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View Full Version : Why was "deus vult" removed from the knights chant in breach?



LionsFang78
02-15-2019, 01:48 PM
But Vikings still have, "Crush Christ" in their chant? Don't get me wrong, I don't really care if it's in the Vikings chant or not, I just don't understand why the knights saying, "God wills it" needed to be cut from the game while "Crush Christ" can stay. Perhaps the translations I read are wrong?

Illyrian_King
02-15-2019, 02:12 PM
I am glad that they removed it. They should definitely also remove that phrase from the Viking chant too.

Such stuff shouldn't be in a video game, and I am really not an SJW by any means ...

LionsFang78
02-15-2019, 02:23 PM
Yeah I don't think that's an sjw opinion to have, it seems reasonable to me. I'm just wondering why one had to go while the other could stay.

I mean deus vult may have historical ties to the crusades and whatnot, but it's always used as a joke nowadays and doesn't necessarily need to be connected to Christianity in the context of For Honor. "God wills it" could be referring to whatever God the knights worship in the game, they're just speaking Latin after all

But Vikings saying "crush Christ" is perfectly fine? Not sure if that has any place in a fictional video game that's not historically based. I don't care at the end of the day whether or not it stays, but in my opinion if deus vult can't exist then this probably shouldn't either, that's just being consistent

I'd also like to add that's it's strange that the Vikings will chant this while raiding the Samurai, seems out of place lol

EvoX.
02-15-2019, 11:28 PM
It isn't removed.

chukblok
02-16-2019, 04:34 AM
I sense a thread locking...depending on what way this goes....

Tyrjo
02-16-2019, 02:10 PM
Some people are so touchy. It's a video game, not politics.

ChampionRuby50g
02-16-2019, 03:42 PM
Some people are so touchy. It's a video game, not politics.

I’m agreeing with you a lot lately ahaha. Don’t see how it’s got anything to do with politics at all what fictional minions are chanting when they attack a fictional castle in a fictional world that is completely different to our current time line.

I think it’s cool that those chants say that, and I didn’t know what the translations where until now. It’s also a part of history, Vikings didn’t like Christians and their religion in the early days before a lot of them ended up converting to Christianity at the end of the Viking Era. “God wills it” is a battle cry too, who cares?

Pincopallino097
02-16-2019, 06:49 PM
But Vikings still have, "Crush Christ" in their chant? Don't get me wrong, I don't really care if it's in the Vikings chant or not, I just don't understand why the knights saying, "God wills it" needed to be cut from the game while "Crush Christ" can stay. Perhaps the translations I read are wrong?

If it got removed for real, I agree with you, the viking chant should also be modifieda s well or the whole thing doesn't make sense

Illyrian_King
02-16-2019, 08:07 PM
Some people are so touchy. It's a video game, not politics.

Religious things are literally sacred to some people, so this is a bit different from talking bad about something like your/my favourite football team for example ...

I was glad about the removal, since that "Deus Vult" lead into completely blunt and unholy bloodshed. While many people really just joke, it feeds some Christian fanatics to pick on Muslims.

Other hand it has to be equal, and also that disgusting line from the Viking chant should be replaced with something Christians are okay with.

Everybody should be happy and that's the purpose of a game.

Tyrjo
02-16-2019, 08:58 PM
Religious things are literally sacred to some people, so this is a bit different from talking bad about something like your/my favourite football team for example ...

I was glad about the removal, since that "Deus Vult" lead into completely blunt and unholy bloodshed. While many people really just joke, it feeds some Christian fanatics to pick on Muslims.

Other hand it has to be equal, and also that disgusting line from the Viking chant should be replaced with something Christians are okay with.

Everybody should be happy and that's the purpose of a game.

Well, you can't tip toe around whats sacred to people. In a world like that you can't do anything. Everything is "sacred" to someone.

Illyrian_King
02-16-2019, 09:35 PM
Well, you can't tip toe around whats sacred to people. In a world like that you can't do anything. Everything is "sacred" to someone.

No not really ... it is wrong in place.

ChampionRuby50g
02-16-2019, 09:44 PM
Religious things are literally sacred to some people, so this is a bit different from talking bad about something like your/my favourite football team for example ...

I was glad about the removal, since that "Deus Vult" lead into completely blunt and unholy bloodshed. While many people really just joke, it feeds some Christian fanatics to pick on Muslims.

Other hand it has to be equal, and also that disgusting line from the Viking chant should be replaced with something Christians are okay with.

