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View Full Version : Shouldn't deflects get reworked?



Sir.Nguyen
02-22-2019, 07:43 AM
They look super cool and doing them on my orochi looks badass. This actually got a couple friends to buy and play for honor because it looked super cool. The problem is that deflects are generally hard to pull off and are not as rewarding or forgiving as going for a parry.

The deflect frames should have priority over the iframes on moves that can be deflected which is all moves other than unblockables.. This would make the window for deflecting much wider.

Deflects had some rebalanced damage numbers, but they still aren't as good as parries as parries do stamina damage as well as give a lot more parry frames so you can parry multiple attacks.

I just am making this post in hope that ubisoft gives deflects some love. They are one of the most awesome moves in this game, but they are so rare as to not even existing.

Inzzane_79
02-22-2019, 09:22 AM
A deflect should always interrupt and end a chain! That way we wonīt get hit while in our deflect animation. Getting punished for using something that requires skill is stupid.

Starfighter_104
02-22-2019, 10:49 AM
Definitely! Especially given the new "feature" of having only 33ms for a side deflect instead of 66ms. This is literally a single frame on console, or 2 for most PC players. Or course something that has as much damage potential as deflects should be requiring skill, but as of now, even the most skilled playes struggle hard to pull them off consistently. Thats just not proportional in any way compared to parrys right now. Definitely need a rework.

Tyrjo
02-22-2019, 04:35 PM
How is it that deflects are possible to do on moves that have undodgable tracking? You would think those kind of attacks should be the kryptonite of deflects.

MCBooma16
02-22-2019, 05:04 PM
In some cases, deflects dish out more damage than standard parries.

Valk's deflect initially does 25 damage or so, but also does 15 bleed damage. After that deflect, Valk gets a gauranteed light. (If deflected side attack, top guaranteed, and vice versa) so deflect= 35dmg, and first neutral light= 15 I think. So a 50 damage deflect punish. That's pretty good. A light parry only confirms a 24 damage heavy. You can also choose to GB instead of a Shoulder Pin, which can give you a chance at wall splatting for the 35 damage sweep punish or simply ledging.

We all know Shinobi's. I don't know exact statistics but I think Shinobi also does 45-50 damage for a deflect.

Nuxia gets 40 damage on her deflect. I think a light parry only grants a 35 damage heavy but I could be mistaken.

Orochi can choose between a charged deflect or a guaranteed light deflect.

Always go for the gauranteed one, I don't think the charged one is useful anymore.

PK is just weak all around, but her deflect deals a good 25 damage or so plus bleed, and can be followed up with a zone or light or heavy.

Berserker gets a free GB for a chance to ledge and can get a free heavy.

Some instances deflects are pretty good. Risky, yes, but I'd prefer them over parries, especially in 1v1s. It's cool when you can pull them off in ganks and still come out on top, that's epic.

Starfighter_104
02-22-2019, 05:49 PM
True, they usually give more damage than a parry (you also forgot Glads Stab with 37 bleed Damage, plus a guaranteed dashing light (20 damage) on top), but as of right now theyre almost impossible to achieve with only 33ms. Like I said, thats a single frame for console players.

mann61299
02-22-2019, 07:01 PM
How is it that deflects are possible to do on moves that have undodgable tracking? You would think those kind of attacks should be the kryptonite of deflects.

A deflect technically is more like a parry than a dodge, even though it uses the dodge button. Think of a deflect more like a superior block. Both can work against undodgeable attacks, but neither work against unblockable attacks.

EvoX.
02-22-2019, 09:41 PM
The deflect frames should have priority over the iframes on moves that can be deflected which is all moves other than unblockables.. This would make the window for deflecting much wider.

Creating an algorithm that somehow differentiates types of incoming attacks and changes priority of dodge/i-frames accordingly is probably beyond the devs' ability. Just swapping the two currently would make assassins much worse at dodging bashes, which is something nobody wants.

There is no simple solution to this as of now.


How is it that deflects are possible to do on moves that have undodgable tracking? You would think those kind of attacks should be the kryptonite of deflects.

Why? The opposite makes more sense to me. Undodgable attacks track your dodge which has active deflect frames on it. Because it connects with you sooner if you dodge, than a normal strike if you don't dodge, it basically inserts itself in the deflect frames. The hitbox is active 200ms before it connects in contrast to the 33ms one on a regular strike.

Starfighter_104
02-23-2019, 03:45 PM
I mean we can all agree that the 33ms side deflects are far too difficult to accomplish in comparison to their reward. 66ms war a lot better, still very challenging but not as broken as it is now.

