of_Vermund
02-28-2019, 06:54 AM
Np, I think I already have my answer, you can discuss nobu freely here. : ) I would try to help out, but I don't understand her kit well enough for that.

Faithly88
02-28-2019, 10:59 AM
most of the assassin characters in this game feel trash in comparison to some of the vanguard and heavy characters which IMO get a much easier ride with similar damage, speed with added damage reduction.....

PK Orochi Nuxia are literally trash picks.... you have to play your socks off constantly to do well.... they all lack an opener / unblockable Shaman and beserker have utility.

They need to do something for assassins soon you can see if when your playing 4 v 4s that it is not a popular pick as they have been let down....

I play orochi and it's so frustrating later game players just turtling until they manage a parry (which they obviously will) or just changing there target to someone else and blocking me with ease.

This is why the release of BP is seriously annoying the since the character has so much utility and you leave other characters in the trash.

IF there was an option to donate (and everyone would get the new rework not just those who paid cause pay to win is bad) to get characters reworked or looked into I would honestly do that even though we shouldn't have to....