Everybody should be happy and that's the purpose of a game.

Ok, for arguments sake say 10 out of 100 people are offended and their feelings get hurt by a chant in a video game. Why should the 90 people who like the chant have to give it up? When did the wants off the very few become more important than the wants of the vast majority? Not everything in the world is sunshine and rainbows.

“Deus Vult” led to bloodshed, and war. So you want to get rid of that saying by sweeping the history under the rug and hiding from it. That’s how history repeats itself, because people will forget what that saying came from.

If Christianity is that important to some people as well, and “that disgusting line” said by a dead civilisation that basically got killed out by Christians, perhaps a bloody, violent game all about killing people isn’t the game for them to be playing. Because killing people in a bloody way isn’t exactly “loving thy neighbour as you love yourself”, is it?

MuscleTech12018
02-16-2019, 09:50 PM
Because they want to please the muslims i guess, $$$ related stuff.

Halvtand
02-16-2019, 09:56 PM
Ok, so long story short, "deus vult" was removed from the chant because it should not have been there to begin with. There are many reasons why, pick one or several of them.
As for the "why are the vikings allowed to..."
I'm not convinced.

So let's have a look at this. For Honor is not set in our world, but a fantasy / alternate history world with factions resembling factions from our history. I am fairly certain that the devs at one point or another have expressly stated that religions from our time does not exist in FH. This is one of the reasons why Deus Vult does not belong. It is also the reason why the alleged "crush Christ"-line in the viking chant makes no sense.
I've seen the "translations", the creator of them states that these are not the official lyrics. Furthermore if these lines are correct I personally have a problem with the chanter as he does not pronounce some words as they are written in the "translation". I could go into more detail, and have done so in a discord chat with friends about it, but with my (limited) linguistic understanding of Icelandic and the background for the chants (FH's lore) I find it unlikely that the chanter is indeed saying "cruch Christ". My own theory as it stands now, based on my knowledge as a native and speaker of other Scandinavian languages with a keen interest in etymology is that the particular line means something along the lines of "pulverise, crush" instead, which would be a nice callback to the old Galdr-curses that ye olde Scandis were so fond of.
I would like to hear from an actual Icelander though as such a person could probably shed a lot of light on the situation.

Illyrian_King
02-16-2019, 10:48 PM
Ok, for arguments sake say 10 out of 100 people are offended and their feelings get hurt by a chant in a video game. Why should the 90 people who like the chant have to give it up? When did the wants off the very few become more important than the wants of the vast majority? Not everything in the world is sunshine and rainbows.

“Deus Vult” led to bloodshed, and war. So you want to get rid of that saying by sweeping the history under the rug and hiding from it. That’s how history repeats itself, because people will forget what that saying came from.

If Christianity is that important to some people as well, and “that disgusting line” said by a dead civilisation that basically got killed out by Christians, perhaps a bloody, violent game all about killing people isn’t the game for them to be playing. Because killing people in a bloody way isn’t exactly “loving thy neighbour as you love yourself”, is it?

Okay very vulgar counter example and 100% not meant otwards you:

Lets say I trashtalk somebody's mom and 9 people find it funny, but 1 person really takes it to heart. Would you say, that it's my right to say it where he can hear it?

For religious people it's not much different.

Arekonator
02-16-2019, 11:48 PM
Yes, it is. You might make yourself look like giant ****** in the process, but you absolutely have right to say that.
Religious people also kill people over cartoons, but lets not go there.

ChampionRuby50g
02-16-2019, 11:53 PM
Okay very vulgar counter example and 100% not meant otwards you:

Lets say I trashtalk somebody's mom and 9 people find it funny, but 1 person really takes it to heart. Would you say, that it's my right to say it where he can hear it?

For religious people it's not much different.

Well I’m a firm believer in freedom of speech, so yes, it is within your right to say what you want, no matter whose around to hear it. There may be consequences such as me bashing you for insulting my dear mother, and you’ll probably be viewed as an @sshole, but it’s still your right to say as you please.

There’s the old saying, “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.”

Illyrian_King
02-17-2019, 12:03 AM
Well I’m a firm believer in freedom of speech, so yes, it is within your right to say what you want, no matter whose around to hear it. There may be consequences such as me bashing you for insulting my dear mother, and you’ll probably be viewed as an @sshole, but it’s still your right to say as you please.

There’s the old saying, “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me.”

This is wrong. If I insult anybody publicly I can be sued for that and even be send to jail. So common laws says "no" ... which stands above a proverb undeniably.