MCBooma16
02-24-2019, 05:27 AM
I mean we can all agree that the 33ms side deflects are far too difficult to accomplish in comparison to their reward. 66ms war a lot better, still very challenging but not as broken as it is now.

I never really complained about the side deflects compared to forward deflects. I mean dodge frame priority is different, since performing a regular dodge attack should be easy to do yet highly punishable. Deflects are the same as parries in terms on timing. You dodge into the attack as soon as the indicator flashes, it's the same concept except you're not pressing one attack button to parry. Deflecting often takes three actions: analog/mouse to move certain direction, dodge button, attack or GB button to perform whatever deflect option your character has.

Side deflects are inherently more strict since deflects are mostly more rewarding, and should be a skillful thing. I'd rather we keep the dodge frame priority the same, because I don't want to see a bunch of amateur assassins getting deflects on me due to it being made easier for them.

Dodge attacks are exactly what they are: You're dodging an attack, and if in a gank you're dodging many attacks, while also performing a counter attack.

Kensei and Tiandi are great examples, although they have slightly different deflect types. They have superior blocks, which is different from the standard assassin deflects in which superior blocks completely end the opponent's chains. Valk, Black Prior, and Conq also have superior block deflects. Kensei's and Tiandi's dodge attacks are really good for anti ganks, because they can cover a lot of ground.

Assassins naturally have dodge attacks. The timings are different because it can make it easier to move around multiple opponents in a gank. A normal side dodge attack can give you the option of avoiding not just the attack coming from the opponent you're locked on to, but, let's say, a Highlander offensive stance unblockable heavy close by as well.

Deflecting in general may give you more attack options. Shaolin, for example, can flow into Qi stance to his 50/50 mixups or he can continue with either a light or heavy and into Qi and so on AFTER a successful deflect, which guarantees a heavy. They're really meant to catch opponents off-guard since they're fast and it takes a moment to recompose after the gaurenteed damage from the deflect plus possible follow-ups.

Deflects are not exactly the same as dodges, either. Dodges move your character almost 90 degrees to the right or left of your opponent. Deflects only move your character about 10-25 degrees, maybe not even that. If I actively wanted to perform a dodge attack, away from the afformentioned Highlander unblockable scenario, and the person I'm locked on to threw a side heavy or something, I could unintentionally perform a deflect and not dodge far enough away from the Highlander unblockable. That's the problem I see with this idea.

Again, there would probably be more unintentional deflects by amateurs, and that would be annoying. Deflecting should be a very deliberate, skillful and highly rewarding action. Deflects can allow more special attack options and shouldn't be something that anybody can do too easily.

All my deflects come from proper reads anyway. If I dodged an attack from some kind of pressure and found myself having deflected an attack, that'd be strange.

LEGENDz_31
02-26-2019, 04:15 PM
Deflects definitely need some love. I find myself parring more and more as a orochi. Hurricane blast seems almost worthless. It is so easy to dodge it is sickening and even with HA it is a huge trade against some characters. Deflect light (wind gust) is the move but I would still rather parry.

Front deflect works and is a proper read. Sides deflect feels like luck. I can read the move perfect and could of parried and still miss the timing on a side deflect way more then I can get it right. There are times where it hits because I am late and just lucky. I donít feel like there is any consistency to the side deflect.

I am fine with it staying the way it is but a successful deflect needs to be guaranteed and stop chains. Parry is guaranteed and is a just all around better option.

LEGENDz_31
02-26-2019, 04:25 PM
Also I would like a bit of utility to orochiís deflect.

Wind gust- eats opponents stamina and applies a small bleed.

Hurricane blast - guaranteed damage, stops chains and acts as a heavy (can execute from it)

Col.Bullet
02-26-2019, 09:59 PM
Also I would like a bit of utility to orochiís deflect.

Wind gust- eats opponents stamina and applies a small bleed.

Hurricane blast - guaranteed damage, stops chains and acts as a heavy (can execute from it)
Interesting idea. Do note however, that Hurricane Blast can be defended against, making it a no-go.
Instead, all deflects should have HA, break it on the opponent, end their chains and be fast enough to be guaranteed. There also needs to be a normalization of the timeframes, so that it can be pulled of consistently. It's direct counter would still be GB vulnerability on dodge.

LEGENDz_31
02-27-2019, 06:24 PM
I agree, in my suggestion, hurricane blast would have to be guaranteed. Right now itís poo poo.

I just never got why they gave a guy, who is a counter attacker, two deflects and make them so similar to each other. They really miss the ball on this. Deflect should have a lot more strategy involved as it is one of the most interesting mechanics in the game and they kinda missed on it. In my opinion really all Assassin should have two options off of deflect and hybrids one option. Right now deflect is slowly go away to better options.