Also that you are for freedom of speech is a fine thing. I support that too. But this "freedom" of one person ends, where you start limiting the freedom of others. Just to tell you in what you believe, following your statement. So no there is no right to say insults publicly. No laws about that on your private properties or anywhere, where certain people can hear you, that might be annoyed. That's law. Do you believe in law?

Arekonator
02-17-2019, 12:13 AM
"Law bans you from saying anything that someone might not like"
Fortunatelly, thats not the case, unless you are from UK where you can get arrested for misgendering someone.

Illyrian_King
02-17-2019, 12:46 AM
"Law bans you from saying anything that someone might not like"
Fortunatelly, thats not the case, unless you are from UK where you can get arrested for misgendering someone.

No, I am living in Austria. Here and in every "proper" democratic country it is prohibited to insult anybody openly. This goes for ethnics, cultures, religions, direct insults, etc.

You get caught on camera or anybody witnesses such a case --> you get condemned

It's that easy. There is no "freedom of speech" to spit people in the face. You have the right of having your opinion and sharing it if you get asked or where nobody accuses you for speaking it out loud.

ChampionRuby50g
02-17-2019, 12:54 AM
This is wrong. If I insult anybody publicly I can be sued for that and even be send to jail. So common laws says "no" ... which stands above a proverb undeniably.

Also that you are for freedom of speech is a fine thing. I support that too. But this "freedom" of one person ends, where you start limiting the freedom of others. Just to tell you in what you believe, following your statement. So no there is no right to say insults publicly. No laws about that on your private properties or anywhere, where certain people can hear you, that might be annoyed. That's law. Do you believe in law?

But getting jailed over something one has said literally goes against freedom of speech. If that is a law in some countries, it's bloody stupid. I do believe in the law, but the law also stated that slaves were legal, a law here in Australia not that long ago sadly classed our indigenous population as flora and fauna. So, in the eyes of the law, these people aren't humans. They are animals. Do you believe that is right, and just because that's what the law is and must be followed? I don't believe that I should be jailed for failing to call someone by their preferred pronoun. Science and biology clearly states that there is only two genders. So what do you follow, the hundreds of years of research and basic human biology, or someone who is confused and unsure of who they are?Nowadays if you don't follow what has been taught for thousands of years, that men are men and women are women, you can go to jail. Is that right, and just?

It's not limiting to hear a chant in a video game which may offend you, when there are steps you can take to avoid it. Turn the volume down, mute the volume, don't play if it upsets one that much.

Illyrian_King
02-17-2019, 01:21 AM
But getting jailed over something one has said literally goes against freedom of speech. If that is a law in some countries, it's bloody stupid. I do believe in the law, but the law also stated that slaves were legal, a law here in Australia not that long ago sadly classed our indigenous population as flora and fauna. So, in the eyes of the law, these people aren't humans. They are animals. Do you believe that is right, and just because that's what the law is and must be followed? I don't believe that I should be jailed for failing to call someone by their preferred pronoun. Science and biology clearly states that there is only two genders. So what do you follow, the hundreds of years of research and basic human biology, or someone who is confused and unsure of who they are?Nowadays if you don't follow what has been taught for thousands of years, that men are men and women are women, you can go to jail. Is that right, and just?

It's not limiting to hear a chant in a video game which may offend you, when there are steps you can take to avoid it. Turn the volume down, mute the volume, don't play if it upsets one that much.

There is no freedom of speech, when it comes to insulting people. Guess that's plain common sense. The term for the opposite is called "anti-social" ... there is even a word for it.

Mate normally I enjoy reading your posts but this is straight wtf. I am talking about modern law of our actual time. I also never claimed, that biology was wrong claiming only 2 genders to exist ^^
This has purely nothing to do with the topic.

Let me explain it to you more in detail: You are not forbidden to claim, that there are 2 genders (I do that too). But it depends on how you spell it. Do you involve swearing words, do say it sarcastic or in an harassing way, do you literally mock anybody?

The "disgusting line" from the Viking chant is an straight out insult, and that's why Ubi would do good in removing it. The "Deus Vult" line is acutally used in real life by fanatics like KKK members have their own similar lines. This doesn't came out of the sky.

By removing such stuff no Atheist would get harmed, and no Christian or Muslim would feel insulted anymore.
Win-Win

UbiInsulin
02-17-2019, 01:44 AM
Closing this thread as it's going well beyond the scope of For Honor.